DACA deal??

RT is reporting that the White house is offering Congress that it will continue the DACA program in return for funding for The Wall. To the tune of some B$US30 or thereabouts.

https://www.rt.com/usa/415127-trump-wall-proposal-daca/

RT is one of those sites which all us red-blooded sheeples ain't supposed to read, so expect interference.

I am not saying I like this particular deal, but I do like the idea that if you want something, like continued residence for 800,000 members of your particular ethnic community, you need to be prepared to give up something else.

For far too long every faction, including those on the left, wants what it wants for free--because Our Issue is a moral imperative, you know. The prime example here is the right to life/pro family movement, which flatly refused to even hear of any sort of compromise, not on the core principles, but on ancillary issues, like liberalized adoption procedures and better support for single parents, for example, or revision of insurance and hospital visit regulations to accommodate gay partnerships, for another, with the result that the pro-lifers lost across the board. All because they would not "make deals with The Devil", so now they get to congratulate themselves on their virtuous intransigence while the rest of us get on with our lives.

About DACA, let me be clear here. I have no problem with persons brought here as children being able to stay with some kind of legalized status. I have a major problem with them then being able to sponsor the in-migration of a hundred or so per each of the relatives with whom they have supposedly had no contact. I also do not believe that every one of the 800,000 or so, assuming for the sake of argument that that figure is even accurate, is a future Rhodes Scholar who will improve our nation. Nor do I believe that the beneficiaries of DACA are all from Latin America. I have thought for years that our immigration policy needs to privilege migrants from our own hemisphere, migrants who can show valid ID documents issued by their home governments and demonstrate competence in Spanish, Portuguese or a recognized indigenous language.

About The Wall, first, we already have one, and second, migration from the south is already slowing down, probably because of increasing aridity and consequent danger of the land passage. Trump's Wall, I think, is a typical Republican publicity stunt/boondoggle handout to Republican big dollar donors. If any administration were ever serious about limiting in-migration, I think the first thing it would do is increase the Coast Guard, maybe by folding some of our navy resources into the CG--and stationing a carrier in the Caribbean--, and the second thing would be to mount a massive investigation and prosecution of ID theft, which could be done under the authority of existing laws. Sorry folks, ID theft is NOT a victimless crime, and, pace the occasional report on Neocon Propaganda Radio, it can affect anyone, not just strung out dopers.

So, while I don't think this particular deal is a good idea, I do like the principle that if you want something you also have to support something I want. Like shut down the MJ plantations on public lands. Or outlaw glyphosate. Or revive the anti-trust suit against Monsanto.

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Big Al's picture

I'd tell Trump to take his wall and shove it up his ass. There are so many things wrong about a wall, and yes I know we already have a partial one, that giving in to this keystone campaign promise of Trump's is unacceptable imo.

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snoopydawg's picture

Most of the immigrants are brought here to work for some damn companies that are too cheap to pay decent wages. Congress is well aware of that, but they won't do anything about it because it's their donors who are doing it. Trump himself is rumored to use immigrants to work at his country clubs including Mar Lago in Florida.

I want to see protection for the Dreamers now that they have made themselves known after Obama signed DACA.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

...arrive in the US. They come across the border like everyone else, and then overstay. Mexico has a net-negative immigration rate in the US for several years running. Almost all the evil we do in the world is based on a crazy distortion. I swear, there's a demon seed from AM hate radio buried in the center of every recent 'government responsibility' or 'military priority' that gets privatized. And, of course, they all have trickle-up government contracts for an obscene amount of money attached to them. So completely corrupt.

If they are going to build the wall, it should be treated as an infrastructure project. You'll be able to see it from the moon.

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Carry a flame and share the light.

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@#

No to daisy chains. Why is it so hard for some to understand that you arriving here does not make me responsible for your extended family back home?

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Mary Bennett

hecate's picture

just weird.

I have a major problem with them then being able to sponsor the in-migration of a hundred or so per each of the relatives with whom they have supposedly had no contact.

When did this happen? Maybe when pilgrims and puritans and such were invading, but it's not going on now. There is no DACA person who has successfully managed a stampede of "a hundred or so per each of the relatives with whom they have supposedly had no contact."

As for:

I do like the idea that if you want something, like continued residence for 800,000 members of your particular ethnic community, you need to be prepared to give up something else.

Why? "Nations" are illusions. They are shit made up, that have only been around about 500 years. Human beings are not illusions, but Real. They can live where they want.

And what does it mean that "a particular ethnic community" has to be "prepared to give up something else"? The proposed trade is the DACA people, in exchange for money to erect the Hairball Wall. Are you saying only "a particular ethnic community" should pay for the Hairball Wall? Or that no one outside "a particular ethnic community" will need to hide under the bed in shame at the construction of a nonsense that's been proven since Hadrian not to work for shit?

Or maybe you think "the 800,000 members of [a] particular ethnic community"—that is, the white people—currently squatting on land they swatted away from the Maidu, should be "prepared to give up something else." Like, say, all of their money.

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@hecate
The wall isn't just a boondoggle. It's an extremely harmful boondoggle. The environmental effects are terrible. It would block the paths of migrating animals.

Where are we going to get that much money? Do we just add it to the deficit, which only matters when we try to help poor or working people? Or should we just take it out of Social Security and Medicare like the Trump-Ryan Tax cuts?

Spending that much money to do harm is no compromise whatsoever.

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hecate's picture

@FuturePassed
the part about the animals is very bad. It "will dramatically disrupt what has been nature’s corridor through North and South America for millions of years now."

Humans are animals, too. Like the other animals, they need room to move.

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@hecate
My essential point is that if you want me to support something you want you need to also get behind something I want. Like GMO labeling for example. Or outright ban on glyphosate. It is called politics. No one gets everything they might want but everyone gets something.

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Mary Bennett

Pluto's Republic's picture

RT is one of those sites which all us red-blooded sheeples ain't supposed to read, so expect interference.

On television, RT is the only news channel that carries regular programming from a worthwhile mix of American journalists 24/7 — from Chris Hedges to Larry King and Lee Camp to Max Keiser. And so many more.

It was most amusing that they were all forced to register as agents of a foreign government, or some nonsense, last month. They all bitched about it on the air that week.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Did the people who you mentioned have to register too? This is nuts if it happened.

I read RT often because they cover issues other sites don't. Al Jazeer is another site that covers our insane foreign policy.

The democrats already said that they were willing to shut down the government over DACA, yet once again they folded. Did Obama do as much as he could for the Dreamers after signing the executive order? I'm betting that democrats fold again when talks come up.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

...we should at least teach them to speak Spanish.

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@Pluto's Republic
I don't care to pay for cable or network TV.

The online RT is frequently interrupted by helpful messages from Google gestapo about how RT is an unsafe site which is about to nuke my computer. Or something of the sort.

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Mary Bennett

Godless's picture

@Pluto's Republic They make RT register as a foreign agent but allow a tax-free AIPAC to spew anti-Palestine/pro-Israel propaganda with abandon with every Washington pol kissing their ring. The Washington elite are even pushing an anti-BDS law to curry favor including all the supposed "progressives" signing on.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

...we'd return Northern Mexico back to the Mexicans — the rightful owners who we fought and murdered to steal it from, quite recently. Their direct ancestors lived on this land continuously for 20,000 years. Once we move the American settlers back East to the colonies where they belong, the DACA and undocumented worker problems will go away with them. A win-win.

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@Pluto's Republic
countries of origin, which I am sure will be overjoyed to have us all back, and give North America back to its' original owners.

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Mary Bennett

yourself to the fact that "we" destroyed all those countries down in Latin America but now we get to say "fuck you, go on back to that hell hole "we" left you?" That's my biggest problem with blaming immigrants for their plight. How in hell does anyone in this country look themselves in the mirror and think that's a good thing? I guess all that talk about human rights was just that, fine, pretty, empty talk. Blah, blah, blah.

As for immigrants having language requirements in their own native tongue, not real sure I get the point of that at all, but I'm sure it must have to do with those who are deemed not educated enough to come live in this wonderful, exceptional country. I would think all the immigrant bashers wanted these people to speak English, then they could stop all their incessant whining about how things must be in two languages and how "unfair" that is to all us great Murkans.

As for those family members, well, I don't know if that mess about 100s of relatives is even real, could be a Faux talking point, sounds like one to me. Maybe an immigration lawyer who actually does that work could confirm that little factoid for you, then again, maybe not. But hey, I get it, it's not "our" responsibility to clean up any messes "we" make across the world, those people just need to pull on them damned bootstraps we gave them and pull themselves out of the hot mess we left them.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

@lizzyh7
Attitudes like that is why the Orange Toupee won and might well win again.

About South America, and American meddling. Maybe you had something to say about that but I never did. What we, as a nation, ought to do is pay reparations to the affected countries, dismantle the CIA--don't forget Carter tried that, and put the instigators on trial for war crimes.

So unless you are willing to see Henry Kissinger put on trial, publicly, not in secret, don't tell me any of this is my fault.

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Mary Bennett