Clinton, the banner choice?

I received a reply to a comment requesting me to repost it as a blog. My response was to a comment advocating voting for Hillary Clinton, then pressuring her to the left. I think my comment was posted late enough in the discussion that many who might have been interested, positively or negatively, did not have the opportunity to read it. Additionally, what seem to be increasing sightings of Bernie, with the encouragement of his surrogates, people I greatly respect, waving the Democratic platform in victory with the enthusiasm of Neville Chamberlain returning from Munich, is leaving an increasingly bitter taste in my mouth. For these reasons I decided to act on the kind suggestion and post my very first blog.

The comment to which I replied accepted, briefly, the full set of reservations about Hillary Clinton expressed here. (I don't know the rules about a blog responding to a comment, so I kept the references vague.) The commenter defined our job as progressives as to keep pushing her left. The commenter believes this pressure can be generated most effectively by first voting for her in November. I don’t see how casting a vote for HRC increases my ability to pressure her to the left. I don’t see how my vote, even though I disagree with her profoundly, can be separated from the votes of people who agree with her enthusiastically. It seems to me that proof of the existence of a sizable block of voters on the left unwilling to support her would give her a great deal more to think about. She may need those votes in 2020 running against a genuine Republican candidate. The least productive course it seems to me is reaffirming her belief that I have nowhere else to go.

In addition to referring to Hillary Clinton as “the banner choice,” the commenter closed with the statement:

Her one saving grace is although she is a hawk who will keep us engaged in wars around the word at least she will not blow it up, there is that!

The statement struck me as remarkably callous. (In response I make a number of references to the commenter's apparent limited concern for casualties that may or may not make sense in a stand alone blog.) We’re talking about a toddler permanently maimed in Gaza by the explosion that left her an orphan. We’re talking about the 500,000 Iraqi children who died as a result of US sanctions that Madeleine Albright called an acceptable price. (If anyone wondered about Ambassador Albright’s familiarity with the ordering of accommodations in hell, look no further.) This is ugly, heart-wrenching stuff people. The casualness with which Hillary Clinton contemplates the use of lethal force on a large scale terrifies me. Her failure to consider the cost in human terms horrifies me. As a result I posted the comment below, slightly edited to stand on its own.

Even if I agreed with your assessment that Hillary Clinton will limit her destruction to brown and yellow skinned people, I would be considerably less sanguine than you are. In fact I don't agree with you.

Hillary Clinton has already declared war on Syria and delivered an ultimatum to Iran; announced her standard for compliance is "distrust and verify;" and loudly proclaimed her intention to use force if Iran fails to measure up. (As far as I can tell Netanyahu has the final call on whether they've measured up.) So much for the people "not like us."

Clinton has also announced plans for a "no fly zone" in Syrian airspace that would order, with no justification in international law, the Russians to stop flying over a country with which they have been had a series of agreements including an agreement establishing a naval base going back into the period where they were the Soviet Union. Clinton’s surrogates indicate she plans to increase lethal aid to the Ukrainian government. Maybe escalation will be limited to a civil war in which thousands of ethnic Ukrainians and thousands of ethnically Russian Ukrainians die. But can you count on it? Are you willing to bet the survival of the planet on it?

The US, significantly as a result of Hillary Clinton's activities as Secretary of State, is pushing Putin in a way that the United States has never pushed a Russian president. The origins of the tension are clear enough. Gorbachev made a huge concession to George H. W. Bush. The Soviets withdrew forces from former Warsaw Pact members. In return the US pledged the eastern boundary of NATO would move from the inter German border to the eastern border of a united Germany and no further.

The Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary were admitted to NATO in 1999. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia were added in 2004. The total was rounded out with Albania and Croatia in 2009. The extent to which Georgia has moved down the path to NATO membership is a subject for debate.

Russia is signaling "no further" in every manner possible short of war. They are engaging in dangerous military maneuvers near US forces, particularly those in and near the Baltic Republics. By their nature these maneuvers increase the risk of accident. The US fits these confrontations into its theme of the horrible dictator Putin.

Donald Trump wears his mental problems on his sleeve. Hillary Clinton's are a bit more subtle. You have to discern them in such things as her reaction to the capture of a head of state who was subsequently beaten, sodomized with a bayonet, and murdered. "We came. We saw. He died." When Hillary Clinton becomes president lots of people are going to die. More of them may be Caucasian than you think.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

bluicebank's picture

I have become increasingly disheartened by the Hillary online community, who appear bent on not accepting that she won, and taking every opportunity to savage anyone who so much as hints at constructive advice.

This is a problem not for me (I will vote Hillary), but for the younger voters in Sanders camp who are going to be harried so unto November. Would it not be better to at least entertain those votes/ideas, people, instead of assuming that progressives are not needed? Would it not be better to accept victory with grace, and move onto Trump? Is that too radical an idea?

up
0 users have voted.

BluIceBank

I'm not sure I follow, so my comment may be off target. I think HRC is working hard to demonstrate she has no need of progressive votes. Every action she's taken indicats she's far more concerned with collecting the votes of Republicans alienated by Trump. I think she's correct, she doesn't need progressive votes this time. That's why I will not vote for her. I hope she sees a substantial number of votes to her left that she may need next time.

Why people who have always supported Hillary and recent converts react so strongly to anything less than what seems to me to be abject surrender is an interesting question. The phenomenon seems to me to be more prevalent among those who moved from Sanders to Clinton. Maybe they feel the traditional zeal we associate with converts? If I knew anything about psychology I might look there. Maybe some feel the need to justify their choice to others who have not gone that route. Maybe they have a sense of being judged or condemned by people who are voting for neither of the 2 major candidates.

Personally, I think progressives need to stick together regardless of the course followed. I do find myself reacting strongly to people trying to persuade me to change my mind.

up
0 users have voted.
tapu dali's picture

are traditional (1950-1964 era) Republicans who are comfortable with a moderate, centre-right Government party and are mightily turned off by the gross excesses of Der Drumpf.

We will never know whether they could have been persuaded to vote for Bernie Sanders as an alternative. I suspect that they would have been sufficiently torn to do so (but I've no proof) to give Sanders a narrow EC victory.

Right now, I suspect that with the abjectly low approvals for both Herr [obey me] Drumpf and Her [trust me!] Excellency, the US will see a record low voter turnout in November.

Which, I suspect, could well result in more than just an upset or two across the electoral spectrum.

up
0 users have voted.

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Raggedy Ann's picture

could give a flip about Sanders supporters. Those Sanders supporters who are afraid of Herr Drumpf will succumb to her heinous. I am a boomer with a GenX daughter and millennial grandkids who are all voting third party. We are of the opinion she does dot deserve our votes and will not get them. She is all about herself and whatever power she can wield. I cannot abide with her now or ever. I hope she will be defeated, soundly.

up
0 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

jwa13's picture

let's not forget that The $hill ALWAYS is in it for the money --

up
0 users have voted.

When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

riverlover's picture

I would also submit that many younger voters I respect, for not toe-ing the Clinton line. They have more to lose than I old enough to be their mother.

Trump is a false flag operation. Hillary is one as well, may she go down in time for a replacement (who Will not earn my vote).

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

The fact that I commented at TOP has exactly what to do with this blog? Re the rest of your comment, I think we agree except that I have no idea how I'm harassing or denigrating anyone.

up
0 users have voted.
Deja's picture

S/he said, "I'll vote for Hillary." (Or something like that.)

I was repulsed as well, but the koolaid is strong and effective, apparently.

Edit: riverlover agrees with you, I believe.

up
0 users have voted.
riverlover's picture

Sorry to sound grumpy. I really try to get along with my friends. Some of them disappoint me now by stating that she's with them, and they don't mean Jill Stein.

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

You didn't sound grumpy. I couldn't follow and wanted to because I enjoy your writing. Please take care of yourself.

up
0 users have voted.

Up until this year, I also bought (increasingly reluctantly) the LOTE line. I don't anymore, and I thank Bernie Sanders for showing me that the corruption and rot in the Democratic party exceeded even my very low opinion of them. Sanders' campaign extinguished my very faint hope that the Democratic party as presently constituted can be redeemed. I am now ready to move on. Even Bernie's jumping on the Clinton bandwagon doesn't have any effect on my attitude. He carried the baton as far as he could, and now he's passed it to us, in my view.

I see people still thinking the way I used to until very recently, and have compassion for them. It took me long enough to break with the party, and I can't fault people who take a little longer. They are repeating the arguments we all know too well, because those arguments are how they justify their stance. I'm not talking about the orcs who have taken over TOP, whose dishonesty and cynicism know no bounds. There are lots of people who are sincere and good-hearted, who will still vote for Clinton in November. I think they're mistaken, but until recently so was I. Life does offer those lessons in humility all too often....

up
0 users have voted.

Please help support caucus99percent!

She cannot keep what she stole. What the Hillarybots don't get is that many of us Bernie/Jill voters don't give a damn if Trump wins. We firmly believe there isn't a plug nickel's worth of difference between the two of them. Both will finish destroying our middle class, country, children's futures, and the globe. Nothing would make me happier than to see the Democrats lose.

up
0 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

fakenews's picture

up
0 users have voted.

"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN

Deja's picture

up
0 users have voted.
Redstella's picture

up
0 users have voted.
hester's picture

up
0 users have voted.

Don't believe everything you think.

Or, quadrito?

up
0 users have voted.
Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

up
0 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

Than vote for that woman. Course, here in Oregon, I may not get the choice to NOT vote for her, since I have heard several nice little stories about how certain votes seem to disappear.

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

WindDancer13's picture

Hell, California
Hell, Michigan
Hell, Norway
Hell, Grand Cayman
Hell Cave, Slovenia (has an actual gate)

5 Towns & Other Places of the World – All Called Hell

I will remain home and semi-dressed and vote...for anyone but HRC.

up
0 users have voted.

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

snoopydawg's picture

to vote for her anyway is beyond my understanding.
Many of us joined DK because of the inhumanity of the Iraq war that saw the Iraqis watch their country destroyed, their friends and family members killed by the invading forces that were there under false pretenses.
They saw their doors kicked in in the middle of the night with no regard for the people living there.
Then after Obama was elected president and continued the Iraq war, increased the troops in Afghanistan, and then destroyed Libya and Syria again under false pretenses, many people on DK went silent.
Even after he ramped up the use of drones in countries we weren't at war with or hadn't threatened us, not many people cared.
When he killed 3 Americans because he didn't like what the father was saying, his kid because "he should have picked a better father" and then finding out that he had a fucking kill list!
Hillary's supporters refuse to see that she is a warmonger and anyone who votes for her knowing her history of what she did during her time as SOS, will be responsible for the deaths and destruction in the wars she ramps up or starts.
People are in a snit because someone said that Trump wants to use nuclear weapons, but don't care that Hillary stated that she would use them on Iran. Now that is a double standard, don't you think?
Look at the neoconservatives flocking to her or the ones like Kagan who is advising her on foreign policy. Kagan wrote the PNAC, which Obama has followed.
Millions of people are dead and millions more have had to flee their country because of the terrorists that the US and its allies created, funded and trained.
If Obama was serious about destroying ISIL, then why doesn't he tell our allies to quit creating them?
The reason for the Syrian war was because Assad supposedly used sarin gas on his people.
Well guess who actually used it? Our moderate terrorists and guess who gave it to them? Our government! Where did it come from? Libya and it was transferred from the embassy in Benghazi by the CIA along with tons of weapons.
Anyone believe that Hillary wasn't aware of this? Or Obama?
Voting for Hillary is saying you are giving her permission to continue the wars and that you believe in them. That's my opinion.
And then there is this!
image_145.jpeg

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Deja's picture

that I love you?

This is so SPOT ON!

Maybe the best comment from you I've ever read. You seriously rocked and nailed it!

up
0 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

I feel at times my comments are too wordy or rambling because i have so much to say about what's happening to this country and what this country is doing to the world, especially those poor people who are caught up in our wars of aggression. Not to keep us safe, defend people in other countries or to spread freedom and democracy, but so that the corporations can steal other country's resourcess. And to make Israel the only super power in the Middle East.

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Deja's picture

Yes, they're wordy at times, but I always read the whole thing when it's from you. Always. You are one smart cookie, in my book!

Again, I agree with your assessment of the policies of our government.

up
0 users have voted.
reflectionsv37's picture

Your comments are always incitement and spot on. One of the best commenters on the site. When I see your name associated with a comment on the left side, I read it! Even if I'm not interested in the essay in which it was posted. And don't even worry about the length of your comments. They are always right on target!

up
0 users have voted.

“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

snoopydawg's picture

That is very kind of you to say. Thank you.

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Outstanding and righteous comment, dear friend!

up
0 users have voted.

Please help support caucus99percent!

snoopydawg's picture

It was amazing watching that happen over there, wasn't it?
The economy is in the toilet, the wars are never ending, the premiums and deductibles are going up making people's health insurance basically useless for many people and I keep reading comments on DK that say that Obama has been the best president since FDR.
I wonder how many people who voted for Obama because of Hillary's Iraq vote and what Bill did during his administration are now going to vote for Hillary.
I have a copy of Kos's speech about how Hillary is too much of a DLC democrat. I guess that doesn't bother him anymore especially since he is working with what the DLC morphed into.

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Maybe Zephyr Teachout will write another article. The cash stuffed into Markos' pockets couldn't have been more visible. The abasements he had to perform to earn that cash grew ever more humiliating, and the reader base he depends on was basically cut in half. I'm sure the paid trolls will keep the numbers up over there through the election, but they're going to be in a world of hurt once the Lame Duck outrages roll out.

up
0 users have voted.

Please help support caucus99percent!

snoopydawg's picture

on his site?
He had a graph that showed how high the traffic was before his March edict stating that anyone writing anything that made Hillary look bad would be banned even if it was the truth. The truth was banned from Daily Kos and between 200-500 people or more were banned and many others left.
The sites traffic went way down until Hillary's Correct the Record people joined the site and started writing those nauseating pro Hillary diaries. Many stated that they used to be Bernie supporters but finally saw the light and went with Hillary instead.
So the traffic is back up to the previous levels before March.
I too wonder what is going to happen to the site and traffic levels after the election. Possibly some of the newer members wil stay there and write diaries about how Hillary is playing 11 dimensional chess Smile
Or tell us that to hold her 'feet to the fire' we have to call our congress members, sign petitions and write emails like we did during the health care debates.

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

You made the point I wanted to make far more eloquently than I. The poster you included makes it far more powerfully than words.

up
0 users have voted.
SnappleBC's picture

The commenter defined our job as progressives as to keep pushing her left. The commenter believes this pressure can be generated most effectively by first voting for her in November.

But I tend to see it like you...

I don’t see how casting a vote for HRC increases my ability to pressure her to the left. I don’t see how my vote, even though I disagree with her profoundly, can be separated from the votes of people who agree with her enthusiastically. It seems to me that proof of the existence of a sizable block of voters on the left unwilling to support her would give her a great deal more to think about. She may need those votes in 2020 running against a genuine Republican candidate. The least productive course it seems to me is reaffirming her belief that I have nowhere else to go.

More pragmatically, no matter what anyone infers from the situation, if I vote for Hillary Clinton then I am endorsing her and I'm underwriting her wars of aggression and her economic looting. Does it really matter what anyone concludes from my vote when the reality of a Hillary vote is horrible enough when I look in my own mirror.

up
0 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

jwa13's picture

and we "losers" will push The $hill to the left -- I want some of whatever you're smokin'!! That is some SERIOUS denial going on, there --

up
0 users have voted.

When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

MsGrin's picture

any of us can be prone to it - took me far longer to pull back the veil than it should have. I didn't want to know things are this bad.

I think it's likely an infection rather than good dope, however. Too much of it has been passed around too easily.

up
0 users have voted.

'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

up a candidate that pulls the gop voters back her way in 2020. Say HRC wants your vote and needs your vote in 2020 and will say anything, promise anything, to get your vote for 4-more-years. Will you believe what she says? Will you believe in her promises?

Because just look at what she did in 2016. She took a left turn to deal with Bernie, foreswore the TPP and embraced lots of other cool lefty things, then when she (thought she) had things sewn up, turned to the middle. Which we all know is far more to the right than it was 30-40 years ago. That's what most of her war mongering is all about, btw, it's to appeal to the frightened right. Same Goldwater Girl, different century.

What will the HRC years look like? Will Bill behave himself around interns? Will the right give up their slanderous crazy complaints against HRC and complain about her real faults? Will the gotp work with her or continue to obstruct? How much of this depends on whether or not Trump starts a new cable news channel and hires Ailes to run it? Stay tuned ...

up
0 users have voted.

~annominous

I figure she'll have about 22 months after the 2018 election to convince me through actions that she means it.

Talk is cheap and the Clintons get a bulk discount.

up
0 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

We saw what actions and direction Obama was going to take before he even got elect when he voted for the FISA bill that he promised to filibuster.
Then we saw his cabinet picks. Not the people who helped get him elected, but the same ones that crashed the global economy and financed his campaign.
I already know what Hillary is going to do because who she has on her campaign staff advising her.
Paulson said that he's behind Hillary because Donald wouldn't promise to privatize social security.
I see diaries on LOF about how excited another republican or members of the military are endorsing her. I wonder if people could actually be that naive about the reasons why those people are endorsing her?

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Well,I can at least take small comfort in the fact that you didn't compare Sanders to
Vidkun Quisling.Comments of this nature have become de rigueur these days but it only distracts from your
otherwise correct analysis of tactical voting and the potential foreign policy disaster of a Clinton Presidency.

As snoopydawg so eloquently stated above a vote for Clinton is permission for,and endorsement of,an agenda of
callous cruelty and corruption.My morality,what's left of it, won't allow it.

up
0 users have voted.

Solidarity

I have great respect for Bernie, his accomplishments in congress over the years, and his accomplishments in the presidential campaign. I understand that the Democratic Party would have exacted a huge penalty if he'd made an issue out of election fraud. I can see him using the platform as part of a reason to endorse her, and expecting to be a stronger presence in the senate hopefully able to achieve more of what we want.

On the other hand from the selection of Kaine and the snub of Nina Turner to the treatment of Bernie delegates, the Clinton people have not missed an opportunity to denigrate Bernie and his supporters. Fine, make the endorsement; wave the platform although we all know how little it means; then go out and attack Trump while campaigning for progressives.

I am not a dedicated follower of fashion and was not inclined toward the de riguer attacks on Bernie for quite some time. But when people attack your people that much I think there is a place where you say "Cut it out." I think Hillary passed that place and all I heard from Bernie were more cheers for Hillary.

I do appreciate your point. But it's starting to hurt.

up
0 users have voted.

I am trying to patient and reserve judgement, but he definitely owes people an explanation for why he quit on them.

up
0 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

SnappleBC's picture

And insofar as I'm concerned, Bernie already gave that explanation before the whole thing began. He said he'd support the Democratic nominee. He has done so.... as he said he would. I'm pleased with that.

Before I start thinking that he quit on me, I'm waiting to see him actually quit. In the meantime, I still think the movement is more about us than him.

up
0 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Wink's picture

that Bernie "betrayed" them haven't been in the politics game very long. Bernie has done exactly what he said he would do.

up
0 users have voted.

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

A big part of me wishes that Sanders had broken his pledge to support the nominee and not run an
independent campaign.I imagine that pledge was the price of admission.However if he had broken it he would have
paid a higher cost.The loss of his integrity. In some peoples eyes ,perhaps his own, he would have become an untrustworthy opportunist.Exactly the thing that we reject.

up
0 users have voted.

Solidarity

josb's picture

I think if you continue to play by the rules when the other players cheat, you're a sucker waiting to be fleeced. Continuing the game legitimizes the fraud, but you'll lose anyway. The only thing you can do in that case is not to play. Here, the sandbox is the Democratic party.

up
0 users have voted.

Is it justified to act immorally for a moral cause?
I'm inclined to agree with you."You don't bring a knife to a gun fight",right? I believe Sanders holds himself to a higher standard,perhaps an unrealistic one,but I'm hesitant to condemn someone for an excess of integrity just because I find it inconvenient.

up
0 users have voted.

Solidarity

It was easy for me to walk away from her, although turning from the Democratic Party was much more difficult. Through thick and thin, I could be counted on to be the rebellious Democrat in a crowd of Republicans.
I dread WWIII. Snoopydawg brings it home with that comment.
I know the country will rally and support it. We will give up our sons and daughters to battle, we will ration oil, food, and we will give up our privacy, our free speech, and we will wave our flags once it is started.
We will.

up
0 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

riverlover's picture

what will she do to former Sanders' supporters? Gitmo? Send us off to war? I do not want to be truck-driving in the ME.

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Wink's picture

got my chips cashed in
Keep truckin', like the do-dah man
Together, more or less in line, just keep truckin' on

up
0 users have voted.

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

detroitmechworks's picture

and it's amazing how clever those enemy saboteurs are. They broke the truck again!

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

is a bit like being married to an abuser:
Ouch!
Aw, he didn't mean it
I know he really loves me
He won't do that again
Ouch!
He's begging me not to leave him
I feel so sorry for him
He promises me he'll do better
I want to believe in him
I can't just abandon him
He's a good person at heart
Ouch!
Where else could I possibly go?
We have to try to make this marriage work
I've invested so much in it
We've shared so much together
Ouch!

up
0 users have voted.

native

Wink's picture

Are leaving. The party has been put on notice that they are on double secret probation. For them to continue to exist (if rank & file leave), the party will have to reach out to and co-opt moderate Repubs. They're mostly Reagan Repubs at this point anyway, so it's no big stretch.

up
0 users have voted.

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

mhagle's picture

Voting for Mrs. Clinton is a non-negotiable on so many levels, but the war-mongering is certainly one of the worst. The picture of the disfigured little girl speaks volumes. Why are we killing children? Why is it again?

I believe that somehow it is up to us to speak out and speak clearly on the non-negotiables:

  • Endless war
  • Climate Crisis
  • Corruption
  • Inequality

Because many have been silenced. There are those who do not have the freedom to aggressively go against the DNC (and the RNC).

We can still speak out. So far the silencers don't give a shit about little peons in the middle of nowhere (like me). Hopefully there are social media and local things we can do. Hopefully there are those who have voted all sides who will come together on these issues.

up
0 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Cassiodorus's picture

I don’t see how casting a vote for HRC increases my ability to pressure her to the left.

They think we'll fall for this ridiculous idea that if we guarantee our votes for Clinton that somehow magically means we'll be able to "pressure" her.

up
0 users have voted.

"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Leema's picture

Hillary is not wooing the Left and appears to be moving further Right. So the logic here is: if she won't do it even to get our vote ...why in the hell would she do it once in office due to some sort of unspecified "pressure"?

up
0 users have voted.

When wealth rules, democracy dies.

Acceptable on war & peace issues after listening to this I do not understand.

[video:https://youtu.be/Fgcd1ghag5Y]

up
0 users have voted.