Burns, Episode 8 - The Post-Tet Landscape
General comment:
This series should really should be named "Grunts of Vietnam" because everything else is background, except a little for air support and helicopters. That explains how they will be able to cover the last six years of the war in only two episodes. Those years aren't about grunts. Operation Linebacker (1972) didn't happen to grunts. Watergate didn't affect grunts.
Of course, the tight focus on personal stories of ordinary soldiers is exactly the Paul Carell playbook that I spoke of in Episode 7. And that playbook explains the almost complete disappearence of the CIA.
1. This episode
Tet was like the chain reaction phase of an A-Bomb - it's all over in 30 nanoseconds; but it takes another whole second for the enormous energy released to begin to become manifest macroscopically. Tet vaporized the framework of honest speech, mutual trust, and voluntary cooperation which had been the unspoken organizing principle of both the US military and the US electorate. Once that framework was gone, the intrinisic violence and anarchy of the US came boiling to the surface: insubordination, fragging, weathermen, Black Panthers, Kent/Jackson State.
This year of the war was probably its worst. Troop levels were at their highest while morale was at its lowest. The war is shown, as it was then perceived, as senseless violence and un-American war crimes: tunnel fighting, another whole minute about the Phoenix Program (at least this one contains first person testimony from a torture victim), Hamburger Hill, the incontrovertable war crime at My Lai.
2. Editorial Bias
Given this much historical fact to cover in one chronological episode, only a hard core ideologue could say that the coverage was completely biased. I won't say that. The phrase "limited hangout" does come to mind though.
However, as other commentators have said, the series seems to imply that only those who had served in Vietnam and then became protestors had real moral standing. Only wounded soldiers or traumatized nurses have the right to call bullshit.
POW families are given a lot of very sympathetic airtime. There is one place where the narrator says, without any rebuttal, "the antiwar movement...seemed more sympathetic to NV civilians who had been bombed than they had been to US airmen who had been shot down doing that bombing". As if that was a no-brainer, instead of the wave of a bloody shirt. That's a distinct editorial comment. The pilots chose to fly. They chose to bomb civilians. They got shot down, and we should honor them as heroes? Because they were tortured? See the Phoenix Program. OTOH, Stockdale's wife comes across as a 24-carat bitch. So letting her speak for the POWs is also an editorial comment, albeit one that is not stated directly by the narrator.
I also object to the way they handled the overt commentary about 60s music. The only person who speaks to it directly is General McPeek, who comes off as very cool and very antiwar. The background music for his remarks is the lightweight "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" from the relatively tame Beatles. When you get to the real music, Woodstock, there is no commentary. Just a cross-cutting montage of doped up hippies dancing and singing versus soldiers fighting and dying. Real subtle message there, Ken. Fuck you.
At this point in time, the theme I have been pushing, that the CIA manufactured every step of US involvement, in VN fades into the background of the chaos unleashed by Tet, and by its most radioactive byproduct, Richard Nixon. (I will discuss the CIA at the very end.)
3. Nixon
Nixon was elected because he perfectly channeled the bitterness of the Silent Majority, whose 60+% majority is cited several times in this episode. George Wallace gets a mention, and his 20% vote share is mentioned. However, its significance could be missed if one didn't know that the South normally voted Democratic back then. That is, Humphrey never had a chance, peace talk sabotage by Nixon not withstanding.
Nevertheless, Nixon was sui generis. He had the pulse of the Silent Majority even better than Wallace. He whipped them up while managing to sound respectable. He shared their anger at East Coast Liberals and hippie college punks, and he expressed it genuinely and effectively. His draft lottery scheme and the beginnings of a troop withdrawl temporarily stabilized the home front political situation by pitting the innate conservatism and patriotism of the older generation against the moral outrage of the younger generation.
However, Nixon, as Kissinger remarked, (paraphrase) "did not make the same old mistakes. He made his own mistakes." He was an odd character, unstable, secretive, private.
Kissinger found Nixon "a very odd man...a very unpleasant man...so nervous...an artificial man...[who] hated to meet new people...He really dislikes people."
- O. Stone and P. Kuznick, "The Untold History of the United States"
So, he and Kissinger dreamed up the Cambodia invasion, which blew the home front apart again and resulted in Kent and Jackson State, which took the home front to new levels of divisiveness. The episode ends with some reflections by ex-military protestors. See timings below for editorial emphasis.
4. Unreported CIA activity
Here are some things the CIA did in this episode's time frame:
Prince Norodom Sihanouk claimed in his 1973 book that the CIA engineered his ouster by Lon Nol in March 1970. While Sihanouk's allegations about the CIA have never been substantiated, and it may well be the case that the highest levels of the U.S. government were surprised by the coup, there is a developing academic consensus that U.S. military intelligence was aware of and actively encouraged the plot to depose Sihanouk.
...the agency pumped millions of dollars into the politics of Thaiiland in 1968 and 1969; the cash financed the apparent transformation of the uniformed military into a ruling party ready to stand for election...The election came off and the ruling junta won handily. But the rulers grew impatient with the trappings of democracy. They soon ened the experiment, suspending the constitution and disbanding the parliament.
The CIA's covert action had been the thinnest veneer. "There should be no change in Thai relations with the US.", Kissinger told Nixon after the coup. "The leadrs of the Revolutionary Council are in fact essentially the same ones we whom we have been dealing all along."
- Tim Weiner, "Legacy of Ashes - The History of the CIA"
We ran the war in Laos and Cambodia through drugs,", (Bo) Gritz continued. "From '65 to '75 there is one CIA guy in Laos, named Shackley, involved in the narcotics business. And you know he used for distribution? Santos Trfficante, old friend of the CIA and mob boss. Later, Richard Armitage, who stayed in Asia after the Vietnam war ended, was a prominent trafficker in Bangkock between 1975 and 1979...Armitage was also responsible for recovery of US prisoners of war.
- Daniel Hopsicker, "Barry and the Boys - The CIA, the Mob, and America's Secret History"
-----
TIMINGS (very long topics are in bold)
Topic Start time End Time
PERSONAL STORIES
Brave nurses 1:30 - 5:18
POWs, (Stockdale's wife) 10:00 - 13:20
Tunnel war 14:24-15:55
Vallely 27:30-30:37
Medics 46:48-49:33
TIm O'Brien 1:01:27- 1:05:00
Bao Nihn 1:05:01-1:08:12
Dr. Kushner 1:30:31-1:32:16
O'Brien/Ehrhart//Musgrave 1:45:25-1:47:47
PROTESTS
Protests 7:54-8:32
Music - General McPeek 8:33-9:58
Woodstock 30:37-32:30
Mobilization/Draft Lottery 49:35-51:13
Weathermen 51:14-53:49
Legit Protest 53:49-58:06
Silent majority 58:07- 1:01:26
Protests/Musgrave/Deserter 1:18:19- 1:30:30
Negotiations/bombs at home/Nixon 1:32:17-1:34
Kent/Jackson State 1:38:25-1:45:25
WAR
Phoenix program, done by ARVN - 13:21-14:23
Hill 937 and reaction: 15:56-19:29
New army in 1968 - 32:20-42:27
POWs 45:05-46:46
My Lai 1:08:12- 1:18:20
NIXON
Vietnamization 21:00-27:29
Invasion of Cambodia 1:35:00-1:38:00
Comments
Thanks for the summary. What worry about civilians vs. POWS?
I read somewhere and have no doubt it is true, but the US dropped as much or more bombs (explosive TNT power) than we dropped in WWII.
They wanted to make the bombing into black/white situation
They paraded around the wives of POWs and said "if you don't support our POWs, you are a traitor". But supporting the POWs was then equated to supporting the bombing, and the antiwar people wouldn't do that.
So they used the POWs as a wedge issue. It was a much slimier wedge issue than flying the N. Vietnamese or Viet Cong flag or burning the American flag. Flags are symbols. Only real confrontational ideologues wanted to do that. Most people wanted to say "get out of Vietnam". The flag stuff was a self-inflicted wound. The POW issue was a dirty tactic used against the protestors.
As for bombing tonages, I keep seeing "3 times as much as in WW2" and "more than all the bombs dropped in all previous wars" (which really only includes WW2 and Korea).
Were any of Burns' stories more than letter fragments home?
Always so poignant. I have seen the beg-letters from my gg-grandfather from C-W era and they all seem the same. Homesick.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Burns will say that this is his style, that it is no surprise
and he is right. It is the media and critics fawning all over his "letters home" style of "history" that should be pilloried. Burns is free to make whatever film he wants. It is the critics job to call bullshit on the claim that this is serious history. They didn't do their jobs.
What this is is not history. It is, as you say, the equivalent of letters from Grunts, reminiscences of Grunts. How can you call something military history when it ignores almost everything between the commanding general and a platoon in a firefight?
He totally ignores the machinery of war, except to rightly blame McNamara and Westmorland for the idiotic "body count" "strategy".
He doesn't show the military equivalent of middle management trying to change strategy in response to the enemy, trying to integrate the sensors that I talked about back in #4-5. He doesn't talk about how and where reports got suppressed, weakened, or shitcanned. He doesn't talk about the massive "tail" - something like 70-80% of all in country personel were not out fighting. They were doing supplies, paperwork, communications.
Pretty much what I
heard, something like 75 /25. 75% "support" for 25% doing the fighting, when it should have been the other way around, 25 /75, 75% out fighting. One of my buds that served there said he spent about 95% of the time lying around the "barracks" smoking dope. Not that every 'nam GI Joe shared the same experience. Hardly. But he had some college, blond hair, blue eyes... didn't travel too far from his bunk.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I don't get it....
My son is watching an episode in the next room.
Partially listening to the uninspiring narrator, you might as well dissect Tennyson's The Charge of the Light Brigade for the reasoning behind the Crimean War, when listening to Burns' verbiage about Vietnam.
Why not just replay Karnow's earlier PBS documentary and save money.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Its Episode 8, and we know the whole thing is a nothingburger
I'm only watching this formulaic treacle to document it and to point out its resemblance to the Paul Carell rehabilitation of the Wehrmacht.
Thanks for documenting it
As far as I can I hear, it's all battlefield tactics, as opposed to grand strategy.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I agree. As I said above
Its the Lawrence Welk version of the war. Schmaltz for the masses.
@arendt Love these types of
Lawrence Welk
Good one.
When did PBS finally stop showing that show?
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Apparently, never
http://www.pbs.org/video/wsre-previews-and-trailers-lawrence-welk-god-bl...
Shoot me now, please.
The coverage and kudos for Mr. Burns and his
mockumrntary are starting to roll in...
Were you in the bathroom or out in the kitchen getting a snack while Ken was grieving over the 'watershed moment' having his great epiphany? Because apparently you didn't pick up on all Ken's anguish and angst over this 'moment' that so scarred his poor psyche. At least you don't mention it.
I will admit to seeing the part where the little naked Vietnamese girl was running down the road naked because she was burning up. Shame on that poor bombardier for 'mistakenly' taking all those FLEEING VILLAGERS for enemy soldiers. Good thing all those kindly soldiers were around and so helpful after their buddies in the plane tried to kill her and the rest of them.
What a pile of crap.
I was channel surfing when I caught that pant load. That was all I could stand.
EDIT: picture wouldn't work
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Hmm, some history I missed...
Obviously, you know something I don't. Could you please point me at the true story? Thanks.
It was part of the Ken Burns mockumentary.
That's what the narrator says as you see the bombs drop.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
oh. I get it.
I thought you were saying that there was more to it than simple error. So I went off into conspiracy land. Apparently, some folks claimed the strike had been called in by an American; but the guy they named was 500 miles away.
Thanks for clarifying that it was simple sarcasm. Yes, it was a cheery, breezy commentary for a horrific moment. All part of humanizing atrocity. You see, it had a "happy" ending. She survived. Forget about everything else.
That remark really angered me. I think about it I still
get angry.
But what's the story about some guy who was 500 miles away? I love a good conspiracy theory. They can be very 'entertaining'.
EDIT: added last sentence to clarify idon't necessarily believe conspiracy theories, but I do find some of them pretty damn funny. I know conspiracies exist, like the one involving the question "et tu Brute". But some people turn everything into one.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Here's one link, from 1997
https://www.warbirdforum.com/vphoto.htm
I googled "vietnam napalmed girl"; but threw away the results that I mentionsed. So I had to google it again right now.
This isn't the one about a guy 500 miles away, but it will give you the flavor of the CT.
Most articles the search turns up are about her, her surgery, her subsequent life. But a few are about the incident and CT thereof.
Thank you.
EDIT: just to add that that Dan Ford had an agenda. What was it other than to cover up for a war crime , I wonder?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
No doubt
I mean, warbirdforum? An agenda as big as the Hollywood sign.
I wish I hadn't lost the thing I googled first. It was much more even handed.
Here is the link I found before
The part I mis-remembered (50 miles, not 500) was on Page 4 of this:
I never heard of any of this. Especially that Jan Scruggs was involved.
IMHO, if this site is CT, it is very slick. Still, I have no memory of Scruggs involvement.
Oh my. Mr. Stockton sure was in a tizz
because she wasn't beating a drum screaming for revenge and placing blame.
I truly have to say, if the way she is described in that article is anywhere close to the truth, she's a far better person than I am. I would never forgive. I would never be quiet. But I am a vengeful creature.
That is one weird tale.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I wasn't reading for content, just looking for CT
I missed the author's attitude.
Thanks.
Dancing with the stars
All i can say is it beats watching most of the mindless crap on most channels,i have enjoyed watching it and i have learned something and it has sparked old memory's
DW
This is mindful crap. Why watch TV at all?
If you are starving and someone offers you carcinogen-laced chocolate, should you eat it?
I am writing this so that people wake up to how much less safe we are today, so that people realize what expensive manipulation this series is, and how it supports the MIC. It saddens me that you feel (mis-)informed and entertained, rather than worried and manipulated.
I have watched this series only out of self-defense. I have been angry to observe the manipulation that is going on. What I have learned is that TV continues to propagandize us. What the series has reminded me of is that the same hard-right militarists who were exposed fifty years ago are still running this country, and have run it almost into the ground.
As I have been pointing out for 8 episodes, this is propaganda. While you are taking a trip down memory lane, we are provoking the Russians in Syria (a country which we have destroyed, like Vietnam), demonizing them in the media on a daily basis in a new McCarthyism, doing Vietnam all over again in Afghanistan, and locking down a police state in this country.
The most striking thing for me in this series is the genuine freedom available to the protestors, and the press freedom. Reporters used to have access to the battlefield, and editors used to back them up. The SCOTUS used to defend the Constitution, and oppose racism and warmongering. The police used to be mere ham-fisted bullies instead of the smooth, Stasi-like machine they are today. The MIC used to contain honorable men who loved their country and its Constitution enough to blow the whistle. Today whistleblowers don't join the MIC. The few that do turn up can expect brutal punishment or exile for telling the truth.
In closing: are you aware you are being manipulated? If so, do you think you can outsmart the manipulation, or do you simply not care?
Amen. A perfect example of why we
are where we are today.
I try to always remember that many don't want to hear about Vietnam because they participated in the war on the side of lying cretins who led us into the rice paddies and the villages of innocent people. People who did nothing to deserve US aggression used against them. What did American soldiers feel while walking through somebody else's country with a gun aimed at innocent villagers who's country they were/are persecuting?. Was it a Clintonesque type rationalisation? Sort of like "you have to kill the village to save it"? Was that the rationalisation behind My Lai? Or was it just American's pissed off because they were stuck in-country so they took it out on innocent people?
I wonder the same about anyone who served in Iraq. How does one justify killing innocent people who did not one damn thing to this country or the people in it over a lie? If they say 'I didn't know it was a lie" I always laugh. The lies were so blatant and the proof against the biggest justification for invasion,"Saddam wouldn't let inspectors in to investigate snd search for WMDs" was countered in real time daily by UN weapons inspectors led by Hans Blix on the Nightly News telling the world the results of the searches they were conducting in Iraq AT THAT VERY TIME. There was film of them being there. But ignoramuses every where claim they "were lied to". Well trust me on this one: No freaking Vietnamese person was going to come over her and mess with me or my stuff. In fact, they weren't coming over here to mess with any of us. Neither were the Iraqis. At least not at that time. How does one justify participating in war crimes and genicide to themselves? Do they ever correlate America aggression with American greed and arrogance. Are human rights only for 'Western' Nations? I don't understand the thought process if ANYONE who can make excuses for American aggression against innocent people.
Here's just one example of how low this country will go to justify their lies:
I'm sorry but fighting in bogus wars, for whatever reason, doesn't impress me. I had more respect for draft evaders (and still do) than I had or have for anyone who served in Vietnam. Sadly I knew 2 people who were drafted and died there. And we got run out of there with our tails between our legs.
FOR WHAT?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Tried watching 1st episode. Stopped at McNamara w/Kennedy
At least I think that's who it was. Photo of them conversing on a porch, McNamara with his hair slicked back. Couldn't tell you what was being said by the voice over because I was saying, "What the fuck? Who is that? Is that McNamara? You've got to be fucking kidding me! Kennedy too? Fuck this shit!" Then I turned it off.
Could be totally wrong about affiliation, who it was in those photos. Like, I misnamed him Rumsfeld at first which reminded me of the documentary Sweet Misery and his involvement in getting aspartame past the FDA after Saint Ronnie replaced the board with his own shills, and despite the data not aligning with the reports.
Either way, I stopped watching, and didn't try again. Not being born when Kennedy was alive, and obviously not paying much attention to the who, what, when in history, seeing that piece of shit consulting a president who was damn near worshipped, and who was supposedly not a warmonger made my stomach churn.
History is important, even if it is revolting
You know, Santayana and all:
"Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it."
It is sad to say, but Kennedy and McNamara are way better than the gangsters that have been running the country since 1980. That's not saying much; but it is true.
Could you tell me how you, as a voter, make decisions about matters of policy, especially foreign policy? To my mind, knowing history, knowing how we've been lied to is essential to prevent it happening again. (Although, there is no history that could prepare us for President Trump.)
Voting
Learning what I have about policy from those on this site, and seeing the shit show through new lenses after the 2016 primary, I see no difference between the two major parties. So, unless there is a real revolution and real non corporate whore candidates, I likely won't vote again. LOTE is no reason to.
Its important to resuce would-be grunts from this agitprop
If I ever get into a discussion about this series, I might say something like:
Ever since Vietnam, the US military has failed to win; and it has done poorly for its soldiers.
Leaving out Grenada and Panama, which were temper tantrums against pygmies, let's review.
1. The First Gulf War was against a guy to whom we (in the person of Donald Rumsfeld) sold chemical weapons. The war ended with him still in power. We then left the Kurds hanging out to dry, but we started another one of our embargoes. Madelaine Albright said of the results of that embargo that "half a million dead children were worth it".
2. The Iraq War finally got rid of Saddam, but after a Vietnam-like guerilla war experience, we turfed that war to the locals. Meantime, the soldiers were down to applying for foodstamps, having their houses foreclosed while they were abroad, and having the VA fail them. General Petreus got caught given Top Secret info to his mistress. He never spent a day in jail.
3. The Afghanistan War has been 16 years of whack a mole in support of an opium operation that has Laos/Air America written all over it.
Bottom line: Even if this series tells some of the truth about Vietnam, the US government and its neocon cheerleaders have learned nothing.
may be the entertainment industry could have
prepared us for a Trump industry. It's their swamp on which a political entertainer could grow. And it's the facebook, twitter and co. industry that distracts, confuses, and bamboozles all the enlightening thoughts you can learn from there as well. It's a soup that cooks in hell stirred up by stiletto feminist witches and thickened by cult-like macho faux religious men.
No thanks.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Trump is just another distraction served up by TPTB
Since they now control both parties, all branches of government, most of state governments, and all of the mass media, it really doesn't matter what the politicians do or say. It is all theater. What else explains complete and utter nonsense like Russia-gate and the insane kerfuffle over the national anthem? When these topics dominate the "news", you know that the media is nothing more than a tool of TPTB.
If the public gets upset by the theatre, TPTB have the entire DHS to put them down. They have total information awareness, the ability to steal your identity and loot you blind. They have fake news, infiltrators, crisis actors. They can spin any true story any way they like it.
Right now, they're just waiting for the current financial bubble to collapse so they have a legitimate excuse for the next round of oligarchic laws.