Reality Check: Hillary will face no legal consequences for email scandal
Unlike TOP, this site will remain reality-based, and that goes double for presidential politics.
With that in mind, we need to acknowledge that while Hillary obviously broke the law, she will never suffer from this offense.
“Secretary Clinton should have surrendered all emails dealing with Department business before leaving government service, and because she did not do so, she did not comply with the Department’s policies that were implemented in accordance with the Federal Records Act,” the audit report said. Bottom line: Mrs. Clinton violated the Federal Records Act.However, what is probably the most troubling about all of this is that, despite these blatant violations, there will be absolutely no legal repercussions for Mrs. Clinton for this offense. She’s off the hook! Why aren’t all the pundits screaming about that?
As LawNewz.com‘s contributor, Dan Metcalfe, wrote about several weeks ago, anyone who violates this law (and leaves office) will face zero consequences. That’s because it is a civil law, not a criminal law, and penalties only apply to current federal employees. Employees, like Clinton and Powell, who leave office, can skirt punishment. The Federal Records Act is in place not only to provide the American public with some level of transparency but also “to protect the legal and financial rights of the Government and of persons directly affected by the agency’s activities.”
“There are absolutely no penalties provided by law for this misconduct,” Metcalfe said. He would know, Metcalfe was the founding director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy. He was essentially “the federal government’s chief information-disclosure ‘guru.’”
“This report unsurprisingly finds gross violations of the Federal Record Act’s requirements by then-Secretary Clinton and her personal staff, not to mention inexplicably poor oversight by State’s top records-management officials as they simply let her do as she pleased,” Metcalfe told LawNewz.com, “Even taking a charitable view, it serves as an indictment of Ms. Clinton’s conduct on the civil side of her ledger, documenting misconduct that would surely lead to dismissal were she still employed there.”
As Metcalfe pointed out, The Federal Records Act, if violated in this way, does allow action to be taken against a government employee– but only administrative action. Both Clinton and Powell are not in office, so they can’t be punished. As for the Freedom of Information Act, there are sanctions provided under (a)(4)(F)(1), but again, those penalties only apply to someone who is still working for the federal government. While there are consequences if you are found to have intentionally destroyed federal records, the audit did not make a finding that this happened.
To put it another way, any dreams of Hillary in handcuffs are fantasies unless evidence of other law breaking emerges.
But Hillary will still have to face the music during a deposition, right? Probably not.
The Obama administration is trying to prevent former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton from being deposed in an ongoing open records case connected to her use of a private email server.Late Thursday evening, the Justice Department filed a court motion opposing the Clinton deposition request from conservative legal watchdog Judicial Watch, claiming that the organization was trying to dramatically expand the scope of the lawsuit.
Judicial Watch is “seeking instead to transform these proceedings into a wide-ranging inquiry into matters beyond the scope of the court’s order and unrelated to the FOIA request at issue in this case,” government lawyers wrote in their filing, referring to the Freedom of Information Act.
The Obama Administration has Hillary's back.
Comments
Two track legal process.
There is civil litigation that is still ongoing. Judicial Watch is one of the civil cases, and even with the Obama administration intervention into that case, the plaintiffs hit the judicial lottery, when they landed a George W. Bush/George H.W. Bush/Reagan appointee as the judge overseeing the case. Judge Walton has been favorable to the plaintiffs so far, so I wouldn't take it as a given that the administration's actions will be successful -- may have to hope for a successful appeal.
The second track involves the FBI case, which is a criminal investigation. That case is still ongoing.
Correct: FBI is criminal investigation.
What a lot of people are missing is the question WHY did Hillary have a private server? Stupidity? Convenience?
Maybe it was so that Bill could have access to state department info while the two were traveling in different parts of the world. With that information, he could arrange lucrative deals and get paid big bucks for his "speeches" in return.
Or, maybe the server emails that she erased (which FBI is trying to piece together anyway) showed favors to certain people/groups.
http://observer.com/2016/05/game-over-emailgate-just-crippled-the-clinto...
But if this thing drags out too long, then she still won't go to prison. When it finally comes to a guilty verdict when she's president, then she steps down and her vice-president pardons her, like with Nixon.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/president-ford-pardons-former...
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato
Great comment Plato
That's exactly what I have been thinking about why she had a private server. So that no one could see that people from her foundation also were able to access the emails.
Bill almost always gave a paid speech to the governments of countries that her state department were selling weapons to and then those governments would donate millions to the foundation.
During her confirmation hearings she was told to and agreed that she would keep her foundation separate from her foundation. And Obama also ordered her to do that.
There's so much evidence that shows she didn't adhere to the rules.
And it wasn't just the weapons sales, there was the pay to play in Haiti too. Anyone or any corporations that wanted in on the reconstruction after the earthquake had to go through the foundation first. Who the hell gave them permission to do that?
Then there's her interference from her state department in making sure that the minimum wage didn't get raised to $.61/hour. What business was it of the US's state department to keep the minimum wage down? It was because of the Clinton foundation making sure that the sweat shops were up and running as soon as possible as well as the hotels and casinos so that their rich friends could get back to making money.
Then there's Bill and Hillary's influence with other government officials to give their friends access to lucrative contracts. And after they got those contracts, they would donate to the foundation.
See my comments below about Sidney Bluementhal and his roll in Libya that profited the foundation.
The reason why she had a private server was so that people couldn't see the crimes she was committing.
And does anyone believes that the 30,000 emails she erased were about Chelsea's wedding and yoga?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
You are right on the money (pun intended) Snoopydawg.
If she doesn't go down for this it is going to get worse than any of us thought. This will set a precedent for our politicians to operate in secret much more than they already do.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Spot On!
Correct.
Peace -
Murph
My Thoughts From Day 1
Finally a piece that actually recognizes the real story. Look mishandling classified info is illegal and may be what brings her down but it is not the story. The email system was absolutely set up to hide the deals she was making to get $$$ for the Foundation and cash for themselves.
What really bothers me is that whistleblowers
who disclosed information that they felt showed government wrongdoing have been prosecuted mercilessly by the Obama Administration. The documentary Silenced tells the story of three American whistleblowers who were prosecuted by the Obama Administration. While only one went to jail, his honesty actually worked against him. I can give an IMDB link to the film, but there is absolutely nothing on Wikipedia about this. A search will only bring up a Korean film. It appears that there is a climate of, "The less known about this the better," at Wikipedia.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2827908/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
Silenced is on Netflix streaming.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I think this is the same film
...starts with the trailer, then goes into the film.
https://leaksource.info/2015/02/08/silenced-the-war-on-whistleblowers-ki...
From the Light House.
It is. Thank you for the link.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
That may indeed be the case
but it hasn't come to light yet, and it may never come to light.
Personally I'm incline to believe the reason for the personal email server had more to do with arrogance.
Foreign governments and others would donate money to
a Canadian charity, then that charity would donate to The Clinton Foundation so that who the donors are can be hidden.
Then The Foundation seems to use only about 10% of its' funds for charity.
I'm inclined to think the private server has a lot to do with money.
the most important thing in the IG report?
that NO ONE gave Clinton permission, nor was it policy or allowed or had any precedent at all, to have a private server. if there was any wiggle room on that one question, she'd perhaps have a viable defense. but this leaves her without a life preserver, imo.
and that finding now allows the FBI to gear up its criminal investigation, which is already (from what I've read and analysis from between the lines) looking at pay-to-play. too many donations to Clinton Foundation from countries that simply never donate to charities in US and too many coincidences in donations and favorable deals, whether in policy or arms et al, to those countries / entities.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Here's something I've never seen asked
How did putting her aides into her closed circuit, private communication system contribute to her convenience, her purported reason for the server in the first place? It takes the same effort to email someone regardless of their server. The only thing that is gained as far as I can see is the ability to hide conversations and ignore FOIA requests.
Her aides were on the public dole and their emails were official public records as much as hers and also subject to FOIA requests, Congressional oversight, etc. Except that they weren't, they were shrouded in the same secrecy as her emails when they communicated to one another about official DOS matters. When she communicated to her aides from her clintonemail to theirs, she doesn't even have the shell of her campaign's sad construct that she always emailed everyone on their .gov addresses so that records would be preserved. In other words, HRC compounded her own "mistake" to compromise the communications of her underlings and expanded the unethical umbrella she created.
When she and/or her flacks were erasing the server of her private emails, were they also erasing the records of her aides communications with her?
I also note that in the hacking attempts that were apparently thwarted by Bill's "non-departmental" aide, that guy emailed that "they" were being hacked (i.e. the Foundation and the State people on the private server) which was followed up by Abedin's (I think) warning stop sending anything "sensitive" through the system. I wonder what constituted "sensitive" in that context?
(Side note - does turning a server off for a few minutes actually forestall hackers? Wouldn't they just start right back up again when the power light goes back on?)
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
what she said, according to what I've read is this:
make sure my private stuff can't be accessed.
okay. fine. then have a private server for your private stuff. but how does that then correspond to you needing to put all gov't business out of reach of the public? well, an easy analysis would be: she didn't want the public to know her judgement calls at state because she knew then (as we all did) she'd be running for President.
and... how one could construe, even in her gov't mails, the undertone of pay-to-play
the problem Clinton has put herself in? besides absolutely no basis or permission to run State business through her private server (think about it that way), when she co-mingled on that private server ALL of her gov't work and all of her "private" stuff, then EVERYTHING EVERYTHING on that server ostensibly belonged to the gov't until its review and release of what she and her atty's claimed were private.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
And maybe I'm being overly optimistic,
but I'm sensing at TOP that this is starting to sink in with even the hardcore Clintonistas. I know you've engaged in those threads, and it seems that SOME mental walls are starting to come down, or at least the old talking points are failing. It's an incredible amount of self-deception.
The beauty of modern man is not in the persons but in the
Disastrous rhythm, the heavy and mobile masses, the dance of the
Dream-led masses down the dark mountain.
- Robinson Jeffers, Rearmament
i hope you are correct.
but many are still confused as to what the IG report is and how that relates or does not relate to an FBI criminal investigation.
without trying to sound partisan (hard to do), i try to explain it from my understanding. so far, no flags. so maybe that means there are cracks in the pavement over there? we desperately need to hold the powerful accountable. at this point, it isn't so much about the election for me, but reinstating the rule of law where everyone, especially those who are supposed to uphold it, are accountable to it.
it does us no good to enact laws that can simply be ignored. the most troubling thing to date: why is that horrid Gov. Snyder still not in front of a federal grand jury? there should have been an expedited response to his crimes against humanity.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Why?
There is no more pleasurable a job than to work in your PJs while millions of dollars flow into your accounts from nefarious sources. Never mind the fact that it someone running for el presidente of the US ..... what a fucked up country.
I don't care if she goes to prison
I just want something, anything, to come out between now and the convention that will get her out of the race -- either she has to step down (gracefully or otherwise) or the super-delegates scrounge enough loose change in the sofa cushions to buy a clue and realize that she's a walking time-bomb of lies that's going to blow up not just her, but down-ticket candidates as well. While President Trump would probably be all bluster and no action when it comes to some of his more outrageous ideas, I worry that his election would give carte blanche to his supporters to enact their own brand of vigilante justice against those they view as "the enemy" which is pretty much anyone who isn't white and male.
The Bushes and the Clintons are best friends
They travel in the same circles, hang out with the same Neocons and Wall Street people, and also hang out with each other. It is a mistake to think of them as "enemies". They are very good friends...(and add Kissinger to that list too).
consequences
Well, we know our government is broken. The big question seems to be , How broken must it be to make us, as Americans, demand that there are consequences to pay if you willingly break the law. Just another example of one judicial system for the 99%, and a completely separate one for the 1%.
White collar, corporate, and political crimes need to result in incarceration, (in the general prison population, not some cushy federal country club) before it will become less prevalent
White collar/corporate crime,
White collar, corporate, and political crimes need to result in incarceration, (in the general prison population, not some cushy federal country club) before it will become less prevalent.
Absolutely correct. Rec'd! Good diary and comment thread. Hope everyone is enjoying the Holiday Weekend.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
See my comment above about the documentary "Silenced."
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
unfortunately
the DoJ has left the building with Elvis for the last 15 years ... There have been some reported sightings but the sightings have come from unreliable sources and without substance or evidence ... like in 2008/2009 or in 2001 or in 2003. John Yoo is probably held in high regard by many in the cast of stage players of the current DoJ act.
Granted, the high and mighty never suffer prison time
But the arena of public opinion is a whole different matter.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Assuming the media reports on it
The article in the essay doesn't address all the dirt connected with what she did. The Observer did and boiled her in oil. If she makes it to President, the GOP will impeach her. How could they possibly resist?
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
GOP will Impeach Hill
Yep, if she makes it to her rightful throne in the Oval Office, the GOP will impeach because 1. It's on the taxpayers' dime. 2. It's great optics. 3. It looks like the House is actually doing something except going on perpetual vacation breaks and 4. Going after Clinton blood is satisfying.
Oh, if she's POTUS, the GOP will impeach her.
But I don't think that they can do it for the email server, nor for anything that happened before she becomes POTUS (ugh, hopefully never). Impeachment of a president is reserved for crimes committed while in office. However, I'm sure the GOP will come up with something within the first 6 months or so!
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
The GOP Will Impeach
Done deal, Hillbilly Dem, if Hill finagles Herself into the Oval Office. Don'cha know the Clintons have said they intend to run the Clinton Family Foundation WHILE in the White House, despite getting warnings from advisors that it appears unseemly. Too much money coming their way to turn down for mere appearances.
Public opinion no longer means squat.
They are in insulated groups, not hearing or reading what Public has to say. Spin doctors, body guards, publicists, stylists. The flotsam of a sucking crew. They eat, drink, breathe the air we are not allowed into. Henry Kissinger. Get real.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Is the depo they are trying to block for the FBI investigation?
Or is it for a separate court case being brought by that RW group?
the deposition is NOT for the FBI investigation.
It's for the civil case brought by Judicial Watch, having to do with the Freedom of Information Act.
The FBI's investigation is of potentially criminal misconduct (by any of a number of people, possibly including Hillary). You don't take depositions in criminal investigations, as a rule. I think the FBI has said they'll ask to interview Clinton at some point. Legally, she doesn't have to agree to an interview; as a political matter I think she does.
Emmet
I see
I didn't realize that depos weren't done for criminal investigations.
Thanks for the info!
But they're darn useful to have if you're a prosecutor...
so I suspect Hillary will do everything she can to prevent a civil deposition. Given how many times she's lied about this issue, having a civil deposition released right now would probably result in her either pleading the 5th, or saying some gobbly-gook like, "I believed I had the authority to authorize my own use of a private e-mail server." And then a lot of I don't recalls when it comes to specifics.
The beauty of modern man is not in the persons but in the
Disastrous rhythm, the heavy and mobile masses, the dance of the
Dream-led masses down the dark mountain.
- Robinson Jeffers, Rearmament
Needs to be pointed out more often.
.
"Judicial Watch" sounds like some high-minded defenders of the Constitution. They're not.
yep
.. probably very similar to the Southern Poverty Law Center... useless pontification of words masquerading as something important and good. If they do any good somewhere, it is just a cover for their shitty deeds like philanthropy used by rich and greedy assholes to memorialize themselves after they finally leave this world.
as i discussed in a comment a day or two ago,
they are equal-opportunity true-believer RW nativist small-government ideologues. they harried and harrassed the Bush/Cheney maladministration from the very start of the Iraq war, demanding and publicizing info on the full range of B/C's crimes and misdemeanors -- the Niger uranium stuff (though a brief search of their site didn't turn up much interest in the Plame affair), the torture, and especially, the immense array of financial corruption, from the no-bid contracts onwards.
dismissing their efforts and findings because of their ideology is a definitive ad hominem argument.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Blind squirrels find nuts too, sometimes
That "Judicial Watch" is a "RW" source does not necessarily mean that they're making shit up. (Making a mountain range of a foothill, arguably, but there definitely is some "there" there.)
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Even a broken clock can be right twice a day
If we can't count on the Dems to police their own, maybe we need right-wing groups like Judicial Watch in this case.
I admit that the FOIA violations bother me the most -- what was in those emails, especially the deleted ones? So I'm in favor of JW's suit, no matter the source.
Agree completely, there will never be a perp walk for her
At most, this might help to sink her already-flailing campaign for the presidency. That's the only possible real consequence she might suffer. But then, her die-hard supporters don't care... they are happy to pretend that she did nothing wrong. So we will see if her polling can get any worse. but waiting for her to face legal consequences? ... Nope, that is not gonna happen.
While I would Love to See Her Behind Bars
just ejecting her from the campaign, pre convention will suffice for me.
Hate to say it
but I don't think anything will come of this. I just don't think most people give a big rat's patootie about the whole thing. The email thing has been beaten to death for months and no matter what comes out of it now people are just tired of it.
Hillary's email thing is damning
She is untrustworthy, she is devious, she is completely self-serving.
Be a Friend of the Earth, cherish it and protect it.
And the Obama Justice Department
lacks the genital fortitude to go after her for her misdeeds. Hence, no legal repercussions.
File under "Look Forward, Not Backward."
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
"genital fortitude"
Nice phrase. Not gender specific. Not sexist. I like that phrase.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
very true
however I tend to classify the DoJ as a fully politicized department staffed in the 'important' positions by political eunuchs... though I tend to believe the lower ranks may have some hard working lovers of real justice but it is impossible to tell by the departments track record for all these years.
Obama's Justice Department
has spent the past seven years throwing the book at whistleblowers, while looking the other way at the criminal misdeeds of the wealthy and powerful.
Yes & The Media as usual is so misguided
and focused on the wrong thing, always. They let Hillary a.k.a. the one who never tells the truth, spin everything. Talking about her private emails and how many she turned over etc.
1. This isn't about your private emails it is about your official ones
2. No one gives a shit if you had a private email server for your personal emails whether it is 10 or 10,000. This is about you using a personal invisible methods to hide your official emails
Agreed
But I have not seen any comment about mixing personal and state dept emails. This is also clearly a big no-no.
By mixing the emails, now all the "deleted personal emails" (now presumably recovered) are automatically admissible in a criminal proceeding, and the FBI must follow any additional (initially unrelated) criminal investigative path that is thereby discovered.
Any deleted personal email leading to a "pay for play" indictment would clearly constitute obstruction of justice on the part of the deleter.
This might be why it is taking the FBI longer to finish up the job.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." de Saint-Exupery
Agree Clinton's Are Dirty as Can Be But
If indeed the auto back up feature from her IT company that the FBI now has will create an interesting situation when they interview her.
Ms Clinton, when you turned over the emails to the state department was that all of them?
when she answered yes, they will have her for lying to the feds, if she answers no, well that is the end of that
It does not sound like they are all recovered
...for instance they found some were missing when Blumenthal turned in his batch, I believe - no reference to those having been dug up, at any rate. But then there are so very many facets to all of this that one reporter would have a difficult time covering all of the bases in the particular part of the information universe being covered in a piece of reporting.
Too bad that this finding is negative at least at this point - but we know that she did given what information has been released - stuff not turned over to the govt was wiped, right?
Was watching online part of Rachel's show from Friday, I think, and she was making a big effort to portray the State requirements for preserving documents as being antiquated and absurd. Perhaps they are, but they happen to be the laws which are in effect, and if Clinton did not like them, she had something of a tenure where she could have asked that they be reviewed and modernized, but she did not do that.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
and dangerous.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
The Benghazi angle is what's been beaten to death.
The use of the private server is a different story.
Part of the issue here is that she has repeatedly lied about the issue in the press -- e.g. as the IG report showed she never obtained legal authorization, she failed to comply with records retention laws, entire years are missing from the record. Contrary to what she said the private server was not fully secure -- we don't know the extent of any hacking, but the IG report indicates that there were attempts to steal information. Her people lied to colleagues in the State Dept. saying that Clinton had received legal clearance for the server and that people should "never mention it again". She lied about her cooperation with investigations (e.g. Clinton and her subordinates refused to cooperate). At an absolute minimum, these issues speak to Clinton's credibility and trustworthiness -- and outside of her supporters, I think that this information is likely to be damaging.
The criminal track is looking at other issues, but it's a safe bet, that if she is elected president, that her 4 year term will engulfed by issues of legality around her actions as Secretary of State (if the GOP maintains control of the House).
They don't care because they
Aren't listening. Benghazi numbed them. If they even k ow this isn't about Benghazi, they think it is about FOIA. Then they stop because that is where most of the media left it. If the media makes up with Trump, they might go after Hillary.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
there still is
the court of public opinion.
Those could hold inevitable consequences all their own.
Court of public opinion
Maybe so, but most get their "opinions" from the MSM, which is "all in" for Clinton and the oligarchy. It's kind of an infinite loop of corruption and disinformation.
and so
we continue to blog,
to counteract their traditional effect.
I'm new here (yay!) and I have a dumb question.
I appreciate the reality-based approach, for sure, and sadly you are probably right about the (un-)likelihood of legal repercussions for Clinton's email improprieties.
My question is: Does "TOP" stand for "That Other Place" ?
yes
Solidarity forever
Thanks for Asking
I couldn't figure that one out. You'll also see it referred to as GOS which means Great Orange Satan. I haven't figured out what DBAD means.
Guessing --
"Dont Be a Dick" ?
Correct!
Acronym finder is a good site for most other abbreiviatons
http://www.acronymfinder.com/
Welcome to the site, Dream it Real
And enjoy your stay here.
We are a very friendly group of people and feel free to write a diary on any topic that interests you.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
I love it so far!
I love the spirit of the site, and I also love the simplicity of the interface. HUGE RELIEF. I was already kind of sick of "TOP" before the really hateful anti-Sanders stuff started going on, just because of the new design.
Welcome aboard.
We try to be polite, even when we disagree, which is often.
We also can be quite empathetic. Lots of nice people here.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
and you can edit comments! I love that when I get carried away
and misspell every other word.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
TOP
Yep, See we don't have to say the "d" work or "k" word
It's SNAFU AND FUBAR over then anyways!
"YOU must be the change you wish to see in the world." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
The Other Place
The TOP nickname makes me smile, because "The Other Place" is an old time euphemism for hell.
So if there' s no chance of legal repercussions
Why is the FBI bothering to investigate her? Need more billable hours?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Plausible Deniability.
To create the illusion and hope that the oligarchy will face justice for their blatant crimes.
Honestly, the only way Hillary will ever be smacked down is if she ever stupidly steals from a rich guy.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I think the OIG report
stripped Hillary of plausible deniability.
Of course, I've actually investigated the damn report. 83 pages! What the heck? They could have said the whole thing in three pages of prose and possibly that many pages of end notes.
Hmmph! [face of disgust with things written in governmentese]
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Disagree
Check out Comey's history with the Clintons. If anyone is itching to give them a well deserved public smack-down, it's Comey.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
There was enough evidence
that they had to investigate. The people empowered to actually do things with the information the investigation turns up have no intention of doing anything with the information the investigation turns up.
"Hey, we investigated. What more do you want?"
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
I hear that there's a lot of FBI agents
who have said that if she is not indicted, they will walk.
But what we're saying--that the government won't punish her--is different from what gjohnsit is saying--that the government CAN'T punish her, because there is no legal liability.
Or maybe I misread the essay?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Or at least no CRIMINAL liability (the civil suit proceeds..)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The FBI can only recommend
It's the DOJ that will decide whether to indict, and well, they have a pattern.
Maybe I am misreading all of this, but
here is my take. I believe what gjohnsit is saying in this essay is that there is no mechanism for prosecution in her failure to comply with the internal records procedures which is what the Office of the Inspector General was investigating and for which the latest report was issued. That was a process issue. If I am correct, this is a separate investigation than that of the FBI which is a criminal investigation into the misuse of classified records which is far more serious. This is also where the government's seizure of the server comes into play.
I welcome corrections on the above if I am wrong.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Hi Gulfgal,
I am thinking the same thing. I think I do a decent job of separating the facts from my desires; I'm not positive though.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Agree... And Disagree...
IF she gets the nomination and somehow beats Drumpf - She will face impeachment almost immediately. Otherwise, you are right.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
She might face impeachment . . .
but, if the GOP continues to control the House, they would be well served to actually build a case first.
Benghazi is a dead-end. The Clinton Foundation is another story. The risk is that the Clinton Foundation controversies could create problems for some of the GOP's mega-donors too.
About like Obama
if the republicans keep the House and Senate she'd face impeachment whether she did something or not.
Ooooh! You're right.
The Clinton Foundation is almost virgin territory. What an opportunity! And if they can show that pay for play occurred while she was in office . . . . .
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
I honestly don't think impeachment is in the cards (if FSC
is elected President).
A while ago, I posted a photo of WJC with two right-wing icons at the funeral of the late right-wing billionaire, Richard Mellon Scaife. Apparently, WJC eulogized him.
I believe that Mellon Scaife was one of the Republicans who financed the attempts by the right-wing media (David Brock, etc.) to discredit the Clintons during the 1990's.
Here's a link to the Politico piece and photo.
IMO, FSC would provide perfect 'cover' to finish off eviscerating the Social Safety Net, especially if Repubs keep the House (likely) and the Senate (?).
Hopefully, we won't have to find out!
Mollie
"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I actually do think the FBI will recommend an indictment.
The national security breach is a big big deal. Of course guccifer has the goods. He just got a plea deal. Of course a foreign country has the goods. Her server was wide open for at least three months. We can't have a president that can be blackmailed by a foreign country. That's not good for the oligarchy.
Not just that.
I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that she could face obstruction of justice charges for deleting tens of thousands of e-mails. Also, this could very well wind up becoming a corruption case. We all know that her State Department did favors in exchange for Clinton Foundation donations. It's just a question of whether or not the FBI will be able to prove it. This thing is a long way from over but I think one thing is certain. It will sink any chance she has of beating Trump if the superdelegates are stupid enough to go down with this sinking ship.
I agree, corruption and obstruction of justice and/or perjury
are the real technicalities that could be the wild cards here
Agreed
The perjury angle explains why Mills, Abedin and Clinton have the same lawyer. With the same lawyer, they can look at what the FBI threw at each one in a conference room.
One angle is to not ask certain questions of Mills and Abedin (say as a result of Pagliano's plea deal), then ask Clinton new questions (based on Pagliano testimony), then circle back to Mills and Abedin.
There might be multiple depositions of the same person(s). Generally speaking, people make unforced errors in depositions when they're lying, because they lay the lies on too thick.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." de Saint-Exupery
the bush administration
had no problem with corruption or obstruction of justice and rode off into the sunset laughing their asses off and collecting their payola for their acts of treason .... has something changed that I did not hear about?
The Bush administration
didn't expose this country's secrets to anybody with a modicum of digital skill, including foreign countries. This country's secrets include the secrets of this country's rich and powerful men.
It all depends on how much nationalism and national power still matters--and how much "our" oligarchs and security state are in competition with other nations' oligarchs and security states.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Nice perspective
"... and how much "our" oligarchs and security state are in competition with other nations' oligarchs and security states."
Like the (R) & (D) charade (while US is really about 1% v 99% and both R & D are pure 1%) the emails are about US oligarchs v. every other oligarch, who the security state serve.
The most obvious outcome is if Hillary is Pres. on day one Putin, through some "mysterious" hacker, releases all HRC emails -- personal, work related, Top Secret, sexual, Hillary's and Bill's and the missing Pagliano emails, everything ... And the next day China says, "oops, you missed some" and releases even more, with explicit photos ...
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