The "Well, Colin Powell Did It Too" Defense
First of all, it's a pathetic defense. It ranks up there with "He started it" and "It seemed like a good idea at the time."
Secondly, it just adds to an already weighty impression of arrogance and privilege.
Thirdly, and most importantly, it isn't true.
As the report makes very clear, there are substantial differences between what Powell did and what Clinton did:Powell says he set up a private e-mail account, in addition to his internal account, because at the time, the State Department “email system in place only only permitted communication among Department staff. He therefore requested that information technology staff install the private line so that he could use his personal account to communicate with people outside the Department.” This is a quite plausible reason that, around the turn of the millennium, a secretary of state would have wanted to use his own account. Powell seems not to have done enough to ensure that those records were maintained, which is a problem (though it’s not clear that he was aware that he should have turned those e-mails over). However, as far as I can tell, the most plausible explanation of Clinton’s behavior is that she set up her e-mail server for the express purpose of keeping those e-mails from being archived as records (and subject to Freedom of Information Act requests), which is a great deal more problematic than setting up an inadequately archived e-mail system because there’s no other way to use an increasingly vital communications technology.
Powell had an outside line set up in his office, into which he plugged a laptop, which he used alongside his State Department computer. The IT department was, in other words, aware that this was going on, and it seems to have come up in discussions of his drive to get everyone at State access to the Internet at their desk. While the quality of information about Powell’s Internet usage is not as high as it is about Clinton’s (after 10 years, memories fade, people become hard to contact, and records degrade), there’s no indication that he was less than transparent with staff. On the other hand, it’s quite clear that folks at State had no idea what was going on with Clinton’s e-mail server, and troublingly, at least two people who asked questions about it were apparently told to shut up and never raise the subject again.
Three things have changed pretty dramatically since Powell’s day: the magnitude (and appreciation) of cybersecurity threats; the quality of the State Department systems; and the government rules surrounding both recordkeeping and cybersecurity. One can argue that Powell should not have used a private computer during his tenure, but he seems to have done so in consultation with the IT folks, at a time when the policy surrounding these things was “very fluid” and the State Department “was not aware of the magnitude of the security risks associated with information technology.” By 2009, the magnitude of the risks was clear, and the policy was also much clearer. As far as the OIG could determine, Clinton took no action to ensure that she was in compliance with that policy, which, in fact, she emphatically was not. Officials at State told the OIG in no uncertain terms that they would not have approved her reliance on a personal e-mail server.
The OIG found only three instances in which State employees had relied exclusively on personal e-mail: Powell, Clinton and Ambassador J. Scott Gration, the U.S. emissary to Kenya from 2011 to 2012. Gration, who served under Clinton, was in the middle of a disciplinary process initiated against him for this e-mail use (among other things) when he resigned. So it is not only impossible to argue that this was somehow in compliance with State’s guidelines, but also impossible to argue that Clinton might have thought it was in compliance with requirements, unless she somehow failed to notice when or why her ambassador to Kenya went missing.
The OIG found evidence that the server was attacked, and that Clinton’s staff members (and presumably Clinton herself) were aware of it (Clinton at one point seems to have expressed concern that people might be trying to hack her email). These incidents should have been reported to computer security personnel, but OIG found no evidence that they were. Clinton’s supporters have offered the wan defense that “attacked” doesn’t mean “actually hacked,” but of course, since they didn’t report it, there was no timely investigation, so we don’t really know what happened, or even whether her server setup and/or server administrator were sophisticated enough to detect a penetration if one had taken place.
This is the most profoundly amazing part of the whole story: Clinton’s server administrator was hired by State as a political appointee, from which position he continued to provide support to Clinton’s private e-mail server during working hours, without telling anyone this was happening:
The DCIO and CIO, who prepared and approved the Senior Advisor’s annual evaluations, believed that the Senior Advisor’s job functions were limited to supporting mobile computing issues across the entire Department. They told OIG that while they were aware that the Senior Advisor had provided IT support to the Clinton Presidential campaign, they did not know he was providing ongoing support to the Secretary’s email system during working hours. They also told OIG that they questioned whether he could support a private client during work hours, given his capacity as a full-time government employee.
Clinton apparently paid him for the work, but it is basically impossible to believe that she didn’t know this was happening (if her e-mail malfunctioned during the workday, did she expect to wait until 8 or 9 that night for it to come back up?) or that she thought it was okay to hire your private server administrator as a political appointee (a diplomatic political appointee in the IT department?) and then have him keep an eye on your private server from his government office. This has an unpleasant whiff of Tammany Hall about it.
Comments
Obama bombs the Middle East. Ok 'cause Bush did
same argument. So why did we oppose Bush, Cheney, Powell? Because they didn't have a "D" after their names? I do believe that if Bush were eligible to run again and if he ran as a Democrat there would be lots of Dems supporting him.
Of course it's all about Team Red v Team Blue!
Root, root, root for the Home Team!
If they don't win it's a shame ...
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Hillary, Hillary, she's our gal...
If she can't do it... GREAT!
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Sh*t, if the reincarnation of
St Ronnie were to run as a Democrat, TOP would embrace him wholeheartedly.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
They have already embraced...
...far right wing scumbag Patrick Murphy as somehow being a "real" Democrat, while simultaneously branding Bernie Sanders, who has caucused and voted with Democrats for 40 years, "not a real" Democrat...
I want my two dollars!
And there are resolutions coming up through the state convention
to keep a future 'non-democrat' such as Bernie from being able to run on the Dem ticket.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
In which case,
The Democratic Party is making itself Irrelevant.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
If Trump had run in the Democratic primary
His picture would be all over their front page. Oh wait ...
exactly.
i remember when Obama said we should turn the page on BushCo. there were so many early tells... and now they're trying to paint him like some kind of progressive wounded warrior.
it makes me so angry.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Another point Clinton supporters don't get
Powell used a private email account . Clinton had a private email server.
IIRC Powell used an AOL email account, but it's not like he could go in and access AOL's server and "wipe it clean."
Clinton's server was truly private in that she could (and did) go in and "wipe it clean."
Very correct.
YUUUUUGE difference!
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
So either the report is a whitewash or
the news coverage is. Because there's a HUGE difference between "using your own email account" and "having your own email server"!
I'd expect the news coverage to be bad, but does the report really say "the others did it too"? Because that's a LIE. Full stop.
The news coverage has done OK with this
for the news media anyway.
It's the bullsh*t meme on TOP I was referring to.
So is "media" actually not making that conflation?
It truly no longer comes into our home, I can't even stand to listen to it, so I don't know. I would expect that at GOS, though--no surprise there
I was just worried the actual report tried to do that, too. That would not only be nuts, it would be more than a little frightening...
they don't want to hear it or acknowledge the distinction
and they don't grasp yet that this was a polite beginning ... to an uncomfortable 2nd act: the FBI and they are the ones looking at the private server and for connections between Clinton Foundation and pay-to-play.
the IG report was about adhering to SOPs and Best Practice and it leads to the next step... because they'd have to validate that what Clinton did was indeed against State Dept regulations in order to go after the server.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks
TYT had a discussion of this which was very good. Unfortunately, I can't locate a link - sorry. He pointed out that there is a huge difference between having an outside email account and having your own server. So, no, "Everybody does it" is not true. I really hope this is leading into an in-depth investigation of the Clinton Foundation...
Is this the one that you meant?
IMO, Hillary set this up so that the people working at the Clinton foundation could also have access to the emails. Remember that Huma Abedin was on staff on both the state department and the Clinton foundation.
Was she vetted to work at the state department?
I know that Bluementhal wasn't vetted to receive classified information, yet he both sent and received them when he was doing something in Libya and would send Hillary emails about some business deals he thought would be beneficial for the foundation. He also outed an undercover CIA agent.
He needs to be interrogated too.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/281208-clinton-didnt-want-em...
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
It's all about the (in)famous
"both sides do it", who cares, 0burger defense.
TOP is going ballistically paranoid and flagging all and sundry who darest think otherwise.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
I'm just waiting till they start...
defending the "Just Following Orders" defense.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
morality is some kind of hippie leftist #%$
policies don't matter, issues don't matter, power is the only thing that matters. Only hippie leftists object to that.
I Object!
Once upon a time there Were Three Ponies, named Morality, Principle, and Purity.
While trotting along the road of life, they met a dirty hippie riding an ugly, stubborn mule named Ethics.
Ethics got along with the ponies well enough, and ponies and hippies are like peas in a pod. So the hippie decided to travel with the ponies. The hippie grew quite fond of them.
Along the way they met a politician on a donkey...
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
(should have noted that I was paraphrasing)
(putting it all in parentheses to indicate whispering...I shouldn't even mention brooklynbadboy but apparently he thinks Bernie's stance on the issues is...well, what I said)
This is the election where the Democrats revealed themselves
to be just as morally hollow as Republicans. As I've repeatedly commented, they were completely willing to sacrifice the concepts of transparency in government, legitimate Congressional oversight, and the FOIA because their candidate crapped all over all of that.
It's a seminal moment in modern American politics because it's the moment that Disappointment and Disillusionment in the Democratic Party by progressives has become DISGUST with the Democratic Party. I think it's like the point in a bad marriage when someone realizes that divorce is the only solution.
As to your metaphor - the Democrats sold their High Horse to the dogfood factory.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
The similarity is striking.
My ex pulled some shit and I reconciled in hopes of maintaining the family structure. Then, she again goes off the rails and issues the ultimatum.
- And I agreed with her and said I was done.
- Her next words trying to salvage the situation were useless, and still muddied with threats, and attempted manipulations.
The Democrats issued their ultimatums too. Big Pants and Big Skirts Democrats, Little boy blog owning Democrats. These democrats looked down their noses at everyone else and pretended they were the adults int he room. Turns out, they were just playing pretend too. Their 'friends' may be off their meds, but the Democrats don't understand their particular flavor of addiction either.
Right now we're at the stage 'we' (the people, the voters, the commoners) need to realize how much we need them, and then they'll take us back, but whoa buddy we better keep ourselves in check. Another stage or two, maybe several, and they'll be upset because 'we abandoned them'.
Blame and Shame, and Criticism, and Guilt Tripping, as well as more punishment are forthcoming - from spoiled oligarchs who'll make damn sure the commoners 'respect them' no matter who wins the popularity contest this time around.
The suffering of 'we' 'the commoners' will continue to be inflicted until our morale improves and respect is given. And then more suffering to ensure morale remains high. And we better not even think of complaining after that!
The Nobles expect respect and ail punish any who do not give it.
And this time, they're gonna learn
much like your ex did (hopefully, she learned, anyway), that this time, there was no going back.
Like you say in your sig--oh, how apt:
I don't give a shit if they feel abandoned or not. They left me a long time ago, and they never gave a shit about that. So to Hell with them.
That's the excuse that they use
When they defend her giving the 45 speeches about how the TPP set the gold standard for trade agreements.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
I keep seeing this scene in my head...
with regards to the reaction of Hillary supporters when she finally is brought down...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOE6ECDXSIg]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
this tells a tale:
http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-email-terrorism-philippines-thai...
As well, timing being odd (not?)
Obama did not appoint a Department of State IG until Sept, 2013. The position remained vacant after Jan 2008. So there was a leaderless oversight group during Clinton's tenure. Thanks, Obama.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
The report itself says that email protocols were looser
and more fluid during Powell's tenure and that usage policies were nowhere near as fleshed out as they were during Clinton's term. Anyone who was in any business knows that was pretty much the case everywhere. Nowadays, there are very clear delineations between work and personal email and we all know what NSFW means as well as preservation of work product, etc.
IMO the report makes clear that the entire point of the personal server was to make virtually all of her communications inaccessible. I also find it notable that once Hillary and her flunkies were out of office, the Kerry staff was actually attempting to comply with Congressional oversight and to be responsive to requests for relevant information which is how the whole thing blew up in the first place. We now know that Clinton and her staff were OBSTRUCTING legitimate requests for information the entire time she was in office - consciously.
That's why from the first day this stuff broke, I personally felt Hillary had proven herself unsuited to high office because of her personal lack of transparency and accountability. That was way before all the National Security risks were even part of the picture.
Hillary attempting to cower under the "Colin Powell Did It Too!" umbrella is nothing but pathetic.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
"Stop lying"
MSNBC turns on Hillary
This is exactly why
the server administrator sought--and got--immunity. IMO, you could even bet on that and win:
There is no way anyone should be expected to believe such a thing is reasonable, let alone that it falls within any previously-existing protocol for IT anywhere in this government.
It is also completely ridiculous that this is still in the "talking" phase--when does Her drop out of this race? It would be criminal negligence for any "party leadership" to allow this joke of a campaign to continue.