06/02 Open Thread - The Vandals Sacked Rome

So, the Vandals sacked Rome, the city, on June 2, 455. They were led by a dude named Genseric, or Gaiseric, or something like that depending upon what you last read. This was obviously a big deal to the citizens and other inhabitants of Rome, the city, but maybe not so much The Roman Empire. For starts, by this time there was a Western Roman Empire and an Eastern Roman Empire, each with their own government and ruler. Allegedly still one big sloppy empire, it was beginning to teeter a bit, especially the Western branch, if it were not already doddering. Rome, the city, was, of course, in the Western chunk of the realm. Rome, the city, was at this time, not only not the capitol of the Empire, it wasn't even really the capitol of the Western Empire. The capitol had been moved to Ravenna in 402 and the administrative center stayed there, though some sources say that "the court", whatever that was, returned to Rome in 450 for a while.
This was not a first,. Alaric and the Visigoths sacked Rome, the city, in August of 410. This second sacking was something of a punishmenet raid for a treaty violation. The Western Roman Empire had entered into a multifaceted treaty with the Vandals which included a marriage alliance whereby the emperor's daughter was to marry a Vandal named Huneric. However, a Roman usurper snuffed the emperor and, in an effort to legitimize his takeover, married the late emperor's widow and married off said late emperor's daughter to his own son. This pissed off the aforementioned widow sufficiently that she conspired with the Vandals to treat the marriage of the daughter to the usurper's kid instead of to Huneric as a treaty violation, which it clearly was. Genseric accordingly took up the cudgel gathered a large force and sailed from Carthage, of all places, to sack Rome, the city and return to Carthage with loot and slaves. The usurper tried to escape but was snuffed by his own people who caught him trying to run away. ROME, The Western Roman Empire, only lasted about another 21 years, however the allure of the name lasted far longer, in the form of The Holy Roman Empire, initially a bunch of Franks somehow using authority delegated from Byzantium and which evolved into an empire that was neither holy nor Roman.
For the Record, Carthage, the city, as in Carthago delenda est was destroyed in 146 BCE at the end of the Third Punic War. After a 3 year siege the Romans broke through the defenses, destroyed the town, killed all the inhabitants except 50,000 who they took back to Rome to be slaves, and salted the earth so that nothing could ever grow there again. That's what they thought.
On this day in 1692, one Bridget Bishop was tried for witchcraft in Salem. She was the first victim of Salem's irrational witch mania. The trial, called an "Examination", consisted of people making unsubstantiated and generally unverifiable accusations against and irrational assertions about her. In those days, as so often today, that was enough to establish something as true and she was therefore convicted and hanged. As we slide deeper and deeper into the swamp of an evidence free society we should think back upon those times and try, for once, to learn something from history.
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On this day in 1924, U.S. President Calvin Coolidge signed the Indian Citizenship Act into law, granting citizenship to all Native Americans born within the territorial limits of the United States. That was certainly a kind and generous act on his part. /S (sad to think that some sort of snark tag is needed these days)
On this day in history:
455 – Vandals entered Rome and plundered the city for two weeks. **
1608 – The Colony of Virginia received a charter extending its borders from "sea to sea"
1692 – Bridget Bishop was tried for and convicted of witchcraft in Salem, Massachusetts; the first of many
1763 – Chippewas captured Fort Michilimackinac by drawing the garrison's attention to a game of lacrosse and then chasing a ball into the fort.
1774 – The Quartering Act of 1774 was enacted, allowing governors in colonial America to house British soldiers
1793 – François Hanriot arrested 22 Girondists selected by Jean-Paul Marat, setting the stage for the Reign of Terror.
1896 – Guglielmo Marconi applied for a patent for his wireless telegraph.
1910 – Charles Rolls, became the first man to make a non-stop double crossing of the English Channel by plane.
1919 – Anarchists set off bombs in eight separate U.S. cities, triggering the first "Red Scare" because Anarchists = Communists = Socialists. Hello?
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1924 – U.S. President Calvin Coolidge signed the Indian Citizenship Act into law, granting citizenship to all Native Americans born within the territorial limits of the United States.
1946 – In a referendum, Italians voted to turn Italy from a monarchy into a republic.
1953 – The coronation of Queen Elizabeth II at Westminster Abbey was the first British coronation to be televised.
1964 – The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed.
1966 – Surveyor 1 landed in Oceanus Procellarum on the Moon, becoming the first U.S. spacecraft to soft-land on another world.
1990 – The Lower Ohio Valley tornado outbreak spawned 66 confirmed tornadoes in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio
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2003 – Europe launched its first voyage to another planet, Mars, from Kazakhstan. Central Asia = Europe? Who Knew?
** They did not, however, take any pump handles
Some people who were born on this day:
If any of you happens to see an injustice, you are no longer a spectator, you are a participant, and you have an obligation to do something.
~~ June Callwood
1644 – William Salmon, medical writer
1740 – Marquis de Sade, philosopher, author and politician (of course)
1743 – Alessandro Cagliostro, occultist and explorer
1840 – Thomas Hardy, novelist and poet
1840 – Émile Munier, artist
1857 – Edward Elgar, composer and educator
1857 – Karl Adolph Gjellerup, author and poet
1863 – Felix Weingartner, pianist, composer, and conductor
1865 – Adelaide Casely-Hayford, advocate and activist for cultural nationalism
1878 – Wallace Hartley, violinist and bandleader, played nearer my god to thee at midnight on the sea
1907 – Dorothy West, journalist and author
1907 – John Lehmann, poet and publisher
1913 – Barbara Pym, author
1921 – Ernie Royal, trumpet player
1923 – Lloyd Shapley, mathematician and economist
1924 – June Callwood, journalist, author, and activist
1934 – Johnny Carter, singer
1935 – Carol Shields, novelist and short story writer
1937 – Jimmy Jones, singer and songwriter
1939 – Charles Miller, musician
1941 – Irène Schweizer, jazz pianist
1941 – Charlie Watts, drummer, songwriter, and producer
1944 – Marvin Hamlisch, composer and conductor
1949 – Heather Couper, astronomer and physicist
1951 – Gilbert Baker, artist, gay rights activist, and designer of the rainbow flag
1953 – Vidar Johansen, saxophonist
1953 – Cornel West, philosopher, author, and academic
1955 – Michael Steele, singer, songwriter, and bass player
1959 – Lydia Lunch, singer, songwriter, guitarist, and actress
1960 – Tony Hadley, singer, songwriter, and actor
1961 – Dez Cadena, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1966 – Candace Gingrich, activist
1966 – Pedro Guerra, singer and songwriter
1968 – Merril Bainbridge, singer and songwriter
1976 – Tim Rice-Oxley, singer, songwriter, and keyboard player
1979 – Butterfly Boucher, singer, songwriter, guitarist, and producer
1980 – Fabrizio Moretti, drummer
1980 – Tomasz Wróblewski, bass player, and songwriter
1987 – Matthew Koma, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1996 – Morissette, Filipina singer and songwriter
Some people who died on this day:
The priest is the personification of falsehood.
~~ Giuseppe Garibaldi
1701 – Madeleine de Scudéry, author
1785 – Jean Paul de Gua de Malves, mathematician and academic
1882 – Giuseppe Garibaldi, general and politician
1937 – Louis Vierne, organist and composer
1942 – Bunny Berigan, singer and trumpet player
1962 – Vita Sackville-West, author and poet
1967 – Benno Ohnesorg, student and activist, also martyr
1968 – André Mathieu, pianist and composer
1970 – Lucía Sánchez Saornil, anarchist feminist
1983 – Stan Rogers, Canadian, singer and songwriter
1987 – Sammy Kaye, bandleader and songwriter
1987 – Andrés Segovia, guitarist
1997 – Doc Cheatham, trumpet player, singer, and bandleader
1999 – Junior Braithwaite, singer
2000 – Gerald James Whitrow, mathematician, cosmologist, and historian
2008 – Bo Diddley, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
2013 – Mandawuy Yunupingu, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
Some Holidays, Holy Days, Festivals, Feast Days, Days of Recognition, and such:
American Indian Citizenship Day
National Rotisserie Chicken Day
International Sex Workers Day
Today's Tunes
The (Second) Sack of Rome (the city)
Bridgit Bishop
Edward Elgar
Ernie Royal
Johnny Carter
Jimmy Jones
Charles Miller
Charlie Watts
Marvin Hamlisch
Michael Steele
Pedro Guerra
Bunny Berigan
André Mathieu
Sammy Kaye
Andrés Segovia
Doc Cheatham
Junior Braithwaite
Bo Diddley
Mandawuy Yunupingu
Some bonus dancing music:
Ok, it's an open thread, so it's up to you folks now. What's on your mind?
Cross posted from http://caucus99percent.com
open thread. The Vandals, Sack of Rome, Bridget Bishop, Thomas Hardy, Charlie Watts, Andrés Segovia, Bo Diddley

Comments
Tomorrow: the Day
Amazing musical line up EL! I should know more about Roman history, thanks for the summary of Roman decline. I watched some Korean documentary last week on the discovery of a sixth century, gold and lapis inlaid sword and scabbard discovered in a Silla monarch's gravesite. There are theories about the southwest Asian design. One of those theories traced the design to the Romanian Bulgarian region. The original design motif was felt to be Celtic, which I don't quite understand. In any case the course of commerce and conquest throughout this period is very murky to me. I suppose archaeologists are the most informed about it. Many of the early Silla kingdom's glass designs appear to be based on ancient Roman glasswork.
This is what's on my mind as usual, the Korean presidential election tomorrow. The new presidential term will start immediately with no transition period once the vote is counted. This link here is only for the Guardian picture which shows the over the top security measures to protect Lee Jae-myung from assassination:
As South Korea heads to the polls, can Lee Jae-myung bring the country back from the brink?
Simone Chun had a good summary of the situation in S.Korea right now, and the role of the US meddling in South Korean affairs and the election itself:
Western Media Fails June 3 Korean Election: Oversimplified, Superficial, and Distorted Coverage
I recommend the entire article by Simone Chun, the excerpt isn't enough.
Thanks for the open thread EL!
語必忠信 行必正直
Good morning Soryang, glad you liked the tunes.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Good morning...
Empires come but eventually go. Rome hiccuped several times before falling, or did it become the Catholic Church?
Thanks for the history lesson. Hope all is well on the Left Coast!
Take care and thanks for the OT.
Found Alastair's take interesting this AM
(24 min)
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Analysis by Alistair is good
But one problem imo is that the video marked "FAILSAFE" is not authenticated. Col. Davis had this FAILSAFE video running as well. Isn't FAILSAFE some kind of computer program? I've seen many authentic Tu-95 photos but I never saw those black things on the wings whatever they are. Does anyone have any idea what they are?
語必忠信 行必正直
Those appear
to be old tires. Whey they are arranged along the wings like that is completely unclear- that makes no sense, unless perhaps they were used to hold tarps againt the wind to reduce the weathering process for aircraft that have been mothballed. It is somewhat reminiscent of the B-52s at Davis-Monthan that have been chopped up into pieces, as required by treaty, and then simply left like that for the Russian (and now Chinese) satellites to see.
And on edit- they are indeed tires. And if the linked article is to be believed, they have apparently been used in that manner throughout the SMO, in an effort to confuse automated image recognition of the aircraft. They might also help minimize shrapnel damage in the case of a near-miss, or a hit with smaller drone-borne weapons. It pretty clearly doesn't work with human-guided FPV drones, though.
https://www.businessinsider.com/covering-aircraft-with-tires-like-russia...
The "failsafe" notation is interesting as well. Failsafe, in its original usage for the Air Force, was part of a philosophy that attempted to prevent accidental engagements: the Chrome Dome airborne alert B-52s would fly racetrack holding patterns at their fail-safe points well short of Soviet airspace, so that if something went wrong, their only action was to return to base. It took a multilevel positive control mechanism to release them onto their actual attack routes to drop ordnance, which thankfully never occurred.
In college, I once calculated the approximate number of barrels of oil we burned to keep the BUFFs aloft during the Chrome Dome 24x7 airborne alert years. It was absolutely eyewatering. But then, when you also added the number a barrels of oil we burned to make all the concrete and rebar for 70 years of cold-war installations that were pretty much immediately abandoned, or to build the National Defense Highway system (which, of course, we still use today- it's called the Interstate system, and it is now abandoned-in-place and full of potholes....), you realize that we have never given even a moment's thought as to what resources we were squandering.
There are a lot of things about those videos that give me pause. But the fact of the matter remains that we have now, through our Ukranian proxy, directly attacked one leg of the Russian strategic arms triad, even if those Bears were in fact mothballed.
That is not an action any sane individual would advocate, under any circumstance that I can imagine. What happens next is anyone's guess, but I suspect that it will be nasty, brutish, and short.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Yes, UFS, thanks for the info
I think I saw a reference to Murmansk as being one of the bases in the Col Davis video. Striking the strategic bomber bases is definitely off limits. It's outrageous and stupid beyond belief.
I vaguely recall the failsafe significance from Ellsberg's book, which filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge about these plans. In my mind, the most lasting reference is the popular one from the novel Failsafe which if I recall correctly is about a failsafe failure, and about an arrangement made to impose a self inflicted nuclear attack at home, to compensate Russia for the mistaken US nuclear attack on them. It was conceived as a means to block a wider nuclear war which basically would kill everyone.
So when I think about Failsafe now, shouldn't there be at least a US secret offer to Russia, to remove Elensky and his coterie, along with other moves to block any further escalation in the conflict. I know this will never happen. It's just an intriguing hypothetical. I feel as if Israel could put us in a similar "failsafe" dilemma.
The immense consumption of fuel by the US military is a matter of concern. I think the US is the largest consumer of fossil fuels in the world. Military airfields are contaminated with the associated firefighting chemical. Every time an aircraft comes in to land with defective gear or belly up, they spray that foam everywhere. There is an FAA/DoD program to transition to Flourine Free Foam F3. I don't know if they fully transitioned yet.
edit typo
語必忠信 行必正直
The AFFF is one
of the reasons that it took so much effort to clean and restore my Stick. Since we lived just off the end of a very active runway (and still do- just a block or two away, and we're now even closer to the threshold), it was actually the control tower that called in our house fire to the FD. And since they didn't know if the fire was caused by a plane crash, they responded the crash trucks with the foam anyway. So everything in the house that wasn't destroyed outright was filled and utterly saturated with that stuff.
It is quite unpleasant to clean off the residue, in the case of the little that we could salvage. And perhaps that is the reason that I have this new tentacle growing out from behind my left ear... (;-)
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
OMG
I guess that's in the thanks for your help category. I'm sorry you had that experience.
語必忠信 行必正直
Good morning lookout, thanks for the clip.
Yes, in a sense, Rome spawned or merged into the Catholic Church.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Yes it appears that the nuclear treaties will all be dead.
"It's time for a revolution, but probably not in the terms that people imagine it" -- Frank Zappa
Woke up "not dead"
again this morning. I don't expect that happy circumstance to persist much longer.
In happier news, I will now be happily spending money I don't have on therapy to happily convince me that this is all okay and just fine and a perfectly normal part of happy modern existence. First appointment is tomorrow. That will be amusing- can't *wait* to see if they really think that talk will do it, or if they just need to throw my happy little ass into a rubber room until the balloon goes up.
My supply of sanity is, at long last, at its bitter, bitter end. Happy happy joy joy.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Good morning UFS. Good luck with the shrinkage.
Thanks mucho for happy happy joy joy, I require regular doses of either that or don't worry, be happy to keep me going, because I an a fan of the silly and the absurd. On the other hand, now and then I get in a less sarcastic mood and then I go numeric:
be well and have a good one.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I always liked this tune
I haven't heard it in a year or more. I had no idea it was so popular.
語必忠信 行必正直
He (Smirkula) wasn't the only one carrying out this mission!
Grat picture, thanks. Thanks for the Blumenthal too.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Well, something is about to be sacked.
Here's Larry Wilkerson explaining how the West's one real remaining option is nuclear war. We might glow in some interesting-looking way, if it's the last thing we do.
"It's time for a revolution, but probably not in the terms that people imagine it" -- Frank Zappa
Thanks, Cass. "We will all glow together
when we glow, all suffused in an incandescent glow ..." - Tom Lehrer
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
My problem with Nima is that his guests
drop bombshell statements and he just moves on to his next question. I’d like to see some discussion back and forth instead of just throwing questions out.
Larry thinks it’s possible that Russia nukes a European country and Nima went to his next question. For gawd’s sake….discuss it!
And it’s Groundhog Day on the judge’s show all week every week. I dunno maybe I should take a break from watching the same people saying the same things over and over.
The message echoes from Gaza back to the US. “Starving people is fine.”
Been waiting for Cap'n Q to post some QMS, but no luck.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Thanks for the Quicksilver EL
.
Haven't heard this one in a long time!
Zionism is a social disease
Good afternoon, El, et. al.
This was not the quiet Monday I was expecting. I did listen to some tunes, thank you very much.
I haven't heard a thing about the peace talks in Istanbul, other than they have concluded.
We shall see.
Thanks for the OT, dear friend!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The bit I heard mentioned the RF
.
proposed a temporary pause
to allow the Ukies to gather up their
corpses. Guess they are stinking-up
the battlefields.
Zionism is a social disease
Here's a pretty good overview
of the current state of play, at least with respect to chaos. Don't know if anybody here is a fan of Kunstler, but there is some good material to ponder in this writing. The Molotov Cocktail attack up in Boulder has a lot of people up in arms locally here, with the perp having very effectively rendered any criticism of Israel whatsoever even more offlimits...
https://archive.ph/0N7Xp
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
The Boulder guy
Oh, wait...
I did read there will be a huge prisoner of war swap in the Ukie SMO.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Yup.
Funny, that. Very funny... So very funny.
I've never been a conspiracy theorist, but that little action is just too perfectly timed and sited: in the middle of a bluer-than-blue, very liberal spot, but not one that is considered to be a "traditional" Jewish area, other than the presence of the university. Faugh.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Hi all, Hey EL!
Hi all, Hey EL!
Hope all is well!
Thanks for the history and sounds!
Segovia or Montoya? That is the question.
I have not watched all the vid below but first quarter was good.
Whooda thunk this guy would grow up to look like Mr. Natural?
I loved his comment on Lysergic, and abstract impressionism like Jackson Pollack. I lived with a Masters in Fine Art for a few years. They scoffed at Comic and animation artists. I hope she sees this...
LOL
Spring migration is over here for more than a week now no migrants. Some few fledlings around, but broods are small, again, due to lack of food from the drought. A Cardinal nest right outside kitchen window was first parasitized by cowbirds, then the whole thing predated.
A Noyo pelagic trip I think last weekend had what will probably turn out to be the first CA record of a Herald Petrel only 8 miles offshore. A new wing-runner (Pterodroma sps.) for the state.
Thanks for the OT EL!
Happy trails all!
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein
Hola Dysto, didn't get back here late yesterday, sorry.
I won't get into the segovia v montoya fracas, can't plead the fifth so I'll plead Duane Eddy.
Thanks for the You tube. Thanks for the bird info too. Some mean water up Noyo way, but had my first taste of Black Gill up there.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --