He Will March. On a Road Of Bones.

Submitted by hecate on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 1:27am

putin horse_0.jpg
i ride an old paint
i lead an old dam
i’m goin' to montany
to throw a houlihan

European unity is fraying some. French President Emmanuel Macron has been recurrently fielding phone calls from Vlad, listening to him froth and foam, trying to convince him to be sane and decent. Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has decided he doesn’t like this, and so Monday at a press conference he demanded: "Mr. President Macron, how many times have you negotiated with Putin? What have you achieved? Have you stopped any of the actions that have taken place? One should not negotiate with criminals, one should fight them. Nobody negotiated with Hitler. Would you negotiate with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot?”

This caused Macron to have a Gallic explosion: Wednesday, he went to the newspapers, to condemn Morawiecki as “an extreme-right anti-semite who bans LGBT people.” And then, Friday morning, the French ambassador to Poland, was summoned to the Polish foreign ministry, there to receive an ass-chewing.

None of this is helpful. While Vlad rampages, people do not need to be distracted by calling each other Hitler-enabler, or Hitler-adjacent. Too, Morawiecki, when asking “would you negotiate with Stalin?,” might want to recall that Stalin, Churchill, and Roosevelt, they all held hands, for about four years there, while combining to run Adolf & Co., to earth. Sometimes. These things. Happen.

Germany is meanwhile balking at abruptly cutting off its gas and oil imports from Russia. It says it needs more time. Which is causing people in nations like Greece and Portugal to mock the Germans with the phrase “faster is better.” Which is what Germany told those people when they were struggling with debt, Germany demanding the imposition of drastic “austerity measures,” rather than allow more time to pare down the debt.

It is true that Germany was then Mean. But rather than laugh and call the Germans names, it seems more useful to get to work on this new proposed “energy pool,” in which all the nations of Europe would combine their energy resources, and allocate them as needed. So if you were in, say, France, and you had plenty of energy to heat your house, people ten miles away wouldn’t have to toss the furniture into the fireplace, to keep warm, just because they were across some “border” that said they were in Germany. Humans in most European nations can these days freely travel from place to place, without the bother of visas and such; same, should be true, of energy.

Russia yesterday fired what it initially claimed were “high-precision rockets” on a railway station in Kramatorsk, and at first was very proud of this, bragging, on state media, about extinguishing an ammunition train. But when it developed dozens of civilians had been killed, with hundreds more injured, that bragging was scrubbed, and now it is said this carnage was a “provocation,” staged by Ukraine.

This follows the familiar Vlad pattern. When, in Vlad’s first invasion of Ukraine, back in 2014, a Russian missile battery was rolled into Ukraine, which then shot down the civilian airliner MH17, Russian combatants like Igor Girkin initially bragged about it, thinking what had been felled was a military transport plane. But when it was determined it was a bunch of civilians that had been slaughtered, this bragging was withdrawn, and Vlad & Co. commenced pumping out a great cloud of squid ink, a blinding blizzard, of competing theories, as to What Really Happened—none of which, involved Russian complicity. This, is the Way, of Vlad. Peter Pomerantsev’s tome Nothing Is True And Everything Is Permitted is instructive on this. The Way of Vlad, is to pump out so many lies, the truth, it is wholly obscured; and so, bewildered, frustrated, people shrug, like Pilate, “what is truth?”; wash their hands; and then go on their way; a way, that does not disturb, Vlad.

The Vlad/tankie canard that “NATO made me do it,” that is the reason for the war on Ukraine, continues to be exposed as farcical, what with both Finland and Sweden, as well as Bosnia & Herzegovina, now clamoring to become NATO members. The effect of Vlad’s butchery in Ukraine, on NATO, is that now everybody, wants to be in it. Georgia and Moldavia want in, too; but, for a time, they have to be careful, saying only that they aspire to EU membership. This is because Vlad sits on their lands. In 2008, Vlad stole 20% of Georgia, in one of his many wars, and he wants all of it; he wants all of Moldavia too, but at present controls only Transnistria, a phony strip of non-nation squeezed between Moldavia and Ukraine.

The “I told you so” nations—Poland, and the Baltic states (Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia)—have, for the most part, been pretty good, about not saying “I told you so.” These are the peoples who, directly after the Soviet ass no longer sprawled on their faces, clamored to be admitted to NATO, and at once. This is because they had been rhythmically overrun by Russians, and for hundreds of years, and they were not convinced that whatever sort of Russia, replaced the USSR, would suddenly become sane and decent. For, it’s hard, to shake, the imperial, impulse. Russia, for centuries, has been about swallowing its neighbors—no matter who, might be the "tsar," and what the government, might call itself. See: for instance: today.

China’s been at it even longer, for thousands of years—most of what is now “China,” was once other nations, peoples. As today China advances the most clinically insane land claim in all the world: to near the entirety of the Sea of Cham. China just can’t keep itself out of other people’s homes and yards. For instance, over the millennia, China has invaded Vietnam, about a hundred times. Almost always it gets its ass kicked—most recently in 1979—but that doesn’t stop China from trying. Again, and again, and again. There is just something, about Vietnam, that makes China, want to invade it.

When you live across the street from somebody with a penchant for kicking down your door and pouring in to try to take over the place, you tend to want to be able to quickly summon the police. Just. The way. It is.

Orwell, correctly, prophesied there would be three great superstates—Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia. All. Run. By rat bastards. That's, where we are, now. Tankies, they will stick, needles through their eyes, rather, than admit, that anyone, other than Oceania, is guilty, of anything.

Anathema.

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he will march on a road of bones

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Comments

Submitted by hecate on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 2:16am

here,

for instance, wisdom.

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:15am

Just read this....

@hecate

It's good. Makes it pretty clear that we in the west think we know everything about everything and do not hesitate to pontificate on it when we actually know nothing about nothing. It's the POV of people we don't pay attention to.... you know, the people on the ground whose daily lives consist of air raid sirens and running for your life.

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:32am

A different perspective

@Fishtroller 02

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/twice-in-a-century-russia-faces-a-war-of-an...

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:58am

So all these countries were forced to join NATO?

@snoopydawg

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/is-poland-in-nato-full-list-nato-countrie...

Poor Russia. They had no choice but to attack Ukraine and bomb out every apartment building in the country.

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 10:10am

Didn’t read it then?

@Fishtroller 02

Okay here’s the summary. Imagine Russia overthrew Mexico’s president and started arming Al Qaeda who then started killing Americans living there. Just how long do you think our country would wait till it responded? Russia actually waited 8 years and kept trying to get Ukraine and other countries to uphold the Minsk agreement that they made back in 2015. If you can’t see this through an objective eye then I can’t help you.

All Biden had to say to keep this from happening was that Ukraine would not join NATO. There were many things we could have done to stop this from happening, but instead we are pouring weapons into Ukraine which yes dear are arming genuine Nazis. We’ve been supporting them since Obama and Biden and all the same fucking players today overthrew their president. That’s what you are supporting if you are fully behind Ukraine here. You are supporting some of the most evil people walking.

Me? I hate war. I want the world to grow the fck up and find peace. I’m not taking Russia’s side just to pre-empt you. But I understand why they went into Ukraine after Zelensky said that yes indeed he wants Ukraine to have nuclear weapons.

Unless you read that don’t bother responding.

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 6:51pm

Fantastic article!

@snoopydawg Thanks for that.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by janis b on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 2:20am

Well, well, well ... oh the gaul!

Here’s an even more ardent cowboy image from the same photo shoot …

The arrival of Europeans in Oceania was a tragedy that many are still trying to relieve themselves of.

It’s always good to read your writing and consider your perspective.

Submitted by hecate on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 3:04am

vlad

@janis b
is filth.

There is no, "perspective." Either you willingly, lovingly, eagerly, swallow vomit—"the Ukrainians shot down MH17, the Syrian opposition gassed themselves, Navalny collapsed because of medication he was taking, the GRU agents were in Salisbury to see the cathedrals, there are no Russian troops in Crimea or Donbas"— or, maybe, you are a human being.

Submitted by janis b on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 3:35am

perspective

@hecate

real-ationship is an ongoing human endeavour that hopefully puts all the bits in perspective.

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 4:19am

@janis b

@janis b @janis b
[video:https://youtu.be/2RkJ-vQ1ztU]

Submitted by janis b on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 11:14pm

Dare I ask

@hecate

the title of the video since it was unavailable to me.

Submitted by CB on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 3:16pm

There have been Russian troops in Crimea

@hecate
and Donbas since Catherine the Great conquered them in 1783 and they became part of the Russian Empire. Donbas only became part of Ukraine with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:18am

So your point is that the longest owners of areas they took

@CB

by force win the prize? You actually think Putin is in the right here. Glad you made that clear.

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by Lookout on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:34am

I do too

@Fishtroller 02

Remember the Cuban missile crisis. Well NATO has armed Ukraine and was setting up missiles on Russia's border. He was backed into a corner. I don't like any war, but if you don't understand that the US provoked this war (as usual) coming from very different places.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 10:03am

This is not the Cuban situation.

@Lookout

And we should ignore the stories of the Ukrainian people we see every night on TV?

If the US did provoke this war, then we should just walk away from Ukraine and acknowledge the Russia has a right to not only take that land but kill everyone within its borders?

Just what IS your solution?

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by Lookout on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 10:12am

to quit arming Ukraine and driving this war

@Fishtroller 02
What about the 14000 people of the donbass killed over the last 8 years by Ukraine. Guess they don't count?

What about what we're doing in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and we're currently provoking a coup in Pakistan because of its neutrality. The US needs to look in the mirror. We ARE the problem.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 10:15am

Just ignore the 14,000 Russians in the Donbas

@Fishtroller 02

that have been killed in the last 8 years by the Ukraine military which is full of Nazis. You are swimming upstream here. It’s one of those sites you said you had to flee. The Biden administration just admitted that they have been lying to us. Do you bother reading other’s comments here? It’s right there in the tweet I posted. They have been lying. It’s Saddam has WMDs all over again. And babies being thrown out of incubators.

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 10:35am

So you speak for everyone on this site.

@snoopydawg

"You are swimming upstream here. It’s one of those sites you said you had to flee."

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 11:02am

How selective you are

@Fishtroller 02

just ignore the main gist of a comment and make something up instead. You don’t debate what’s said but just throw out accusations. Well then keep supporting the Nazis and the murderous NATO agenda that is directly responsible for this situation. And keep believing the lies you are being told if that lets you have your righteousness anger at Russia Russia.

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 7:22pm

If you check the site FAQS

@Fishtroller 02 you will find no named "spokesperson".
Looking at the various recs for the essay and comments, seems Snoop is no more or less than in the majority of site members.
Putin drives many people mad. But my visit to Russia showed me he has the respect of his people. He is charged with protecting them, and he will.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 7:40pm

His approval rating was around 70% before

@on the cusp

this started and now it’s up to 80% because the Russian people see this as a direct attack on their country with all the sanctions. Meanwhile let’s look at Brandon's…

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:12pm

Russians were very proud

@snoopydawg of Putin, and his stand against instability, which Russians hate, and his devotion to keeping them safe.
I truly enjoyed my time there, hearing from locals, getting their opinions.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by CB on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 10:54am

It is obvious you have "drank the coolaid"

@Fishtroller 02

and you don't have a clue of what has been going on with Ukraine and Russia in the last 8 years. (I'll bet you also fell for the Iraq War, Libya War and Syrian War plus any of the dozens of wars/conflicts the US empire of conquest has been involved in since its inception.)

Russia Retaliates Against Kiev’s Aggression on Donbass

For nearly eight years since April 2014, US-orchestrated and directed aggression by proxy Kiev forces terrorized four million Donbass residents of Donetsk and Lugansk.

Late Wednesday, DPR and LPR heads Denis Pushilin and Leonid Pasechnik respectively “requested Russia’s military assistance in repelling Ukrainian aggression,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov explained, adding:

“Their appeals emphasize(d) that amid the deteriorating situation and threats from Kiev, the republics’ citizens are currently forced to flee their homes, and their evacuation to Russia is ongoing.”

“Amid the continuing military aggression by Ukraine’s Armed Forces, the republics are experiencing the destruction of civil and industrial infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and kindergartens, and worst of all, the deaths of the civilian population, including children.”

Their letter to Putin said “Kiev is continuing its military buildup along the line of disengagement, simultaneously receiving comprehensive support, including (in) military (form), from the US and other Western (regimes).”

Kiev “is determined to resolve the conflict by force.”

Peskov stressed that “(i)n view of the above” reality, DPR and LPR heads asked Vladimir Putin for “help in repelling the aggression of the Ukrainian armed forces and formations, in accordance with Articles 3 and 4 of the friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance treaties between Russia and the republics.”

Pre-dawn on February 24 — as permitted by the UN Charter’s Article 51 — Russia responded defensively to the request for military aid by Donbass by conducting a special military operation against Kiev’s military infrastructure.

Vladimir Putin explained the justification of Russia’s military operation as follows, saying:

“Its purpose is to protect the people who have for eight years been exposed to humiliation and genocide by the regime in Kiev.”

“For this we will seek demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, and also press for bringing to justice those who have committed numerous bloody crimes against peaceful civilians, including Russian citizens.”

Putin urged Ukraine’s military to “lay down (its) arms at once and leave for home,” adding:

“Those servicemen of the Ukrainian army who meet this demand will be free to leave the zone of combat operations and return to their families.”

Responsibility for continued bloodshed “will rest entirely on Ukraine’s ruling regime.”
...

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 11:09am

TL;dr

@CB

It’s Russia’s fault. With the view most Americans have regarding the conflict in Ukraine they would be okay with Russia doing regime change in Mexico and arming Al Qaeda to the teeth and just sit back whilst they kill and torture Americans living there. Seems they wouldn’t mind Russia also putting nuclear weapons there that could reach Washington in minutes. And if their military went in to overturn that danger they would take to the streets and demand that they stop killing AQ.

#2.1.2.1.1.1 and you don't have a clue of what has been going on with Ukraine and Russia in the last 8 years. (I'll bet you also fell for the Iraq War, Libya War and Syrian War plus any of the dozens of wars/conflicts the US empire of conquest has been involved in since its inception.) Russia Retaliates Against Kiev’s Aggression on Donbass For nearly eight years since April 2014, US-orchestrated and directed aggression by proxy Kiev forces terrorized four million Donbass residents of Donetsk and Lugansk. Late Wednesday, DPR and LPR heads Denis Pushilin and Leonid Pasechnik respectively “requested Russia’s military assistance in repelling Ukrainian aggression,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov explained, adding: “Their appeals emphasize(d) that amid the deteriorating situation and threats from Kiev, the republics’ citizens are currently forced to flee their homes, and their evacuation to Russia is ongoing.” “Amid the continuing military aggression by Ukraine’s Armed Forces, the republics are experiencing the destruction of civil and industrial infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and kindergartens, and worst of all, the deaths of the civilian population, including children.” Their letter to Putin said “Kiev is continuing its military buildup along the line of disengagement, simultaneously receiving comprehensive support, including (in) military (form), from the US and other Western (regimes).” Kiev “is determined to resolve the conflict by force.” Peskov stressed that “(i)n view of the above” reality, DPR and LPR heads asked Vladimir Putin for “help in repelling the aggression of the Ukrainian armed forces and formations, in accordance with Articles 3 and 4 of the friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance treaties between Russia and the republics.” Pre-dawn on February 24 — as permitted by the UN Charter’s Article 51 — Russia responded defensively to the request for military aid by Donbass by conducting a special military operation against Kiev’s military infrastructure. Vladimir Putin explained the justification of Russia’s military operation as follows, saying: “Its purpose is to protect the people who have for eight years been exposed to humiliation and genocide by the regime in Kiev.” “For this we will seek demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, and also press for bringing to justice those who have committed numerous bloody crimes against peaceful civilians, including Russian citizens.” Putin urged Ukraine’s military to “lay down (its) arms at once and leave for home,” adding: “Those servicemen of the Ukrainian army who meet this demand will be free to leave the zone of combat operations and return to their families.” Responsibility for continued bloodshed “will rest entirely on Ukraine’s ruling regime.” ...

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 12:59pm

I'm very curious.........

@Fishtroller 02
as to what news channels you are following?

And we should ignore the stories of the Ukrainian people we see every night on TV?

I would also think you would have caught on to the fact that our government lies and is proud to admit so.

“It doesn’t have to be solid intelligence,” one U.S. official said. “It’s more important to get out ahead of them [the Russians], Putin specifically, before they do something."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-using-declassified...

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 1:27pm

The CIA has infiltrated

@Pricknick all media. The truth is a bit harder to find rather than watching Rachel, but it can be found.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 3:03pm

Oh I know.

@on the cusp
I'm proud of the fact I haven't watched MSM for 2 decades.
I'm also fortunate to have vpn which allows me to find info that is blocked here in the land of freedumbs.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 3:33pm

I stopped watching tv in the 90s.

@Pricknick I hooked up to cable tv about 2005, stopped watching anything but an occasional movie. I got rid of it somewhere around 2015.I couldn't even find a movie to watch! But the news...Rachel and a few others that were interesting lost me. I started to seriously despise and mistrust them.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:36pm

Here’s what the Nazis that you are supporting

@Fishtroller 02

have been doing to anyone that they think are Russian or have any type of ties to them.

https://natsouth.livejournal.com/26334.html

Horrifying videos show Ukrainian civilians – including women and children – being tied up, stripped and beaten in apparent vigilante attacks.

There are literally hundreds of videos & photos posted showing Ukrainian civilians and military alike humiliating civilians & minors, stripping either naked or half-naked, strapping them to poles on the street.

Some of these punishments have been perpetrated by the paramilitary units, police officers and also National Guard members. But I suppose that would spoil the convenient narrative pushed on social media as “vigilantes”. However, other details were left out by the Daily Mail, such as the savage beatings of those tied up often by uniformed people, as well as beatings with belts & sticks by members of the public. Some other individuals were tied to posts, beaten and then left to freeze to their deaths during cold spells. In one video, one person has water poured over him to make him wet and get colder. All of which shows a much darker side to this practice, one that was carefully left out of the Daily Mail article. Apparently, this doesn't worry the hacks, taping looters to posts and leaving them to freeze to death is social justice. In several videos, individuals are savagely beaten or whipped.

The presumption that this is just an heroic response to looting is not verified whatsoever, it is assumed and that's the story. That's all folks. However, that's not actually the end of the sordid story, as also members of the Roma community were also singled out for inhumane and degrading treatment. Several phots from Lviv show Roma women taped up to a streetlamp with their faces daubed in a green product, 'Zelyonka'.

Some of the photos have been posted here that you must have missed. It’s one of the reasons why Russia decided to go into Ukraine. It’s what Putin meant by De-nazifying Ukraine. The world fought a war against them and yet here it is now supporting and arming them and turning a blind eye to their atrocities. Even Germany that knows better is fully behind them. Go ahead and defend that.

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 7:05pm

Me three.

@Lookout We backed him into a corner, gave him little choice but to invade. Our MIC is gleeful, we want those Ukrainians to fight to the death! For at least 20 years!

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by CB on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 10:39am

I suggest you study the recent history

@Fishtroller 02
of Donbass' Donetsk and Luhansk Regions at least since 2014. (BTW, Crimea has had direct military presence by Russia since the time of Catherine the Great when the naval base was installed there.)

You need to read this entire report by FAIR so you can at least have an informed opinion of the current conflict in Ukraine.

What You Should Really Know About Ukraine
January 28, 2022

As tensions began to rise over Ukraine, US media produced a stream of articles attempting to explain the situation with headlines like “Ukraine Explained” (New York Times, 12/8/21) and “What You Need to Know About Tensions Between Ukraine and Russia” (Washington Post, 11/26/21)....
...
These “explainer” pieces are emblematic of Ukraine coverage in the rest of corporate media, which almost universally gave a pro-Western view of US/Russia relations and the history behind them. Media echoed the point of view of those who believe the US should have an active role in Ukrainian politics and enforce its perspective through military threats.

The official line goes something like this: Russia is challenging NATO and the “international rules-based order” by threatening to invade Ukraine, and the Biden administration needed to deter Russia by providing more security guarantees to the Zelensky government. The official account seizes on Russia’s 2014 annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula as a starting point for US/Russian relations, and as evidence of Putin’s goals of rebuilding Russia’s long-lost empire.

Russia’s demand that NATO cease its expansion to Russia’s borders is viewed as such an obviously impossible demand that it can only be understood as a pretext to invade Ukraine. Therefore, the US should send weapons and troops to Ukraine, and guarantee its security with military threats to Russia (FAIR.org, 1/15/22).
...
But that account is highly misleading, because it leaves out the crucial role the US has played in escalating tensions in the region. In nearly every case we looked at, the reports omitted the US’s extensive role in the 2014 coup that preceded Russia’s annexation of Crimea. Focusing on the latter part only serves to manufacture consent for US intervention abroad.

The West Wants Investor-Friendly Policies in Ukraine

The backdrop to the 2014 coup and annexation cannot be understood without looking at the US strategy to open Ukrainian markets to foreign investors and give control of its economy to giant multinational corporations.
...
The US Helped Overthrow Ukraine’s Elected President

During the tug of war between the US and Russia, the Americans were engaged in a destabilization campaign against the Yanukovych government. The campaign culminated with the overthrow of the elected president in the Maidan Revolution—also known as the Maidan Coup—named for the Kiev square that hosted the bulk of the protests.
...
US Officials Were Caught Picking the New Government

On February 6, 2014, as the anti-government protests were intensifying, an anonymous party (assumed by many to be Russia) leaked a call between Assistant Secretary of State Nuland and US ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt. The two officials discussed which opposition officials would staff a prospective new government, agreeing that Arseniy Yatsenyuk—Nuland referred to him by the nickname “Yats”—should be in charge. It was also agreed that someone “high profile” be brought in to push things along. That someone was Joe Biden.
...
Washington Used Nazis to Help Overthrow the Government

The Washington-backed opposition that toppled the government was fueled by far-right and openly Nazi elements like the Right Sector. One far-right group that grew out of the protests was the Azov Battalion, a paramilitary militia of neo-Nazi extremists.
...
There’s a Lot More to the Crimean Annexation

The facts above give more context to Russian actions following the coup, and ought to counter the caricature of a Russian Empire bent on expansion. From Russia’s point of view, a longtime adversary had successfully overthrown a neighboring government using violent far-right extremists.
...
The US Wants to Expand NATO

In addition to integrating Ukraine into the US-dominated economic sphere, Western planners also want to integrate Ukraine militarily. For years, the US has sought the expansion of NATO, an explicitly anti-Russian military alliance.
...
The US Wouldn’t Tolerate What Russia Is Expected to Accept
...
But Putin has been clear about a path to de-escalation. His main demand has been for direct negotiations to end the expansion of the hostile military alliance to his borders. He announced, “We have made it clear that NATO’s move to the east is unacceptable,” and that “the United States is standing with missiles on our doorstep.” Putin asked, “How would the Americans react if missiles were placed at the border with Canada or Mexico?”
...
The Memory Hole

All of this missing context allows hawks to promote disastrous escalation of tensions.
...

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 3:41am

right

@CB
Russians are longtime motherfucking imperialist rat bastards. And no one. Sane and decent. Would support. Their smothering. Of other. Lands.

Submitted by Tall Bald and Ugly on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 9:10am

You should go

a little easier on the Kool-Aid.
The sugar is not good for you

—

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 3:50am

i

@Tall Bald and Ugly
haven't had Kool-Aid, since I was 5.

Also, in Jonestown, it was Flavor Aid. Not Kool-Aid.

Also, most of those killed, in Jonestown, died, not from the Flavor Aid, but from being shot.

Too, Jones, he was a big fan, of Russia.

You can hear him, there in his final frenzy, telling his people; yes, I tried to take us, to Russia. But it didn't work out.

He did, however, transfer to Russia, $7 million, there in his death spasm, from the rubes, from which he first stole their money, and then their lives.

Anything. Else. You want. To. Presume. To. Tell me. About Kool Aid. About. Anything. Else.

Submitted by Lookout on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 10:23am

it is rumored...

Macron has been calling Vlad because of high ranking French officers caught in the steel factory in Mariupol. Several helicopters have been sent in on rescue missions just to be shot down.

There's plenty of blame to go around... the US is very much responsible for this avoidable war.

The Russia bad narrative is counter productive to my mind.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by CB on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 3:29pm

After a half dozen failed attempts

@Lookout
to rescue the trapped foreign mercenaries in Mariupol with helicopters, the Western powers tried to use a ship.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/tzz9aq/the_vessel_ignored_d...

The vessel ignored demands by Russian patrol vessels to communicate via an international channel, and warning fire failing to alter its course. Instead, the ship transmitted "This is 'Maniac', I am coming for you," and signal fires were observed from Ukrainian-controlled areas of the shore.

Russian forces and Donetsk People's Militia units encircled the Azov Sea coast city of Mariupol in early March, trapping thousands of Ukrainian troops, neo-Nazi Azov Regiment fighters and foreign mercenaries in the strategic port hub. In recent days, Ukrainian forces have made several attempts to evacuate commanders from the city's ruins. The Apache, a dry cargo ship sailing under the Maltese flag, abruptly changed course while en route through the Azov Sea and attempted to break through the naval blockade of Mariupol enforced by ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and border patrol, Russian Ministry of Defence spokesman Igor Konashenkov has announced.

"At 10:38 pm, 30 km southeast of Mariupol, the vessel abruptly changed course and attempted to break through to the Mariupol port, blocked from the sea by forces of the [Russian] Black Sea Fleet," the officer said.

In order to block the further movement of the intruding vessel, a ship of the Black Sea Fleet and Russian border patrol boats opened fire on the Apache. A blaze broke out aboard the vessel after a direct hit to the stern. The ship began to drift, and its crew initiated communications with Russian vessels asking them to hold fire and promising to carry out their orders. The Apache's crew was not injured, and managed to extinguish the fire independently. After inspection, the ship was escorted to the port of Yeysk in Russia's Krasnodar region.

The suspected rescue attempt is the latest in a series of failed efforts to evacuate commanders from Mariupol as Russian and Donetsk People's Republic forces continue to chip away at the areas of the city controlled by Ukraine. On Tuesday, two Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters were shot down with man-portable anti-aircraft systems while trying to break through the lines. On Friday, the Russian MoD reported that its analysis of intercepted radio traffic revealed that at least six languages besides Russian and Ukrainian were being used by forces operating in Mariupol, signalling the presence of large numbers of foreign mercenaries.
...

I believe the Russians are taking their time in order to capture these mercenaries alive.

Submitted by QMS on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 6:43pm

The Russian forces are tightening a net

@CB

Around the mercs and special forces funded by the US, UK, FR and IS to capture the
*players* in order to exhibit to the world what the causes belli is for the Ukrainian
disorder. I have a feeling the western powers will be too embarrassed to have this
information exposed, so will do a preemptive internal disposal of the evidence.
Then blame it on Russia.
Just speculation ..

#4 to rescue the trapped foreign mercenaries in Mariupol with helicopters, the Western powers tried to use a ship. https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/tzz9aq/the_vessel_ignored_d... The vessel ignored demands by Russian patrol vessels to communicate via an international channel, and warning fire failing to alter its course. Instead, the ship transmitted "This is 'Maniac', I am coming for you," and signal fires were observed from Ukrainian-controlled areas of the shore. Russian forces and Donetsk People's Militia units encircled the Azov Sea coast city of Mariupol in early March, trapping thousands of Ukrainian troops, neo-Nazi Azov Regiment fighters and foreign mercenaries in the strategic port hub. In recent days, Ukrainian forces have made several attempts to evacuate commanders from the city's ruins. The Apache, a dry cargo ship sailing under the Maltese flag, abruptly changed course while en route through the Azov Sea and attempted to break through the naval blockade of Mariupol enforced by ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and border patrol, Russian Ministry of Defence spokesman Igor Konashenkov has announced. "At 10:38 pm, 30 km southeast of Mariupol, the vessel abruptly changed course and attempted to break through to the Mariupol port, blocked from the sea by forces of the [Russian] Black Sea Fleet," the officer said. In order to block the further movement of the intruding vessel, a ship of the Black Sea Fleet and Russian border patrol boats opened fire on the Apache. A blaze broke out aboard the vessel after a direct hit to the stern. The ship began to drift, and its crew initiated communications with Russian vessels asking them to hold fire and promising to carry out their orders. The Apache's crew was not injured, and managed to extinguish the fire independently. After inspection, the ship was escorted to the port of Yeysk in Russia's Krasnodar region. The suspected rescue attempt is the latest in a series of failed efforts to evacuate commanders from Mariupol as Russian and Donetsk People's Republic forces continue to chip away at the areas of the city controlled by Ukraine. On Tuesday, two Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters were shot down with man-portable anti-aircraft systems while trying to break through the lines. On Friday, the Russian MoD reported that its analysis of intercepted radio traffic revealed that at least six languages besides Russian and Ukrainian were being used by forces operating in Mariupol, signalling the presence of large numbers of foreign mercenaries. ... I believe the Russians are taking their time in order to capture these mercenaries alive.

—

question everything

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 7:07pm

Mercenaries should have thought through the consequences.

@CB Sometimes it sucks to be a paid assassin.

#4 to rescue the trapped foreign mercenaries in Mariupol with helicopters, the Western powers tried to use a ship. https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/tzz9aq/the_vessel_ignored_d... The vessel ignored demands by Russian patrol vessels to communicate via an international channel, and warning fire failing to alter its course. Instead, the ship transmitted "This is 'Maniac', I am coming for you," and signal fires were observed from Ukrainian-controlled areas of the shore. Russian forces and Donetsk People's Militia units encircled the Azov Sea coast city of Mariupol in early March, trapping thousands of Ukrainian troops, neo-Nazi Azov Regiment fighters and foreign mercenaries in the strategic port hub. In recent days, Ukrainian forces have made several attempts to evacuate commanders from the city's ruins. The Apache, a dry cargo ship sailing under the Maltese flag, abruptly changed course while en route through the Azov Sea and attempted to break through the naval blockade of Mariupol enforced by ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and border patrol, Russian Ministry of Defence spokesman Igor Konashenkov has announced. "At 10:38 pm, 30 km southeast of Mariupol, the vessel abruptly changed course and attempted to break through to the Mariupol port, blocked from the sea by forces of the [Russian] Black Sea Fleet," the officer said. In order to block the further movement of the intruding vessel, a ship of the Black Sea Fleet and Russian border patrol boats opened fire on the Apache. A blaze broke out aboard the vessel after a direct hit to the stern. The ship began to drift, and its crew initiated communications with Russian vessels asking them to hold fire and promising to carry out their orders. The Apache's crew was not injured, and managed to extinguish the fire independently. After inspection, the ship was escorted to the port of Yeysk in Russia's Krasnodar region. The suspected rescue attempt is the latest in a series of failed efforts to evacuate commanders from Mariupol as Russian and Donetsk People's Republic forces continue to chip away at the areas of the city controlled by Ukraine. On Tuesday, two Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters were shot down with man-portable anti-aircraft systems while trying to break through the lines. On Friday, the Russian MoD reported that its analysis of intercepted radio traffic revealed that at least six languages besides Russian and Ukrainian were being used by forces operating in Mariupol, signalling the presence of large numbers of foreign mercenaries. ... I believe the Russians are taking their time in order to capture these mercenaries alive.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 7:54pm

I fucking hate mercenaries.

@on the cusp
Wackjobs that need a life release.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:27pm

I know one.

@Pricknick It is his right to kill whomever his boss tells him to kill
He mad near $200,000 per year as a security guard at our Embassy in Iraq. He worked for a private co., not directly or our government, although the government checked his background and ok'd him on behalf of the company.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 12:35am

Sometimes rumors

@Lookout turn out to be truths...

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 3:51am

yes,

@Lookout
this "trapped Frenchman" horseshit, a favored fever dream, of such fantasist tankies, as Pepe Escobar.

Submitted by Pricknick on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 10:52am

Abraham Lincoln

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 11:49am

Thanks Hecate...

Our government has been feeding us anti-Russia crap since WWII and the creation of the CIA. So after years of this (culminating in the claim that the Russians were behind Hillary's loss) many of us found it hard to believe anything about Russia and the evil-ness of its government. However, Putin cut through all of that doubt (I'm sure the CIA is sending him love notes for that). There are sites I used to visit who are in denial of what is going on in Ukraine and trying to make it appear as if Ukraine is the bad guy and all the atrocities are staged. I won't go to sites like that anymore. Putin is a monster, his government and military are monsters and nothing has been clearer since Hitler ran Europe.

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 12:28pm

The government would never lie to us

Oh wait.

U.S. propaganda has no basis in truth or reality.

"It doesn't have to be solid intelligence when we talk about," a U.S. official said. "It's more important to get out ahead of them - Putin specifically - before they do something. It's preventative." pic.twitter.com/6B9Y64ZRMl

— Camila (@camilapress) April 6, 2022

And of course there are no Nazis in Ukraine that we have been supporting since Obama’s bloody coup in 2014. Oh wait. McCain and Graham and Nuland had nothing to do with the Maidan square massacre either…. Oh wait!

How long until we hear that Russian soldiers are throwing Ukraine babies out of incubators? We’ve already heard that Russia was going to use WMDs, but then in the video above we are being told that we just lied about to throw Putin a curveball.

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 4:22am

interesting

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg
that nothing I wrote relied on US government information.

I, of course, bow down, below, below, ever, my knees, to the truthiness, of Russian government info.

For as the Americans have Judge Box-O-Wine, a.k.a. Jeanine Pirro, a Fox talking head legend for stumbling into the studio to slur on-air inane wingerisms through clouds of bad wine breath, the Russian version is Maria Zakharova, a veteran inebriate sometimes known as “Putin’s Mouth,” as everything to flow from her lips comes directly from Vlad’s basal ganglia—though often filtered through a thorough sousing in strong vodkas.

While she specializes in slagging gays and Jews, the other day Zakharova was on about Ukrainians and borscht—specifically, the reason Ukrainians have to be erased from the earth, is because they wouldn’t let Russians have any borscht.

Here is a translated version of her wisdom:

“And like I said, everything that was tied to ethnicity, to culture, were targeted in the first instance. Even culinary books, they were also banned. Why? Because you couldn’t share borscht! You couldn’t share it. It had to belong to just one group. Only one group, only one people, only one nationality. So that in every town, or in every region, every housewife could make it in their own way—no! They didn’t want to compromise. This is precisely what we’re talking about. Xenophobia. Nazism. Extremism in all its forms.”

Now, not only is this not true, it doesn’t even make sense. But what does that matter? Truth, sense—no one expects such. From Fox. From Putin’s mouth.

In this clip, we see that alcohol, it transcends language. It is not necessary to understand Russian, to perceive that this woman is blowing every breathalyzer in the land. You don’t have to be drunk, to shill for Rupert Murdoch. Or Vlad. But. It certainly helps.

[video:https://youtu.be/IESYkbrf_1A]

Submitted by CB on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 2:30pm

Excellent report by Jacques Baud

Is it possible to actually know what has been and is going on in Ukraine?

Just recently I came across perhaps the clearest and most reasonable account of what has been going on in Ukraine. Its importance comes due to the fact that its author, Jacques Baud, a retired colonel in the Swiss intelligence service, was variously a highly placed, major participant in NATO training operations in Ukraine.
...

The Military Situation In The Ukraine
by Jacques Baud March 2022

Part One: The Road To War

For years, from Mali to Afghanistan, I have worked for peace and risked my life for it. It is therefore not a question of justifying war, but of understanding what led us to it. [....]

Let's try to examine the roots of the [Ukrainian] conflict. It starts with those who for the last eight years have been talking about "separatists" or "independentists" from Donbass. This is a misnomer. The referendums conducted by the two self-proclaimed Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk in May 2014, were not referendums of "independence" (независимость), as some unscrupulous journalists have claimed, but referendums of "self-determination" or "autonomy" (самостоятельность). The qualifier "pro-Russian" suggests that Russia was a party to the conflict, which was not the case, and the term "Russian speakers" would have been more honest. Moreover, these referendums were conducted against the advice of Vladimir Putin.

In fact, these Republics were not seeking to separate from Ukraine, but to have a status of autonomy, guaranteeing them the use of the Russian language as an official language — because the first legislative act of the new government resulting from the American-sponsored overthrow of [the democratically-elected] President Yanukovych, was the abolition, on February 23, 2014, of the Kivalov-Kolesnichenko law of 2012 that made Russian an official language in Ukraine. A bit like if German putschists decided that French and Italian would no longer be official languages in Switzerland.
...
In 2022, very schematically, the Ukrainian armed forces fighting the Russian offensive were organized as:

The Army, subordinated to the Ministry of Defense. It is organized into 3 army corps and composed of maneuver formations (tanks, heavy artillery, missiles, etc.).

The National Guard, which depends on the Ministry of the Interior and is organized into 5 territorial commands.

The National Guard is therefore a territorial defense force that is not part of the Ukrainian army. It includes paramilitary militias, called "volunteer battalions" (добровольчі батальйоні), also known by the evocative name of "reprisal battalions," and composed of infantry. Primarily trained for urban combat, they now defend cities such as Kharkov, Mariupol, Odessa, Kiev, etc.

Part Two: The War

As a former head of analysis of Warsaw Pact forces in the Swiss strategic intelligence service, I observe with sadness — but not astonishment — that our services are no longer able to understand the military situation in Ukraine. The self-proclaimed "experts" who parade on our TV screens tirelessly relay the same information modulated by the claim that Russia — and Vladimir Putin — is irrational. Let's take a step back.
...
The problem is that the paramilitary militias that defend the cities are encouraged by the international community not to respect the rules of war. It seems that the Ukrainians have replayed the scenario of the Kuwait City maternity hospital in 1990, which was totally staged by the firm Hill & Knowlton for $10.7 million in order to convince the United Nations Security Council to intervene in Iraq for Operation Desert Shield/Storm.

Western politicians have accepted civilian strikes in the Donbass for eight years without adopting any sanctions against the Ukrainian government. We have long since entered a dynamic where Western politicians have agreed to sacrifice international law towards their goal of weakening Russia.

Part Three: Conclusions

As an ex-intelligence professional, the first thing that strikes me is the total absence of Western intelligence services in accurately representing the situation over the past year.... In fact, it seems that throughout the Western world intelligence services have been overwhelmed by the politicians. The problem is that it is the politicians who decide — the best intelligence service in the world is useless if the decision-maker does not listen. This is what has happened during this crisis.
...
In other words, we can naturally deplore and condemn the Russian attack. But WE (that is: the United States, France and the European Union in the lead) have created the conditions for a conflict to break out. We show compassion for the Ukrainian people and the two million refugees. That is fine. But if we had had a modicum of compassion for the same number of refugees from the Ukrainian populations of Donbass massacred by their own government and who sought refuge in Russia for eight years, none of this would probably have happened.
...
In the end, the price will be high, but Vladimir Putin will likely achieve the goals he set for himself. We have pushed him into the arms of China. His ties with Beijing have solidified. China is emerging as a mediator in the conflict.... The Americans have to ask Venezuela and Iran for oil to get out of the energy impasse they have put themselves in — and the United States has to piteously backtrack on the sanctions imposed on its enemies.

Western ministers who seek to collapse the Russian economy and make the Russian people suffer, or even call for the assassination of Putin, show (even if they have partially reversed the form of their words, but not the substance!) that our leaders are no better than those we hate — sanctioning Russian athletes in the Para-Olympic Games or Russian artists has nothing to do with fighting Putin. [....]

What makes the conflict in Ukraine more blameworthy than our wars in Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya? What sanctions have we adopted against those who deliberately lied to the international community in order to wage unjust, unjustified and murderous wars?....Have we adopted a single sanction against the countries, companies or politicians who are supplying weapons to the conflict in Yemen, considered to be the "worst humanitarian disaster in the world?"

To ask the question is to answer it... and the answer is not pretty.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 2:36pm

Michael Hudson

has an interesting perspective on the war:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/04/08/the-dollar-devours-the-euro/

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by CB on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 2:51pm

Cui bono

More Evidence That Ukraine Fired The Missile Which Killed Dozens In Kramatorsk

This is a follow on to yesterday's Ukrainian Tochka-U missile strike on the Kramatorsk railway station. Russia no longer has Tochka missiles (search for Tochka in the pdf) while the Ukraine, Belarus and several other states still use them.

There is now additional evidence that the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces. The facts do not matter in 'western' media who stick to whatever story they are told to produce. Still, I do believe that facts matter at least in the long term and that there is a historic value in documenting them.

The Tochka-U is a tactical missile with a maximum range of some 120 kilometer. It is typically fired from a transporter, erector, launcher vehicle (TEL) with little need of preparations.
...
Over the target area these sub-munitions get expelled and explode while still in the air and each one creates some 800 fragments. The warhead thus leaves no hole in the ground but expels a huge number of deadly metal fragments at high speed over a relative large area. The Tochka missiles are not very precise. They have a circular error probability (CEP) of some 150 meters. They are so called area weapons to be used against concentrations of infantry or unarmored vehicles.

After being fired the rocket engine propels the warhead towards is destination. Shortly before the impact the warhead separates from the booster section and continues its path while the rocket engine shuts down. Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section.

Which brings us to the scene in Kramatorsk. Several pictures from the scene show the booster section of the missile.

...
The place where it landed was geo-located as being near a parking space some 60 meter west-southwest of the railway station. Here is the Google maps view of the railway station area. The warhead explosions happened on the east side of the station over the departure platform.

The location of the booster debris and where the explosion happened allows one to point out the trajectory from where the missile was fired. I have checked the locations depicted below and found them to be correct.

North is to the top. The station is encircled and the point is where the booster section landed. The arrow shows the trajectory the missile must have taken.

...
Note that there are no Russian or Russia-aligned forces west-southwest of Kramatorsk within the 120 km maximum range of a Tochka missile. The missile must have been fired by Ukrainian forces.

...
The publicly available evidence shows that the Ukrainian military must have fired the missile that killed some 50 Ukrainian civilians in Kramatorsk.

The only purpose of the attack I can think of was to create propaganda that, when distributed as 'Russian attack' through 'western' media, will create more military support for Ukraine.

Everyone who urges to give more arms to the Ukraine or who eggs it on to continue this war is guilty of creating impetus for more incidents like the one seen in Kramatorsk.

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:41am

If you read the comments below this story,

@CB

you will see quite a discussion on the missile itself. One post says it had to have come from the west/southwest area, and other who claim it came from the east/southeast direction. Plus there is the claim that the serial number on the missile proves it is/was owned by Ukraine, which doesn't prove that it was fired by Ukraine. There are so many weapons in eastern Ukraine from all kinds of sources, it is hard to prove who shot it off.

If all the conspiracy stories that you post are true, does this mean we should walk away from Ukraine and let the Russians take it?

More Evidence That Ukraine Fired The Missile Which Killed Dozens In Kramatorsk This is a follow on to yesterday's Ukrainian Tochka-U missile strike on the Kramatorsk railway station. Russia no longer has Tochka missiles (search for Tochka in the pdf) while the Ukraine, Belarus and several other states still use them. There is now additional evidence that the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces. The facts do not matter in 'western' media who stick to whatever story they are told to produce. Still, I do believe that facts matter at least in the long term and that there is a historic value in documenting them. The Tochka-U is a tactical missile with a maximum range of some 120 kilometer. It is typically fired from a transporter, erector, launcher vehicle (TEL) with little need of preparations. ... Over the target area these sub-munitions get expelled and explode while still in the air and each one creates some 800 fragments. The warhead thus leaves no hole in the ground but expels a huge number of deadly metal fragments at high speed over a relative large area. The Tochka missiles are not very precise. They have a circular error probability (CEP) of some 150 meters. They are so called area weapons to be used against concentrations of infantry or unarmored vehicles. After being fired the rocket engine propels the warhead towards is destination. Shortly before the impact the warhead separates from the booster section and continues its path while the rocket engine shuts down. Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section. Which brings us to the scene in Kramatorsk. Several pictures from the scene show the booster section of the missile. ... The place where it landed was geo-located as being near a parking space some 60 meter west-southwest of the railway station. Here is the Google maps view of the railway station area. The warhead explosions happened on the east side of the station over the departure platform. The location of the booster debris and where the explosion happened allows one to point out the trajectory from where the missile was fired. I have checked the locations depicted below and found them to be correct. North is to the top. The station is encircled and the point is where the booster section landed. The arrow shows the trajectory the missile must have taken. ... Note that there are no Russian or Russia-aligned forces west-southwest of Kramatorsk within the 120 km maximum range of a Tochka missile. The missile must have been fired by Ukrainian forces. ... The publicly available evidence shows that the Ukrainian military must have fired the missile that killed some 50 Ukrainian civilians in Kramatorsk. The only purpose of the attack I can think of was to create propaganda that, when distributed as 'Russian attack' through 'western' media, will create more military support for Ukraine. Everyone who urges to give more arms to the Ukraine or who eggs it on to continue this war is guilty of creating impetus for more incidents like the one seen in Kramatorsk.

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 11:24am

Ah yes report what Thomas said

@Fishtroller 02

and ignore what the many others said that totally destroyed Thomas including b himself. Just find the one comment you agree with and ignore the 10 others that blow him out of the water so you can go on your merry way and be mad at Russia. Weird tho isn’t it that we’ve been sending lethal weapons into 8 years before Russia went in. And we also ignored the Nazis killing people who spoke Russia even outside the Donbas. Selective reading let’s one do that.

Also Russia has no intention of taking over Ukraine. They could have been done doing their objectives if they weren’t trying not to kill civilians and destroy the infrastructure. They could have done shock and awe like we did in Iraq. It’s why it’s taking them so long. They want Ukraine to be neutral and not have US weapons and troops there. And if NATO insists on letting more countries join then we will be on our merry way to nuclear war. It would be like both Canada and Mexico being totally under Russia’s thumb.

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by CB on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 5:32pm

How do you account for the booster

@Fishtroller 02 @Fishtroller 02
section to be located west-south-west of the explosive impact site? The booster is not aerodynamic compared to the nose section containing the explosives. This booster will immediately tumble and fall along the original path of the missile. Also, it makes absolutely no sense to use an anti-personnel weapon if one is trying to destroy a train load of armaments. Kramatorsk is part of the Donetsk Oblast so the Russians would not want to hurt the people that live in this city.

Many people who comment and try to put the blame on Russia cannot account for the physical location of the parts of the missile. I have noticed that the MSM have stopped reporting on this. Rather than correct their mistake they simply go silent rather than admit they were wrong.

You are the one bringing "conspiracy theories" here. As you will notice, I back up ALL my posts with researched facts to the best of my ability.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 7:13pm

What are the cts specifically

@Fishtroller 02 Russia is guaranteeing the independence of the areas he is currently occupying. There is no reason to believe this is empire expansion.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by CB on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 9:43pm

I'll leave you with this:

@Fishtroller 02

Jimmy and The Grayzone’s Max Blumenthal discuss the critical events that led up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and why the media so rarely provides this essential historical context.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfDsf9gBAWA]

Submitted by CB on Sat, 04/09/2022 - 4:20pm

You have made an error in your report

You are mixing up the missile strikes in Novograd-Volynsky with that in Kramatorsk. The Kramatorsk strike used a Tochka-U antipersonnel missile which is completely useless against an "ammunition train".

Russia yesterday fired what it initially claimed were “high-precision rockets” on a railway station in Kramatorsk, and at first was very proud of this, bragging, on state media, about extinguishing an ammunition train. But when it developed dozens of civilians had been killed, with hundreds more injured, that bragging was scrubbed, and now it is said this carnage was a “provocation,” staged by Ukraine.

The Russian Aerospace Forces launched an airstrike on a cluster of military equipment at the Novograd-Volynsky station in the Zhytomyr region

The Russian Armed Forces continue to strike at the military infrastructure of Ukraine, disabling ammunition depots and fuel and lubricants, as well as military equipment, depriving the Ukrainian army of reserves.

According to new data provided by the Russian Ministry of Defense on Thursday evening, April 7, the Russian Aerospace Forces during the day carried out a strike on the Novograd-Volynsky railway station in the Zhytomyr region, where there were military trains with military equipment sent to Donbass. The strike was delivered by high-precision air-launched missiles; as a result of the strike, the AFU grouping in Donbas lost its reserves. The military traditionally does not disclose the details of the strike.
...

[video:https://youtu.be/T0L83NOpkGQ?t=291]

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 4:37am

for

@CB
years, I've, here, read, you.

Never felt the need. To respond.

For, so pathetic. Are you.

Worm.

But. What the hell. Tonight. Here. For you:

flip off_0.jpg

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 2:05pm

The latest news I saw

NATO has decided to send forces into eastern Ukraine (read Donetsk, Luhansk) to *defend* the
region (mostly Russian ethnic population) from Russia. This is the tinderbox the warmongers
have been hoping for. Once Russia responds, the NATO allies will have their war of choice
ratcheted-up. Not good for planet earth.

—

question everything

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 3:05pm

Where did you see

@QMS
or hear that neocon wet dream?

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 3:12pm

Sorry, but do not remember

@Pricknick

Scanning so many articles on so many sites, it is difficult to sort out what I saw where. It was just a
blip on one of the alt media sites.

On further inspection ...

https://www.rt.com/news/553622-nato-new-force-east/

—

question everything

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 3:19pm

Eastern Europe

@QMS
not eastern Ukraine.
Thanks for clarifying.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 3:25pm

oops.

@Pricknick

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question everything

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 04/10/2022 - 7:58pm

No oops.

@QMS
There is so much bullshit out there it takes massive concentration to sort through the minefield of misinformation.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by lotlizard on Mon, 04/11/2022 - 2:12am

JPR chat among posters who seem to have actual Ukrainian family…

and/or friends and acquaintances, and/or experience of actual time spent in Ukraine.

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/how-different-are-russian-and-...

All three over there at JackPine Radicals piping up in this exchange — handles: jbnw, Passionate Progressive, and GZeusH — appear to me to have been taking a nuanced approach to the war, duly skeptical of officialdom and groupthink…

This is in contrast to others, notably handle RCW2020 for example, who lean more toward the Zelenskyy / official NATO line.

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 4:16am

those

not roboted into kneejerk fellate-Vlad-uber-alles, might want to consider, not only the "Fuck Leftist Westplaining" piece from the Polish anarchist—so far more left than anyone on this site—linked in the first comment, but also this, from Jacobin.

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 12:00pm

Well, folks,

@hecate some filthy comments from today contain the crudest, nastiest, most insulting content I have ever read on this site.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Tall Bald and Ugly on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 4:24pm

Damn!

I thought @on the cusp I held that distinction!
/s

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 11:44pm

You didn't focus

@Tall Bald and Ugly @Tall Bald and Ugly on oral sex, did you?
I hate insults using porn to make a point, when the language available covers it well enough. I also hate insults in general.
This not my site, but if it were...

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by snoopydawg on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 1:02pm

Nonsense

@hecate

This was a revolt that started essentially in a similar way to the Maidan — as a grassroots mobilization, with barricades and takeover of local governments in several eastern cities. Initially it was a purely negative phenomenon — against something rather than for something. But soon, guys with a particular mix of the Russian-imperialist ideology and Soviet nostalgia — hoping for a union with Russia and inspired by the annexation of Crimea — took over this local uprising.

There was nothing grassroots about the coup in 2014. Left out is how Obama overthrew the Ukraine president because he didn’t want to implement austerity on his people and also left out was how the Nazis were involved in the Maidan massacre that saw lots of people burned alive and that anyone who tried to escape the building was shot by snipers. No mention of McCain and Graham telling the Nazis that they would be getting weapons after Obama left office. Russia didn’t just decide to annex Crimea. They gave people the choice to either stay with Russia or Ukraine. The vote was monitored by many countries and the people chose to stay with Russia. Ukraine reacted by cutting off their water supply.

There is nothing said about Obama refusing to arm Ukraine because he said that it was in Russia’s sphere of influence, not the US. Nor any discussion of Trump being pressured into sending those same weapons or how NATO has been arming Ukraine to the teeth.

In 2017 congress voted to not support the Ukraine Nazis. That decision was recently overturned and now we’ve sent them tens of billions in weapons. Biden just authorized more billions for more weapons, but nothing for humanitarian aid.

Russia has tried for 8 years to get the Minsk agreement enforced and asked France to pressure Zelensky into supporting it. In December Russia gave the world a list of things it wanted to decrease the chance of war. They were ignored.

Would you be okay with Russia and China doing that to Mexico and Canada? Do you think America would wait 8 years and just watch as both countries are flooded with weapons? If not then why can’t you see why Russia did what it did? Again…Russia didn’t start the war. We did. We have continued it and will continue flooding the country with weapons until the last Ukrainian is dead. There are just a few things that could be done to end this conflict. Biden won’t even consider them. Opinions are one thing, facts are another.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by QMS on Thu, 04/14/2022 - 3:16pm

What the hell

and where did that come from?
Sorry to see a great writing talent
fall below the threshold of common
respect. Must be tough there.

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question everything