Swap. Why Hamid Karzai NOT Bahgram.

Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 3:31pm

Here is an Imaginary Scenario that explains the facts we have been allowed to see.

Trump/Biden and 70%+ of all Americans wanted out of Afghanistan. The US Military wanted to keep a significant prescence in Afghanistan.

The Taiban wanted us out of Their Country.. The Taliban held the stronger hand. Negotiations commenced.

First, the USM offered to withdraw from everyplace except Baghram. The US said, correctly, that they knew how to operate an international airport and that the Taliban, clearly, did not. The Taiban government has no air troops and few pilots, elngineers, airplane mechanics, etc.

The Taliban countered with, You can stay and operate an International Airport, but that Airport will be Hamid Kharzai airport in Kabul.

Futhermore, when you abandon Bahgram, it will be done without any notice and what you cannot get out will be the property of the people of Afghanistan and the Taliban.

And so it went.

Safe evacuation was not the top of the discussion agenda. Runways, fortified perimeters, secure access roads. No. Sorry.

If the USM agrees to our terms we will assist in a safe evacuation as best we can. And, we will helpfully point out a mutual enemy or 2 so that you American Invaders can retain some measure of "face."

We chose Get Out and the Taliban dictated How.

Tags: 
evacuation
long term intersts of the USM
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Submitted by CB on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 4:18pm
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[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T9TADZNG9Y]

“If we were to keep both Bagram and the embassy going, that would be a significant number of military forces…that may have exceeded what we had, or stayed the same as what we had,” Milley continued. “So you had to collapse one or the other. And the decision was made, the proposal was made, from CENTCOM commander and the commander on the ground, Scottie Miller, to go ahead and collapse Bagram. That was all briefed and approved and we estimated that the risk of going out of KIA, or the risk of going out of Bagram, were about the same, so going out of KIA was the better tactical solution…in accordance with getting the troops down to a 600, 700 number.”

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Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 5:04pm

@CB who kicked off the US panic when instead of addressing what our country needed to hear, told us about troop numbers and the precise location of the 82nd Airborne.

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Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 4:24pm

It somewhat explains what happened.

But there is more! The fog of war.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/3/afghanistan-powerful-blast-hits-...

Powerful blasts followed by sporadic gunfire hit Afghanistan’s capital Kabul on Tuesday near the city’s heavily fortified “Green Zone”, an area home to government buildings and foreign embassies, officials said.

A senior security official said the first blast, which struck just after 8pm local time (15:30 GMT), appeared to have been caused by a car bomb and the target was the acting defence minister’s home and the adjoining residence of a member of parliament.

Less than two hours after the car bomb detonated, another loud blast followed by rapid gunfire again shook Kabul, in what appeared to be the same area of the city.

Hundreds of residents in the area were moved to safety, said Ferdaws Faramarz, spokesman for the Kabul police chief. He said security personnel were searching house to house should more attackers be hiding in the area

https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/pentagon-only-one-suicide-bomb-exploded-in...

The Pentagon now says only one bomb — and not two like previously reported — was detonated outside Kabul airport Thursday that killed 13 US service members and at least 169 Afghans.

Army Maj. Gen. William “Hank” Taylor admitted during a press briefing Friday that there was only one ISIS-affiliated explosion at the Abbey gate at Hamid Karzai International Airport.

US officials had previously said a second explosion – believed to be a car bomb — occurred outside the nearby Baron Hotel.

“I can confirm for you that we do not believe that there was a second explosion at or near the Baron Hotel, that it was one suicide bomber. We’re not sure how that report was provided incorrectly,” he said.

This was likely the second explosion!

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-destroys-cia-base-kabul-afghanistan-a...

American forces on Thursday destroyed the last CIA outpost in Afghanistan outside of the Kabul airport in order to keep sensitive equipment and information away from the Taliban, US officials told The New York Times.

A controlled demolition was utilized to blow up Eagle Base, a former brick factory repurposed into a facility employed to train counterterrorism forces of Afghanistan's intelligence agencies, according to The Times

According to The Times, local Afghan residents didn't know much about the facility, as it was heavily fortified with walls that reached 10 feet and a thick metal gate that quickly opened and closed to permit vehicles inside the perimeter.

Once the vehicles were inside, they went through three security checkpoints and searches, with documents also being screened before any visitors were authorized inside the base facility.A former CIA contractor told The Times that the action needed to be taken to prevent hard drives and sensitive equipment from being used by a Taliban-led government — and unlike embassies, documents simply couldn't be burned to shield confidential information.

The obliteration of the base was already in the works and was unrelated to the terrorist attack on Thursday at the Kabul airport that killed at least 169 Afghans and 13 US service members. The bombing that day was carried out by ISIS-K, the regional affiliate of the Islamic State group, which claimed responsibility for the attack.

Sorry for the long comment but I think that the CIA presence was why Bagram was not chosen.

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Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 5:23pm

@humphrey @humphrey @humphrey A Swap and a deal was made. Respect for the CIA and you thinking that the world cares what they say and do does not apply here. Business Insider is Bloomberg, for Gods sake.

My articulation of the specifics might be off, however.

For example, It is equally possible that The Taliban said get out of Baghram and leave all your stuff.
Then do the best you can from HK airport. Until the "Hard Date" of August 31.

In return, If you agree to vacate by then we will allow you safe passage for a large enough number to be evacuated so you do not look like the total losers you are. And here's the locale of a few guys we hate, what do you call them again? Special K? BTK? Y2K? Oh, yeah ISIS-K. Yes, they are actually our rag-tag vicious little brothers, Isis. Go drone them and we both win.

After August 31, we will seal the gates and scrape every trace of your loathsome invading occupation away.

Then, we call in our friends---from Russia. China...Iran...Pakistan...plus who knows. They will bring in pilots, air traffic controllers, engineers, technicians and get Baghram and Hamid Karzai back to full operation.

Update----add Turkey, thanks to Marie

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Submitted by Marie on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 5:07pm

Last fall the Ghani government negotiated a deal with UAE to manage the Hamid Karzai Airport. Without a formal (photo-op) handoff, Bagram became the property of the Afghan Government when the US turned off the lights.

Afghanistan’s army showed off the sprawling airbase on Monday, allowing journalists to visit the heavily fortified compound.

“They (Americans) are completely out now and everything is under our control, including watchtowers, air traffic and the hospital,” a senior Afghan government official told the Reuters news agency.
...
The [US] statement said the handover had been in the process soon after President Joe Biden’s mid-April announcement that the US would withdraw its forces from Afghanistan. Leggett said in the statement that they had coordinated their departures with Afghanistan’s leaders.
...
[General Mir Asadullah] Kohistani, the new commander of the airfield, insisted the Afghan National Security and Defense Force could hold on to the heavily fortified base despite a string of Taliban wins on the battlefield. The airfield also includes a prison with about 5,000 prisoners, many of them allegedly members of the Taliban.
...

Appears that the US didn't want to deal with the 5,000 Taliban prisoners and the Afghan government was willing to handle it. Not seeing any news reports on Kohistani since July 6.

Current info on the Hamid Karzai Airport - Turkey and Taliban close to a deal on Kabul airport -- lots of info in this report:

Turkey and Qatar will jointly operate the Kabul international airport, with Ankara providing security through a private firm, according to a draft deal with the Taliban in Afghanistan, two sources familiar with the issue told Middle East Eye (MEE) on Saturday.
...
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan still needs to approve the deal. He is expected to hold consultations on the matter with his Nato allies, chiefly the United States.

Turkey completed the withdrawal of its troops from the airport earlier this week after talks with Taliban leadership failed to produce a deal that would see Ankara continue to station soldiers in Afghanistan following the US pullout, as it had wished.

For weeks, Turkey has been exploring the possibility of it providing security at Kabul airport once US troops leave.
...
The main points of the draft deal include:

Turkey recognising the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan
Turkey and Qatar operating the airport in a consortium
Ankara providing security through a private firm, whose staff will consist of former Turkish soldiers and police
That additional members of the Turkish special forces, operating in plainclothes to secure Turkish technical staff, do not leave the airport perimeter.
...
Turkey continues to keep its embassy in Kabul open and hasn't evacuated the core of its diplomatic staff, including the ambassador.

There are also a number of Turkish special forces in Kabul to protect the embassy, as well as in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital, for possible contingencies.

For the past few years, Turkey has been guarding Kabul airport's military section against external attacks.

Earlier this summer, Ankara was close to striking a deal with the US to continue the mission, but a sweeping Taliban takeover of the country changed the circumstances dramatically.

Turkish officials previously told MEE they believe maintaining a presence in Afghanistan will help them to protect Turkish commercial and political interests in the country, including preventing a wave of refugees from entering Turkey seeking asylum in Europe.

The officials said the presence of Turkish security forces at Kabul airport could continue to facilitate foreign aid and investment into the country during the transition period, and ensure relative stability in the city.

This raises many questions in my mind. Is Erdogan/NATO in the driver's seat on this or are they being used? If so, to what purpose? And by whom? Does the government of any country trust Erdogan?

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Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 5:22pm

@Marie @Marie to the mark.

US terms of surrender.

A Swap. face covering. Dunkirk in the Desert. Biggest Air Evacuation Ever!!!!

Anything but whatever Milley and the media are saying.

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Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 6:16pm

@NYCVG Ghani and Bahgram belonging to the Afghan Gov't; I believe that was a deal at the time.

Which the USM might not have not honored in the breach. Which is now. No Afghan Government other that Taliban.

It will be part of The Official Record, however. The Story that is told. For whatever that might be worth.

My idea was to present another narrative, a reasonable gestalt explanation of what has happened in the past 2 weeks, not what the official answer will be.

On Turkey, In 5th grade I learned that world history is the story of where the world's critical resources are and who and how runs the transport, the flow. Our time is ending.

Trusting Turkey has little to do with what is happening. Look at a globe. Turkey is a vital connection and Turkey will do what is best for Turkey. The Silk Road is what comes next and let's see how long this country takes to understand that.

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Submitted by CB on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 7:26pm
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@NYCVG
Afghan National Army for several years. The central government in Kabul was entirely corrupt and spent their time stuffing their pockets with loot. The ANA was mostly comprised of soldiers who only existed on paper in order for their officers to extract cash. Any soldiers that did show had been co-opted by Taliban sleeper agents. These 'soldiers' put down their weapons and went home the moment the Taliban appeared at their bases.

The US military and Congress should have allowed Trump to pull out of Afghanistan right after signing the Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan. If that plan had been followed, we would not be in the shit hole that Biden created.

BTW, I never supported Trump. The only person I now support is Tulsi Gabbard - the only person that has spoke truth to power consistently.

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Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 7:35pm

@CB @CB that mattered and any deal they might have made was moot. Irrelevant like whatever they churn out to attempt to obscure that as Julian says, this War was about Profit not Winning. Endless profit. Ghani absconding with his millions was more likely part of any plan the USM had than a betrayal by Ghani. Everybody is playing I got Mine, Fuck you.

Meanwhile Front Page NY Times website now:

"Another Attack at Kabul Airport Is ‘Highly Likely,’ Biden Says
President Biden’s warning of another potential attack in the next 36 hours came as the evacuation effort at the airport began to wind down.
He added that the U.S.’s retaliatory strike after Thursday’s suicide bombing “was not the last.” Here’s the latest."

Front page of the NY Times right now. fear and threats. old reliable tools of 1984

The Official Ending is being presented. Believe any of it if it makes you feel better. Does not work for me any longer.

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Submitted by CB on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 8:07pm
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@NYCVG
Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan

It actually set out the terms for an orderly withdrawal of all American and Embassy staff. It also set up a forward looking road map to ease tensions between the Taliban and the US government. It was literally a road map towards peace in the region. No wonder the 'blob' in Washington put the the kibosh on it while Trump was in the White House.

If truth be told, Trump would have got us out of ALL the ME wars that has cost the country so much in the last 20 years if he was able. But, before you think he was a pacifist, he was only saving America's 'powder' for Obama's Pivot to China.

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Submitted by Marie on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 10:36pm

@CB
pull out. It was supposed to be gradual over fourteen months. The Taliban agreed not to attack US military, embassy, and support staff. The Taliban also agreed to begin intra-Afghan negotiations that would be facilitate by the US.

Both parties seem to have fudged but the Taliban appears to have honored not attacking US forces. And perhaps the roadblock on those intra-Afghan negotiations wasn't the Taliban but the Ghani government and senior military officers. That last point is similar to how the S. Vietnamese government and military acted after the peace accords. delay, delay, delay and hope the US bucks and military forces keep on keeping on. The little puppet regimes fell quickly when the opposition forces began to move and led to messy final exits.

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Submitted by CB on Sun, 08/29/2021 - 12:47am
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@Marie
blocked Trump from getting it done.

This was the SAME group within the government that also stopped Biden from pulling out of Afghanistan until the last moment. The truth is neither Trump NOR Biden were/are in control. It should be obvious by now that the non-elected 'deep state' pulls the levers of power within the government. How else could that senile old fuck and his know-nothing cackling sidekick run the country.

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Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 08/29/2021 - 1:00am

@CB MIC is responsible for the debacle, and the bombing and threat of bombing is...strange.
I think the same thing would have happened with ANY President, and I say that with no intent to give Biden any sympathy. I regard him as a man whom I would never invite into my home, never regard as a friend, as I do Trump.
The President, as is apparent, is not in control.

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Submitted by Marie on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 11:00pm

@NYCVG
there was no agreement with either the Afghan government nor the Taliban as to the logistics for the military withdrawal. That was up to the Pentagon. With the forces down to 600-700 people, it wasn't practical to add to that number by keeping Bagram staffed and operating. Plus, closing it while an Afghan government still existed was preferable to having it over run by the Taliban when US personnel were still there. Recall that back then the hopeful (or wishful thinking for the standard stinking thinking of US nat sec folks) timeline for the Afghan government was that it would prevail for several months.

I doubt that the US military included a contingency plan to withdraw the remaining forces as quickly as it turned out that they needed to be. They also expected that Afghans that wanted to leave would do so in an orderly fashion over several months. Those people aren't our responsibility. Not that I'm without understanding and empathy for probably most of them.

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 6:27pm
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“We will not rest until those responsible for this senseless, avoidable crisis in Kabul have been removed from this Earth,” said a forceful Biden. “We will unleash everything within our military’s arsenal to stop those who allowed this to happen!”

Unbeknownst to Biden at that very moment, a US military drone was activated and given the White House as its target. Before Biden could finish his speech he was pulled away urgently and briefed on what he’d just done.

“Aw c’mon man! I said kill the terrorists. Not us! What’s the deal, man?” said Biden.

“I’m sorry sir, but unfortunately you said to kill those responsible, Mr. President,” said General Milley. “The drones are quite literal, sir. There’s nothing we can do.”

Ayup we do.

Baghram or the embassy? Why not move the people in the embassy to Baghram and keep it in our hands long enough to get everyone out? I don’t know the distance between the two, but leaving in the middle of the night and leaving all the equipment for whomever wants it just seems very boneheaded. Of course the defense companies will make a killing replacing all of it which might have been configured into the plan.

With all the times we’ve been lied to I don’t know what to think. But blowing away a guy on a motorcycle sure sounds fishy to me. "We got him!" And why did the troops shoot people after the bomb went off? Or did that actually happen? It’s not my fault that I’m so cynical. Not with the number of times we’ve been told some huge propaganda to drive their narratives.

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Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 7:03pm

@snoopydawg

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Submitted by Marie on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 11:35pm

@humphrey
We know that Turkey has had security forces in some areas of the airport. And we know that UAE had an agreement to provide security. Would guess that UAE outsourced the contract and would also guess that as with the Turkey/Qatar proposal, they hired ex-military.

My other guess is that the security forces freaked when the bomb detonated and that there was no covert agenda for the shooting.

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Submitted by QMS on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 7:09pm
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@snoopydawg

it's a bunch of balogna

if our vaulted troops had sane leadership
Bagram would have been the most sensible
exist base. so it just don't add up
especially with this cockamamie excuse
embassy or air field? wtf over

literally ridiculous

“I’m sorry sir, but unfortunately you said to kill those responsible, Mr. President,” said General Milley. “The drones are quite literal, sir. There’s nothing we can do.”

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question everything

Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 7:23pm

@QMS My admittedly Imaginary Scenario is way more plausible that anything we have heard or will be told.

15 years ago I'd worked out HOW I believe the WTC and the nearby Building 7 came down. imploded. (hint--pre-planted explosives triggered after Building #1 was hit.)

Never published it because I was certain that the response I'd get would be a very lengthy pseudo-scientific document about "How Steel Beams React to an Airplane Hitting a Building a block Away."

I learned my lesson then, that the public wants an Official Story. No matter how silly it is. How else could this country function? It has all been lies and most of us know this. But we resist thinking much about it. Including me, usually.

This sorry episode has me considering, at an accelerated rate, how Brittania sunk beneath the waves and how we are quickly heading there ourselves.

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Submitted by NYCVG on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 7:09pm

@snoopydawg Not believing the nonsense we are told is a good start.

I called my essay an imaginary scenario.

Answering with gov't explanations doesn't really make sense.

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 7:02pm
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RT for one who was interviewed after nearly being crushed by the stampede.

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Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 8:19pm

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Submitted by CB on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 9:08pm
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for their country.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyYDH3amrgg]

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Submitted by mimi on Sun, 08/29/2021 - 2:37am
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@CB

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https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by CB on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 9:30pm
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“That feckless, dementia-ridden piece of crap just sent my son to die,” McCollum said. She then blamed Biden’s supporters for her loss, saying, “So my son is gone, and I just want all you Democrats who cheated in the election or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son with a dementia-ridden piece of crap who doesn’t even know he’s in the White House. He still thinks he’s a senator.”

"My son did die in vain. This was an unnecessary debacle, that could have been handled properly. They had months & months to remove everyone from Afghanistan and they chose not to."

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 10:27pm
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@CB

“That feckless, dementia-ridden piece of crap just sent my son to die,"

Greenwald has a tweet saying that even though Biden was warned of an eminent attack he did nothing to stop it, but was able to find the lone guy riding a motorcycle that had planned it so he became bug splatter on the road.

He’s dead right Jim? So how come there’s another warning of another attack? Afghan men should park their bikes for awhile just to be safe. And how smart was it to blow up shit right after an attack happened? Read the room guys. Good grief nothing about this makes any sense.

Meanwhile Israel has bombed Gaza and Syria for days straight and killed another teenager, but I’m betting that Biden didn’t ask the Israeli dude about it. Just said that his administration is going to keep Israel safe. Doubt Israel would be in much danger if they stopped bombing and killing people. Just totally fed up. And guess who is now cheering drone strikes? "He’s MY president and I stand behind him. Good lord!

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 11:29pm
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Guess I stretched the truth a bit…but it’s a good point IMO.

Moon of Alabama doesn’t think it makes sense either.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 11:50pm
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@snoopydawg

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/08/the-never-ending-lies-about-the-wa...

The comments are interesting too. One linked to TASS about a fire at a warehouse storing ammo and more people were killed there too.

Bullet wounds consistent with firing from an elevated platform just like the Maiden square massacre. We know that we were involved with that up to our eyeballs so why not another false flag in Afghanistan by the people who don’t want us to leave? Will one happen here in the near future just to take away any of the freedoms we have left? Do we have any besides the 2nd? Biden’s gunning for it now though.

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Submitted by CB on Sun, 08/29/2021 - 1:01am
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@snoopydawg
just at the beginning of the comment section at MoA you will get the proper link:
The Never Ending Lies About The War On Afghanistan

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Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 08/28/2021 - 11:26pm

sent me a couple of emails. he is appalled by the ineptitude of the withdrawal, says he is seeing calls on both Aussie and GB tv for Biden's impeachment!

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