A Question
Submitted by janis b on Wed, 07/14/2021 - 1:20am
I listen to Radio NZ news occasionally, and even here where we are covid-free it’s generally the major subject of attention. If the incessant coverage of covid makes me who listens little, dizzy, I can hardly imagine how it is impacting others who are constantly bombarded by it. I know it’s important to stay informed, but sometimes I wonder if we all wouldn’t benefit from less information in order to enhance our state of wellbeing?
What do you guys think?
Comments
My veiw on it from New York State in US is different from yours
The US has not been implementing a nationwide plan.
The CDC (Center for Disease Control) issues only guidelines then State governments do what they want.
This has brought about differing levels of vaccination and pockets of infection rates are increasing.
Even the CDC guidelines are ineffective.
They have promulgated that only non-vaccinated people need to wear masks when social distancing is not possible.
I call this the "dishonor system" as you can not trust "vax-holes" to wear a mask as they are often also "mask-holes" among the people here in the US.
Here in New York State the government recently relaxed the masking and distancing rules.
Many people are now acting like nothing ever happened and we are back to the way it was before.
This is foolish and the delta variant along with others coming down the pike will teach them the hard way.
As a fully vaccinated individual I am still practicing N-95 mask wearing and social distancing like nothing has changed from the peak infection rates.
The mainstream national news here is just starting to pick up on the heavy surge in infection where vaccination rates are low.
It's too bad that the children under 12 still can't get a shot even if they wanted one.
Only now are the national news outlets starting to sound the alarm about that.
This is much too little far too late.
Watch for the infection rates to soar in the US as the aftermath of July 4th holiday parties begins to show up. (already happening)
You should be glad that infection rates are low where you are.
There can never be enough information put out there to try and inform the public in my opinion.
I still can't get over the fact that we were forced into mass grave burials in New York City due to too many bodies not that long ago.
Edited to add video of mass burials in NYC April 2020.
Informed consent is difficult or impossible
with experimental therapies that have not been fully researched and tested.
On this point, advocating expanding the experiment to minor children is inconsistent with international conventions prohibiting human experimentation without informed consent. Informed consent, by definition requires providing data based evidence of both efficacy and safety. Since that requisite data does not yet exist, any pretense of the public having been provided with informed consent is only a fictional narrative.
We are already on shaky ethical ground distributing novel gene therapies, waiving normal testing protocols under Emergency Use Authorization. God help us if we now subject our children to a possible lifetime of unintended consequences as we continue to bypass requirements for informed consent.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
I have a quarrel with 2 of your statements
because they reflect misinformation about the vaccines.
First, all normal testing protocols were followed. None were waived.
Second, the vaccines are NOT gene therapy. They have nothing to do with your genes, DNA, or RNA!
I am not interested in quarreling.
I would simply encourage you to listen to this interview of Dr Malone by Katia Txi. He has a different understanding of the points you are questioning. I consider him a reliable source, and makes the complexity of the mRNA discussions more accessible to those of us who are the consumers of these novel vaccines.
If you find him not a reliable source we may find little common ground on the material he covers in this interview.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Mr. Malone's usage of the phrase "gene therapy" is
very different from the normal usage and understanding. As it is commonly used gene therapy is any of an assortment of techniques that alters one or more HUMAN genes in order to attempt to achieve an effect. It is also used in discussing experiments to describe techniques whereby the genes of a target animal or plant are altered. He says that rna is the genetic material of virii and hence using mrna is a per se "gene therapy". Well and good, but absent a clear statement that this specific "gene therapy" doesn't change the genes of the humans who are given the vaccine, that usage seems improper as it implies something that is in fact not true.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I am in the process of researching
Dr. Malone since you seem to feel he is the authority on the subject. I will say this, however. He says he invented this type vaccine. But he seems to have dropped out of research decades ago. Research doctors don't usually invent things all by themselves. They seem to work as part of a team of collaborators. It makes me skeptical of his claims for now.
Being bombarded by conflicting viewpoints
The average mind tends to tune out the noise.
Peddling fear is not in the best interest of solving a crises.
Wellbeing is more important than distraction.
Thanks, Janis!
a healthy fear of catching covid -19 is "healthy"
We all get to make up our own minds about what precautions would be prudent to avoid catching this virus. We each need to be able to filter the truth from the lies in media coverage and messaging from officials. If you make a mistake the results can be catastrophic.
Just sayin'
Agreement
Healthy precautions are sensible.
The lack of consistent messaging
by the authorities weakens peoples'
understanding of what heathy response
looks like, imo.
Science is all about resolving conflicting viewpoints.
The process is inherently messy and sometimes confusing to boot. Not everyone will want to jump in to the deep end of the pool. Most may prefer to let others explore and wait for a consensus to reveal itself.
Personally, I distrust authoritarian edicts and media driven coercive propaganda enough to feel compelled to verify and challenge predominant narratives. This necessarily involves considering alternate or conflicting points of view. This can be very personally disruptive and confusing at times, and I often come away more uncertain about what I thought I understood.
Each of us will find our own way through the maze we are living in. There is no single “right” way to learn, but hopefully we each find ways to keep our personal development moving while still respecting those who walk a different path.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
overinformation through alternative and msm media seems
to lead to confusion and subsequently to distrust, which again makes people mad. Nobody wants to be confused. So, I would say, I agree with you.
I saw myself being influenced in ways I never thought I would be. I used to be a normal science trusting individual. That has gone. Because I read too much. And it had adverse effects.
So, I try to read less. Being so to speak under-informed but over-sensitive to my gut's feelings. I think it is common-sensical to trust your guts and your common sense and let the rest fall where it will, unread or read more or less, ie. mostly.
Wow, that's a clear statement, isn't it? /s
Sigh. Be well, Janis, I always enjoy your photos and comments. Be happy,
https://www.euronews.com/
Thanks for this important discussion!
The focus on Covid is starting to annoy me in the same way some members here have expressed.
Is it mostly "Fear Theater?" Or are the concern and threats real? I do not know.
My clearest view is that this far along in the pandemic, each one of us has made our own decision as to vax or no vax. Wear the mask outside or not. Wear the mask indoors, when there is a choice or not. No amount of media info is likely to change many minds.
Some NYC residents are in open rebellion against wearing masks on public transportation. Governor Cuomo has responded to this by sending his very young and frightened emissary on local TV to BEG commuters to keep their masks on for just a little longer. As far as I can see, this will not work. My mask, and most of my fellow riders masks were worn below our noses or as chinstraps in the past week.
We are tired of Covid and want to move on. If this is crazy thinking we will ceratinly find out soon.
NYCVG
The binary nature of the choices we are presented
with in the media is a big “tell”. Divisiveness only perpetuates social gridlock and frames any discussion of issues within the confines of “which side you’re on?” It is an (unfortunately) effective technique to keep groups at each other’s throats, any benefit accrues to those who sit on top of the pig pile, allowing them to continue to tell others what they may or may not do.
I am so done with that manipulative technique that protects the oligarchs and their henchmen from a unified mob of we rabble. I am neither one or the other. Our only way out is to refuse the divisions being foisted on us to keep us tractable.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Well said.
n/t
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Yup!
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
all of what Oval said
NYCVG
at what risk to others
will you find out soon if blowing off masking protocols in the subway is safe or not?
It doesn't matter that you and others are tired of this pandemic.
It is not that hard to wear a fucking mask for protection of yourself and others around you.
If you are going to use your mask as a chin diaper, you might as well just take it off.
Guess what?
The covid-19 pandemic is not over yet!
From my viewpoint, news reports focus on the wrong sort
Of information. There seems to be a lot of discussion of how many cases and deaths. But there is little or nothing about what Covid 19 does to peoples bodies, the damage it does to heart, lungs, brain even in those with mild cases of the virus. Nor is there much, if any, information about how the vaccines work that gap has been filled by loads of misinformation and outright lies. Also missing is information about the high number of people who are still sick months after having Covid, and the symptoms those people are coping with on their own.
I agree with you that the repetition of how many cases and where is not useful. That information may be important, but not over and over without giving people the sort of information that would help them make informed decisions about taking care of their health.
Reporters seem to mostly be lazy so we get numbers instead of actual useful information.
quality information
Everyone wants to be informed and make the soundest decision about their health as possible. Every single person who got vaccinated did so for well-considered reasons. If they have no further desire to obtain information, skipping an essay or comment is extremely easy.
For those struggling to get vaccinated or not, the occasional flood of information on this site is extremely helpful. They are the ones who should hold the sources to scrutiny. Those who are satisfied with their vaccinations, and the information relied upon to make their decision, are only helpful to the undecided if they have legitimate concerns about the source of information. Otherwise, comments take a tone towards scolding the unvaxxed, and in turn, give rise to the unvaxxed to return the scolding for getting the vax.
Anyone who is vaccinated gets my heartfelt approval and best wishes.
Anyone who is not vaccinated gets my heartfelt approval and best wishes.
It is just not my call to say anyone is an idiot for doing or not doing what they believe is their best health decision during the pandemic.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The risk of hearing or seeing public service announcements
that you are tired of seeing or hearing is pretty far down the list of irritations in my world. I couldn't care less. Don't listen or watch.
Any idea what else couldn't care less? COVID or any virus or any bacteria when it comes to our beliefs, opinions, fears, what we heard from some guy on YT, some media outlet, or random article by a guy who can spell virus, or much of anything except a vulnerable body. Ones with dozens of reasons to not protect itself that sound great in their head or on some blog are just as tasty targets. Screw you and your beliefs and opinions. Viruses and bacteria just loves them some vulnerable host. Your pretty pink or brown or whatever color body is the perfect host to replicate itself and/or hit the lottery by mutating into something far more dangerous. You unvaccinated people are the Powerball win in the genetic lottery for the virus' survival. Thank you very much for enabling the virus to fulfil their only reason to exist. The virus or a bacteria really doesn't care if you survive but only that you survive just long enough that it can reproduce. Go ahead die, I dare ya. We COVID viruses really don't GAF.
Suicide by COVID seems so attractive, no? Maybe murder too if you hatch a really nasty variant or give a plain vanilla variant to those you know or some poor schmuck who had the terrible fate of sitting next to a human incubator on the bus. Randomly spreading your gift to humanity is just icing on the cake. (Ugh, no, gift to the virus. It's going to be better able to survive. You? Not so much.) You get to say "I did it my way!" Ol' Bob next door, not so much. But then again maybe he, or you, will only get the gift that keeps on giving - cardiovascular, brain, or any one of other life altering organ damages. The virus doesn't care but I bet you will.
I don't really care either. I've been fully immunized for six weeks, my wife three, and my son should get his turn in the next few weeks. We'll continue taking reasonable precautions - masks, distancing, hand washing, being careful where we go and who we associate with. There's a tiny chance one or more of us will get COVID but our probability of dying is greatly reduced as is the probability of a severe case. That's not a belief or an opinion. That is the experience, ya know actual information that is also actual evidence not some random some guy's opinion, in countries with high vaccination rates.
Delta and Lamda are here. Ten cases so far identified in the country: 5 dead, 4 unvaccinated, one had the first dose, when unknown. [UPDATE: From newly released information: 10 confirmed Delta cases, all deaths were 40-70 YO with comorbidities, one was a healthcare worker who refused the vaccine. The new neoliberal ex-banker president just declared a state of emergency in the two costal provinces with the cases. Nine of the ten infected with the delta variant in Ecuador were unvaccinated, health officials report] Though statistically insignificant, those numbers, except the 50% death rate, track with countries who have or had massive numbers of infections. It's not even close to time to throw caution to the wind because we can't control our desires for "normality".
I won't be the slightest bit supportive of those who wish to risk killing themselves when an alternative is readily available. You can take consolation in qualifying for a Darwin Award. You could actually receive it if you were alive. Those who survive can enjoy your new life unless, of course, it sucks far more than the one you have now. No Darwin Award to display either. Talk about regretting ones life choices, huh? No, probably not, that would take introspection and the ability to think critically.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Is the point of view
being "you are to stupid to live" the virus point of view? Or yours? I did reduce your comment to the essence. I only allude to the implied Happy Dance over the graves of the unvaxxed, according to the point of view of...someone or "something.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
A bit butthurt are we OTC?
You are once again way out in fantasy land by incorrectly assuming you have the slightest idea about my motivations, what I want or think, or who I am or simply choosing to interpret what I wrote to your purpose. I'm not going respond further than this comment to your nonsense. The virus doesn't much care about you, me, or any of us. Please think, believe, and do whatever you want to. I don't really care. You are a supposedly grown person who will have to live with your life choices. Enjoy.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Hi Janis. I personally ignore most of it, though I
do periodically check for hitherto unknown or unheard facts (extremely rare) or assertions (extremely common).
What we're hearing and reading and seeing has devolved into FUD. That may or may not be of some of the purveyors of the free floating noise, but intended or not, it has become defacto FUD.
I suspect that there are some out there who are still pissed off that we didn't go for the "do nothing and wait for "herd immunity" to happen" model and are generating some of the noise, as well as various other ideological, cultural, and political dogma true believers who find vaccines, or this vaccine, or this disease appropriate targets for their attacks; but it doesn't really matter.
Big issue #1, because of a lot of past study and work with mrna approaches and out progress in understanding and decoding the DNA of virii, the makers of mrna vaccines were able to generate a vaccine radically faster than old style vaccine development, making them suspect at first blush which was enough for numerous cadres to declare them obviously a) phony and b) probably dangerous. Yet, we make damn near anything and everything much more rapidly than we did decades ago of longer. I find this, in and of itself, a non-argument, no matter how often and stridently it is repeated.
#2 The extent of testing and trials was initially unknown and large double-blilnd randomized trials, especially of all possible population cadres were not sufficient to meet existing standards. This led to the unshakable and non-remedial assertion that it hasn't been sufficiently tested as to efficacy and safety. As of today they have given 334,000,000 doses. The entire population as of 2019 was 228,000,000. This isn't perfect textbook methodology and all like that, but that is a pretty damn big sample to simply dismiss as untested as to safety, Glob data, like people dying more or less contemporaneously with getting a shot, even if it were known that that the shots caused the deaths, which in all but very rare cases is not at all true, says the odds against the shot killing you are less than .00003 and they don't have anything beyond correlation for almost all known instances.
#3 we don't know the future, maybe in 20 years your ears will fall off, well, maybe so, not something I tend to worry over however.
And it goes on and on. There were cases of anaphylaxis. That can be triggered in somebody somewhere by damn near anything you can think of. It is not something that this vaccine is especially prone to do as near as anybody can tell, not like bee stings or peanuts, for example.
Nobody is presenting any baseline for any of this, which guarantees fud, intended or not.
There will be cases, even among the vaccinated. Vaccines and masks are optional. Social distancing is optional. When I was a kid we used to run narrow footprint trails along the face of sandstone cliffs, and also dive into breaking surf from said cliffs. Then there was biking and motorcycling off road and even off trail often in precipitous and/or rocky terrain without any protective gear. You can do such things and survive, but it isn't anything I would choose to do today, even if I were in good enough shape to do so. There are frequent news items about anti vax/mask/ belief in the virus/etc. types getting it and dying or getting horribly ill and permanently weakened. Are they particularly at risk because of their behavior? Well, should one roll those dice? At this point I personally would generally advise being on the safe side, unless the gypsy said you are going to be one of the .000027 who shouldn't.
For me, it is currently sufficiently moot to ignore, but many keep seeking certainty. That is human and the fact that certainty is not a component of empirical reality won't stop them, and that creates an audience for it, so it will continue.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Janis a very good question.
For some reason, it feels to me that what we are seeing and feeling is a replacement for Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). Lots to be upset about; are you with us or against us; the range of information from facts to fact free, but you have to choose which is right and which is an illusion.
It seems we will each have to decide how much to read and watch and when to turn it off. We have gardens to build and flowers to tend. We've had 23 inches of rain since the end of April. Others have had none, fires and heat. We all need to live our lives as best we can.
I agree that most may have made up their minds. But I do have a heartfelt set of comments on my own behalf and that of Mr. Meta. We are in a probably small minority who have not had a closed mind one way or the other for personal health reasons that are beyond our control.
Our year plus exposure to mold in our French house made us sick, weak pulmonary, and extremely sensitive to many medications. An additional five months of exposure in our alternative apartment supposed refuge exposed us to CO2, Ozone and other gas exhaust. This added to our sensitivities rather than provide a refuge and place to recover.
Our immune systems are super stressed both hyper and hypo active. It is not easy to rebuild and clean up from something like this. We cannot take antibiotics, allergy meds, and many normal helping medications. Excipients used in pill, injections and other meds are also a big problem because often they are unknown.
We now find ourselves on the other side of a divide we don't want to be a part of.
C99 has been a great source of reference to solid information on treatment. We are using the FLCCC guideline preventive treatment. Plus some other protection for pre and post going out. We have groups of workers from time to time and use provodine in salt water to rinse and gargle with before and after they are gone.
We appreciate having proactive information and actual things we can do from home. We are not just waiting for something to happen. We are taking care of ourselves and those we encounter.
C99 has been a safe and helpful place to read, comment and learn what we can do to help ourselves and those around us. Our fear is the us and them syndrome. There are quite a large number of people who have confounding immune system problems, or diabetes, cancer treatment and other things they can't help which either prevents them from taking meds or needing great care with anything that boost immune function. Most that we know are not casual about protecting others or themselves. Masks are required. Outside get togethers in good breezes with just a few.
I am hoping we can be in this together and not create islands of people.
Thank you for listening.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
I agree dm.
Every person came to this pandemic with a different health status. How dealing with an autoimmune condition or allergies, which a prudent person simply MUST take into consideration, can be conflated with being stupid, or being disappointed we didn't reach herd immunity is just incredible.
I don't imagine you and your spouse ganging up to party with folks and just not give a damn. C'est la vie.
I intend to get an antibodies test. I suspect I got the virus back in December after an overseas vacation. I just ordered Ivermectin.
I am headed to my dr. for a frank discussion, and see if he can give me further advice. He has treated patients with Ivermectin when they were ill.
I have seen some amazing personality changes amongst the vaccinated. They are not just curt, but willing to say that the unvaccinated are so ignorant and dangerous, if they die, good riddance! I read it, I hear it in real life, I have had it said to my face by the vaccinated person I have been close pals with all my life, a preacher's wife!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Since I'm not sure of the provenance of the information
let me just say that I think I had COVID last March (past year), but the obvious antibodies only show for three months. After that they are latent (sleeping) until the next contact. So while you may have immunity, it may not show up.
You are wise to check into everything especially if you think you've had it. Adding the immune response from the shot will boost immunity, which increases Histamine, Cytokine and other systemic responses.
I have to be concerned about allergies to meds and other environmental toxins. I over-react easily, but the response can be delayed over four days. I have been on IViG when I got to the point I could't drink water without setting off a reaction. Scary times.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
Good to talk to your trusted doc. Ask your doc:
Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19
[EDIT: Published today 7/15/2021
Huge study supporting ivermectin as Covid treatment withdrawn over ethical concerns
Most relevant paragraphs:
Seriously, talking to your doctor is important.]
Is it logical to refuse to take something approved by the same body that doesn't approve something different that has only anecdotal indications of benefit but that is specifically not approved or suggested to be effective/safe by the same body?
Not that I think I had any influence in your decision to speak with a physician, I don't, but I'm more than willing to mightily piss off people if they'll simply question their positions that seem counter to their own well being. Personally, I'd lighten up on those who might be a bit overzealous trying to alter your position. Is it possible they might only care about you too much? Any idea what I offer those who I don't think are worthy of using my time or effort? The answer is in the following long paragraph.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Thank you everyone for your personal and informed comments
As they often do, they present open and sincere expressions of your thoughts and perspectives.
Some of you are quite clear and confident in both your responses to media reporting and vaccination, personally and in general; others are still questioning for varied and equally valid reasons.
I personally am unsure about having the vaccination. I have never considered myself to be an ‘anti-vaxxer’ because I have never felt anything other than that decision is a personal one, unique to all. I feel equal respect for whatever one decides for themselves. It’s a difficult decision because each one has to respect their own personal core and experience of what ‘healthy’ means to them; and at the same time take into consideration their families and greater society.
I am quite sure though that the media’s presentation has instilled unnecessary fear which has had an unfavourable effect on peoples relationship with others and their own sense of wellbeing.
Dawn, I agree with you that there is an element of Trump Derangement Syndrome running the show - because that is the way the media have been engaging the public since Trump first announced his candidacy. The fact that ‘candid’ forms the word ‘candidacy’ is quite revealing. Running for office generally promises the opposite, a fair amount of bullshit.
In the end I just hope for all of us to feel a sense of confidence, and comfort, and trust in our personal decisions. I don't think negativity and fear accomplish much good.
go watch nature ;)
Hi Janis,
sorry I missed this... like the bumper sticker said "Free your mind, shoot your TV". But yes TMI, too much information, overload. Some people are overwhelmed, others are addicted to it. Are most intelligent enough to know what is BS narrative and what is not? If you are sucking up all the false MSM propaganda all day every day what becomes of you?
As you think, you are. Which is why we must think positive if we want positive results.
Tune out. It is great for body, mind, and spirit. The art of doing nothing has largely been lost it seems. It is as important to spend time doing nothing as it is to spend time doing something. Our lives are wound up about doing things, except truly relaxing, or thinking. We make fun of daydreamers, contemplators, and meditators. Instead of noticing they aren't stressed and psychotic, and have a grip on reality.
It is so good for you that fisherman and hunters don't even mind it so much when they don't bag quarry. Hence, 'a bad day fishin' is better than a good day at work'.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein
That says it all, dystopian,
at least for me. Thank you.