Sweden Update Redux

Submitted by fire with fire on Thu, 03/11/2021 - 1:24pm

About six weeks ago, I checked into the numbers for Sweden as the Second Wave was cresting. They were doing much better than the USA and many other countries as of then, and I posted this comparison with the USA:

From January 20 through January 26 here are the numbers for the USA and Sweden:
.

USA New Cases
1,065,722
.
Sweden New Cases
22,480
.
.

Adjusted for population differential with USA having more than 30 times the population of Sweden, the Swedish rate is 675,000 -- significantly better than here.
.
USA New Deaths
22,218
.
Sweden New Deaths
130 -- about what it was during the summer months.
'

Adjusted for population differential, the Swedish new death rate is 3900 -- 18% of the US total.

Team Lockdown has been assuring me for the last year that the idiots who run Sweden were murdering their own people due to ignorance of "science" and an idiotic belief in something called, "Herd Immunity" -- which several experts on this board assured me does not exist for this virus.

I still do not understand either end of that argument but I remain highly impressed with the self confident tone of voice of all Team Lockdown Experts. Surely they can rationalize these latest numbers from the USA and Sweden:

March 2, 2021 through March 8, 2021:
.
New USA Deaths --
.
15,556

New Sweden Deaths

48
.

Adjusted for population differential with the USA 30 times larger, the American death rate is more than TEN TIMES that of Sweden.

Team Lockdown is full of rationalizations. Sometimes the death rate does not matter at all -- just the number of cases. You cannot compare Sweden to the USA, it can only be compared to Finland and Norway and any other comparison is idiotic. Funny, nobody mentioned that a year ago when Sweden was leading the world in percapita fatalities and was vilified brutally on this board and on many MSM articles about the one country that did not buy into all the new wisdom about fighting a pandemic through economic shutdown.

I still do not know what the best way to fight the virus would be. But the dishonest crap in support of this bizarre mix of policies is a major tell that something is rotten in the state of America.

Tags:

team lockdown

Vote

Comments

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Thu, 03/11/2021 - 2:05pm

There is something rotten in America

but the whole reason for the pandemic, and what humans don’t get, is the universe is resetting humanity ~ in the whole world, which is why the whole world is affected. Sit back and observe. Enjoy the slow down of society. Change couldn’t come about any other way.

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by Roy Blakeley on Thu, 03/11/2021 - 7:13pm

Sweden

Sweden has completely abandoned its previous strategy to allow people to become infected. They have acknowledged that it was a serious mistake that has unnecessarily cost lives. They are now vigorously attempting to prevent infections. Their strategies are now as stringent as most European states.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-29/why-sweden-has-tighte...

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 03/11/2021 - 10:11pm

Well, I have no clue who TEAM LOCKDOWN is, but

presumably they don't fully agree with TEAM ANYTHING_GOES and TEAM NO_PRECAUTIONS. I personally wouldn't say that Sweden can only be compared to the Scandinavian countries, but I would tend to agree that is is most comparable to them and more meaningfully compared to them than to other European countries, and more to Europe than Africa, Asia or the Americas. As to comparing Sweden to the US, that's fine, but it isn't like apples to apples or even apples to oranges, more like cucumbers to deep fried chocolate dipped pork fat. Hell, you cannot even compare the US to the US, Miami v Houston v Brownsville v Aspen v Philly v Flint v Provo v Berkeley or Irvine v Bakersfield v Nome, etc. Does a Volvo or Saab sedan get better mileage than a Humvee? Yeah, so? I mean, you can compare them, or a dingy and a super yacht, but the point, if any, is seriously diluted by the extreme lack of true comparability.

Not sure of Sweden's exact demographics, but I know that their population is healthier than ours, and has a healthier lifestyle. They have a better diet and get more exercise. They have a greater life expectancy at birth and overall and a lot less obesity. They also have healthcare, real healthcare. That's just the tip of it, but ... That right there would explain why they have better Covid-19 stats than we do, the question is why their stats are so radically worse than other Scandinavian countries which are so much more comparable. Maybe it's the Lutefisk, maybe the Lefsa, could be anything I guess. The other mystery is why people keep trying to compare them to the US and why nobody wants to compare either to China or Vietnam.

I am curious how they fared this winter relative to South Dakota but not enough to look it up. I just know that South Dakota was on the Trump Team Anything Goes train and then their casedemic went lethal and their elected officials expressed serious regrets for their prior policies and tried to reverse them. In fact, as opposed to all of Europe where there were allegedly nothing but ordinary, no fatalities involved casedemics, a lot of US casedemics went lethal, but, then again, it is a novel virus, so there should be some novel casedemics too, and there isn't any really good reason why they shouldn't all happen here and none in Europe. But that's a whole other puzzle and I've got packing to do.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 03/11/2021 - 10:35pm

And enjoy your trip, EL, and your comment

@enhydra lutris is spot on.
Funny how our government sends us home in a hurricane aftermath, distributes mre's, water, etc...
But not in a pandemic.

presumably they don't fully agree with TEAM ANYTHING_GOES and TEAM NO_PRECAUTIONS. I personally wouldn't say that Sweden can only be compared to the Scandinavian countries, but I would tend to agree that is is most comparable to them and more meaningfully compared to them than to other European countries, and more to Europe than Africa, Asia or the Americas. As to comparing Sweden to the US, that's fine, but it isn't like apples to apples or even apples to oranges, more like cucumbers to deep fried chocolate dipped pork fat. Hell, you cannot even compare the US to the US, Miami v Houston v Brownsville v Aspen v Philly v Flint v Provo v Berkeley or Irvine v Bakersfield v Nome, etc. Does a Volvo or Saab sedan get better mileage than a Humvee? Yeah, so? I mean, you can compare them, or a dingy and a super yacht, but the point, if any, is seriously diluted by the extreme lack of true comparability. Not sure of Sweden's exact demographics, but I know that their population is healthier than ours, and has a healthier lifestyle. They have a better diet and get more exercise. They have a greater life expectancy at birth and overall and a lot less obesity. They also have healthcare, real healthcare. That's just the tip of it, but ... That right there would explain why they have better Covid-19 stats than we do, the question is why their stats are so radically worse than other Scandinavian countries which are so much more comparable. Maybe it's the Lutefisk, maybe the Lefsa, could be anything I guess. The other mystery is why people keep trying to compare them to the US and why nobody wants to compare either to China or Vietnam. I am curious how they fared this winter relative to South Dakota but not enough to look it up. I just know that South Dakota was on the Trump Team Anything Goes train and then their casedemic went lethal and their elected officials expressed serious regrets for their prior policies and tried to reverse them. In fact, as opposed to all of Europe where there were allegedly nothing but ordinary, no fatalities involved casedemics, a lot of US casedemics went lethal, but, then again, it is a novel virus, so there should be some novel casedemics too, and there isn't any really good reason why they shouldn't all happen here and none in Europe. But that's a whole other puzzle and I've got packing to do. be well and have a good one

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by fire with fire on Fri, 03/12/2021 - 12:17pm

February 28, 2021

@enhydra lutris .
.

Sweden has avoided a COVID-19 lockdown so far: Has its strategy worked?

LONDON -- Sweden’s novel approach to tackling the coronavirus pandemic has drawn both praise and fierce criticism, not just inside the Scandinavian country, but across the Western world. The country has so far resisted going into lockdown, unlike the rest of Europe, even during the peak of its second wave over Christmas.

In doing so, Sweden has become a lightning rod for those in favor and against stricter social distancing measures. For some, its significantly higher COVID death rate compared to its neighbors is proof that lockdowns are essential to combat the spread, while for others, the comparative openness of Swedish society proves that a “balanced” approach to the pandemic is possible.

Question: Who is Team Lockdown

Answer: You and everybody like you

presumably they don't fully agree with TEAM ANYTHING_GOES and TEAM NO_PRECAUTIONS. I personally wouldn't say that Sweden can only be compared to the Scandinavian countries, but I would tend to agree that is is most comparable to them and more meaningfully compared to them than to other European countries, and more to Europe than Africa, Asia or the Americas. As to comparing Sweden to the US, that's fine, but it isn't like apples to apples or even apples to oranges, more like cucumbers to deep fried chocolate dipped pork fat. Hell, you cannot even compare the US to the US, Miami v Houston v Brownsville v Aspen v Philly v Flint v Provo v Berkeley or Irvine v Bakersfield v Nome, etc. Does a Volvo or Saab sedan get better mileage than a Humvee? Yeah, so? I mean, you can compare them, or a dingy and a super yacht, but the point, if any, is seriously diluted by the extreme lack of true comparability. Not sure of Sweden's exact demographics, but I know that their population is healthier than ours, and has a healthier lifestyle. They have a better diet and get more exercise. They have a greater life expectancy at birth and overall and a lot less obesity. They also have healthcare, real healthcare. That's just the tip of it, but ... That right there would explain why they have better Covid-19 stats than we do, the question is why their stats are so radically worse than other Scandinavian countries which are so much more comparable. Maybe it's the Lutefisk, maybe the Lefsa, could be anything I guess. The other mystery is why people keep trying to compare them to the US and why nobody wants to compare either to China or Vietnam. I am curious how they fared this winter relative to South Dakota but not enough to look it up. I just know that South Dakota was on the Trump Team Anything Goes train and then their casedemic went lethal and their elected officials expressed serious regrets for their prior policies and tried to reverse them. In fact, as opposed to all of Europe where there were allegedly nothing but ordinary, no fatalities involved casedemics, a lot of US casedemics went lethal, but, then again, it is a novel virus, so there should be some novel casedemics too, and there isn't any really good reason why they shouldn't all happen here and none in Europe. But that's a whole other puzzle and I've got packing to do. be well and have a good one

—

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by fire with fire on Wed, 03/17/2021 - 10:50am

Braindead mistake on my part

@fire with fire .
.

This should have been addressed to Roy Blakely.

My apology to enhydra lutris who made no claim about Sweden.

When I read the sparse responses to this post, I had no idea what was going on in Sweden other than the aggregate numbers from the global health bureaucracy. I had heard the mea culpa from at least one big shot in Sweden last summer that got hyped like a mo-fo, but I really did not know what if any change Sweden made in its policy. That is really beside my point -- which is about the organized bullshit in support of Lock Down is Good No Discussion Allowed.

I was surprised to see that ABC, a charter member of the American Establishment, was giving some actual consideration to the thought that there might be other valuable considerations other than slowing or stopping the spread of Covid. I still take no position as to what is the BEST way to limit the damage from the virus -- but I will fight like hell against any asshole who claims to speak for Science and says that Science says, "Here is the RIGHT way!"

The sneering condemnation of Sweden makes my stomach turn. Not because Sweden is doing it the right way or the best way -- but because nobody knows what the best way is.

Final, final, final note: I now repeat what I said several months ago on this board -- this ain't over and there is no way to evaluate who did it best until we reach the end. According to the guys at Pfizer, we could well be taking their shots every year forever.

And according to our own Science Czar, Dr. Fouci, we could get a third wave.

Once all the dead bodies are counted, and all the collateral effects of the successful effort of Team Lockdown to shut sown a sizable portion of the productive effort on the planet are fully assessed, we can make some intelligible assessment of how the various polities dealt with it.

The glib shit like "Trump murdered half a million Americans" is propaganda and it implies that every country murdered all their victims because they did not shut down completely.

Had they done so, we'd all be starved by now.

Cheers all.

—

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by coolepairc on Wed, 03/17/2021 - 11:39am

So, I looked up South Dakota...

@enhydra lutris
Current data-Deaths/1M pop rate (w/rank)
8. South Dakota 2,161

Sweden compared to US states
33. Montana 1,302
xx. Sweden 1,296
34. Minnesota 1,208

About Asia, New Zealand, etc., my niece lives in a zero-covid region and lives relatively normally, does not mask or social distance, goes to parties and basically lives as before covid. I remember when New Zealand Prime Minister Ardern won reelection in October, seeing her swarmed by reporters up close to her and each other, without masks. It's ironic but the very strict restrictions are extremely targeted and short duration.

In my opinion, the zero-covid nations have won the covid policy debate.

presumably they don't fully agree with TEAM ANYTHING_GOES and TEAM NO_PRECAUTIONS. I personally wouldn't say that Sweden can only be compared to the Scandinavian countries, but I would tend to agree that is is most comparable to them and more meaningfully compared to them than to other European countries, and more to Europe than Africa, Asia or the Americas. As to comparing Sweden to the US, that's fine, but it isn't like apples to apples or even apples to oranges, more like cucumbers to deep fried chocolate dipped pork fat. Hell, you cannot even compare the US to the US, Miami v Houston v Brownsville v Aspen v Philly v Flint v Provo v Berkeley or Irvine v Bakersfield v Nome, etc. Does a Volvo or Saab sedan get better mileage than a Humvee? Yeah, so? I mean, you can compare them, or a dingy and a super yacht, but the point, if any, is seriously diluted by the extreme lack of true comparability. Not sure of Sweden's exact demographics, but I know that their population is healthier than ours, and has a healthier lifestyle. They have a better diet and get more exercise. They have a greater life expectancy at birth and overall and a lot less obesity. They also have healthcare, real healthcare. That's just the tip of it, but ... That right there would explain why they have better Covid-19 stats than we do, the question is why their stats are so radically worse than other Scandinavian countries which are so much more comparable. Maybe it's the Lutefisk, maybe the Lefsa, could be anything I guess. The other mystery is why people keep trying to compare them to the US and why nobody wants to compare either to China or Vietnam. I am curious how they fared this winter relative to South Dakota but not enough to look it up. I just know that South Dakota was on the Trump Team Anything Goes train and then their casedemic went lethal and their elected officials expressed serious regrets for their prior policies and tried to reverse them. In fact, as opposed to all of Europe where there were allegedly nothing but ordinary, no fatalities involved casedemics, a lot of US casedemics went lethal, but, then again, it is a novel virus, so there should be some novel casedemics too, and there isn't any really good reason why they shouldn't all happen here and none in Europe. But that's a whole other puzzle and I've got packing to do. be well and have a good one