[Updated] MSNBC Democrats
Matt Taibbi recently coined the term MSNBC Democrats to describe those who primarily get their news from MSNBC instead of other sources. They are more likely to believe Russiagate is a fact. According to new polling data, they are also far more likely to believe the economy is bad.
The online poll, by data firm Morning Consult, asks the same five core questions as the University of Michigan’s well-known consumer sentiment survey, and for nearly two years has been collecting about 210,000 responses a month, compared to 500 or so each month for the Michigan survey.
American voters face the same set of economic facts, from low unemployment to the risks from a trade war, but the survey’s index of overall sentiment - at 108 just above the 100 line that separates positive from negative impressions of the economic outlook - masked the huge divide between those who approve of Trump, whose views measured a far rosier 136, and those who disapprove of the president, with a reading of 88.
The results, weighted by factors like age, race and sex, to be nationally representative, were similarly skewed based on media consumption. Viewers of conservative-leaning Fox News registered 139 for current sentiment about the economy; viewers of MSNBC, an outlet often critical of Trump, registered 89. Readers of the New York Times sat in the middle at 107, near those who get their news from Facebook (110) and Twitter (112).
Source: Watch Fox News? You likely think the U.S. economy is great. MSNBC viewers not so much -- Reuters, 10/24/2019
This chart from the article shows respondents' view of the economy by news source:
The results shouldn't be surprising to anyone paying attention. MSNBC is in the liberal fake news business while Fox is in the conservative fake news business. Interestingly, the New York Times falls in the middle. This sort of makes sense. While I don't trust their political reporting, especially anything Russiagate related, their coverage of the economy does seem to be fair and balanced.
[Update]
Here's additional information on the cited survey. It's based on the Conference Board's Consumer Confidence Index, which has been conducted since 1985. Morning Consult's version of the survey is conducted online and ncludes more people than the 5,000 surveyed by Conference Board.
Measuring Consumer Confidence
Consumer confidence, measured by the Consumer Confidence Index (CCI), is defined as the degree of optimism about the state of the economy that consumers (like you and me) are expressing through their activities of saving and spending. The CCI is prepared by the Conference Board and was first calculated and benchmarked in 1985. This value is adjusted monthly based on the results of a household survey of consumers' opinions on current conditions and future economic expectations. Opinions on current conditions make up 40% of the index, with expectations of future conditions comprising the remaining 60%.
In the glossary on its website, the Conference Board defines the Consumer Confidence Survey as "a monthly report detailing consumer attitudes and buying intentions, with data available by age, income, and region." In the most simplistic terms, when their confidence is trending up, consumers spend money, indicating a healthy economy. When confidence is trending down, consumers are saving more than they are spending, indicating the economy is in trouble. The idea is the more confident people feel about the stability of their incomes, the more likely they are to make purchases.
The survey consists of five questions about the following:
Present Situation Index
- Respondents’ appraisal of current business conditions
- Respondents’ appraisal of current employment conditions
Expectations Index
- Respondents’ expectations regarding business conditions six months hence
- Respondents’ expectations regarding employment conditions six months hence
- Respondents’ expectations regarding their total family income six months hence
Source: Understanding the Consumer Confidence Index -- Investopedia
Comments
Question
Why is Caucus99Percent not in that list?!? That's where I get my economic news . . .
/snark (but not really snark)
Yes, that's not really snark.
We learn far more from gjohnsit's essays than we ever will from the MSM.
Ummm ... edg, the Economy IS Bad
I think the economy is shit, personally, and professionally. It’s pretty expensive to live these days.
Negative interest rates are not what I would expect in a functioning economy... And say nothing of corporate balance sheets, gold repatriation and denials of repatriation, Q4, and a shit ton of big banksters just dying to have a bail-in.
But, I think that the MSNBC Democrat would simply blame Drumpf.
Just found it an interesting angle to essay. Stopped clocks and whatnot.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Purveyed Perceptions
Beliefs are a wonderful thing. Humans seek out information sources that confirm their existing beliefs. Were you as pessimistic when Obama was president? All the things you cite existed then, too. As the survey established, where you get your information (and what your political beliefs are) shapes your outlook. Even without TV, we're still exposed to biased or one-sided information.
Fox News
Fulltime employment as tracked in the Labor Participation Rate is at a record high. Measured unemployment is at 60 year lows. Black and Hispanic unemployment are at record lows. Interest rates are at levels not seen since the 1960s. The stock market is near record highs. Yadda yadda yadda.
MSNBC
Mortgage defaults are rising. Wages adjusted for inflation haven't risen in 35 years. The Federal deficit and Federal debt are at record levels. Trump's trade war is devastating soy farmers. The overnight rate is crashing. All newly created jobs are low-paying part-time gigs. Yadda yadda yadda.
I Was as Aggressive on Obama’s
Stewardship of the economy - probably more rough on him than Drumpf because he is obviously a tool. Obama talked a good game and people believed it.
Like many of us here, I’m on the edge economically speaking. I’m also not a paycheck guy, living on “long money” - gig to gig with elective spending - it tanked it late 2016-2017 in my experience.
I get the idea that MSNBC Dems are buying whatever is being sold on MSNBC. I’m simply saying that correlation is not causation.
I’ve gotten the Econ news of late, and it don’t look good. When the news and markets start to talk about it, the move has been made and all the important investors are already out.
Thanks for the update.
Peace
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I try to take the long view.
My perception is that the downward spiral of the US economy began with Kennedy's tax cut compounded by wasteful spending on the Vietnam War and then exacerbated by Nixon and Carter's deregulation (buttressed by the 2 oil crises of the 70s) followed by massive disruption caused by Reagan's triple whammy of tax cuts and spending and middle-class evisceration, including the beginning of the demise of unions. Then, of course, Clinton's foolish financial deregulation and Bush Jr. and Trump's unnecessary and expensive tax cuts.
In other words, after 15 or 20 good years following World War II, the 1% decided the rest of us had it too good and they set about successfully extracting wealth from the rest of us while turning us into a debtor nation.
Have You Read This?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/how-democrats-kille...
I too hold a much longer view - my earliest memories of my life are populated with derelict factories with broken windows in Detroit. Born in 73...
I’d also mention the Powell Memo as a seminal historical moment in this discussion.
Peace
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
You're a Detroiter?
I was born at Holy Cross Hospital on the East Side of Detroit in 1955. Me and my brothers used to play in some of those factories with broken windows. We lived in the Charles Terrace housing project until late 1962, then we moved uptown to the 9 Mile & Sherwood area in Warren. I graduated from Center Line High School in 1973 and joined the Army shortly after. Moved to Maryland in 1984, then Virginia, and finally here to Arizona in 2004.
First I've ever heard
that our economic woes began with Kennedy's tax cut.(??) Your own theory or surmise or do you have a cite? It was actually intended as an economic stimulus, the fear being that in previous years the economy had experienced various levels of recessions every few yrs; JFK wanted to avoid that as he headed into a re-elect year.
His plan initially was for a middle-class and below tax cut to stimulate consumer spending along with tax reform, primarily to remove a number of tax loopholes for the rich. Then he heard from Wilbur Mills, iirc, of Ways and Means fame, who said it wouldn't pass unless it was a tax cut for all income levels and for corps. Kennedy in 1963, short of a progressive congressional majority, had no choice but to compromise. The bill was passed shortly after Dallas, beginning of '64.
My recollection of seeing economic statistics from the 60s into the 70s was of a strong economy. Definitely the high cost of the unnecessary VN War both added to certain economic stimulus and baked in problems that showed up later (delay in tax hikes to pay for it among others). The major downturns and inflationary problems emerged in the late 70s under Carter (high inflation, stagflation) and into the 80s under reckless Reagan.
The tax cut helped trigger inflation.
Combined with spending on Vietnam, the reduced revenue from the tax cut contributed to deficits and major inflation in the second half of the 1960s. I was born in 1955. I well remember the inflation of the 60s.
I Was as Aggressive on Obama’s
Stewardship of the economy - probably more rough on him than Drumpf because he is obviously a tool. Obama talked a good game and people believed it.
Like many of us here, I’m on the edge economically speaking. I’m also not a paycheck guy, living on “long money” - gig to gig with elective spending - it tanked it late 2016-2017 in my experience.
I get the idea that MSNBC Dems are buying whatever is being sold on MSNBC. I’m simply saying that correlation is not causation.
I’ve gotten the Econ news of late, and it don’t look good. When the news and markets start to talk about it, the move has been made and all the important investors are already out.
Thanks for the update.
Peace
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
The important question is just what a “good economy” means.
If you’re a hard core capitalist, an economy that grows capital is “good”. Whether the capital is concentrated in the hands of a very few while the rest struggle to make ends meet is irrelevant.
If you’re an egalitarian humanist, an economy that distributes resources and opportunities evenly among humans is “good”. Growth of capital is less important than how it’s distributed.
If you’re an environmentalist, an economy that strives to minimize adverse impacts to the larger web of life on the planet and that places sustainability and diversity of species ahead of growth or primarily on the well being of the human species. Economic retraction may serve those priorities far better than a vibrant and growing economy.
And so on......
When a poll asks a question that hinges on the meaning of the word “good” and does not differentiate among the myriad meanings of that word among the respondents of that poll, it’s pretty much a given that the results will be of very little value, or of none at all.
Humans are very good at differentiating, but not so good at seeing the larger, interconnected whole. Babel comes to mind, especially during our quadrennial Presidential silly seasons when the divisions of identity politics rule.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Based on standard survey done since 1985
The Morning Consult survey cited in this essay is based on the Conference Board's Consumer Confidence Index. It's 5 core questions are:
Present Situation Index
Expectations Index
Just the opposite of the dynamic in former East Germany
When it comes to electoral politics, The Powers That Be would prefer economic negatives to be played down, to avoid making right-wing populist critics look good and neoliberal E.U. globalizers and central bankers look bad.
So by and large the establishment media — particularly the tax-supported “public” media — have been trying to sell a narrative to Mr. and Ms. Average German that, yes, there have been some bumps in the road, but overall “you never had it so good,” as a whole everything’s swell, and mass migration and open borders will make it all even better, just you wait.
Of course now, PR-wise, with the climate crisis, Extinction Rebellion — “good” populism versus “bad” populism like Pegida — and Greta Thunberg, a big pivot is underway. “Oh, sorry, things are not swell at all, it turns out our whole Western economic system is actually a monstrous threat. Aaand, what this means is, what little bits of freedom and comfort and sovereignty you managed to eke out since the Wall came down, all you ordinary folks are gonna have to sacrifice to the strictures our green, wise planning elite will decree, or else everything on the planet will die!!”
The conclusion I draw from those poll results
is that they've all been brainwashed.
MSNBC viewers, FOX viewers, NYT readers -- they're all just repeating what they've been taught to believe by their preferred corporate media outlet.
They're allowing their attention to be funnelled. Whatever critical thinking skills they may have are focused very narrowly on whatever is brought into their view by their preferred media. And they're thinking about it in the ways they've been trained to think.
Their minds have been captured. They're being manipulated emotionally and intellectually. All of them.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Exactly.
People seek out media sources that confirm their existing beliefs.
Basic problem
with economic views are they come from economists. Short take is if the stock market is doing well the economy is doing great. Just about every economist didn't see 2007 coming until it hit us like a ton of bricks. Also remember that from the economists judgement the Great Recession lasted exactly 9 months, until the stock market recovered. For us, it never ended. Most Americans aren't in the stock market.
We live in a country that subsidized tobacco as a crop and allowed the cigarette companies to lie for 70 years that smoking doesn't cause cancer. All the arguments to banning tobacco always came down to possible negative economic effects to Wall Street, so little was done until the science and health damage was unhideable. That's our economy in action.
I would say that when the basics, housing, food, health care, education, ability to borrow and transportation are getting farther and farther out of reach the economy is not doing well no matter what economists say.
Survey
The survey in this essay measures consumer's sentiment. You can argue that it's driven by what consumers are fed by economists through their media sources, but the gist of the Consumer Confidence Index is what ordinary folks believe about their own economic situation.
You're right, about both
On the survey and what I was trying to get across about the information people are given on the economy. When a large percentage of our households are unable to lay their hands on $600 to cover an emergency, and have zero savings, either they're fooling themselves or they're not part of the survey. No dissing you, I just don't trust the surveys, or economists.
i agree.
Economists have their own biases and surveys only capture a moment in time and are subjective as hell.
Just hearing the term MSNBC
Just hearing the term MSNBC Democrat makes my neck tense up.
Same here
Probably because when MSNBC Democrats are around, so are the words "You're a Russian troll! Those are Russian talking points!"
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
MSNBC Democrats are crazy,
but NPR Dems are even worse. They're smug and condescending but, in reality, they're low-information folks just like any television-head.
That said, I consider all these stories about a booming economy to be fake news.
Does anybody really believe that a crash is not just around the corner ?
"Consumer sentiment" surveys just measure the effectiveness of Wall St. propaganda.
Stock prices are divorced from reality and would be much lower were it not for buy-backs.
There's something screwy going on with the Fed and the repo market.
The Labor Participation Rate has not recovered and almost all of the new jobs are low-wage gigs. We are still suffering from a crisis of consumer demand.
Booming economy ? I don't think so and I never watch MSNBC. I don't even have cable or satellite TeeVee.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Max and Stacy certainly agree with you
As you well know their big concept is that fiat currency is without true value.
Here's their latest...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9KQDUkUNhg]
playing on halloween they say paper is just the ghost of money.
So if our economy is so great why are banks and other countries selling dollars and buying gold? And let's see, negative interest rate are the ultimate indicator of a dying economy.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”