Saber-rattling against Iran hits a ferocious level: Updated

I'm sorta sorry that this diary had gotten thread-jacked by some dude, although it's been gratifying to learn that so many of you would like to know more 9/11 truth, and have delved deeper into the original whitewashed version than i might have imagined. That said, you might look at the bottom of the comments section to see what one iteration of the false flags to make war on Iran might be.

Who can leash the Dogs of War before they’re let slip in earnest?  Perhaps Chinese or Russian diplomats?  As allies, both nations would be included in a regional war, and both nations excel in diplomacy.  In the past we’d heard that some of his Generals had known what a nightmare war on Iran would be for US allies…now? Who can say?

Via wsws.org May 11, 2019: ‘With B-52s, carrier battle group in place, US war against Iran on a hair trigger’ (some key paragraphs)

“The USS Abraham Lincoln carrier strike group made its way through the Suez Canal on Thursday entering the Red Sea and the heart of the Middle East, while a US bomber task force consisting of four nuclear-capable B-52s landed on the same day at a US airbase in Qatar. The two military deployments have placed the threat of a major and catastrophic new war in the region on a hair trigger.”

“The regime in Tehran should understand that any attacks by them or their proxies of any identity against US interests or citizens will be answered with a swift and decisive US response,” Pompeo said. “Our restraint to this point should not be mistaken by Iran for a lack of resolve. To date, the regime’s default option has been violence, and we appeal to those in Tehran who see a path to a prosperous future through de-escalation to modify the regime’s behavior.”

Pompeo’s remarks were echoed by those of the recently appointed chief of the US Central Command (CENTCOM), which is responsible for US military operations in the Middle East, Marine General Frank McKenzie, who delivered an inflammatory address to the right-wing, pro-Zionist think tank, the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

“Any attack on US interests will be met with unrelenting force,” the general told the Foundation, which was used by George W. Bush as a forum for defending his war policy against Iraq. Reflecting the bipartisan support for US imperialist aggression in the oil-rich Middle East, the think tank includes on its advisory board Donna Brazile, the former chairperson of the Democratic National Committee.”

Van Auken reminds readers that  year ago this month, the Trump administration had abrogated the JCPOA that had been forged among Iran and the US, Russia, China, Germany, the UK and France, and began laying down increasingly heavy sanctions against Iran in order to strangle its economy and bring it to its knees in order to install a US puppet government.  He quotes an advisory issued by US Maritime Administration (MARAD):

““Iran or its proxies could respond by targeting commercial vessels, including oil tankers, or US military vessels in the Red Sea, Bab-el-Mandeb Strait, or the Persian Gulf. Reporting indicates heightened Iranian readiness to conduct offensive operations against US forces and interests.”

He then rightly advises us that the Pentagon, CIA, Israel or Saudi Arabia might be able to construct a provocation (read false flag) for attacks by War, Inc.™  But this news is chilling:

“NBC News revealed that last week top Trump administration officials convened a highly unusual summit meeting at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia to discuss the war buildup against Iran. Present were CIA Director Gina Haspel, Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joe Dunford, Secretary of State Pompeo, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and others, US officials told the network.

The officials told NBC that the session was not convened to discuss the supposed “intelligence” about alleged Iranian plans for attacks on “US interests” that served as the pretext for the dispatching of the carrier battle group and the bomber strike force to the region. The evidence to substantiate the claims of impending Iranian “aggression” is as fabricated as that used to bolster the claims about “weapons of mass destruction” in advance of the 2003 US invasion of Iraq.

What were these officials talking about in the CIA’s bunker in Langley? Former CIA operations officers and military officials told NBC that such meetings at CIA headquarters are normally convened to discuss highly sensitive plans for “covert actions.” Whether such actions will be aimed against Iran and its government, or at staging a “false flag” operation somewhere in the Middle East that can be used as the pretext for a US attack remains to be seen.”

‘US deploying even more missiles to Middle East as Iran saber-rattling reaches fever pitch’, 11 May, 2019, RT.com

“The US is sending a battery of Patriot missiles to join the carrier strike group and bomber task force currently “protecting” American interests in the Middle East from Iran, still insisting the buildup is merely defensive.

The missiles and transport ship USS Arlington are being deployed to the region “in response to indications of heightened Iranian readiness to conduct offensive operations against US forces and our interests,” according to a Pentagon statement.


“The latest round of heavy weaponry joins the USS Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Group and an Air Force bomber task force, both of which arrived in the Central Command region this week to send an “unmistakable message,” in the words of National Security Advisor John Bolton, that the US is prepared to unleash “unrelenting force” in response to any provocation. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo echoed the threat on Thursday, promising a “swift and decisive” response to an attack by Iran – or its proxies.

Details about the “intelligence” used as a pretext for the military buildup have been scarce, though multiple reports suggest the tip came from Israel’s Mossad, which is far from a neutral source when it comes to Iran. A CNN report on Friday claimed “intelligence has shown” Iran is “likely” loading short-range ballistic and cruise missiles onto boats belonging to the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, which President Donald Trump conveniently declared a terrorist organization last month. The US military, CNN said, “believes that cruise missiles could be launched from the small Iranian boats.”

Mossad may not be a neutral source, but the organization sure would know how to create false intelligence that would please US war-mongers.

“”We have been very clear that we have no interest in escalation,” Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif told Al Jazeera earlier this week, adding that Iran would not “permit the US to threaten the Persian Gulf.” Last month, he warned Trump that the more hawkish members of his administration might conduct a false-flag attack to push the US into war with Iran.”

Jake Johnson at strategicculture.org on May 11, 2019 advises readers that:

“Shanahan worked at Boeing, one of the world’s largest defense contractors, for more than 30 years before joining the Trump administration.

In a move critics warned could further deepen the ties between the sprawling and immensely profitable private weapons industry and the U.S. government, the White House announced Thursday that President Donald Trump will nominate former Boeing executive Patrick Shanahan to head the Pentagon.”

‘War is a racket’ ~ Smedley Butler

While noting that Gordon Duff can be a bit (ahem) histrionic at times, thus file this under FWIW, at veteranstoday.com, May 11 he asks ‘Intel Drop: Will an Israeli Sub Sink the Abraham Lincoln?

Following paragraphs of not terribly relevant rants, then Bibi as author of the ‘fake intel’ on Iranian boats carrying missiles, etc.) he finally gets here:

“What we know:

Israel has gotten ahold of a batch of “off the books” production of a highly capable Norwegian-built missile that the US is looking at in order to deploy tactical nuclear weapons with the F35. The Konigsberg NSM or Naval Strike Missile has been sold to a number of countries, but most of the sales have been “off the books.”

Israel has 5 German-built Dolphin Submarines that are modified to carry missiles like these, and larger variants of cruise missiles as well, such as the one that hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Israel has deployed cruise type missiles from their submarines on several occasions.”

And last, from Sputniknews.com May 12 (today): ‘Iran‘s IRGC Commander: ‘If America Makes a Move, We’ll Hit Them in the Head’

“Separately, Al Jazeera quoted Salami as saying that it’s unlikely that the US will use its aircraft carriers against Iran.

He argued that Iran’s defence capabilities are “adequate and sufficient”, while the US aircraft carriers are quite vulnerable, which is why “Washington will not take a risk [using the carriers against the Islamic Republic]”.

Salami’s remarks followed a statement by Vice Admiral Jim Malloy, commander of the US Navy’s Bahrain-based Fifth Fleet, that he does not rule out sending the Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier to the strategic Strait of Hormuz in light of Washington’s tensions with Tehran.

If I need to bring it inside the strait, I will do so. I’m not restricted in any way, I’m not challenged in any way, to operate her anywhere in the Middle East,” Malloy told Reuters.”

“Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has meanwhile stressed that the Islamic Republic is facing an “all-out war” due to unprecedented restrictive US economic and political measures and that Tehran “should not accept submission and should try to find a solution”.”

ach; i'd forgotten this diplomat's appeals to the CIA insurgency and shame on me.

(cross-posted from Café Babylon)

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Comments

I am beginning to think that both Bolton and Pompaeo want to start a war with Iran/Syrai before the election. I believe any attack on Iran will also involve an attack on Syria and the Assad regime probably together with Israel.

They may see Trump losing the election and their whole neocon project going away for maybe a generation. A democrat would probably renegotiate Obama's deal, and may keep the status quo or back off from Venezeula. An attack now will force a democrat to continue the conflict if Iran does any serious damage to the Navy fleet or if Iran/Syria and Hezbollah attack Israel.

Just need some false flag to get it all started.

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@MrWebster lose the election if he starts any more wars.

And maybe that is exactly what the neocons want. After all, who made a campaign promise to stop US intervention? It certainly wasn't the dems.

"They may see Trump losing the election and their whole neocon project going away for maybe a generation."

The neocon project is not going away, probably, ever. They have deep tentacles everywhere. Your belief that some dem would cause problems for the neocons is surprising, given that dems almost wholly support neocons' objectives.

Who is being pushed at the top of the ticket? Biden.

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dfarrah

wendy davis's picture

@MrWebster

and saudi arabia are both jonesin' for a major war on iran, and given that bibi and trump are BFFs now, as are he and the clown prince. the timing may be about the election, but certainly might not be given how long away that is.

now whoever the next US prez turns out to be he/she might joint the JCPOA again, but the neocon project ending i find dubious, myself. remember obomba: "VZ is a direct threat to US security, no options, including military are off the table".

but yes, syria is another proxy war, and has been ground zero for pipelineistan (pepe escobar) since the start of the cia astroturfed "insurrection". but isn't the US still very busy in syria? but yeah, you can fairly smell false flags in the air, can't you? same in VZ.

central command's havin' a gay old time!

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@MrWebster

I thought Putin called Trump and told him to knock it off. CrazyCrazyCrazy

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Big Al's picture

For those that don't believe in continuity of government at the highest levels, this should open some eyes. Trump, who is clearly in the neocon/Zionist corner, made war with Iran (in effect) a centerpiece of his presidential campaign, for those paying attention and able to connect the dots from administration to administration. And that's exactly what Trump and his regime are doing. How far they go militarily is anybody's guess but they're clearly pulling out all economic warfare options and making illegal war threats.
Again, ALL based on lies.

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wendy davis's picture

@Big Al

following that testimony, didn't wes clark run for president, another librul military hero? yeah, i may be wrong on the timing, but i'm way too lazy to bingle it.

now the US had its dirty paws in dividing sudan, meaning more wars george clooney style. dang me, i can't remember the name of the group he'd started: The Sentry or some such? one of the most enjoyable blogs i ever wrote.

but yes to continuity with subtle variations.

sexier at night, no?

on edit: i was wrong-o: 'Clark joined the 2004 race for the Democratic Party presidential nomination as a candidate in 2003, but withdrew from the primary race in 2004... Clark was considered a potential candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2008, but, on September 15, 2007, endorsed Senator Hillary Clinton. After Clinton dropped out of the presidential race, Clark endorsed the then-presumptive Democratic nominee, Barack Obama.

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mimi's picture

Is he silent for a reason, or did the media just ignored him? Thanks for the video reminder, I remember it well.

PS I just read his Wikipedia page. What can I say, strange things happen. Disappointed.

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TTTT (too tired to talk)

wendy davis's picture

@mimi

account is mainly filled with that 7-countries video and older ones re: trump being blackmailed into staying in syria.

on edit: here ya go, mimi: Retired general Wesley Clark rules out '20 run; Arkansan instead focuses on promoting civility in politics' April 29, 2019

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mimi's picture

@wendy davis

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TTTT (too tired to talk)

wendy davis's picture

@mimi

amiga. ; ) (may i confess i hadn't read it before i'd handed it to you?)

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on 9/11. Whether anything else (a US missile, an alien spacecraft, a flying sperm whale, etc.) also hit the Pentagon is both extremely unlikely, and utterly unknowable.

Thus, this statement:

Israel has 5 German-built Dolphin Submarines that are modified to carry missiles like these, and larger variants of cruise missiles as well, such as the one that hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Israel has deployed cruise type missiles from their submarines on several occasions.

renders every other assertion of fact from that source worthless.

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

wendy davis's picture

@UntimelyRippd

i don't know what all hit the pentagon. on edit: as far as unknowable, maybe, but i'm glad that ed asner's group is raising money for a new 9/11 report to discover all that's been left out of the white-washed version.

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@wendy davis
investigation -- though of course, transparency would be difficult to achieve without discarding most principles of "state secrecy". Not that I wouldn't like that, I just can't imagine it happening.

Regardless, I do think there is one serious difficulty with the push for such a report: Many/Most of the people agitating for the report aren't doing so to learn the truth. They think they already know the truth. (Gordon Duff, for example, clearly has no doubt whatsoever that a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. He's probably wrong.) What they want is for the truth that the already "know" to be revealed and officially recognized by our political institutions. If the report draws different conclusions -- and I think it almost certainly will, because, for example, I think the odds that a cruise missile hit the Pentagon are so small that they're not really worth thinking about it -- it will be denounced and dismissed.

In other words, if the truth is not what some people so very fervently want it to be, believe it to be, "know" it be, they are out of luck, and so are the rest of us (meaning, a group that includes me, I'm not speaking for anyone else): They are out of luck because no report will ever confirm their worldview; the rest of us are out of luck the because the report will not have served its primary purpose, which is to resolve in the minds of the citizenry the facts of the matter.

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5 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

wendy davis's picture

@UntimelyRippd

except for that long lit of objections. and by the by, when i'd gone into my account to find an interviews der spiegel'd done with kristinn hrafnsson, i'd run into a comment i hadn't seen on my candida auris diary.

it was your disgusting ad homimen attack on me as a mother. i will say that our kids are 33 and 35 now, and neither were ever given antibiotics in our house after the time our son was betrayed by them. your AMA big pharma crap can kiss my grits, frankly.

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@wendy davis
I'm fully in favor of such a report, performed with as much transparency as possible. My "litany" comprised two observations:
A. We aren't likely to get as much transparency as we'd like, because we aren't likely to win the necessary concessions from the apparatus that defends state secrecy. (If I was unclear, make no mistake, I oppose that apparatus.)
B. I doubt that any such report is going to satisfy the people who are most actively agitating for it, because I doubt that what really happened corresponds to what they are quite certain happened. I assume that most of them will then reject the report and its findings, and as a society we will still be exactly where we were. (And I'm not even addressing the extent to which any investigation actually can figure out what really happened.)

I'm tired of explaining what ad hominem means, so I won't again, but nothing I wrote with respect to colloidal silver constituted an ad hominem. I'm glad your children survived to adulthood. Moreover, my exhortation regarding antibiotics in an emergency was entirely sincere. Sepsis is rare, and it always has been, at least since we started washing our hands and containing our sewage. Nonetheless, in the unlikely event it happens to you, and in response you drink a dose of colloidal silver, then sit down to blog about it, you will die. Colloidal silver is not going to stop sepsis that's crawling up your leg at an inch per hour, it is not going to stop gangrene, it is not going to stop bacterial meningitis, it is not going to stop MRSA.

Silver and sulfur were both around in the interwar era, and they just were not good enough. Supposing that they were represents a terrible forgetting of the reality of life before antibiotics. Penicillin changed everything, all over the world, in an era predating "big pharma". The people who got it working in practice were doing it to save lives they could not otherwise save, not in order to seize from the citizenry an inexpensive, effective alternative treatment that threatened the medical establishment.
One of the very first people treated with penicillin died because the researchers could not make the stuff fast enough to finish off his infection. In desperation, they were extracting unmetabolized penicillin from the guy's urine, but it still wasn't enough. You are angry with me because you think I'm accusing you of some sort of moral failing, yet you're happy to accuse, by implication, every medical practitioner who ever administered antibiotics to save someone's life, or limb, or eyesight, or fertility, of being a fraud and a charlatan; and as for those who failed to save someone's life, well they must be murderers: Clearly that early patient should have been given silver, but his physicians let him die rather than concede that penicillin was nothing but a nefarious plan to squeeze money out of people who could just as easily and effectively treat themselves with a silver wire and a dry cell.

I laid the epistemology on the table for you. Take it or leave it. There was nothing there that wasn't worked out by western philosophers long before the Romans decided to crucify one particularly irritating itinerant rabbi. If you are content to live a life guided by the post hoc propter hoc fallacy, that's your lookout, not mine -- but just as you choose to exercise your right and freedom to express to others your philosophy, I will similarly exercise my right to present to the shared audience my own very contrary philosophy.

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

wendy davis's picture

@UntimelyRippd

for others to judge. nor will i ever respond to you again if i can remember not to.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@wendy davis

between "you" (generic, meaning people in general) and "you" (specific). Sooner or later it always leads to hurt feelings. (sigh).

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven
to comments that were addressed directly to her.

Though your point is well taken. I do sometimes revert to the rather stuffy third person ungendered, as one must when one wishes to avoid the possibility of giving direct offense.

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2 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

But you're not entitled to tell people that theirs is wrong. The towers weren't brought down by fires from the gas in the planes, but from explosive charges. So if they were rigged to blow then why can't it be possible for something other than a plane to have hit the pentagon? I went through this with you before and I still believe what I do because of the experts that weighed in on it and the evidence.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

wendy davis's picture

@snoopydawg

#MeToo.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@snoopydawg

There are, roughly, two opposed camps with intransigent opinions, and neither one has a hope in hell of convincing the other.

So what's the point? 9/11 happened. How it happened and why it happened are almost irrelevant nearly 20 years later, and "The Truth" may never be known.

The consequences, on the other hand, are another matter....

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

snoopydawg's picture

@TheOtherMaven

People can believe what they want to believe here and get to post it too. The rule is if you disagree do so without being a dick about it. There is nothing that is defined in black and white unless someone was an eyewitness to the event.

Yeah it happened and things like it have happened over and over again and it'd be nice if people started questioning what they are told by the government. Especially since it's legal for the government to lie to us now. Being told that Iran just killed lots of US soldiers and then going to war on and people believing it just like when we were told that Saddam had WMDs and if we didn't invade Iraq then there might be a mushroom cloud over the USA and to this day people still believe it.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

TheOtherMaven's picture

@snoopydawg

but to assert as a certainty that the World Trade Center was brought down by controlled explosives is no more viable a position than stating as fact that a cruise missile hit the Pentagon, and for similar reasons.

We need to keep in mind that on top of the snow-jobbing ("oh, the air in the ruins is perfectly safe, don't worry about it") there was and is a tremendous amount of GIGO (Garbage In-Garbage Out) around both events. Lots of people jumped to all sorts of conclusions and then published them as certainties, both with and without supporting evidence.

Analogies with the Empire State Building (hit by a smaller plane in 1945) aren't exactly applicable, because the ESB was a much older and much sturdier construction, with a limestone facade, interior bearing walls, etc., all state-of-the-art as of the 1920s.

The race for ever-taller buildings has led to shortcuts in the construction, such as maximum use of metal and glass in the facade, and/or dependence on the exterior steel frame to support the building without interior bearing walls, and/or etc. This has led to an assortment of problems, such as the infamous John Hancock Tower in Boston, which had a bad habit of shedding glass windows whenever the wind blew too hard. (I think they eventually fixed that one.) According to available information, the original Twin Towers were simple framed-tube construction, with most of the support being borne by the exterior frame and a limited amount by the service core (elevators, etc.). The rest of it was open-plan, with no interior bearing walls, all to maximize available office space. (No one expected the Spanish Inquisition, err, the use of 767s as incoming missiles.)

A possible analogy would be hitting a brick (the ESB) vs. hitting a mylar balloon. It's pretty hard to demolish a brick, but a balloon....

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Big Al's picture

@TheOtherMaven must be analyzed to reach a logical conclusion. To address your contention that at 20 years the truth is irrelevant, I'd have to disagree with that. Considering the state of affairs, I think it's more relevant than ever.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@Big Al

since the event was seized upon as an excuse to do what the war pigs and the proto-fascists had been salivating for all along.

We still don't know what caused the Reichstag Fire (it was probably arson, but by whom and with what motive has never been conclusively proved), and in meta-analysis it doesn't matter. What matters is what the German government did next - and we all know what that was.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@snoopydawg
than a jetliner hit the pentagon.

I do know, as well as I know pretty much anything at all, that a jetliner did hit the pentagon. To doubt that it did requires one to flat out ignore, for no particular reason, an enormous array of irrefutable positive evidence, while drawing extraordinary and indirect inferences from a rather small amount of negative evidence. This does not correspond with my own epistemology. I am as certain that the Pentagon was struck by a jetliner as I am that the battleship Arizona sank in Pearl Harbor on Sunday morning, December 7, 1941.

And I also know that the person asserting as a straightforward fact that a cruise missile hit the pentagon does not know that a missile hit the Pentagon. I'm sure Gordon D sincerely believes that a cruise missile (not just any missile mind you -- he thinks he knows what kind of missile) hit the Pentagon. I will even accept, as a matter of courtesy and respectful debate, that a missile may have hit the pentagon. I seriously doubt it, but either way, Gordon D is wrong to be certain, because there's no damned way he can know it, and he's even more wrong to use that certainty as a stipulated fact in an essay about something else.

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4 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

edg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

I lived in Ashburn, VA on 9/11. I flew Flight 77 from Dulles Airport to LA a few times. One of my neighbors died on that flight. It's very disturbing to hear people claim it didn't happen.

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@edg @edg
claims that those poor, beautiful, tiny little beginner human beings that were slaughtered, cowering in helpless terror, by a fucked-up dude who should not have been allowed within 50 feet of even a water pistol, never existed.

up
3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@edg

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2 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@edg

Never have I said that.

My boss's mom was on flight 11.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

wendy davis's picture

@edg

had claimed that, or that a missile had also hit the pentagon. but in your place, i'd be vexed as well. 'the truth' of what happened on 9/11 was a subject i'd steered away from as too complicated, too politicized already, etc. i did finally stay up late one night to watch the '9/11 widows for truth' (or close) film, but i just couldn't stay awake for the second half.

i do remember how freaky-deaky it was that on 9/12 no flights were permitted save for the suadis returning home. silent skies...oh, my.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd

How can you be so certain?
Confirmation bias?
An inability to reconsider other possible causes due to the traumatizing nature of the event?
Your bedrock belief in the trustworthiness of the National Security State?
You know Dick Cheney personally?

Given ALL of the inconsistencies in the 9/11 explanation in general and the Pentagon attack in particular, the amount of credulity it takes to trust wholeheartedly in the official narrative would make Little Red Ridinghood blush.

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
"know that a jetliner hit the Pentagon," to "trust wholeheartedly in the official narrative".

i see no reason to defend a position that i haven't staked, and do not hold.

up
1 user has voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd
The official narrative says a plane hit the Pentagon. You say 'know' that happened.

Where's the leap to say you trust wholeheartedly in it?

And besides, if you are implying you don't trust the official narrative with regards to other parts of the 9/11 story, how can you be so certain about THIS part?

Why should the Pentagon story be any more reliable than any of the other thousands of fairy tales the Bush Administration told us during those eight long years?

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Peace Sells

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

Questioning Authority should always be done, but if it strays over the line into questioning reality, that's not so good.

There was a Flight 11. It was seen (and videotaped) flying low to the ground heading directly for the Pentagon. Neither the flight nor anyone who was on it has ever been heard from again. There was wreckage consistent with the type of plane it was. The event was timed to coincide with the airplane attacks on the Twin Towers in New York.

It would be more plausible to hypothesize a bomb in the cargo bay of Flight 11 than a cruise missile fired by persons unknown from an unknown location and timed to coincide with Flight 11 colliding with the Pentagon - and there's no hard evidence for either hypothesis.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@TheOtherMaven @TheOtherMaven @TheOtherMaven @TheOtherMaven

There was a Flight 11. It was seen (and videotaped) flying low to the ground heading directly for the Pentagon.

was security camera footage of the Pentagon being struck.

Here's the relevant frame that captures the object. Notice the object on the far right edge.

Now here is a closer view that same object.

Now here is an even closer view that same object compared with a Boeing 757.

You tell me: are those are the same object?

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Peace Sells

edg's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

The second photo is conclusively a Boeing 757 when compared to the third photo. The length of the front portion of the plane, the engine location, the wing. Although the wing is tilted at a different angle, those two photos prove it was an airplane. Kudos for establishing that.

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0 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@edg

Personally, I think these photos establish absolutely nothing other than people see what they want to see.

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0 users have voted.

Peace Sells

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

It's a thankless job, but somebody's got to do it. Wink

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1 user has voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

edg's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

Was that "missile" painted American Airlines colors so that any debris would match the "false flag"? Wow, that's great attention to detail!!

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3 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@edg
How hard is it to plop airplane debris onto the field afterward and take a picture?

Where's the rest of the plane? The engines? The tail? How can that be the only piece of wreckage in the whole field?

Better yet, how about intact passports that somehow magically survive untouched when everything around is charred to a crisp?

I say Keep the Faith because given ALL of the literally thousands of inconsistencies in the official 9/11 story (even the 9/11 report commissioners have called for a new investigation), you have to have an almost religious belief in the Bush Administration's honesty to think they're weren't bullshitting you.

Open your eyes.

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0 users have voted.

Peace Sells

edg's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

Um, no. But there's not much left after an aluminum airplane traveling at 500 MPH hits a reinforced concrete building. You'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.

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0 users have voted.

@edg
guy that there's parts of the engines and landing gear clearly visible and identifiable in photos of the rubble?

For that matter, there isn't "only" a piece, there are several photos from various angles showing all kinds of debris strewn across the lawn. It's like he Just. Cannot. See. It's bizarre, like that psychological disorder where someone insists that they can use their arm just fine, when their arm is paralyzed.

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0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

lol..the rats came out in droves to tell you how wrong you were. Then I looked at the one you did on Barry eating with the Rockefeller clan. Who boy you purist you. Lots of names that have wondered off to the Netherlands or have been banned and lots of people being quite okay with a $17,500 dinner. The place was slipping into the swamp far longer than I realized.

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2 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@snoopydawg

But yeah, that place never really was what it claimed to be.

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1 user has voted.

Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
nor the government. I'm relying on the overwhelming stream of publicly available positive evidence, combined with an extensive assortment of erudite exposition demonstrating that every argument that no jetliner -- or even, more charitably, no 757 -- hit the Pentagon is at best wrong, and at worst ridiculous.

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2 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd

That doesn't have wings.

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
"C" ring, facing the courtyard. It was punched out mainly by part of the landing gear (clearly visible in other photos of the scene, and, via several debunking sites, convincingly demonstrated to be consistent with a Boeing 757 and inconsistent with anything else hypothesized). Almost all of the aluminum (the wings and most of the fuselage, miscellaneous other bits) had been pulverized (or even vaporized) long before reaching that ring wall. Indeed, most of the thin airframe aluminum was pulverized and/or vaporized when it hit the outermost wall.

this is the last debunkitive response I'll bother with, barring the extremely unlikely event that you present a "problem" that hasn't been debunked dozens of times elsewhere, and that isn't plain silly. it's a timewasting and losing proposition, no different from being dragged into an extended series of well-established debunks by a recalcitrant young-earther or climate change hoaxist.

you cannot win this argument, because you are wrong AND there is superabundant evidence that proves you are wrong. a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11/2001.

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2 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd

Almost all of the aluminum (the wings and most of the fuselage, miscellaneous other bits) had been pulverized (or even vaporized) long before reaching that ring wall. Indeed, most of the thin airframe aluminum was pulverized and/or vaporized when it hit the outermost wall.

The incredible disappearing plane! Aluminum instantly vaporizes on impact! Even the engines!

Seriously, do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
i don't know why you're so determined not only to have an opinion on this, but to waste your time "defending" that opinion, when you can't be bothered to spend an hour on the internet reading a handful of the hundreds of pages that invalidate the opinion you hold while supporting incontrovertibly the opinion i hold.

related to which is the question, "what makes you so adamant that you know something about this," when you don't, as evidenced by your incredulity regarding the fate of thin aluminum when it hits stone or concrete at 350 mph. (yes, it will be reduced to bits: small scraps, dust, and even vapor.)

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1 user has voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd

require extraordinary evidence, or so I've heard from nearly every 9/11 acolyte I've ever encountered.

So how about it? Instead of complaining that I fail to understand how perfectly logical it is for a 66 ton aircraft to completely disappear on impact with a brick wall (funny how that never happens when a plane simply hits the ground), how about providing some sort of link to one of your wholly unimpeachable, fully verifiable, non-governmental sources?

Or do I have to do all the work myself?

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0 users have voted.

Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
The premise upon which your challenge is founded:

a 66 ton aircraft to completely disappear on impact

is Pure. Fucking. Bullshit.

I don't know why you think it's true. The lawn of the Pentagon was littered with bits of the plane's exterior, there's a visible pile of debris filled with airplane parts in the courtyard where the landing gear punched through, and there are abundant photos of aircraft bits -- including engine parts -- inside the office building itself, and then in piles as the cleanup was going on.

You are ridiculously wrong, and you're demanding that I explain things that require no explanation because they have no basis in reality AT ALL.

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1 user has voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd

Look at the second pic I posted below.

Where is the debris?

You can't have it both ways: either you argue the plane evaporated and there is little if any debris, or the plane didn't evaporate and there was a lot of debris.

So far, you have argued both.

Again, where is the debris?

Did the firefighters clean it all up before putting out the fire?

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
that has dozens of photos of the debris, complete with aircraft parts.

You have the facts at your disposal.

You choose to ignore them, and ask me to provide explanation for non-facts.

So no, I will not amend my 100% correct and accurate assessment. You are wrong. You are willfully, stridently, absurdly wrong. Your wrongness is the stuff of comedy, of farce, of satire. It exceeds the merely amusing, stretching instead to achieve pure hilarity.

Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong wrong, and sadly, you are clearly determined to remain wrong, now and forever. I did my best, but it just wasn't enough to overcome your wall of delusion. Sorry.

up
1 user has voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd

if the plane is supposed so fragile that it vanished in a puff of smoke on impact, how did it also manage to punch such a neat hole in an interior wall?

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
Asked and answered.

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1 user has voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@UntimelyRippd

All gone!

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0 users have voted.

Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger
a. A regularly scheduled American Airlines flight (77) boarded and, as far as anybody knows, took off as expected.
b. A handful of people claim to have received cell phone calls from passengers on the plane as it raced through DC.
c. Hundreds (well, probably thousands, but only hundreds are on record) of people saw an American Airlines jetliner flying low and at high speed in the general direction of the Pentagon.
d. Most lost sight of the jetliner after it flew over them. Shortly thereafter, they heard an explosion (some heard a second explosion) and saw smoke rising from the direction of the Pentagon.
e. Dozens (at least) claim to have seen the jetliner strike the Pentagon.
f. Not one person (that I know of) is on record as having seen an American Airlines jetliner in the vicinity of the Pentagon pulling up from a low-altitude, high-speed trajectory, and flying off. At all.
g. There are abundant photographs of the aftermath of something hitting the Pentagon. These photographs include lots and lots of aircraft parts, some still with clearly visible, recognizable American Airlines markings on them.
h. Nobody who was on the passenger manifest has been seen since that morning.
i. The abundant wreckage, all of it consistent with the particular Boeing 757 that was scheduled as Flight 77, is the only physical sign of that aircraft reported anywhere, by anyone.

Now, let's ask, which of the two is an extraordinary claim, and which is quite ordinary indeed?
A. American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757, after flying low at very high speed through the middle of DC (so low that some witnesses instinctively ducked, though of course they were in no danger), smashed into the Pentagon at 350 to 450 mph, leaving behind the wide array of non-building debris photographed at the site, including landing gear and engine parts.
or
B. American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757, after flying low at very high speed through the middle of DC etc etc., disappeared forever without a trace, and with all of its passengers. Meanwhile, something else struck the Pentagon. And then a bunch of ruined aircraft parts recognizable as coming from a Boeing 757 somehow materialized amidst the the fire and the rubble, and strewn across the lawn (with bits of human body as well, according to some who were on the scene).

You might notice one not-quite similarity between these two narratives. Specifically, narrative A posits, corresponding to the physical evidence of engine, landing gear, and miscellaneous other aircraft parts were photographed at the site (including, on the lawn itself, various recognizable fragments of the exterior of an American Airlines jetliner), that the Boeing 757 struck the Pentagon, leaving tons of small and large remnants of itself in the debris.

Narrative B, on the other hand, posits that the aircraft simply disappeared into thin air. It was there, flying over DC, scaring the daylights out of hundreds or thousands of witnesses ... and then it was not there, or anywhere else: Just gone. Nobody on the other side of the Pentagon instinctively ducked to escape a low-flying jetliner. Ironically, the impossibility of a 757 disappearing into thin air is precisely your objection to your counter-factual straw-man version of Narrative A, which is premised on the falsehood that there were no components of a 757 to be found at the site.

up
1 user has voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd to learn the truth. My only strongly held conviction is that we, the people, were not told the truth. No report upcoming will fit into my preconceived notions of what happened.
I just know what we were told happened is bull shit.

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8 users have voted.

@on the cusp
such a report were indeed commissioned and produced. And if the report demonstrates that all sorts of things that I very much doubt happened did in fact happen, I'll be surprised, but I won't reject the report. But then, I don't have anything significant invested in my doubt that, for example, either of the main towers was brought down by controlled demolition. Hell, I'd love to have a reason to bury Bush and Cheney and all the rest of them in a deep dark hole for the rest of their lives.

Nonetheless, there are some people who are quite dedicated to their certain beliefs, and if the report fails to confirm those beliefs, they will not be persuaded. Just look at all the disappointed folk rejecting the Mueller report for failing to put Trump in the dock. They know that Trump and his campaign colluded with the Russians. If his investigation concluded otherwise, it must have been either corrupt or incompetent.

up
3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd what conclusion anybody else wants. If the truth doesn't match up with their expectations, they can take a pill, or down a stiff drink.
I am interested in a truthful report, and can handle it.
My tax dollars support this government.
This government damn well owes me the truth.

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8 users have voted.

@on the cusp

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Lookout's picture

I'm not sure whether the '53 coup in Iran reflects Iran or Venezuela better.
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1951-54Iran
They out right admit their dirty little coup from that time.

Onward into the fog blind and ignorant...the American way.

Over and over and over again my friends...

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8 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

wendy davis's picture

@Lookout

my guess is MI6 and the CIA deposing mossadegh in 1953, and how that went for iranians ever since. i just tried to find a storify i'd done on the history by 'nyusha, a child of the revolution', but the tweets aren't still live. she'd done a beautiful job of adding art, live vintage photos, etc. i'd made it at the café so as not to harsh jtc's bandwidth up here, then added it to 'more drumbeats against iran' or something here.

loved your link: 'trying to understand mosaddegh' (or close). ; )

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3 users have voted.

almost without exception. The only difference between neo cons and libs is in what order to subjugate the world nations.

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10 users have voted.
wendy davis's picture

@jim p

thanks for that, jim p. i sure needed the laughs. but order isn't everything, long as it gets done!

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5 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

“Senior Iranian cleric Ayatollah Yousef Tabatabai-Nejad has dismissed the US carrier group's deployment in the Middle East, suggesting that the fleet could be easily destroyed in the event of war.

"Their billion-dollar fleet can be destroyed with one missile," Tabatabai-Nejad said, speaking in Isfahan on Friday, Reuters has reported, citing local media.

Chinese Silkworm anti-ship and Russian S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems render US Carriers and Cold War era strategic bombers obsolete for regime change work - especially in a cramped pond liked the Gulf.

The Iranians know it. The Russians know it. The Chinese know it. The US Military knows it (but doesn't like to admit it).

The only people in power who may not know it are Larry, Moe, and Curly.

We can all only hope it doesn't take a sunk Abraham Lincoln in the Gulf channel and B-52s destroyed as they take off from Qatar for these trigger happy jamokes to suddenly discover that the primary weapons systems the Empire has relied on to project strategic power since the end of WWII are now old tech.

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11 users have voted.

Peace Sells

wendy davis's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

of bravado, but you seem to see it as the truth. but goodness, with all the billions amerika spends of weapons of war, a lot of them seem to be sub-par. how many recalls on the f-35 (are they the ones i mean?) have there been?

now the russians, yep, they build some good stuff. but srsly, isn't it amerika, the most violent exporter of violence in the world...causing the arms race to build and build? now even the EU is building more weapons of war...just in case.

love your photos of the true troika of tyrrany as larry, curly, and moe. nyukk, nyukk, nyukk...

oh, yeah, and amerika's building a super-duper atomic bomb drone; i forget what they named it; prolly The Trump Dump Mother of all Drone Bombers.

p.s. aren't the b-52s pretty ancient, too?

on edit: boeing says made in the 1950s, upgraded in 2013 and 2015. pfffft. thank you, patrick shanahan. oh, my; i saw him on twitter; his visage is scary biscuits....

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6 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@wendy davis

that leaves the Iranians sniggering and the Joint Chiefs rolling their eyes.

The only people they convince with these silly displays of force are themselves. Everybody else just shakes their heads.

In any event, I truly hope this is all just for show, because the only alternative explanation for their bone head tactics is that they want the fleet to get hit.

And we all know how much Neocons love them some false flag...

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9 users have voted.

Peace Sells

wendy davis's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

the would be insane to start WWIII plus nukes. incomprehensible saber-rattling; but as pompeo says again today: we don't want war as US warships and bombers gather off the coast of iran...

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9 users have voted.

@wendy davis
Exocet missile, way back in 1982, the vulnerability of warships to both surface-launched and air-launched missiles has been a problem for any imperial power that relies on air power to control foreign battlefields. It's not an accident that no other nation wants more than 1 or 2 of such craft (and even those are half the size of our supercarriers) -- their primary virtue is in defending a transoceanic empire, and they're terribly, terribly vulnerable. As I documented several weeks ago, the US aircraft carrier fleet outguns the rest of the planet by quite a lot, and we're building more.

The US has developed some fairly remarkable anti-missile systems (the Patriot not among them), but how well any of them would actually do in real tactical combat is pretty much unknown. My own guess is that the Iranians would have to launch a lot more than one missile in order for any one of them to penetrate the screens, but I could be wrong, and even if I'm not, when that one missile slips through, it could be all she wrote for the 10-billion dollar abraham lincoln.

up
6 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

wendy davis's picture

@UntimelyRippd

...................................

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2 users have voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

The Abraham Lincoln, CVN-72, Nimitz class, commissioned 1989. Not the oldest in the fleet (that's the Nimitz itself from 1975), but far from the newest. Expendable? It's not a false flag if the ship sinks. Are they simply trying to provoke an attack?
The question isn't "why", we all know why. The question is "why now"? Has something changed such that now is the time? Something military? Something political? Or is this just theater?

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5 users have voted.

"I cannot ignore reality, but I can embrace beauty." -- magiamma

wendy davis's picture

@WoodsDweller

the 2012 USS Arlington as well, and other vessels, but i'm not sure how much it matters. a bravado show of force? as per henry kissinger, iran, russia, and china will know what they need to know. me, i'm a relative newbie, including the patriot missile batteries, better than iraq's SCUDs or so we've been told, lol.

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2 users have voted.
wendy davis's picture

not by telephone. body language matters.

US Secretary of State Pompeo to meet Russia’s President Putin & Foreign Minister Lavrov on May 14’, 10 May, 2019, RT.com

“The visit comes as relations between Moscow and Washington are at a new low over accusations of Russian meddling in US elections, disagreements over approaches to Venezuela and Iran’s nuclear program, as well as the US ditching the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty followed up by Russia suspending its participation.

On May 13, the Secretary of State will visit the US embassy upon his arrival to Moscow as well as meet with the US business leaders and exchange program alumni to hear their thoughts on the issue of US-Russian relations. The State Department also said he will discuss “the full range of bilateral and multilateral challenges” with Lavrov and Putin during a meeting in the southern city of Sochi on May 14.”

er....and maybe the drums beating harder and louder for War on Iran?

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3 users have voted.
ggersh's picture

@wendy davis Pompeo Skips Moscow Trip To Pressure EU Officials In Brussels On Iran

Follows last week's snub of Germany's Merkel for urgent Iraq trip.

104
7621
MAY 13, 2019 10:20 AM

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2 users have voted.

trump will be amerika's last president

so now that the D's are a wholly owned subsidiary of the CIA
anyone saying that we live in democracy is a conspiracy theorist.

wendy davis's picture

@ggersh

that Pompeous was meeting the russians in sochi after brussels. may i ask where you'd seen this, amigo?

on edit:(duh), i used your headline and found: 'Pompeo Skips Moscow Trip To Pressure EU Officials In Brussels On Iran. oh crap, later, my laptop just got raided, gotta shut down microsoft...

ah, it was just porn ransomeware. should pay it? (j/k) they want 500 bucks, if i hurry up within 15 minutes, they'll only charge me a thousand.

from the link:

“Pompeo's travel change was last minute, a senior State Department official said.
The State Department announced Friday that Pompeo would meet with Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in Sochi Tuesday.

"It is no secret that we have many areas of disagreement with the Russian government," the senior State Department official told reporters Friday. "The secretary will have a very candid conversation about concerns in our bilateral relationship" including Russia's breach of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty and "Kremlin-backed attempts to meddle in US and other foreign elections."

Russia also continues to hold US citizens, including Paul Whelan and Michael Calvey, in detention, where they have been denied adequate consular services, according to US officials. The state department official said Pompeo was expected to raise that issue during his meetings."

but oh, my; the agitprop before those bits, like:

“The meeting was planned before two Saudi and United Arab Emirates cargo ships were targeted in what authorities have claimed are sabotage operations, the diplomat said. It's unclear if the ships mentioned by Saudi Arabia and the UAE are part of the same incident...

(with a link to (saudi oil tankers sabotaged) CorruptNeoconNetwork link and video)

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3 users have voted.
ggersh's picture

@wendy davis as if we didn't have a full plate already.

The 3 stooges like new toyz

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3 users have voted.

trump will be amerika's last president

so now that the D's are a wholly owned subsidiary of the CIA
anyone saying that we live in democracy is a conspiracy theorist.

wendy davis's picture

@ggersh

although i can't find the video on youtube or on nic's twit account. this is one of the false flags we've been expecting; dunno if it'll grow legs or not, not that anyone's paying attention due to: thread hijacking.

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3 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@wendy davis

then you should have edited or excluded this paragraph:

Israel has 5 German-built Dolphin Submarines that are modified to carry missiles like these, and larger variants of cruise missiles as well, such as the one that hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Israel has deployed cruise type missiles from their submarines on several occasions.”

Offending words emphasized. You also had a chance of being called out as an "anti-Semite", except that we don't do that here.

"Cruise missile hit the Pentagon on 9/11" is a hypothesis with little or no support - just somebody's or several bodies' opinion, not fact.

No wonder you got a thread-jacking argument.

Next time, stick to the point and don't quote anything that veers off in any other direction - especially not 9/11 (unless you are making a direct comparison to 9/11).

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2 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

wendy davis's picture

@TheOtherMaven

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2 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@wendy davis stick to the approved Newspeak narrative! If not, you could be an anti-semite or worse, a conspiracy theory nut!
You're lucky you're not at the factory.

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1 user has voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@Big Al

Thanks for the concise example of at least the last three. Blum 3

wendy davis made a tactical error, and got called on it - along with advice on How Not To Make The Same Mistake Again.

It's got nothing to do with "Approved Narrative" - it's "Avoiding Thread-jacking 101" (i.e., don't include anything that distracts from the diary's main point - it just weakens the diary and increases the probability of a thread-jack. And if it's a 9/11 reference in a non-9/11 diary, the probability is 100%.)

You want to talk about 9/11, let's talk about 9/11. But let's do it IN and FROM a diary about 9/11.

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1 user has voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Big Al's picture

@TheOtherMaven I think they did it. Oh, I understand and agree with your point about threadjacking. My ADUD comment was just to wd to cheer her up a bit. No offense to anyone else intended.
But I did think you inferred she was in some way acting as or was an anti-Semite by indicating she could be attacked as being such if it weren't for the rules of this blog. I don't know if that was your intent, but that's how it sounded to me.

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0 users have voted.
wendy davis's picture

@Big Al

in my haste to close out of both threads last night i'd missed the 'anti-semitic' reference. i'm just not as conversant as so may here as to 9/11 pentagon and twin towers theories.

but thanks for the tips, the other maven.

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1 user has voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@wendy davis

or any reference that can be remotely construed as negative, will bring accusations of "anti-semitism" because they believe that nothing negative should be said about Israel or the Israeli government or any member thereof - ever - no matter how much they may deserve it.

We don't do that here.

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1 user has voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

wendy davis's picture

@TheOtherMaven

is whitney webb's piece i've added below going to be construed as 'anti-semitic'? thank goodness there are a ever-growing number of jews who criticize israeli military policy and apartheid israel (mondowiess.net for one site). and of course a few do that here, those who do can be answered, and usually have been.

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1 user has voted.
wendy davis's picture

@TheOtherMaven

ggersh that i'd unwind some of it, although i can't find the video on youtube or on nic's twit account. this is one of the false flags we've been expecting; dunno if it'll grow legs or not, not that anyone's paying attention due to: thread hijacking.

i'd added at the top on edit that it's been gratifying to learn that so many of you would like to know more 9/11 truth, and have delved deeper into the original whitewashed version than i might have imagined. That said, you might look at the bottom of the comments section to see what one iteration of the false flags to make war on Iran might be.

so no, i did not object to the thread jacking per se as it turned out, but in the end i do find that the notion that there's no sense in opening a new inquiry unhealthy.

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1 user has voted.
wendy davis's picture

as one false flag against iran for now:

Four ships targeted in mystery "sabotage attack," says UAE’, cnn international today:

"Four ships were targeted on Sunday near the strategic Emirati port of Fujairah, in what the UAE described as a "sabotage attack." One was flying a UAE flag, and another the Norwegian flag. The other two were tankers owned by Saudi Arabia, which described the incident as a threat to the security of global oil supplies.

There were no injuries or deaths, according to the UAE Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation. It did not elaborate on the nature of the alleged sabotage, or offer any indication as to who might be responsible.
Tensions have risen in the oil-rich region in recent weeks amid the deployment of a growing number of United States military assets to the Middle East, due to deteriorating relations with Iran.

Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Seyyed Abbas Mousavi said Monday that the incidents were "alarming and regrettable," and requested further information on the alleged sabotage. He also warned against "plots by ill-wishers to disrupt regional security" and called for "vigilance of regional states in the face of any adventurism by foreign elements."

In a tweet, Emirati Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Anwar Gargash said investigations in the incident were ongoing but that the government had its "own readings and conclusions."
"The international community (needs to) assume its responsibilities to prevent any parties trying to undermine the security and safety of maritime traffic," the ministry said.

On Monday, the UAE formally asked the US for technical assistance in assessing the vessels' damage, according to a US official. The US experts will look at the damage patterns, try to recover any material from the site, and determine if some kind of missile or weapon hit the ships.

Rumblings about Iran (this is in the OP)

Last week, the US Maritime Administration issued an advisory that "Iran or its proxies" could be targeting commercial vessels and oil production infrastructure in the region. The warning followed Iran's announcement that it was partially withdrawing from a landmark nuclear deal, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, which the US itself unilaterally exited one year ago.
US Air Force F-15s and F-35s, along with B-52 bombers, are now flying visible air patrols over the Persian Gulf, according to a US official, who said that the flights were designed to demonstrate to both Iran and US allies that US forces are in a deterrence mode.

Saudi Arabian Energy Minister Khalid al-Falih described the incident as a deliberate attempt to "undermine the freedom of maritime navigation, and the security of oil supplies to consumers all over the world."

A senior source at Saudi Arabia's ministry of energy told CNN that the attacks were particularly alarming because the tankers were targeted outside the Strait of Hormuz."

the accompanying video is hyperbolic as hell, i can't find it on youtbe or on cnn international's twitter acct.

and not fer nothin', from amerika's chief 'diplomat':

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wendy davis's picture

and the coup's 'strange arithmetic'. the lyrics are here.

History has taught me some strange arithmetic
Using swords, prison bars, and pistol grips
English is the art of bombing towns
While assuring that you really only blessed the ground
Science is that honorable, useful study
Where you contort the molecules and then you make that money
In mathematics, dead children don't get added
But they count the cost of bullets comin' out the automatic

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wendy davis's picture

from wsws:

"Late Monday, the New York Times posted an article under the headline “White House Reviews Military Plans Against Iran, in Echoes of Iraq War.” The article cited as sources “more than half a dozen national security officials” and reported that a meeting of President Trump’s top national security aides last week discussed a plan to send as many as 120,000 troops to the Middle East."

and that pompeo's crashing of the brussels meeting may not have gone as well as he'd hoped as far as looking for a transatlantic front against tehran and its nuclear ambitions, but instead found warnings that ' the United States and Iran are inching toward war.'

"The Trump administration has called for “maximum pressure” on Iran. The EU’s chief diplomat, Federica Mogherini, reached for a different extreme after meeting with Pompeo on Monday.

“The most responsible attitude to take,” she said, “should be that of maximum restraint and avoiding any escalation on the military side.”

Pompeo was rebuffed on even some basic requests in Brussels. While his plane crossed the Atlantic, European diplomats haggled over how much to accommodate him while his plane sped across the Atlantic. Although Mogherini managed to find time, initially she said she had a busy day and that the pair would talk “if we manage to arrange a meeting.” The top diplomats of Britain, France and Germany agreed to meet one on one with Pompeo but would not allow the Americans the symbolic victory of a group meeting. (The Europeans publicly blamed scheduling difficulties.)

U.S. diplomats downplayed talk of a split."

during his meeting with nasty, apparently anti-semitic, racialist viktor orban, a reporter had asked him if he were already at war with iran. i lost that link, but this from yahoo/bloomberg will have to do:

"President Donald Trump warned Iran against a military provocation and said the country “will suffer greatly” if hostilities break out with the U.S.

“We’ll see what happens with Iran. If they do anything it’ll be a very bad mistake, if they do anything,” Trump told reporters on Monday during a meeting with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban at the White House.

“I’m hearing little stories about Iran,” Trump added. “If they do anything they will suffer greatly.”

Saudi Arabia claimed that two of its oil tankers were attacked on Sunday while sailing toward the Persian Gulf. The U.A.E. foreign ministry on Sunday reported that four commercial ships were attacked by an unknown adversary."

but didn't the 'iranian sabotage' of the ships dovetail nicely with this US Maritime Administration (MARAD):

“Iran or its proxies could respond by targeting commercial vessels, including oil tankers, or US military vessels in the Red Sea, Bab-el-Mandeb Strait, or the Persian Gulf. Reporting indicates heightened Iranian readiness to conduct offensive operations against US forces and interests.”

the pompeo/lavrov/putin meeting at sochi's today; that ought to interesting.

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wendy davis's picture

With the US-Iran War Ball Now Rolling, Could an “Accident” or “False Flag” Serve as Pretext?; Certain forces in the U.S. and Israel have been actively pushing for war with Iran for years and have a track record that demonstrates little inhibition about using an “accident” to start it.’, whitney webb may 13, 2019

she covers much of what’s here, but her sections on netanyahu contain historical revelations i’d never known about, i’ll clip just a couple of the bits on current history:

“Now, with the Trump administration having shown its willingness to favor Israeli interests in the Middle East, Netanyahu has apparently sensed that the hour has come to push the U.S. towards war with Iran. For instance, the Trump administration organized a summit aimed at securing “peace and security in the Middle East,” to which Iran was not invited. The New York Times described that summit as follows:

…Leaders of Israel and Arab states met publicly again, at an international conference in Warsaw staged by the Trump administration. But the goal of this meeting, drawing officials of some 60 nations, was not peacemaking. It was to rally support for economic and political war with Iran, for which the United States has found little enthusiasm among allies since withdrawing from the 2015 deal that restricts Iran’s nuclear program.”

Notably, during that meeting, Netanyahu wrote in a since deleted tweet that the summit was “an open meeting with representatives of leading Arab countries, that are sitting down together with Israel in order to advance the common interest of war with Iran.”
In the wake of the Warsaw summit, Netanyahu has since claimed that he was responsible for the Trump administration’s decision to label Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) a terror group, a move that dramatically increased the risk of a military confrontation between the U.S. and Iran, especially given that Iran subsequently responded by declaring the U.S. military’s Central Command a terrorist organization.

Now, with Netanyahu feeding Bolton “intelligence” that Bolton has greatly exaggerated in order to justify their common goal — a U.S. war with Iran — and also “predicting” dubious “sabotage” attacks near the Persian Gulf, Israel’s government has revealed itself to be a driving force behind the spiking tensions between the two countries.”

webb’s ‘For Netanyahu, it’s now or never for a U.S.-Iran war’ is more complicated, as it contains a lot of moving geopolitical parts: iran pressuring the EU that might cause trump to extend the waivers that had allowed five or six nations to purchase oil, giving them 60 days to accomplish that v. threats to enrich uranium again, syra about to take idlib, then perhaps damascus turning their efforts toward reclaiming the golan heights, which nation is militarily allied with iran and russia, etc. there’s a lot more, but i’d sure need time to consider this more carefully; so far i'm not buying it:

“Yet, the clearest indicator that the push for war is very much in earnest is the intention of Netanyahu to effectively destroy Palestine. Several analysts, including ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern, have long maintained that Israel’s and Netanyahu’s main reason for wanting a war with Iran is to “have Iran bloodied the same way we did to Iraq” so that Iran “would no longer be able to support Hamas and Hezbollah in Gaza, Lebanon, and elsewhere.” In other words, Netanyahu wants Iran out of the picture so it can no longer provide material or financial support to groups that resist Israeli occupation.”

then the coming ‘deal of the century’ kushner peace deal, which when revealed might lead to regional war...

“With top officials in the U.S. government and much of the media failing to push back, Netanyahu finally has a window of opportunity — albeit one that is shrinking — to push the U.S. to war with Iran and it appears that he, along with his allies in the Trump administration, plans on taking it."

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Lavrov & Pompeo agree to work on nukes control but clash on Venezuela, election interference (VIDEO), RT.com, 14 May, 2019

some highlights:

"As predicted, nuclear arms control was top of the agenda, following the Trump administration’s recent withdrawal from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty. Pompeo and Lavrov seemed open to cooperation on establishing new arms control pacts, with Pompeo restating President Donald Trump’s desire to bring China into any future deal.

With the New START nuclear arms reduction treaty set to expire in February 2021, Pompeo said that Washington is willing to work towards extending the deal by five years, ]my italics] while the Russian FM said he hopes any future agreements will be “positively received by both nations.”

Stalemate on Venezuela but moving on..

"Amid the buildup of US naval power in the Persian Gulf, and rhetorical shots fired back and forth between the Trump administration and Tehran, Pompeo tamped down talk of war on Tuesday.

“We fundamentally do not see a war with Iran,” the secretary of state said, adding: “We’ve made it clear to the Iranians that if American interests are attacked, we will certainly respond in an appropriate fashion.”

Lavrov also addressed reports that the US is preparing to deploy 120,000 troops to the Middle East in response to the supposed Iranian threat, saying that he hoped the reports were “baseless” rumors. Pompeo deflected the question, saying it was a question for the Department of Defense. As both diplomats talked, Trump denied the report, telling reporters in the White House that “it’s fake news.” Nevertheless, the president added that “If we did that, we’d send a hell of a lot more troops than that.”

the video's about 32 minutes, but the most interesting parts begin about 22 minutes; sergei lavrov was being extremely diplomatic; pompeo showed his ignorance on the '1933s'.

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and (to me) counter-intuitive twists in his may 13 'Iran Squeezed Between Imperial Psychos and European Cowards' at consortiumnews.org first, the backstory:

"Washington’s economic war proved instead the IRGC was right all along, echoing the finely-tuned geopolitical sentiment of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, who always emphasized the Americans cannot be trusted, ever.

And as much as Washington has branded the IRGC a “terrorist organization,” Tehran replied in kind, branding CENTCOM the same."Independent Persian Gulf oil traders dismiss the notion that the kleptocrat House of Saud — de facto run by Jared “of Arabia” Kushner’s Whatsapp pal Mohammed bin Salman (MbS), the Saudi crown prince – holds up to 2.5 million barrels of oil a day in spare capacity capable of replacing Iran’s 2 million barrels of exports (out of 3.45 million of total daily production). The House of Saud seems more interested in hiking oil prices for Asian customers.

"The most glaring reason for the irrational hatred is the fact the Islamic Republic is one of the very few nations on the planet consistently defying the hegemon — for four decades now.

The second reason is that Iran, just like Venezuela — and this is a combined war front — have committed the supreme anathema; trading on energy bypassing the petrodollar, the foundation stone of U.S. hegemony.

The third (invisible) reason is that to attack Iran is to disable emerging Eurasia integration, just like using NSA spying to ultimately put Brazil in the bag was an attack on Latin American integration.

As shown before, a possible shut down of the Strait of Hormuz, whatever the reasons, would be like a major meteor impact on the global economy. And that would inevitably translate as no Trump reelection in 2020."

now the new and counter0intuitive twists:

"The Strait of Hormuz would never need to be blocked if all the oil Iran is able to export is bought by China, other Asian clients and even Russia — which could relabel it. But Tehran wouldn’t blink on blocking Hormuz if faced with total economic strangulation.

So what happens next? Professor Mohammad Marandi at the Faculty of World Studies of the University of Tehran offers quite a sobering perspective: “After 60 days Iran will push things even further. I don’t think the Iranians are bluffing. They will also be pushing back at the Saudis and the Emiratis by different means.”

Marandi, ominously, sees “further escalation” ahead:

“Iranians have been preparing for war with the Unites States ever since the Iraq invasion in 2003. After what they’ve seen in Libya, in Syria, Yemen, Venezuela, they know that the Americans and Europeans are utterly brutal. The whole shore of the Persian Gulf on the Iranian side and the Gulf of Oman is full of tunnels and underground high-tech missiles. The Persian Gulf is full of ships equipped with highly developed sea-to-sea missiles. If there is real war, all the oil and gas facilities in the region will be destroyed, all the tankers will be destroyed.”

And if that show comes to pass, Marandi regards the Strait of Hormuz as the “sideshow”:

“The Americans will be driven out of Iraq. Iraq exports 4 million barrels of oil a day; that would probably come to an end, through strikes and other means. It would be catastrophic for the Americans. It would be catastrophic for the world – and for Iran as well. But the Americans would simply not win.”

So as Marandi explains it — and Iranian public opinion now largely agrees — the Islamic Republic has leverage because they know “the Americans can’t afford to go to war. Crazies like Pompeo and Bolton may want it, but many in the establishment don’t.”

and right on cue RT.com today: ‘There won’t be any war’ between Iran & US – Khamenei'

"Despite a spike in tensions between Iran and the US, the two nations won’t engage in a military conflict – but there will also be no new nuclear deal, Iranian Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has said.

“There won’t be any war. The Iranian nation has chosen the path of resistance,” Khamenei said as cited by Iran’s state TV.

“We don't seek a war, and they don't either,” he added, insisting that the Americans are well aware that a military confrontation with Iran is “not in their interests.”

The Supreme Leader also said that Tehran won’t engage in any talks on signing a new nuclear deal with Washington. “[Such] negotiations are a poison,” Khamenei said.

(the longer press tv version is here.) these may be the most notable extras:

"The Leader further said any confrontation between the US and Iran would not be “a military one,” and that “there was not going to be any war.”

“The Iranian nation’s definite option will be resistance in the face of the US, and in this confrontation, the US would be forced into a retreat,” Ayatollah Khamenei said. “Neither we nor they, who know war will not be in their interest, are after war.”

Ayatollah Khamenei further explained that the confrontation between the two sides is “a clash of wills,” asserting that Iran would be the ultimate victor of this battle.
Ayatollah Khamenei said Washington gives priority to Israel’s interests over the benefits of all others, adding, “The control of many affairs rests in the hands of the Zionist society.”

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Pluto's Republic's picture

...to this essay. Life has intruded on my time for nearly a week, and I've been unable to fix on anything but drive-by headlines. These last few articles really deliver on the war theories and military strategies regarding Iran. I'm sorry this is happening to Iran at the hands of Greater ISIL in the ME — but I am so grateful that the entire world can witness it and talk about it. I think the most deserving nation will ultimately be marginalized. I'm up to speed. Thanks Wendy.

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus
wendy davis's picture

@Pluto's Republic

chuckling over your liking the endings, as i'd begun feel as though i were hogging the comment stream again.

"I think the most deserving nation will ultimately be marginalized."

i'm looking forward to it, as the US Empire is an increasingly loose cannon. hope things in your life have gotten sorted, amigo.

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