Poland offers US up to $2B for permanent military base

Poland offers US up to $2B for permanent military base
Warsaw wants American boots on ground as protection against Russia.
By EDYTA ŻEMŁA AND KAMIL TURECKI 5/27/18, 10:05 PM CET Updated 5/30/18, 8:53 AM CET

Poland wants a permanent U.S. military presence — and is willing to pony up as much as $2 billion to get it, according to a defense ministry proposal obtained by Polish news portal Onet.

The Polish offer reflects a long-standing desire in Warsaw to build closer security relations with the U.S. and put American boots on the ground. The push dates back to Poland’s entry into NATO in 1999, but has taken on added urgency in the wake of Russia’s annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea region four years ago and aggressive posture toward the alliance.

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Dominik Smyrgała, who served as a deputy to former Polish Defense Minister Antoni Macierewicz, under whom the proposal first started to take shape last summer, told Onet the proposal was drafted by senior ministry officials and a group of Polish military officers.

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Duda in dark

In a sign of growing discord within the Polish government, the defense ministry confirmed that the proposal was sent to Washington before first consulting with the foreign ministry and — more importantly — without the knowledge of the president, Andrzej Duda, who is also the country’s commander in chief.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-poland-offers-us-up-to-2-billion-fo...

Interesting. Now we don’t need to deal with a country’s leaders anymore. We go right to its military. How the Hell does that work?

Here’s the ‘proposal’:

Proposal
for a
U.S. Permanent Presence in Poland

https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uplo...

Bloomberg article promoting this idea.

The U.S. Should Move Troops From Germany to Poland

The front line with Russia has moved east. It makes sense for American forces to follow.
By Leonid Bershidsky
May 30, 2018, 1:00 AM CDT

Poland is willing to spend $1.5 billion to $2 billion to entice the U.S. to build a permanent military base there, according to a Defense Ministry proposal. The plan offers a strong incentive for the U.S. to consider moving at least some of its forces from Germany, especially since the current deployment makes little military sense.

Placing U.S. bases in Germany after World War II was a response to the need to deter a Soviet attack and prevent Germany from becoming a military threat again. The second goal appears to be irrelevant today. Higher military spending is unpopular with German voters, and the government is unwilling to raise its defense budget to the 2 percent of economic output required by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The proposed spending level for next year is 1.3 percent.

In addition, the theoretical front line in a conflict between Russia and NATO no longer runs through Germany, which today is buffered from Russia by a number of countries, including the Baltic states and Poland. Germans feel safe, and they’re among the least inclined to defend a NATO ally against a Russian attack.

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U.S. military bases in other countries aren’t particularly useful today: Any major conflict in Europe or the Middle East would still require the deployment of troops from the U.S., which would be almost as fast as from the German bases. But some U.S. allies, including Poland and the Baltic states, really want the American presence to provide a sense of security. These countries are happy to take on extra costs: Poland and Estonia already spend more than 2 percent of economic output on defense, and Latvia and Lithuania are closer to Russia than Germany. None of these countries is likely to do anything to put the U.S. at risk of entanglement: They certainly won’t attack Russia first or even provoke it, since with or without U.S. troops a conflict would devastate them

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-30/why-the-u-s-should-mo...

This idea that Russia won’t react to this show of force is insane.

Moving US troops ‘to frontline with Russia’ in Poland ‘makes sense' – Bloomberg

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One thing is for sure – the advice plays perfectly to Moscow’s suspicion of NATO. First the US and its allies reneged on unwritten promises to Russia not to expand the bloc eastward. Then there was the bending of the agreement not to deploy intermediate-range missiles in Europe with the Aegis Ashore launchers, which Russia says can be converted from shooting interceptor missiles to Tomahawks in a few hours. Deploying a US armored division in Poland in outright violation of the Russia-NATO Founding Act of 1997 is consistent with previous behavior.

Bershidsky may be quite wrong in believing that Russia would not react simply because it accepted the rotational presence of US troops after the 2014 Ukrainian crisis. Military planners in Moscow would likely argue that the base in Poland could be used for a US-led invasion into ally Belarus or Russia proper – or at least a surprise NATO operation in eastern Ukraine.

The need to counter this threat may be enough to tip the balance in favor of permanently deploying nuclear-capable Iskander missiles in the Kaliningrad region – a decision that Russia avoided until now despite the prolonged period of tension.

The Polish proposal was floated six weeks ahead of a NATO summit in Brussels (and remarkably circumvented the organization itself, just like it did the Polish commander-in-chief). By that time other European members of the organization such as Germany, which want to mend relations with Russia, will have plenty of time to find the words to react to the initiative of the Polish military.

https://www.rt.com/news/428253-us-base-poland-bloomberg/

How soon before our government starts telling us to buy plastic and duct tape again?

Bush's tricky duct-tape distraction

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-02-19/news/0302190442_1_duct-tap...

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JekyllnHyde's picture


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How can U.S. foreign policy of the past several decades be explained in a systematic and rational way? The following chart – based on a model developed by political science professors David Sylvan and Stephen Majeski – reveals the imperial logic behind U.S. diplomatic and military interventions around the globe.

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A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

thanatokephaloides's picture

..... as other US involvements in Eastern Europe (Ukraine).

Poland's national tragedy is that it has Germany for one neighbor and Russia for the other. Both have conquered Poland several times in Poland's history, and the Poles deeply despise both of these "neighbors". And both "neighbors" are well aware of the Polish anger towards them, and why it exists.

In modern history, along come the English-speaking nation powers, who defeat Germany during World War II and then defeat the USSR in the Cold War. It's only natural that Poland would want the most intense military alliance with the English-speaking nation powers, now acting as the core of NATO, as it could get. Even if they had to pay NATO to do it.

Germany and Russia have, in the post-Warsaw Pact years, come to terms with a Poland independent of both of them. Both have come to a realization that Poland will ally herself as she needs to in order to maintain that indpendence. And both of them, deep down, know that they aren't blameless for this situation; it's their own imperialist chickens coming home to roost.

That this situation creates opportunities for another imperial power (US/NATO) is yet another illustration of why humanity needs to evolve beyond the State as a way to organize its societies.

Other, more blatantly imperialistic moves (again, I point to US involvement in Ukraine) are more dangerous, imho.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Amanda Matthews's picture

@thanatokephaloides @thanatokephaloides

up. Sorry it doesn’t meet your standards for concern.

Other, more blatantly imperialistic moves (again, I point to US involvement in Ukraine) are more dangerous, imho.

EDIT: deleted something

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Aw gee. I apologize for even bringing this
up. Sorry it doesn’t meet your standards for concern.

I don't know where you got the idea that I meant some sort of offense. You certainly didn't get it from me, as I had no such intent.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Amanda Matthews's picture

@thanatokephaloides

all that work finding stuff and posting backup to be told what I was posting wasn’t worth of discussion. You started off…

Thhis is not as big a cause for alarm.....
..... as other US involvements in Eastern Europe (Ukraine)

and ended...

Other, more blatantly imperialistic moves (again, I point to US involvement in Ukraine) are more dangerous, imho.

And in between it all you proceeded with crap that had nothing to do with what I posted..And not one sentence about anything in my post.

Stating your views is fine. Telling someone what they posted isn’t worth discussing isn’t. My topic was Poland, not the Ukraine. I wasn’t playing rate the foreign policy fuck ups.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Stating your views is fine. Telling someone what they posted isn’t worth discussing isn’t. My topic was Poland, not the Ukraine. I wasn’t playing rate the foreign policy fuck ups.

My apologies. I never intended offense to you, or the Essay's topic, at all; and I confess I may have gone further off-topic than would be productive.

So if you will permit me, here's my take on the item you reported:

We're going to accept this offer, of course; and we won't even ask for the two billion dollars being offered.

We're going to accept this offer because of a small problem Germany and Russia created with their Polish imperialisms, to wit: A significant proportion of the world's ethnic Poles live in the USA. By some counts, more than half of them! The folk saying goes:

There are more Poles in 'Wokee (Milwaukee) than in Warsaw;
in Chicago than in Cracow;
and in Denver than Gdansk!

You can bet your last dollar on another two things: these Polish-Americans vote, and in this case the majority of them will vote in favor of the USA-imperialist moves in Poland. I actually witnessed this kind of political activity during the rise of Solidarnosc and Lech Walesa in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

An interesting paragraph from Wikipedia's article on Lech Walesa:

Wałęsa supported Poland's entry into NATO and the European Union, both of which occurred after his presidency, in 1999 and 2004, respectively. In the early 1990s he proposed the creation of a sub-regional security system called NATO bis. The concept was supported by right-wing and populist movements in Poland but garnered little support abroad; Poland's neighbors, some of which (e.g. Lithuania), had recently regained independence and tended to see the proposal as Polish neo-imperialism.

So there are quarters where Poland is seen as an imperialist power in it's own right, even while deliberately seeking to operate as an American client state.

On reflection and a bit of research, this looks far more dangerous every minute. You are right here, and I was wrong. Again, my apologies.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Amanda Matthews's picture

@thanatokephaloides

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

snoopydawg's picture

his term ended. And Poland isn't the only country that NATO has been building up troops and military equipment into. I'm not surprised that Russia decided to build their new weapons that we can't shoot down. They are being surrounded and more countries are being invited into NATO.

The latest one might be Ukraine which just makes me shake my head in disbelief because Ukraine's government is being filled with neo Nazis. Gee, I wonder how Poland feels about this?

"Those that repeatedly do stupid things is the definition of insanity."

So NATO finally gets around to war with Russia after they're done with Iran and then what? They think that Russia is going to go down as easily as Iraq and Libya did? Somehow I think that NATO might get their asses whooped if they try it. But first they have to take down Iran and that isn't going to be any cake walk either.

Meanwhile what are people in this country going to do if/when the economy crashes again? Still let congress spend more than half our money on the military? Or will people finally decide to jump out of the boiling pot of water?

Then there's that little problem on the horizon called climate change .....

Yep. SMDH!

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

detroitmechworks's picture

When the Pentagon starts making deals with the generals, you know a coup is in the works.

Generally they prop up a tinpot dictator who promises that they're the REAL power and milk the system as long as they can. If the people Revolt, it's an excuse for an invasion, under the excuse of "Being Invited" by the dictator we propped up.

Which would leave us with another client state on the Russian Border.

Perhaps I'm paranoid, but with over a dozen coups perpetrated by the DOD in just the last half of the last century, I do not trust them an inch more than I can comfortably throw the Pentagon Building.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

snoopydawg's picture

or did our country make it for them?

Poland wants a permanent U.S. military presence — and is willing to pony up as much as $2 billion to get it, according to a defense ministry proposal obtained by Polish news portal Onet

.

As to this:

The Polish offer reflects a long-standing desire in Warsaw to build closer security relations with the U.S. and put American boots on the ground. The push dates back to Poland’s entry into NATO in 1999, but has taken on added urgency in the wake of Russia’s annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea region four years ago and aggressive posture toward the alliance.

Russia has every reason to be concerned and take an aggressive posture after we did our little coup in Ukraine. Imagine if Russia overthrew Mexico's government and installed ISIS members in the government? I'm pretty sure that this country's government and military would go ape-shit over it. But obviously it's okay for us to put our fleet a couple hundred miles off the coast of Russia and tell China what they can do with their country too. I'd say this is the definition of hubris, but what do I know?

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

was authored by the ‘Ministry of National Defense’

The Polish President was not consulted.

Duda in dark

In a sign of growing discord within the Polish government, the defense ministry confirmed that the proposal was sent to Washington before first consulting with the foreign ministry and — more importantly — without the knowledge of the president, Andrzej Duda, who is also the country’s commander in chief.

LATE EDIT: fixed the word Proposal

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Amanda Matthews's picture

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

dervish's picture

to help defend its independence, usually with very bad results. I think that such a move would be ill-advised.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@dervish

from the mass slaughter of their cavalry by Nazi tanks. Insane levels of bravery against impossible odds, (that being all that they had) didn't save them then, just killed most of those possessing it - but they'd probably be better off to get national therapy for that past trauma than to appeal to any modern fascists (since then - and by now, rather obviously - following the back-up plans of the US industrialists funding Hitler for their first try at a global corporate/military coup,) for mercy which they so noticeably lack.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.