Fake News: Part 1

(special Holiday programming news at the bottom- ek)

Here at DocuDharma and The Stars Hollow Gazette we have the deepest respect for our readers and only publish the most vile and scurrilous rumors which we very helpfully label for you so you can quickly sully your social media accounts with our lies, propaganda, and disinformation.

Please tell all your friends because we desperately want to become an Internet media juggernaut so we can monetize our sites and eventual sell out for Billions!

Here's some juicy clickbait I came across, see if you can identify the source-

Researchers have developed a new theory: Evolution favored small female pelvises and large newborns for good reasons.

And, the researchers said, the rise of cesarean sections — the surgical delivery of a baby — in recent decades may be contributing to an even bigger gap between the size of newborns and their mothers’ pelvises. In fact, the researchers estimate that the regular use of C-sections has led to a 10 to 20 percent increase in the gap between female pelvis width and babies’ size.

Evolution is happening even in our modern society,” said study lead author Philipp Mitteroecker, an assistant professor with the Department of Theoretical Biology at the University of Vienna, Austria.

But, the human female pelvis has remained small, despite evolution, the researchers said.

“The dimensions of the infant head and shoulders are very close to and even exceed the dimensions of the mother’s birth canal in humans,” said Wenda Trevathan. She’s a professor emeritus of anthropology at New Mexico State University.
...
In the new study, Mitteroecker and his colleagues created a mathematical model that they believe shows that evolution favored bigger babies because it helped the species survive.

“Medical data show that larger newborns have higher survival rates and are less affected by several diseases,” he said.

The researchers also looked at cesarean section births.

According to the U.S. National Library of Medicine, cesarean surgeries have been around for hundreds of years, but in earlier times they were typically performed on dead or dying mothers in order to save the baby.

There’s no firm evidence that Julius Caesar was a product of this procedure, even though it may be named after him.

In recent years, cesarean rates have grown around the world even though there’s controversy over how many of them are actually needed. Approximately one in three U.S. births is by cesarean, according to the U.S. National Institute of Child Health and Human Development.

“If women have the idea that bigger babies are healthier, and to a point they are, they may choose surgical delivery to have a bigger baby,” Trevathan said.
...
The authors of the new study estimate that the growth in cesarean sections over the last 60 years has actually affected evolution by making the gap between pelvic size and newborn size even larger.

Wouldn’t this lead to more difficult non-cesarean births? “That’s what we predicted,” Mitteroecker said.

However, “It is difficult to judge how much the rate of birth complications has really increased,” he said.

What’s next as humans continue to evolve? “That’s not easy to foresee,” Mitteroecker said. “But I don’t think that one day every baby needs to be delivered by C-sections.”

Here's another one-

Human ingenuity increasingly allows us to fight back against “natural selection” and, in effect, influence the path of our own evolution.

Take Cesarean sections, the procedure in which babies are born via surgical incision rather than through the mother’s birth canal. Some form of the procedure has been around for hundreds of years, but only in the past few decades has it become commonplace.

In the US, C-sections now account for 30 percent of all births, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But back in 1970, that figure was around 5 percent. So while C-sections have only been widely available to mothers for just a couple of generations, already scientists are speculating that the procedure is affecting human evolution.
...
Where C-sections are available, the risk of an obstructed pregnancy drops considerably. “Most cases of fetopelvic disproportion … were lethal without C-sections,” Philipp Mitteröcker, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Vienna, writes me. “Hence these mothers were not able to pass on their genes encoding for a narrow pelvis and or a large fetal size to the next generation.”

C-sections changed birth survival rates, “which is, per definition, a change of selection pressure,” Mitteröcker says. And when selection pressures change, we evolve.
...
Mitteröcker doesn’t have direct evidence for this; rather, he and his colleagues have worked out a mathematical model that predicts how many more cases of fetopelvic disproportion ought to be occurring now that C-sections are commonplace. And according to this model, the rate of fetopelvic disproportion has risen from 3 percent to around 3.66 percent in the past few decades.

Put more simply: He predicts more babies whose heads are too big for their mothers’ hips, because, presumably, the genes that code for narrow hips and big heads have been allowed to propagate.

This is just a prediction, he says. “To my knowledge, this has not been shown empirically yet.”
...
”C-sections that matter for evolution are only the ones that actual saved lives and hence were really necessary,” Mitteröcker says. “Our model says nothing about the many C-section carried out for other reasons.”
...
Again, this is just a theory. Mitteröcker says it would take a study of many generations of births, complete with hereditary data and skeleton size data, to confirm the prediction. “We are about to carry out these studies,” he says.

Folks, this is bad science. Fake News!

Not just that but of a particularly Anti-Vaxxer, Eugenicky, Lysenkoism sort, allow me to debunk.

Debunk

noun: descend from the upper levels of a vertically stacked bed.

In the first piece we "learn" that people don't bother to click links. Proof that "Evolution favored small female pelvises and large newborns," is U.S. death rate in pregnancy, childbirth raises "great concern" which among other things tells us-

For every 100,000 live births, nearly 24 women died during, or within 42 days after pregnancy in 2014. That was up from nearly 19 per 100,000 in 2000
...
With the 2014 numbers, the United States would rank 30th on a list of 31 countries reporting data to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development -- beating out only Mexico.

Now, those are interesting facts and show us how poor U.S. Healthcare is, but I defy you to find any reference at all to "evolution", "small female pelvis", or even "large newborn". To be fair it does mention "newborn". You could look it up, I have.

Next "regular use of C-sections has led to a 10 to 20 percent increase in the gap between female pelvis width and babies’ size," proven by-

The research, published in the British Medical Journal, found that newborns delivered by C-section are more likely to develop obesity, asthma, and type 1 diabetes when they get older.

In a meta-analysis of studies, Dr. Jan Blustein of New York University's School of Medicine and Dr. Jianmen Liu of Peking University found 20 studies that link C-sections to type 1 diabetes, 23 studies that suggested a tie with asthma and another nine that found an association with obesity.

In the U.S., the overall childhood asthma rate is 8.4 percent, which jumps to 9.5 percent among those born via C-section. The obesity rate among children delivered vaginally is 15.8 percent, versus 19.4 percent among kids born by C-section. Type 1 diabetes occurs in 2.13 of every 1,000 infants born from C-section, compared to 1.79 per 1,000 babies delivered vaginally.

"It is clear that cesarean-born children have worse health, but further research is needed to establish whether it is the cesarean that causes disease, or whether other factors are at play," Dr. Blustein said in a press release. "Getting definitive answers will take many years of further research. In the interim, we must make decisions based on the evidence that we have. To me, that evidence says that it is reasonable to believe that cesarean has the potential for long-term adverse health consequences for children."

Bluetein told CBS News, "People have always known the consequences of vaginal delivery -- brain damage, cerebral palsy, shoulder dystocia -- but there is not much discussion of the long-term downsides of cesarean delivery."

Let's take a look at those margins shall we? Accepting the numbers at face value we find a 1.1% greater chance of asthma, a 3.6% greater chance of obesity, and a .34% greater chance of diabetes. As someone who has worked with statistics I can tell you that asthma and diabetes definitely fall in the margin of error and, depending on methodology, obesity does too. I'm sure the polls that had Hillary Clinton winning the Presidency had much larger sample sizes.

And even Dr. Blustein, whom I now consign to that Circle of Hell reserved for pseudo-scientist Anti-Vaxxers, concedes that these have to be balanced against the known "consequences of vaginal delivery -- brain damage, cerebral palsy, shoulder dystocia".

Not to mention the death of the mother.

Just so your kid has less chance of being fat? Also without consideration that large children carried beyond term may require a C-Section to survive because they're... large.

Now I like Bill Nye, The Science Guy. I happen to disagree with him about Genetically Modified Organism (GMO) food. He feels there is no alternative and I think it's a scam by Monsanto to sell RoundUp (basically Agent Orange). His citation in defense of this is a contemptible canard.

"I feel we have a real problem of anti-science right now," Nye said. "If you have people who are voters and taxpayers who don't believe in science, we're gonna fall behind as a society."

"Climate change is real," he said in an online video. "Let's keep in mind that there's something about which you should give a f***."

Braver asked, "Have you become politicized?"

"Yeah, well, people look at me as a political figure, for sure."

"And is that okay with you?"

"Well, what's the alternative?" Nye replied. "I mean, if climate change is objectively an enormous problem, and if you think it's because I'm a progressive and you're a conservative, then that's you putting it on me. I really work to be open-minded."

There is no doubt his point regarding evolution, which is barely mentioned in the cited article, is true (he's an evolutionist and so am I). Evolution is all around you and happening every day, even to humans.

We will return to evolution.

Finally in the links we find this statement by Wenda Trevathan, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at New Mexico State University-

“The dimensions of the infant head and shoulders are very close to and even exceed the dimensions of the mother’s birth canal in humans.”

Supported by a story about Zika Virus induced Microcephaly- Zika birth defect may surface months after birth.

The findings come from a study of 13 Brazilian babies whose heads all appeared normal at birth but then grew much more slowly than normal.

Most people infected with Zika never develop symptoms, but infection during pregnancy can cause devastating birth defects, including microcephaly, in which a baby’s skull is much smaller than expected because the brain hasn’t developed properly.

Microcephaly is diagnosed based on a measurement of the baby’s head circumference. It can be done during pregnancy using b>ultrasound, or after the baby is born. Doctors then compare the measurement to standard sizes of other kids, based on gender and age.
...
Investigators are working to determine what proportion of Zika-infected women have babies with birth defects, and how the risk varies based on when during the pregnancy the infection occurred. Earlier research has suggested that 1 percent to 14 percent of Brazilian mothers infected in the first three months of pregnancy had babies with microcephaly and that the risk falls when infections happen later in a pregnancy.

WHO’s Salama called the risk “small but significant, but it’s definitely a moving target as well.”

What is the author trying to suggest here? That the solution to small pelvises, big full-term children, and C-Sections is Microcephalic Zika babies? I'll note that the author I'm talking about here is the author of the underlying piece, the one who thought these links were relevant.

Debunk- Part 2

noun: using your feet and legs to dump someone sleeping above you on the floor.

Now for the second piece. I won't waste your time with incestuous links like those found in the first one. These are to reputable U.S. Government sources (ok, 1 to Harvard which is only semi-reputable). Instead I'll illustrate why anyone with the least understanding of biology, genetics, evolution, math, physics, and history would reject Mitteröcker's claims (as reported).

True enough that our control of our environment (such as it is) has effected our evolution, but not to accelerate it, rather to retard it. Once you have achieved the ability to modify "selective pressures" what is the advantage of modifying your genome (except for sport, which equates to Eugenics)?

What? Eugenics too strong a word for you?

Where C-sections are available, the risk of an obstructed pregnancy drops considerably. “Most cases of fetopelvic disproportion … were lethal without C-sections,” Philipp Mitteröcker, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Vienna, writes me. “Hence these mothers were not able to pass on their genes encoding for a narrow pelvis and or a large fetal size to the next generation.”
...
He predicts more babies whose heads are too big for their mothers’ hips, because, presumably, the genes that code for narrow hips and big heads have been allowed to propagate.

Eugenicky enough for you? They should be allowed to die in childbirth, mother and baby alike lest they pollute our gene pool. Next we'll come for the rest, the birth defects, the mentally ill, the chronically sick, the Gypsies, the Jews, the Politically Subversive, the non-Blonde (Homosexuals take care of themselves, they don't breed). Sure, at first it will only be forced sterilization, but why not work camps? They're just a lot of non-productive mouths to feed and detract from the security of the Homeland.

I recall another Austrian who thought that way. Hmm... who was it?

Again, this is just a theory. Mitteröcker says it would take a study of many generations of births, complete with hereditary data and skeleton size data, to confirm the prediction. “We are about to carry out these studies.”

Calling Dr. Mengele. Dr. Himmler? Dr. Heydrich?

And once again, shall we look at the numbers? What is that margin of that "fetopelvic disproportion"? .66%? Sorry Philipp. Statistically insignificant by any measure regardless of sample size (a Universe of 13 like the Zika victims? Small Universes are common in epidemiological studies but how small is yours? Did you ever even take Stats 101?).

Trofim Lysenko thought that "rye could transform into wheat and wheat into barley, that weeds could spontaneously transmute into food grains, and that 'natural cooperation' was observed in nature as opposed to 'natural selection'".

Well, that's not how it works. Even given "selective pressures" both desirable and undesirable characteristics (which are entirely subjective) take generations of breeding to manifest themselves (absent direct genetic manipulation). Mitteröcker says himself that in 1970 the rate of C-Sections was 5%. That's 46 years. How many human generations is that? Even if each girl got pregnant at 14- only 3.2.

Mitteröcker doesn’t have direct evidence for this; rather, he and his colleagues have worked out a mathematical model that predicts how many more cases of fetopelvic disproportion ought to be occurring now that C-sections are commonplace.
...
This is just a prediction, he says. “To my knowledge, this has not been shown empirically yet.”

Not Science. Fail.

Guessing Time!

So I ask you where did I pick this story up from? Stormfront? Maybe Top Conservative News or Metapedia (3 very popular Neo-Nazi Racist websites)?

Sorry, My first example is CBS News-

C-section births may give rise to evolutionary changes
By Randy Dotinga, CBS News
December 6, 2016, 3:42 PM

Citations-

U.S. death rate in pregnancy, childbirth raises "great concern"
By Amy Norton, CBS News
August 9, 2016

C-section births linked to long-term child health problems
By Amy Kraft, CBS News
June 11, 2015

Bill Nye the Science Guy: Here to change the world
by Rita Braver, CBS News
July 10, 2016

Zika birth defect may surface months after birth
Associated Press, CBS News
November 22, 2016

Incestuous at best.

My second? Vox.

Has the rise in C-sections affected human evolution? This scientist predicts yes.
by Brian Resnick, Vox
Dec 7, 2016

Media Meta Criticism Part 1

You know, that some Austrian Assistant Professor idiot preaches pseudo-scientific Eugenic Genocide doesn't concern me nearly as much as the willingness of Media Gatekeepers to believe it.

Are you going to claim that CBS News and Vox are not enough to lend credibility to this "Fake News"? Like all the rest they're going out on Facebook and Twitter and Reddit to harvest the eyeballs and get the "news".

It is Legacy Media like The New York Times and Washington Post, not to mention all the Cable and Network TV organizations, that are responsible for popularizing and validating "Fake News" like the "Benghazi Scandal" and other far right fever dreams, not legitimate sites like Naked Capitalism, Truthout, and Common Dreams who point out the falsehood of Establishment Neoliberal Media Memes and Tropes.

Meta Disclaimer

DocuDharma and The Stars Hollow Gazette are privately funded. They're cheap enough that even I can afford them and I am by no means rich. Not that I pay the rent, I am an artist and have a patron who indulges me with canvas and paint.

While I have entertained different ideas in the past (mostly related to democratizing) I don't require or desire your monetary support at the moment and am beholden to no advertiser. If you have a contribution to give in the form of content or comment it is more than sufficient gratitude.

I say this lest you believe my hyperbole above and conclude I will ever sell out or surrender.

"Nuts."- Anthony Clement McAuliffe

(Of course it's cross posted from The Stars Hollow Gazette and DocuDharma)

Special Holiday Programming News

I'm not anyone special, but I have been on some sites for a while and I know that at this time of year content can be a little thin.

This is the first of a (so far) 3 part series on "Fake News" and from now until Friday I'll be cross posting the rest of it.

Saturday is Christmas Eve and if there is sufficient interest (and I'm not begging for attention, you know I have my own things happening) I'm happy to share a Seasonal favorite, "Marley's Ghost". On my sites I'll also be embedding "It's A Wonderful Life" (provided YouTube does not remove every last damn copy of this Public Domain work) and I'll do it here also if you like.

Christmas Day I got a bunch of nothing and will be too busy to be here anyway. Monday I have "Boxing Day" which is about dealing with returns. Another piece I customarily post is called "Hessians" which is about the United States' employment of Mercenaries among other things.

I also have 3 recent articles about the new Gilmore Girls episodes. They contain spoilers so you'd better binge watch or avert your eyes now. I'm going to put those up Tuesday to Thursday.

After that we'll see. I write stuff almost every day, sometimes 3 or 4 things. I try to share what's appropriate and during the news drought I have some projects I've put off because I've been very busy so I'll certainly be keeping up the content level at my sites (The Stars Hollow Gazette and DocuDharma).

I think that during Holiday seasons it's very important for those of us who produce content and community to keep working for the readers who otherwise might feel bored, abandonded, and shut out from their usual pursuits. I've been doing this for 11 years now and I don't intend to stop.

Consider it my ek'smas present to all of you.

-ek hornbeck

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riverlover's picture

and yes, links are often ignored. Logical leaps is not science, except in hypotheses where they are allowed, if testable.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

"Many generations of births, complete with hereditary data and skeleton size data, to confirm the prediction"

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sojourns's picture

Long time no type.

Someone, a friend of mine, went on about that bit with c-sections some 30 years ago. It was his personal observation. I'd say we were about 20 yrs. old at the time. Prima facie, it makes sense. Especially to a couple of twenty year olds. Additionally, my friend also believed that it's called a c-section after Julias Ceasar. Oh well.

Now, I never watch MSM. To have it pointed out to me that the venerated CBS, etc are supporting this bullshit is more than just saddening. What can be done? Nothing I fear.

It does however, make it easier to understand as to why direct democracy cannot work.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

it is in fact named after Julius Ceasar but there's no indication it was more than an exceptionally rare procedure until modern germ sterilization techniques became available.

And 30 years ago? 5% is statistically insignificant in Genetics. Are they still your friend? Do you want them to be? As I say, I know other Austrians who entertained similar ideas about purifying the gene pool.

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sojourns's picture

Native American Church last I recall... so he could lawfully enjoy peyote. Not a bad calling I suppose.

Hmmm. I looked that up a few months ago. I can't remember why. It is controversial as to the etymology.

From Wikipedia: Pliny the Elder theorized that Julius Caesar's name came from an ancestor who was born by caesarean section, but the truth of this is debated (see the discussion of the etymology of Caesar). The Ancient Roman caesarean section was first performed to remove a baby from the womb of a mother who died during childbirth. Julius Caesar's mother, Aurelia, lived through childbirth and successfully gave birth to her son, ruling out the possibility the Roman ruler and general was born by caesarean section. His first wife however died in childbirth, giving birth to a stilborn son who might have lived had a caesarean taken place.

I also read somewheres that it is from the French word for cut, which it isn't. Could it be -- FAKE NEWS?

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

According to this: http://www.behindthename.com/name/caesar

NamePopularityRelated NamesNamesakesWebsitesImagesRatingsComments

Given Name CAESAR
GENDER: Masculine
USAGE: Ancient Roman
PRONOUNCED: SEE-zər (English) [key]
Meaning & History
From a Roman cognomen which possibly meant "hairy", from Latin caesaries "hair". Julius Caesar and his adopted son Julius Caesar Octavianus (commonly known as Augustus) were both rulers of the Roman Empire in the 1st century BC. Caesar was used as a title by the emperors that came after them.

OTHER LANGUAGES: César (French), Cesare, Cesarino (Italian), Cezary (Polish), César (Portuguese), Cezar, Cézar (Portuguese (Brazilian)), Cezar (Romanian), César (Spanish)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Caesar

Definition of Caesar

1
: any of the Roman emperors succeeding Augustus Caesar —used as a title

2
a often not capitalized : a powerful ruler: (1) : emperor (2) : autocrat, dictator b [from the reference in Matthew 22:21] : the civil power : a temporal ruler

Caesarean or Caesarian play \si-ˈzer-ē-ən\ adjective

I thought this article rather interesting, although only a portion is copied below.)

http://mentalfloss.com/article/50179/how-did-caesarean-sections-get-thei...

How Did Caesarean Sections Get Their Name?

Matt Soniak
filed under: antiquity, Big Questions, Fact Check, Origins

... The story that the C-section originates—either in practice or in name, depending on who’s telling the story—with the birth of everyone’s favorite Roman Consul has been around for a while and gets repeated often. The 10th century Byzantine-Greek historical encyclopedia The Suda reads, “For when his mother died in the ninth month, they cut her open, took him out…” Even the Oxford English Dictionary gives that story as the term’s origin. Almost every other historical and etymological source, though, is stacked behind the answer “probably not.”

To start, Gaius Julius Caesar (we’ll call him GJC from here on out) certainly wasn’t the first person born via C-section. The procedure, or something close to it, is mentioned in the history and legend of various civilizations—from Europe to the Far East—well before his birth. He wasn’t even the first Roman born that way. By the time GJC entered the world, Romans were already performing C-sections and Roman law reserved the operation for women who died in childbirth (so that the woman and her baby could be buried separately) and as a last resort for living mothers in order to save the baby’s life during deliveries with complications.

Among the still-living mothers, no Roman or other classical source records one surviving the procedure. The first known mother to make it through the ordeal was from 16th century Switzerland (her husband, a professional pig castrater, performed the delivery), and before that the mortality rate is presumed to be 100 percent. This is an issue because GJC’s mother, Aurelia Cotta, is known to have lived long enough to see her son reach adulthood and serve him as a political advisor, despite what The Suda says. Some sources even suggest she outlived him. If little GJC really was born via C-section, Aurelia was exceptionally lucky to not only survive the delivery but also not have anyone make a fuss about it and record her accomplishment for posterity. ...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

dander about this, but nothing that Mitteröcker is quoted as saying is controversial or in conflict with the modern understanding of evolutionary theory.

And no, there is nothing remotely "Lamarckian" or "Lysenkoan" about his scenario. To the contrary, it is difficult to construct an evolutionary model in which there is not some sort of balance struck between the anatomical ability of the mother to deliver the child, and the size of the child at birth, and interestingly, human babies have GIGANTIC fucking heads compared with the infants of most other species, and human females have unusual pelvic anatomy compared to the females of other mammals, including other primates. Mitterocker is not going off the rails here, he is working within a well-understood, well-defined, well-constructed hypothetical framework that, though not universally accepted, is not in any way considered to be "cranky", a la Lamarck, and even has a nice little name familiar to anybody with a serious interest in hominid evolution: The Obstetrical Dilemman.

nor, for that matter, does Mitterocker suggest that either the women or the babies ought to be allowed to die. all he's saying is:

a. via modern medicine we have made caesarian sections easily available and more likely successful for both infant and mother -- indeed, they are more likely to be performed pre-emptorily, as in cases where the delivery is difficult, but not necessarily perceived as a crisis by the medical team.

b. this means that genes coding for a size-based death-of-the-mother-and-or-the-child are more likely to be propagated.

c. this means that the rate at which such circumstances arise in the population is likely to increase.

And then he (evidently) presents a mathematical model he has created that makes a specific prediction. Of course, his model will be filled with parameters at which he and his researchers are mostly guessing -- we can hope the guesses are informed by some knowledge, but possibly not.

And that is all.

There is nothing in his presentation of the question that is not 100% in correspondence with the standard theory. Indeed, as with many "problems" presented in the context of darwinian selection, I could make the argument that the burden of proof lies, not with Mitterocker, but with anybody who thinks the phenomenon Mitterocker describes is not already happening: because what is there to stand in its way? (Similarly, BTW, the burden of proof regarding anthropogenic climate change must rest upon the deniers, because everything we know about the physics tells us that anthropogenic climate change must be happening unless there is some other, not-yet-understood phenomenon that is thwarting it.)

In fact, Mitterocker steps back from suggesting that C-section rates will someday be 100%, but if there is indeed a selective advantage for larger babies, they conceivably would. More probably, of course, they will reach some sort of equilibrium point determined by the conflicting selective advantages conferred by the different modalities of birth, as well as any as-yet un-hypothesized advantages to lower birthweight babies.

I would also advise that you not make too many assumptions about the sample size of the study correlating -- and only correlating -- caesarian births with elevations in certain downstream health problems. And yes, I'm too lazy to go check on it myself, but then, so were you -- but more and more studies are now being published that draw on the massive databases now available from computerized health records. The study could possibly have hundreds of thousands of data points, rendering your assertion about the margin of error false. I will also observe that the "margin of error" is not a magic figure handed down by the gods, but just a figure of merit arbitrarily selected by scientists. How high do you think the confidence interval should be before we say, okay, this isn't a slam dunk, but there is a meaningful indication that something is going on? On the other hand, obese women are more likely to experience pregnancy diabetes and/or pre-eclampsia, leading almost invariably to c-section, so for all I know, inheritance from an overweight mom accounts for 100% of the statistical correlation with obesity and diabetes in the child.

Regardless of which, 30% is a ludicrous rate for caesarians. Those mad, woman-hating, get-sick-and-die-quickly Norwegians have a 6.6% rate, but hey, maybe the scandinavian gene pool just doesn't have a whole lot of small-birth-canal genes or big-baby genes (though that seems unlikely). (And by the way -- the size of the skeletal birth canal is correlated with, but is not exclusively determined by, the size of the pelvis, never mind the "hips", which are defined by the femurs. A woman can have a big-ass pelvis and still have a small skeletal birth canal.) Somewhere between 50 and 75% of those American procedures are being performed, not out of any concern or interest in the health of the mother or the child, but out of concern for the convenience and efficiency of the factory model that dominates our healthcare system -- the same model that chucks mom and newborn out the hospital door after 72 hours.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

.66%?

Sigh.

If there were 6 Million datapoints it still wouldn't be statistically significant.

"Not universally accepted"? Well, there's an understatement.

You may consider 30% too high or wrongly motivated, but where then is your evidence for genetic selection if birth could have proceeded without a c-section?

And that is Lysenkoism.

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The hypothesis is well-received, and commonly held. It is not at the fringes of thought on hominid evolution -- in fact, it might be the dominant opinion, though I haven't seen statistics.

And the datapoints to which I'm referring are the ones regarding correlations between caesarian births and downstream health effects. Those are the numbers you dismissed -- they make no claim about observing an evolutionary shift, they make a claim about observing what may represent an immediate and current shift in the selective pressure of the environment, thus making an evolutionary shift possible -- or even inevitable.

And this:

You may consider 30% too high or wrongly motivated, but where then is your evidence for genetic selection if birth could have proceeded without a c-section?

... I had trouble parsing, but if you read Mokkalokkahi carefully, you'll note that he explicitly says he is not arguing that most of those 30% are going to affect selective pressure; to the contrary he explicitly states that only the ones that actually do affect patient outcomes are going to modify the selective pressure.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Mother and Baby should die?

Or are you just in favor of sterilization?

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the guy's exploring a scientific question. i don't see anywhere that anybody is advocating not doing caesarians when they are medically indicated. for that matter, c-sections are hardly the only medical treatment that are changing the evolutionary environment. y'know what else we're going to see more of? infertility. because we've developed techniques that allow women who can't conceive, to conceive; and they will pass along their inability to conceive to their offspring. etc.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

"y'know what else we're going to see more of? infertility. because we've developed techniques that allow women who can't conceive, to conceive; and they will pass along their inability to conceive to their offspring. etc."

How Eugenicky of you.

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truths, if those truths have unpleasant associations to other social or cultural phenomena?

there's nothing eugenicky about it. it's just a straightforward fact of darwinian evolution: if you remove an environmental constraint that exerts selective pressure against a trait, that trait will become more common in a population. even if i had actually advocated anything, rather than simply stating a truth, it's a long stretch to attach the label "eugenics" to (as you are inferring) a policy of not expending resources to make procreation possible for people who otherwise would be unable to procreate. eugenics in its most violent form is a rather more proactive sort of philosophy -- it involves expending resources to make procreation impossible for people who otherwise would be able to procreate. regardless, that's your axe to grind, because i'm not taking a stance either way; at least, not a moral one.

but you do seem very agitated about eugenics. i wonder -- are you opposed to couples receiving "genetic counseling" so that they can determine whether their prospective progeny are at high risk for various hereditary diseases? do you condemn couples who choose not to have children based on what they might learn in genetic counseling -- or who choose to abort fetuses determined by amniotic testing to be carrying defective genes? because that, pal, is eugenics for real, and it's going on every day all over America right now.

and no, i don't have a problem with it. how very eugenicky of me.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

"Mokkalokkahi"?

Never heard it before and it doesn't Google. As far as I'm concerned it's a bunch of nonsense.

Perhaps your name is not Shakespearean in nature, McDuff, and refers instead to some traumatic incident. I'm sorry if so, but personal experience is anecdotal not science.

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Mitterocker.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Thank you for the Christmas gift. If I read them once upon a time, they have faded from recall. Content and readers are both scarce around the holidays, and both are important and appreciated.

If 30% of births are C-sections and most of those are unnecessary, then the unnecessary ones have normal heads and their gene pool should have no impact on natural selection and future head/pelvis size regardless of birth path. What we need are babies who feed on fracking fluids and can live without water, air, money, and health care.

I would much rather have a doctor err on the side of an unnecessary c-section than risk the health of the baby.

If I don't run into you again before xmas, Merry Christmas ek.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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dystopian's picture

Just a quick comment on this comment: "Evolutionary selection over 3 Generations?"

Read "The Beak of the Finch" (Jonathan Weiner). Evolutionary selection absolutely can happen in three generations, or less. We spray a field for say army worms, and the same application to the next batch does not kill them as they are immune. In one generation. Then we spray twice as much to kill the same animal, repeat, repeat. The DNA in these animals is different now. They are immune to your poison at level that killed them two generations ago. There are many examples. Darwin's Galapagos Finches showed similar changes in beak size as quickly, dealing with big or small seed crops due to rain or drought years (see Rosemary and Peter Grants work at Princeton). DDT on wheat rust is another example. Note 14 or so species of what are considered 'noxious weeds' are now Roundup resistant. Just since some guys that sold it thought it would be great to coat the planet in glyphosate.

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

riverlover's picture

Some could be natural variation, except in our inbred crops. Plus up- or down-regulation (think imprinting or epi-genetics) could vary or be more rapidly altered than actual DNA sequence. Hell, our organs do not all have the same DNA sequences, and cancers can vary in genotype within one cell division.

And three generations in bird spp means likely some DNA is acquired from skins in collections.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

dystopian's picture

Hi RL, sorry to be slow coming back.... I am not sure the birds were DNA'd, it was phenotypic expression of bigger or smaller bills within a generation to three, which correlated with seed size and hydrologic cycle. Across multiple species on multiple islands. During droughts bill size shrank with seed size, during wet periods of large seeds bill size grew. For many the relative speed with which it occured was the relevation. The worms and wheat rust I think were DNA'd and the new poison resistant version looked the same, but obviously was not, it was now immune to something that killed it the "other day". In a generation. I think as EH mentioned that rare situation where 100% pressure exists can do it.

Apologies for getting off topic as well... The fake news monster is a major issue I don't know how to deal with. I have friends repeating the Russia meme, etc., ad. infinitum. Now Snopes is going to run interference for Facebook? I suppose we see what the dumbing down was for... the sheepleization of the people. A good democracy depends on an informed electorate. Now what?

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

In that limited Universe where there has been 100% selection and the selection pressure is persistent. The gene in question remains. Two people with the expressed characteristics of Blond Hair and Blue Eyes produce Brown Haired and Brown Eyed Babies all the time.

If you continue to kill or sterilize those with Brown Hair and Brown Eyes (persistent pressure) then you will eventually create a group that breeds true (like dogs), but only as long as you continue to mate them within the breed (inbreeding). We've run the dog experiment for about 10,000 years now and I give you-

The Labradoodle.

Breeding is not evolutionary change in the sense of speciation.

Also you overlook the limited size of your Universe- one field, one island. I can assure you that the 321.6 million people (2015) in the United States are not representative of the 7.5 Billion people alive today, in fact they are a mere 4%.

Now if I weren't so lazy I'd break out relative fertility demographics but I don't think we need to go that far to realize your particular island field is very small indeed.

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blue eyes and blond hair do not have brown-eyed/brown-haired offspring "all the time". it's a relatively uncommon phenomenon, and to some extent it depends on fairly elastic definitions of "blue" and "brown", since in fact eye colors vary across a large and multidimensional spectrum (being based on the interaction of a dozen or more genes) and the divisions into definitive categories like "blue" and "brown" and "green" and "hazel" and "grey" and "violet" are arbitrary and subjective. nevertheless, the odds of a couple, both having eyes like Roger Daltrey, ever producing a child with the dark brown eyes of my second son are almost nil -- they might even be nil. moreover, what most people are not going to want to admit is that most of the observed instances of blue+blue=brown are probably the result of infidelity, not complex genetics.

as to the distinction between "breeding" and "speciation", well, one becomes the other the instant the breeder selects a trait the genetics of which define a subpopulation that cannot viably interbreed with the main population. or maybe not. geneticists do not, in fact, universally agree on the definition of "species". dogs are, after all, not much other than highly bred wolves, and they can breed back with wolves without especial difficulty. as far as i know, though i admit it is not far on this particular question, you could fertilize a female wolf with chihuahua semen and get yourself the most fucked-up horrorshow of an entirely viable and fertile canine this side of the river Styx. even the fact that we talk about different species of wolves is a bit silly, since all species of wolves can breed with each other. which is exactly the sort of thing the geneticists discuss amongst themselves. indeed, the most widely accepted technical definition of a "species" only insists that the population must have developed unique traits based on reproductive isolation. inability to interbreed is a sufficient criterion for defining speciation, but it is not a necessary one, and by that definition, selective breeding certainly can produce "speciation", if the breeding results in a novel mutation that is then selected by the breeder until it breeds true in subsequent generations, or even if the selective breeding maintains an extant gene that for whatever reason is somehow eliminated from all other populations of that species.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Blond Hair and Blue Eyes are Recessive Genes which means at least a 75% chance of Brown Hair and Brown Eyes in a single generation. This has been known since Mendel in the 1860s.

It has nothing to do with whether the dress is White and Gold or Blue and Black.

And yes, speciation. What do you call a Mule? Infertile.

What is it with you? You obviously have an axe to grind. This piece is about Legacy Media pushing "Fake News", not genetics (too bad for you I happen to know something about that, and statistics also). I won't demand you say 'uncle', nobody cares any more except me because it's my piece, just slink away so I don't have to deal with your distractions.

This is probably my last word. Can you resist the temptation?

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You've got your genetics entirely backwards -- it is two brown-eyed parents who, in the absence of any other information, might be expected to produce 1 in 4 blue-eyed offspring (my blue-eyed sister is a case in point). Also, you've simply ignored what I wrote about biologists' definition of speciation, which is a lot more fuzzy than your high school teacher taught you. Dogs and wolves are considered different species, but they can interbreed indefinitely. Generally, a wolf-dog is not a mule.

In the Mendelian model, a recessive trait is expressed only if the organism possesses the recessive allele on both copies of the chromosome in question. Thus, if "blue" eyes (whatever exactly is meant by "blue") is a recessive trait, then Mom can only have blue eyes if she has no copies of the dominant brown allele. Similarly, Dad can only have blue eyes if he has no copies of the dominant brown allele. Which means, Junior can only have brown eyes if he got the dominant brown allele from somewhere else.

But as I said -- eye color is a lot more complicated than that. There are two particular genes (and one especially) that primarily drive the phenotype, but there are over a dozen that are involved one way or another with producing the various hues of the human iris. Beyond which, the exploding science of epigenetics is helping us to understand how and why the Mendelian model fails to describe/predict the extraordinary range of phenotypes within a given species.

And while you may, indeed, "happen to know something about genetics and statistics," statistical analysis of biological sequence data is my occupation, so no, I will neither cry "uncle" when I've got the science right, nor resist the temptation to correct your inaccuracies. I didn't introduce the matter of eye-color genetics to the comments thread of your essay, you did, and you got it wrong, which I pointed out. I wasn't being spiteful. You needn't act as if I came in here badgering and bothering you with all this genetics stuff that you don't care about.

Anyway, I've changed my mind. Pour another eggnog, relax, and enjoy the holiday. That's what I think I'll do in a few minutes -- but later tonight I'll probably log in to the servers and work on an assembly for a mammal whose genome is not yet published. It will be very cool when we publish it, if we do.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

shaharazade's picture

good god. What a thing to wake up and read. Fake news with data points sprinkled on top brought to you by the makers of roundup and agent orange and the midwives with sharp surgical instruments.

"I feel we have a real problem of anti-science right now," Nye said. "If you have people who are voters and taxpayers who don't believe in science, we're gonna fall behind as a society."

I'm not anti-science but we have a real problem with being human right now. Fall behind what? The mine shaft gap? Will it cause us to have less apps.? Technology is the fruit of science and some of these fruits (apples containing truth's being the exception) are not eatable. Dueling theories regarding what constitutes evolving.

Beats me how more c-sections and infants with big heads fitting through small pelvis's is evolution. It's invasive. I like my TV scientist's to talk about billion and billions of stars and sending more Chuck Berry. Expansions instead of contractions. Now that I don't have a TV I get my fake news from the net where everybody has credible sources and your truths can all be found in tweets.

The sick humor of Lenny Bruce....

Merry Christmas dear ek.

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evolution is values-neutral. it just happens. sometimes your car adapts to changes in the road surface by plunging over a cliff and exploding in a spectacular fireball. that is neither evolution nor progress, it's just what happens.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.