The End of Empire

Chris Hedges is one of my favourite writers, but his writing has gotten pretty dark recently.

Systems of governance that are seized by a tiny cabal become mafia states. The early years—Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton in the United States—are marked by promises that the pillage will benefit everyone. The later years—George W. Bush and Barack Obama—are marked by declarations that things are getting better even though they are getting worse. The final years—Donald Trump—see the lunatic trolls, hedge fund parasites, con artists, conspiracy theorists and criminals drop all pretense and carry out an orgy of looting and corruption.
...
“The great Roman historians Livy and Plutarch blamed the decline of the Roman Empire on the creditor class being predatory, and the latifundia,” Hudson said. “The creditors took all the money, and would just buy more and more land, displacing the other people. The result in Rome was a dark age, and that can last a very long time. The dark age is what happens when the rentiers take over.”
What comes next, history has shown, will not be pleasant. A cruel and morally bankrupt elite, backed by the organs of state security and law enforcement, will, as the Eupatridae did in sixth-century-B.C. Athens, bankrupt the citizenry through state-sponsored theft, war, austerity and debt peonage. They will reduce workers to the status of serfs or slaves. The most benign dissent will be criminalized and crushed. America’s Snopes-like elites have no external or internal constraints. They are barbarians. We will remove them from power or enter a new dark age.

Not exactly happy thoughts.
However, it got me thinking about what the end of an empire looks like, which is why I posted those two essays about the Roman Empire yesterday.
While I was researching the history of Rome I came across one surprising fact.

The generally accepted date for the end of the Roman Empire is September 4, 476 A.D.
The start of the decline is debatable, with the Battle of Adrianople, 9 August 378, as a popular date. Although I prefer December 31, 406.
But the question is, when did the Roman people realize that a thousand year old civilization was coming to an end?
It may have been the Vandals sack of Rome in 455, but even after that there are reasons to think that people would believe that Rome would rally. After all, Rome was the eternal city.

In 468, just eight years before Rome ceased to exist, Eastern Emperor Leo and Western Emperor Anthemius created a naval armada unmatched in the history of the ancient world to get revenge on the Vandals.
1,113 ships and 100,000 men.
In 1,000 years of history Rome had never marshalled so many resources. It's a feat that wouldn't be matched for another thousand years.
Surely an empire with that kind of money and military might was destined to survive for centuries to come, right?
Instead, Rome didn't even last another decade. Instead of a sign of strength, it was actually a "bet the house" gamble.

So what happened to mighty fleet?
It was one of the most disastrous defeats in Roman history.
The Vandals ambushed the armada with fire ships while it was anchored.
700 ships were destroyed and 70,000 men died.

The lesson I take from this is America's military might is not an accurate way to measure the health of our empire.
So when America's empire finally ends, it might seem a lot more sudden and unexpected than it actually is.

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Pricknick's picture

I believe it will be relatively sudden. As in the next century and a half at most.
Unfortunately, it will not be the end of an empire. It will be the end for all humans. The feedback loops of the climate are about to unleash. We stressed them and it's highly unlikely we can reverse the damage we've already done. There's no consensus among those who could make a difference other than denial and kicking the can down the road like they did with the Paris Agreement.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

If you've never read John Michael Greer, before, and are interested in how empires decline and fall, I recommend his blog (Archdruid Report). He often writes in a series of primer posts (part 1, part 2, etc.). Here's the start of a recent one about phases of the decline of empire. The posts don't link to the next part, you have to navigate from the historical post links on the right.

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dance you monster's picture

There are, very generally speaking, five broad phases in the decline and fall of a civilization. I know it’s customary in historical literature to find nice dull labels for such things, but I’m in a contrary mood as I write this, so I’ll give them unfashionably colorful names: the eras of pretense, impact, response, breakdown, and dissolution. Each of these is complex enough that it’ll need a discussion of its own; this week, we’ll talk about the era of pretense, which is the one we’re in right now.

Eras of pretense are by no means limited to the decline and fall of civilizations. They occur whenever political, economic, or social arrangements no longer work, but the immediate costs of admitting that those arrangements don’t work loom considerably larger in the collective imagination than the future costs of leaving those arrangements in place. It’s a curious but consistent wrinkle of human psychology that this happens even if those future costs soar right off the scale of frightfulness and lethality; if the people who would have to pay the immediate costs don’t want to do so, in fact, they will reliably and cheerfully pursue policies that lead straight to their own total bankruptcy or violent extermination, and never let themselves notice where they’re headed.

[snip]

That’s the bitter irony of eras of pretense. Under most circumstances, they’re the last period when it would be possible to do anything constructive on the large scale about the crisis looming immediately ahead, but the mass evasion of reality that frames the collective thinking of the time stands squarely in the way of any such constructive action. In the era of pretense before a speculative bust, people who could have quietly cashed in their positions and pocketed their gains double down on their investments, and guarantee that they’ll be ruined once the market stops being liquid. In the era of pretense before a revolution, in the same way, those people and classes that have the most to lose reliably take exactly those actions that ensure that they will in fact lose everything. If history has a sense of humor, this is one of the places that it appears in its most savage form.

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From the "era of response":

Money, let us please remember, is not wealth. It’s a system of arbitrary tokens that represent real wealth—that is, actual, nonfinancial goods and services. Every society produces a certain amount of real wealth each year, and those societies that use money thus need to have enough money in circulation to more or less correspond to the annual supply of real wealth. That sounds simple; in practice, though, it’s anything but. Nowadays, for example, the amount of real wealth being produced in the United States each year is contracting steadily as more and more of the nation’s economic output has to be diverted into the task of keeping it supplied with fossil fuels. That’s happening, in turn, because of the limits to growth—the awkward but inescapable reality that you can’t extract infinite resources, or dump limitless wastes, on a finite planet.

The gimmick currently being used to keep fossil fuel extraction funded and cover the costs of the rising impact of environmental disruptions, without cutting into a culture of extravagance that only cheap abundant fossil fuel and a mostly intact biosphere can support, is to increase the money supply ad infinitum. That’s become the bedrock of US economic policy since the 2008-9 crash. It’s not a gimmick with a long shelf life; as the mismatch between real wealth and the money supply balloons, distortions and discontinuities are surging out through the crawlspaces of our economic life, and crisis is the most likely outcome.

Also from that essay a link was cited in a comment that was fascinating. The author of that article was Robert Steel who talked about an 8 point reform of the electoral system. His article was written a year or so ago but it is still relevant in my opinion.
http://phibetaiota.net/2015/05/robert-steele-homeland-security-the-much-...
He also talks about the elements that point to an imminent revolution.

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glitterscale

yellopig's picture

Not as impressed with his musings on economics, but his historical/sociological posts are compelling.

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“We may not be able to change the system, but we can make the system irrelevant in our lives and in the lives of those around us.”—John Beckett

Bollox Ref's picture

With good periods and bad periods.....and very bad periods.

Perhaps a rump American empire will survive, flailing away at all.

Of course, the population won't be speaking English, so that might not go down well with the nativists.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Cassiodorus's picture

From 395, when Theodosius died and the Empire was split between his sons for the last time, to 1204, when the Empire was shattered by the Fourth Crusade, was the 800-year empire. The remnant that came back in 1261 was really more a collection of principalities than anything else.

Of course the problem looks different when one looks at it as a matter of the level of civilization attained at any specific time. The dismantling of the Roman Empire in the west was accompanied by a vast retreat of civilization, first in Britannia but eventually in Gaul, in Noricum, and in Italy itself after the Gothic Wars, as overexploited northern Africa steadily shrunk to nothing after the Vandals lost it. The Roman Empire in the west was by the 5th century an under-defended agricultural province of a larger Roman Empire which possessed the hubs of civilization: growing Constantinople, the big city, Athens, the fount of history (and of philosophy, before Justinian ruined that), Egypt, where the papyrus was grown, and Palestine, the religious center.

The Empire in the east was ruined by bad political decisionmaking and overpowered by two competing civilizations: the feudal empire of the Franks, and the early modern empire of the Turks. Its big city was absorbed and its backwater overrun.

Unlike either of those Roman empires, the US empire is the culmination of European capitalist empire-building, achieving its destiny after World War II exhausted Europe proper. When the US empire collapses its problem will be the maintenance of civilization itself.

http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/mora/PublicationsCopyRighted/Cities%20Timing.html

Some time in the 2040s much of the terrain of the US will become incompatible with agriculture. People die and civilizations disappear. It will be a long time before anything recovers.

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Bollox Ref's picture

has always stuck with me.

Perhaps a strong Basil, after Fawlty Towers.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Cassiodorus's picture

and greatly expanded the domain of the Empire. Didn't leave a capable heir behind, though.

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

gendjinn's picture

The Roman Empire was the moral equivalent of the Nazis/British Empire/USSR. The societies they conquered and then abandoned were not "uncivilized". They had complex societies and progressive rights/laws (Brehon Law).

Having written records does not correlate with moral superiority. Nor is having the right religion. One would think people were gnawing mammoth bones, living in skins, grunting and growling at each other. It seems the only thing we lost with the Roman empire was the 1% consuming 99% of the resources. Now that's a kind of collapse I can get behind!

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Cassiodorus's picture

for instance -- was not productive of civilized social life in Britannia. (I'm not saying that Britannia before its conquest was uncivilized -- but rather that the whole process of being conquered and then abandoned represented a reverse of fortunes in sum.) Apparently the leftovers of civilization over there came to just this conclusion and moved to Hibernia, and so today you have books such as Thomas Cahill's How The Irish Saved Civilization...

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

gendjinn's picture

The history of Arthur can be seen as a metaphor of the last glimmer of Romano-British resistance before the sea of the oppressed finally overwhelmed it. The subsequent volcanic and climactic events drove large population migrations that overwhelmed states.

The problem I find with Cahill's work is that civilization boils down to Christianity and spaces between words. Yes they preserved writings of Greeks etc but these were preserved elsewhere. And again we are back to the idea that the Francs were uncivilized until Christianity and latin were introduced. At which juncture I'm curious as to how are the peasants treated, the women, the children? Writing is great and all but hugs for tots is a better indicator imho.

Side note - grew up in north county Dublin in the midst of round towers and sacked monasteries - Vikings, Normans, Cromwell sure we only allowed the best to rape and pillage in our area!

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Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

of the Mayans. We may have better technologies, etc but climate considerations will wreck havoc on us as well. The populations in large coastal cities will have to relocate somewhere at some point due to rising sea levels. Simultaneously, I would expect numerous aquifers to be contaminated through both human and natural agencies.

Why aren't we building massive desalinization plants as we speak?

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

rather than the end of the Roman Empire...which I don't think is studied anywhere near enough nor is it even dramatized to the extent that it should be.

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solublefish's picture

My take, as a casual student of the Roman Republic, is that the Roman Empire was always in decline: it was an authoritarian military state whose primary purpose was to protect the wealth and privileges of the elite while mollifying the masses to prevent mass uprising in the overburdened city of Rome.

As a polity that aimed to serve the welfare of its citizens, the Roman Republic effectively died in the first century BC, when it proved unable to cope with the destruction of its yeoman farmer class. That class, once the most numerous of Rome's citizens, had been hollowed out and destroyed by years of imperial wars (because of course, like us, Rome was an empire in fact even as it called itself a Republic). Ownership of the land was concentrated in the hands of the patrician class and the new men (equites) who served them (like Cicero). Members of the Senate were openly corrupt, stealing public assets for themselves and bullying and assassinating their enemies, while braying patriotically about their allegiance to the grand old constitution of the Republic.

I take this argument from Sheldon Wolin and Michael Parenti. Wolin is particularly good on the political meaning of the Roman imperial state (he views it as a Machtstaat); Parenti tells in succinct prose the "economic" grounds of the Republic's decline (in The Assassination of Julius Caesar). This is an argument that fits well into the Archdruid's schema (though Archdruid himself seems to think the much later era of the Vandal invasion marks the start of the fall?) - with the last century of the Republic being the Era of Pretense. And of course, that fits also with Hudson's argument; and it makes Hedges' rant all the more compelling, I am afraid.

US "foreign" policy has for over a century now been all about the management of a neo-colonial empire. Increasingly, US "domestic" policy has been the same.

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got the people on side and was assassinated for it...although, I do think it's also fair to say that Tiberius went too far politically and revealed all the loopholes in the Republican system.

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solublefish's picture

as told by Parenti, I thought. The combination of corruption, complexity, and bad faith (among the Senators, not the Gracchi) seem to have imposed a sort of paralysis on the system of governance in Rome. It could no longer function to deal with the problems that beset society, except by bending the letter of the law (or breaking it). I first read Parenti after I had read William Greider's Who Will Tell the People, which argues that our own system now is effectively paralyzed by corruption, complexity, and bad faith, unable to address the real problems that face us because of, surprise, the power of entrenched interests.

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Stunned to to be suggesting anything written by Chris, but think it's interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-has-completely-upended-the...
Have always been fascinated by the mystical, occult, but still haven't focused on any aspect of "end times." Read some of the material Nerdsie linked. As with the Chris Hedges part of the essay, acknowledge I'm in denial (not a river in Egypt) about the dark stuff. Not optimistic about what President-elect is doing putting together an administration, just determined to staying open as possible. Finding it very hard work!

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Astronomically, we have ended the period where the energies of Pisces are dominant. While the concept of spiritual energies are left out of discussions of world events, it does not negate their effect on human activities.

While Pisces saw the rise of individualism from herd mentality, idealism - both for better and worse (fanaticism), mass education (one of the great achievements of the last 2000 years), and an unprecedented level of bloodthirstiness, selfishness and individual greed over the common good; the energies of Aquarius tend towards synthesis, interdependence and the end of the concept of separation.

The Aquarian age and its tendency to bring what is termed ceremonial order (the anchoring of great ideals as fact in the structures we build) is just starting. The ideas and structures built under the influence of Pisces are still attempting to control the world but do no longer have either the energy or the consent of the people to do so. In popular culture you see interest in zombies particularly among younger people as they are an apt analogy of the lifeless direction which past momentums are carrying us.

The future is not doom and gloom but instead a future which is waiting the collapse of the old so that a new, brilliant civilization which respects and nourishes all life on the planet is built. Within the young there is a vast army for good which inwardly know this and are biding their time until the baby boomer generation's death grip on the wheel driving world affairs is broken, likely like all things boomer, in spectacular fashion. Then a more sane generation particularly suited to deal with the challenges of our times will finally have the capacity to create the fair and just world they already envision within.

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In December, 1987, when I was still living in London, UK, a friend in the States had Jessica Murray do an extensive Native Chart for me, pages & pages long - still cherish it, consult it. Most incredible description of who I am, will be, am becoming, still can't believe a person who never met me, only knew my date, time, place of birth, could be so exact. Was in process of moving back to the States, stopped with a friend at a bookstore off Charring Cross Road. Asked to have my horoscope done, owner of store said she had a 6 month waiting list. I'd wait till I got back to States. Arrived back in my London home while phone was ringing, my dearest friend in the world calling from the States - just said, "I know your birth date, place of birth, but don't know the TIME of your birth, what was it." Chuckled when I told her, then she laughed when I told her where I'd just come from.

Carl Jung called it synchronicity, a dear friend, very religious, calls it a miracle in which God wishes to remain anonymous. What ever it's called, I believe. Feel a certain grace, wisdom, learning to live not knowing

Don't have a modicum of the wisdom you have, but feel your words: "The future is not doom and gloom but instead a future which is waiting the collapse of the old so that a new, brilliant civilization which respects and nourishes all life on the planet is built."
Thank you again for your most thoughtful comments.

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Shockwave's picture

...there are other megatrends ranging from global warming to China which is about to reclaim the #1 power status in economic and science/technology power;

China's GDP is expected to surpass the US' in 11 years
Report: U.S. Global Lead in R&D at Risk as China Rises
Chinese supercomputer is the world's fastest — and without using US chips
China Launches Pioneering 'Hack-Proof' Quantum-Communications Satellite

On the other subject matter raised by Hedges, Trump will not tolerate any effective organized opposition nd he has the power to destroy anyone who says anything he does not like. Starting with Twitter. I can see Bannon telling him and Sessions and Flynn who to go after. It will become clear within 6 months after inauguration. Eventually they'll come for us. The "free world" will look for another leader.

Just thinking aloud.

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The political revolution continues

Alligator Ed's picture

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dervish's picture

put the kibosh on that, at least partially, and the trend is definitely downward.

The world has many unofficial sanctuaries though, and places to avoid the worst of it, if need be.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Pluto's Republic's picture

At the moment, people flows are consolidating and systems are exploiting efficiencies on the fly. The circulation of things within the world. however, is revealed to be far more important that the movement of people. Transfers of ideas, technologies, and information will become more difficult for the state to capture, restrict, and exploit. But innovation dies or devolves without wide spectrum interaction, velocity, and synergy. So those channels will continue to circulate freely. The free movement of people on their own could become as restricted and regulated as the movement of money. (The difference over nearly two decades is markedly changed in a sinister fashion.) The experiences that people gain could be commodified as "virtual potentials" and hoarded by the state. Certainly during periods of internal insecurity that will be the case. It's easy to restrict the movement of people; infrastructure is designed to do its opposite by default.

The US is a totalitarian state, with benefits. During an empire unwinding, top-down mandates will often come into play for efficiency-sake. Control becomes a national obsession. The empire cycle seems to be embedded in all kinds of organic systems; the solutions and resolutions are included. The fall of Empire can even be a happy and rewarding transition. But coupled with a climate crash and rapid depopulation, it's hard to project an outcome. Those who structure their personal outcomes through mindful decision-making may be better able to move on. It's a time to think small.

Shorter: Look at future maps. Relocate to where you need to be while you still can.

This is another of the best discussions I've seen on a blog. It should be archived. Periods of rich discourse can be a leading indicator of large-scale change already underway.

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Anja Geitz's picture

I thought the censoring was being legislated right now, alongside an "investigation" into Russian influence in our elections, and the quashing of treasonous websites. Under an Obama Administration.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Lookout's picture

Rome still had plenty of silver when the empire collapsed, but not enough wood left to smelt the silver.

Mesopotamia cut all the forests and the irrigation canals silted in.

And we do it again and again.
Here's an interesting look - conquest of the land for 7000 years
http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Lowd/Lowd1.html

We are in uncharted territory with our addiction to fossil fuel, it's more than the fall of civilization, it's the destruction of the ecosystem - perhaps including our own species.

And on that cheerful note I'll bid you a good night.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

although it has been the subject of hot debate just how influential that was to the fall of The Empire

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gendjinn's picture

AND you KNOW your water pipes are lead. Then you FLUSH the water system in the morning. Unless you have acidic water like Flint you are good to go.

Lead in gasoline was not escapable, and in the US post WW2 think about the kids in cities growing up surrounded by lead. The Cheneys of this world. That's the lead poisoning problem I'm concerned about.

The Roman Republic fell because of the oligarchs. Both "parties" in Rome were captured wholly by the 1% and the colossal wealth they had to throw around. So unless you are fully committed to addressing wealth inequality and class problems then you are the enemy.

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snoopydawg's picture

overwhelming force. That's why they militarized the police in the first place. They know that one day many people are going to rise up against them and try to stop their agendas.
The police have been both practicing on the OWS, BLM and DAPL protesters, but the powers that be are also watching to see how Americans respond to their actions.
Look at how many people agree that the BLM protesters should be met with overwhelming force and they don't care how many people get hurt.
Same with the people who cheered when the attack dogs from a private mercenary organization bit unarmed people. Instead of an outcry against those actions, people said that the protesters deserved it because they are stopping the pipeline from going in. Those people foolishly think that if enough oil and gas is drilled here then we will get off foreign oil. It doesn't matter how many times they are told that the oil and gas goes on the world market.
And look what happened after the Boston bombings. The SWAT team rolled through the town and entered people's homes without a warrant and people let them become they were trying 'to keep them safe'
I thought that was a practice to see how many people would react if martial law was declared.
Remember how many people don't care that our government is spying on us because they have nothing to hide. The hell with our 4th amendment.
It's coming and it's going to be very interesting.

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SparkyGump's picture

America can continue to decline for quite some time as the festering wound of inequality slowly drains her strength but a cataclysm from the Yellowstone super volcano or a nuclear war will spell the end of the Untied States as we know it.

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The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.

I heard an radio interview where Chalmers was asked about the collapse of the Soviet empire and the victory of the American empire. He replied that the only difference is that the Soviet empire collapsed before we will. We really didn't win.

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Sorry to mess with your analogy but the Roman Empire did not fall until 1453. It survived in the east for another thousand years after Rome fell.

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Cassiodorus's picture

The Roman Empire collapsed in the east in 1204. The empire that came back in 1261 was a collection of principalities with the name "Roman Empire" attached to it. Also as I pointed out above the collapse of the Roman Empire in the west in the 5th century was accompanied by the collapse of a civilization in some of the areas abandoned by the Empire that was real enough to the residents.

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Jazzenterprises's picture

Though I believe that Americans have never been so subdued, every man has his breaking point, and if I believe in anything, it is in the smallest of revolutionary kernels that might still linger deep inside all of us... The empire might fall, but will the people? I still have hope...

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Progressive to the bone.

It's really bad fortune that as the US empire declines we have an all out war on terrorism. This has become an excuse to nullify our rights and to arm the police to the teeth. Our children and grandchildren will find themselves staring into a killing machine when they decide to protest. There will be no room or mechanism for change and that will accelerate and intensify the collapse. A perfectly rational reaction to terrorism on the US would be to simply ignore it. A very insignificant number of citizens are killed and injured by direct terrorist action. If you really want to save a much much larger fraction of the population there are much cheaper ways. For instance, improve the crash survive-ability of automobiles, or require bio-metric locks on guns.

I do agree that the fundamental factor driving collapse right now is greed of the wealthy. It has created a much more stratified society and this will just accelerate. Economic rent is an enormous tax on all of us. The irony is that Trump, having been elected as a populist and champion of the working class, will accelerate this trend. Reagan created the conditions for collapse and Trump will finish the job. Problem is that Hillary is no better.

The world is currently looking for leaders other than the US. We are on a very rapid slope to collapse as a major player.
Ten years ago we were 20% of the world's GDP and now we are 16%. That doesn't factor in the fact that our GDP is now investment sector heavy (useless stuff) and manufacturing light (useful stuff). Meanwhile China has almost doubled its share of world GDP in those 10 years. China leads the US in construction, technology, food production, and has a larger real GDP (PPP GDP). China produced 2,500 million metric tons of cement in 2014, we produced 83. All large construction projects use concrete made with cement. China produces 20% of the world's food, the US produces 10%. Who is the future and who is the past?

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

rather, it's part of the inevitable pattern of empire. eventually, the colonials begin to resist; the empire must spend more and more to maintain "order" in the colonies; the resistance becomes violent, subversive, and widespread; the suppression becomes increasingly savage, undermining the metropole's superiority complex; the PTB refuse to accept the obvious truth, which is that the economic return from the colonies is no longer sufficient to sustain the cost of subduing the colonies; etc etc etc.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Pluto's Republic's picture

…may be an embedded behavior by design.

This map shows all the places (in pink) that the white people, indigenous only to Northern Europe, invaded and colonized — immediately after they invented firearms (in the late 1400s).

Maybe there's a vaccine that can stop the plague.

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countries that the British have never invaded, nevermind Northwestern Europeans overall.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Pluto's Republic's picture

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... The world is currently looking for leaders other than the US. ...

Kinda curious as to why it's thought that the world wants a single country 'leading' everyone else? Didn't the US/its corporations just kinda barge in and take over, and isn't that why the insanely ginormous US army dwarfs everyone else's and has military bases in virtually everyone else's country as well, for a corporate/military global take-over?

Most government in many countries has been/is being replaced with corporate choices or those which have bribed, bullied or blackmailed into subjection which will do as TPTB desire, but I'd personally doubt that the actual people of any country want to be controlled by any outside agency. Democracy is always better; Canada used to have a rather nice one, comparatively speaking.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Strife Delivery's picture

While I do see the fall of the American Empire happening, slowly but surely, I also don't think that even the weakest point of that Empire will have the American people actually revolt against it. Out of any country that currently exists here, perhaps America is one of the most propaganda laden and easily manipulated. Once you get outside the borders, people around the world easily point to the many institutions in our country that are failing its people. When those that do try to protest against our government's actions, whether war or DAPL, another group of indoctrinated workers come out of the woodwork to defend the atrocities. Our government manipulates us, our media lies to us, our jobs pay little, our police harm us, and our military slaughters innocents; and yet, we don't think here in America that there is any other way to do the system.

Even more so is the people who do control our systems. Raging sociopaths who strip the poor of every last penny they have, only then to leave them out to get sick and die. They have an average human life span, and after 70-90 years of living, they will die. There is no remorse, no concerns about what future generations will struggle against what those before them created. It's just sickening, and truly disheartening. All you can do is watch, hearing the creaks of the ship as it slowly breaks apart.

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