Remember the Predicted Dem Landslide? Anyone Taken Accountability For That Bit of Delusional Thinking?

Not so very long ago, it was common wisdom among the commentariat, whether online or on TV, that Hillary Clinton was about to usher in a game changing landslide victory for Democrats in the 2016 election. Great minds explained in great detail why her victory, and that of her party, were inevitable this election cycle. A few examples will suffice:

Jason Easley of PoliticusUSA (8/31/2016):

Moody’s analytics model has correctly predicted every presidential election since 1980, and their data forecasts a Democratic landslide in 2016.

According to Dan White who is the senior economist at Moody’s Analytics:

Our Moody’s Analytics election model now predicts a Democratic electoral landslide in the 2016 presidential vote. A small change in the forecast data in August has swung the outcome from the statistical tie predicted in July, to a razor-edge ballot outcome that nevertheless gives the incumbent party 326 electoral votes to the Republican challenger’s 212.

San Francisco Chronicle article, "Democrats see Clinton landslide, takeover of Congress on horizon." (10/12/2016):

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has been predicting a Democratic takeover of the House every two years since she lost the speakership in 2010. The San Francisco Democrat has been wildly off base each time. Now even Republicans think she could be right. [...]

The ground began to shift toward a potential Clinton landslide about 2½ weeks ago when Republican nominee Donald Trump began a disastrous slide in the polls. Among a multitude of missteps and revelations, Trump bragged that not paying taxes “makes me smart,” and was caught boasting on a 2005 tape about groping women. New polls now show deep-red states such as Georgia drifting within Democratic range. [...]

As Trump hemorrhages critical blocs of swing voters, he is becoming isolated to his narrow base of fervent Republican supporters. That puts Republican politicians down-ballot from Trump in an impossible box: abandon their nominee and with him their own base voters, or stick with Trump and face retribution from the rest of the electorate. [...]

“The ground is moving fast, as we speak,” said Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Dublin, who has been traveling the country in an outreach effort to young voters. Swalwell said Trump “never misled us about his intentions,” so Republicans who now want to disown him are “going to pay a price for that because they didn’t have the courage to stand up to him early.

“I don't think there’s anywhere for them to hide.”

Martin Longman of Booman Tribune, "Here Comes the Landslide" (10/19/2016):

Among political prognosticators, there have been two main camps in this election. One camp argued that the country has become rigidly polarized to a point where any Republican or Democratic nominee starts out with 40% support and the battle is only over the 20% of voters who don’t align with either side. The other camp, represented by me, argued that there was nothing permanent about our relatively stable red/blue state split and that we’re reaching an inflection point where one side or the other would decisively “win the argument.” [...]

... For more than two years, I’ve been identifying signs that this could well be a landslide election, and I predicted that it wouldn’t be a close election with even more confidence than I predicted that the Democrats would win.

As Nancy pointed out, the polls are now pointing in the direction of a Reagan-sized blowout. Among the signs to look for are evidence that red states are going to fall into Clinton’s arms, that Trump is cratering below the 40% floor, and that Clinton is polling above 50% in the four-way race with a healthy number of undecideds still out there.

For now, though, it looks like I was right. This is not going to be another red state/blue state election. Trump has lost the argument.

If you want more evidence of premature elation over Clinton and the Democratic Party's prospects, feel free to check out the following links: Clinton Consolidates Lead Among Democrats, Trump Not Gaining Republicans; How Big Is Clinton’s Lead?; Florida spirals away from Trump. There are quite a few more, especially if you are willing to look back during the summer months when pundits dreamed of the Clinton machine steamrolling over Trump and the GOP in an electoral win of epic proportions.

So what went wrong? How did so many of these very bright, well-educated people get things so terribly wrong? So wrong in fact that many of them can respond only with paroxysms of outrage and venom against millennials, white men, third party voters, and, of course, Bernie Sanders and his mythical sexist "Bernie Bros."

I can only offer up my gut feeling for what its worth. As I see it, many of these people were very invested in a Clinton victory on both an emotional and financial level. Thus, they rarely looked outside their own echo chamber, much less talked to those who had strong negative opinions of Hillary Clinton, both as a candidate and party standard bearer, much less as a deeply flawed, corrupt human being. They reinforced the facile analysis that dominated corporate media, which emphasized Trump's negatives (of which there were many), and ignored the very real scandals that the wikileaks disclosures revealed regarding Clinton. They believed the polls that often had a built in bias for Clinton.

But this year we saw something different: Almost all the swing state polls overscored Clinton’s numbers by two to six percent. This error is called “systematic” or “correlated error.” Since it affected most or all polls, it was probably caused by some common disrupting factor or factors that were outside the well-established and hitherto reliable poll methodology itself.

In my opinion, far too many of them only looked at data that was favorable to Clinton, data which confirmed their own bias and prejudices, and ignored or disputed any information that suggested a Clinton victory was far from a sure thing. They ignored Trump's populist message that clearly resonated with the large crowds he continued to draw at his public appearances. In short, they believed their own bullshit.

The question now remains, are any of these people going to change course and reflect on why they missed the outcome of this election so egregiously, or are they just going to continue to double down, and point the finger at anyone but the Democratic Party, the media, the Clinton campaign, and of course, at themselves and their own role in creating the false perception that there was no way in hell a rude, crude, and and socially unacceptable degenerate like Donald Trump could possibly prevail? The current signs, unfortunately, are not good. And that is a shame, because, as Sanders' proved this year, there is an enthusiastic and growing number of people in our country to whom a true progressive agenda is very appealing, people who turned out in massive numbers to hear him speak before the DNC emasculated him.

People are hungry for authentic politicians, people such as Bernie Sanders, who have a record of fighting for the rights of everyone who suffers under the oppression of the pro-austerity, neo-liberal policies favored by the establishments of both major parties. Neo-liberal policies that benefit only wealthy elites and transnational corporations at the expense of the middle class and the poor, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or any other category into which they wish to place us. Many of the people in those "flyover states" who turned to Trump, the faux populist and demagogue, did so out of desperation. They would have voted for Sanders had they been given given the chance.

It is precisely because the Democratic Party's establishment made certain that Sanders would not be given an equal chance to win the nomination, and actively worked against his campaign, using all means fair and foul to ensure Hillary would be selected as its the nominee, that Trump won. Making her their candidate directly led to the situation in which we now find ourselves: a federal government completely controlled by the one party, the GOP, that has always attracted and welcomed into its ranks, racists, sexists, white supremacists and bigots of every stripe.

Perhaps the "bubble people" will come to their senses, and realize it wasn't our backing of the only real progressive in the race that spoiled Hillary's victory. We are not responsible for her multiple failures on the campaign trail that ended up giving power to a man they consider a "fascist" and "Nazi". Their concern for the lives of vulnerable populations (the very people they so blithely incorporate into their so-called "multicultural coalition") would have been better served had they supported Sanders from the beginning.

Instead they chose to willfully turn a blind eye to Clinton's numerous flaws and misdeeds. They actively supported and propped up one of the most deceitful, disliked, corrupt and distrusted politicians to have ever been nominated by any party in our Nation's history. That is their cross to bear, not ours. The sooner they come to terms with their own role in this disaster, the better. If not, and if they support the rotted husk of the Democratic Party as it is presently constituted, they will find themselves on the wrong side of history, to the detriment of all who dream of a better, more just and more sustainable world.

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...I just went "there," too. But, I did it "elsewhere."
SEE: "Garbage In, Garbage Out. Turns Out Clinton's Ground Game Sucked" (And, Other Observations)

I don't know if it was the criticisms of the Clinton campaign, or the fact that I commented about how Markos just tweeted that "Neo-Nazis are better than Bernie Sanders" in the piece--or my call for Markos to resign as CEO of Daily Kos--which generated the response my diary's getting at Orange State. But, in any event, it's interesting!

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"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson

Steven D's picture

or a confirmed masochist.

Didn't know you we're a lying hateful libertarian pos before today though. The things you learn at TOP.

Smile

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

...the posts and comments over there. Sooooo damn informative! LOL!

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"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson

Dow Jones closed today OVER 19,000. first time ever.
Smile

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Bollox Ref's picture

costing Clinton victory in Florida......... in a small, white-tiled room. For observation purposes.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

"Give Hills a few yrs and she'll be ready for another run. Besides, it's technically still 'her turn.'"

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Plato2016's picture

All of those "donors" who lost piles of money by backing her might still be looking to cash in next time. And just imagine how incompetent she will be with 3-4 more years of whatever illness she has and living in the bubble of wealth.

I feel more of an urgency to stop the Clintons than to stop Trump...

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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato

The only way I can think of right now is t have dem lawmakers go along with any of Trump's pro-corporate policy proposals. That is, ensure dems get the donors some piece of the action. Bernie has been attacking Trump's early proposal to have private sector finance infrastructure construction. This will only work on projects where the private contractor can extract revenue from tolls, etc. Work on other non-profit infrastructure won't be touched as a result. Sounds like a job for Rahm Emmanuel who has been selling off Chicago's infrastructure.

Anyway the point is that corporatist dem lawmakers will be able to find ways to support Trump's proposals.

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elenacarlena's picture

Losing candidates don't usually get to run a second time. Let's not make it 3; haven't we had enough?

It's enough to make one pray the Parkinson's or whatever the heck it is takes her more quickly.

America is in an anti-establishment mood, Clinton morans!

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Ken in MN's picture

...that comment was snark...

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I want my two dollars!

that those from TOP with the best political instincts came over here.

The ability to predict disappears with emotional investment. We all saw the tsunami of populism, anti-establishmentarianism, the anger, the corruption. Emotionalism = blinders.

I only read a few comments down your post, but it seems they were all blaming everything except the DNC. We all know (what with our excellent political instincts Smile that things might have been much different had they not crammed Hill down our throats. For that matter, they and Hill selected Donald on the assumption he was so awful we'd HAVE to vote for her.

We knew how corrupt she was before Wikileaks and Comey. The emotional ones claimed it was all RWNJ smears. They ignored the proofs we offered.

BTW, my favorite phrase in the Parenti article is "colossal arrogance". It was part and parcel of the "emotionalists". Yup. Just made up a word!

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Many including me had been saying for months that Trump would make wide gains in the rust belt and smash the blue wall.

It is still easy to believe in a normal election(not 2016), that the Democrats in fact likely have a complete lock on the presidency, the demographics are vastly against them, they are running out of ways to keep enough people away from the polls, most rural states have either been shrinking or stagnating population wise whilest, the big States have been exploding, further deepening the clear structural disadvantage the ruubs have.

That combined with polling from typically trustable outlets, and the media echo chamber.

A epic shitload ton of money was dumped into create a media perception, and long before the election or even primary, Vox media group(TOS) being bought by msnbc, in a buyout orchestrated by Hillary herself. The media industry is a huge supporter of TTIP, of which Hillary would have surely signed making out IP laws even stupider then they already unconstitutionally are. Hillary has been planting surrogates on the boards of all the Media companies for decades now, we know that they were growing apparently "Grassrooty" blogs how do you think Markos managed to get interviewed on the news so often, or how DU managed to expunge all the Bernie supports so quickly. They most certainly have been analysis on every post and diary made to every one of these sites, They knew who to ban, what posts didnt fit the model, and it was all to fast to simply be administration, It was an intentional design to manage what people saw in the internet. And when that failed they moved predictably to trying to discredit the demographics most likely to not fit the model to reduce the damage to the demographics that did. This has been a long term tactic setup specifically for and when her "turn" came up, all carefully and willfully planned.

Her Majesty's failed takeover of the progressive/liberal blog-o-sphere, at this point should be looked on as a great and wonderful gift, We hopefully can use the new progressive blog-o-sphere free from the quiet unseen manipulations of the corrupt.

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They thought we were stupid.

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The meltdown in the comments is delicious.

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...in my diary. Don't recall ever seeing that before. LOL!

Good to see you here, psychodrew. (Remember reading a comment or a post from you here, recently. Are you in the Harrisburg, PA area now? Or, did I misread it? Very familiar with it. I'm there a few times a year.)

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"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson

Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

DKos is loaded with chicken shit hardasses...

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
Hillbilly Dem's picture

the Democratic Convention because of your link. I did check out "Daily Kos Staff". It "joined" (I guess that means obtained a username ) in 2015 and has had 69 comments, FWIW. Loved your essay by the way. And the comments were insightful.

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Bob i really dont know what you expect from those DIPSHITS over at that vile propaganda machine DailyWALLSTREET.You might as well bang your head against the wall,thats how much good your doing over there and then bringing that insanity here.That place is a lost cause it has been for some time,and sadly so is the Democratic party.Dont feed the BEAST!Markos is throwing out the bait and your gulping it up making him money using your talents against you.FUCK THAT HELLHOLE!You are such a shining light with your talent to express ideas that so many of us share but cant because we dont have your skills,use them HERE!This place is really starting to take off as a strong voice for progressives WE NEED YOU HERE!Forget them LOSERS

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DW

elenacarlena's picture

I love it when you irritate the Hades out of them. And am amazed when you're not bojo'd.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

Only one real name-calling Clinton fan, the rest were pretty whinny. And not much mention about the' neo-nazi better than Sanders' remark, even when pressed. I thought that place was full of SJWs who were dedicated to truth, justice, and the American... Wait, we're talking KOS here? I forgot. It's okay to be a bigot if the bigotry is aimed at the current poster boy/boogie man who threw a monkey wrench into the planned-on coronation. Or if that someone is criticizing the Clinton creature. Then it's okay to call them ten tons of mother f*ckers.

That place must really be in an Orange Funk.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

I've seen it before but I don't know what it is! someone please edumacate me!

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detroitmechworks's picture

If you ask a typical Conservative, they will claim they are a humorless, obsessive person who takes up causes for people who actually aren't offended by behavior or statements, but SHOULD be, therefore the SJW is within their rights to silence opposing views through legal actions and online bullying.

If you ask a person who identifies as an SJW, you will hear someone who claims to be for listening to oppressed minorities of all types, actually caring, and identifying their own privilege and how it affects others without they themselves actually realizing it.

This is of course a broad stereotype for both sides, but cuts to the heart of why one side considers it an insult, and the other a badge of honor.

Edit:
Oh, and the direct acronym is : Social Justice Warrior

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Sounds like it's sorta like "political correctness"- could be good or bad depending on which side you're on.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

of talkin' but very little walkin'.

Like President Hopey-Changey with his 'comfortable - but missing - shoes' and his self-serving elitism

...down to...

those who have no problem with someone calling a Jewish guy campaigning for universal healthcare, education, and economic fairness for all 'lower than a neo-nazi' and yet have the gall to constantly hurl claims of 'racism' and 'bigotry' and the favorite - GET READY FOR IT- **sexism*!!!** against the candidate and anyone who simply did not believe she was fit for the Presidency. And they're still doing it. Go figure.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

elenacarlena's picture

Speaking as a proud real SJW, I have read where the few fake SJWs should be called Injustice Collectors. I think that fits. Bern himself, I would say, has been a real SJW, considering his marches and arrests back in the day, and to my eye and ear, still concerned about everyone. Especially, of course, economic justice.

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Plato2016's picture

n/t

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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato

sensetolisten's picture

some honesty is being spoken there, or at least, a measure of honesty. I say only a “measure”, my dear esteemed, bobswern, because no one, and I mean, NO ONE is speaking the truth, not fully, not even your wise words. Yes, you are most definitely speaking the truth of the extreme irony exposed in markos’ absurdities, but let’s talk about what really happened --- the real demographics, and what markos’ current rant merely is but the tip of the iceberg, and the real cultural phenomena.

Firstly, The SJW is the heart of DailyKos today, aka, BlackKos, and BlackKos holds DK by the balls and squeezes whenever anyone steps out of line, and the BLM movement is the whip. The populist movement rejects the SJW’s language/thought-police mind control brainwashing tactics, and is inspired by authentic honest candor. Bernie had it. Trump has it. Whether you agree with their policies or not, they speak honestly, or at least, Bernie did until he cowtowed, which began when he said, “enough of the emails” and his fate was sealed when he failed to mention the real elephant in the room, MASSIVE ELECTION FRAUD.

The polls all lied. They were rigged.

The primary was rigged.

So why wasn’t the general election rigged?

My best guess theory, speculation: probably because 16 Military and Intelligence Agencies, (along with, numerous Law Enforcement groups) stepped in and shut down the corruption behind the scenes.

The polls were all rigged to support a narrative that would have made Hillary’s win plausible. But the Mil-Intel groups, who refused to let a Traitor become the Command in Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces, a lady who committed High Treason, who has the blood of too many on her hands, from Iraq, to Libya, to a frightening list of body bags “suspicious deaths” going back 30 years, and racketeering, and selling arms to brutal regimes with more blood on her hands, etc etc etc.... yeah, her election was lost by powerful people behind the scenes who SHUT DOWN the corruption.

Hillary did NOT win the popular vote, their rigging was only allowed to do that (rig the popular vote), because the Mil-Intel didn’t care about that narrative, which only served to allow the DNC to save face with a narrative that allowed them to deny how terrible Hillary really did.

Stein probably did MASSIVELY better than anyone knows, because the DNC needed to have Johnson do better than Stein, so that the Green Party didn’t threaten to replace the Democrat Party. The online polls, which are the only polls I trust, but do require an understanding of their slant, show that 70% of the liberals supported Stein, which means that Hillary’s numbers cratered. Tanked. Rock Bottom.

Trump unified the conservative base, but he didn’t just unify it, he energized and mobilized it. Beltway pundits claim that Trump did not have a “ground game” and yet, he did, and it was massive, except Trump just didn’t spend a dime on it, it was all FREE and volunteers. Self-organizing volunteers. Their voter registration was massive. His rallies were massive, and they were massive in red states, swing states, and blue states. It didn’t matter what states. 20k to 30k. He was holding 4 to 5 rallies a day up until the very last day. He would show up 3 hours late, at 1:30 am, in the freezing cold, and there were still 40k people waiting and they were ecstatic.

Why?

Because he was honest and authentic.

Markos/BlackKos/SJW were the nazis word police, whenever anyone said anything that stepped out of line. And all the while, the alt-right, which really is the online “trolling” culture are saluting “Zieg Heil” in mock contempt for the PC bullshit that has taken the place for REAL honest authentic activism. They have the crowds because they are being honest. Yes, Trump is calling out a concern for Muslim extremist, and he and his supporters were labeled a racist for this, and yet, the Islamist religion kills gays. Yes, the extremist elements of the Islamist religion is the worst abuser, but how much of the Islamist culture is in direct conflict with the western freedoms and accepting of people’s sexuality, or our freedom of speech? Hence, Trump and his followers say that they are the real threat, which is the main argument by the alt-right, and they are correct.

Markos absurd comments about cultural diversity are even more absurd because the alt-right is actually NOT about “white nationalist”, it is, I am coming to realize, about “Western Values” of cultural diversity, but the PC/SJW of Markos’ hue are focused on “words” and not “substance”... which makes his commentary a truly absurd caricature.

And all the while, we have our beloved Keith Olbermann step back into the political fray with brilliant ignorance, citing all of Markos’ party line lies, as if they are true, railing against Trump, with sound and fury, signifying NOTHING.

Trump won in a landslide victory with a landslide popular vote that was so massive that the fucking black box rigging couldn’t even stop it.

The DNC rigged the primary, which killed the liberal populist movement. Many democrats voted for Trump but were afraid to tell anyone because of their fear of retribution, or they voted for Stein, or they just did not vote. As an “out of the closet” liberal democrat who openly supported Trump, I had MANY people emailing me in private telling me that they were voting for Trump. And I heard numerous stories of Bernie delegates, who had switched to Hillary, being loyal blue, but after spending several hours phone banking for Hillary, had to stop because of the amount of abuse they were receiving from the people they called.

EVERYONE KNEW THE PRIMARY WAS RIGGED.

It was rigged in 8 different ways.

If I had the time and will I could post 50 links and videos to back up everything I have said here, I do not. Consider it all fact.

None of the comments on DailyKos are even remotely speaking about the REAL FUCKING WORLD. The only community I see who are speaking about the real world is the alt-right, and they are throwing non-PC comments out, like the trolling spirit is want to do, just to get people’s goat, and get a rise, so they are labeled racist Nazi, and all the while, the BLM movement holds rallies across this nation smashing cars and breaking windows and beating up old people and little children and throwing kids out of their mom’s house, or writing death threats, because they voted for Trump, or they are issuing death threats to the electoral college if they honor the law and vote for Trump, who was honestly elected. So who is the fascist? I say it is Markos and BlackKos and all of their SJW minions who are terrorizing innocent honest folks all over this nation. THEY are the evil that has infected this nation. They are giving liberals a bad name, and this is the first time in my life that I am embarrassed to be associated with liberals. Liberals have become the close minded corrupt abusers. And THAT is why they lost. Not even Bernie had the balls to call out Hillary for the pure traitorous corruption of her Email Server and the obvious Clinton Foundation money laundering crime syndicate lie behind it. And do you think the Mil-Intel community was gonna back a Bernie Sanders if he did NOT expose the rot that had infected the heart of the Mil-Intel Agencies, when that rot was a “clear and present” threat to the United States of America? People died. Special Forces military were compromised, and died. Intelligence covert operatives were compromised, and died. Covert missions behind enemy lines in hostile territories were compromised, and failed, over and over and over, until they removed Hillary’s State Dept from the loop. THEY KNEW.

Top Secret SAP Emails? Do you grasp the gravity of that?

As I said, the story of this election occurred at the highest levels of the Mil-Intel Agencies, who SHUT DOWN the DNC corruption, but the DNC was still allowed to run their narrative to hide how terribly Hillary lost, because the entire world KNEW, because everyone outside of DailyKos and the liberal MSM bubble were reading the WikiLeaks dumps, and it was so absurd that SNL made a cartoon out of them. Please.

THAT is the story.

And then they post an absurd FAKE NEWS list of sites, and they do not include the worst of the fake news sites: CNN, MSNBC, NY TIMES, .... lol ..

How comical can these idiots be?

And Markos and Armando continue to rail their inane self-righteous holier than thou corruption, furious that the plebes no longer worship at their feet. FUCK THEM. And fuck people like Meteor Blades for not have the balls to stand up and say something, when it mattered, when we all know that MB loved Bernie and everything Bernie stood for, and yet now, when we really need a President Elect Sanders to deal with Standing Rock DAPL in a responsible respectful manner, we President Elect Trump. Hillary would have done nothing for the DAPL cause, and Obama is doing nothing for the DAPL cause. You were correct, Bobswern, Markos needs to step down, but it is much much worse, the entire DailyKos community of BlackKos SJW's need to step down. They have coopted and betrayed the liberal cause in the worst of possible ways, they are truly the wolf in sheep's clothing.

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“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
Shahryar's picture

unless they asked 5 of her donors. Then she probably had 60%.

On election night I heard two interesting commenters. One was laughable, the other made sense. The laughable guy was a pollster who explained why he was right even though the outcome was different from what he predicted. The other guy was a Republican who said that pollsters were limiting their respondents to what they called "likely voters". This is usually those who have voted 3 or 4 times over the last 4 elections. But in this one there were so-called "likely voters" who sat it out, either not voting at all or leaving the Presidential line blank and there were some people who hadn't voted in awhile who came out to vote for Trump.

Anyway, as those of us who can read numbers can see, Hillary is still in the 62mil+ area, compared to Obama's 2008 total of 70mil+. I chuckle when I see things like "Hillary got more votes in this election than any white man in history" as if nobody knows that the population is always increasing and the number of eligible voters goes up, as if nobody notices that Trump just got more votes than any other white man in history, as if nobody notices that we have an electoral college and that everybody knew that's how it's decided...and that it was ok a week and a half ago.

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Plato2016's picture

There were probably a lot of people who did not admit aloud to pollsters that they were leaning Trump. Or to their friends. Or to their families. I think Nate might have mentioned it once or twice on 538.

Let's say a middle aged white man has lost 2 factory jobs and is now working at 1/4 of the wages he once earned. There is little prospect of ever having any more -- in fact, earning power will probably go down. He is surrounded by women (who he cares for) that would call him sexist if he mentioned Trump. He may have a few friends who are LGBT who he would never dream of hurting and they tell him how afraid they are of Trump. His daughter is married to a Latino and he loves his son-in-law's family. He lives in a low-income community of color and feels comradeship with others who have been left behind.

He looks at Hillary as a cunning, self-serving, lying egomaniac who is raking in the cash but doing very little for "humanity" and feels that nothing will change. Trump comes in with a message of "jobs" and "anti-establishment" and this voter feels the "hope" that he once felt when Obama spoke.

This voter can say whatever will please those around him and cause the least amount of disturbance when discussing the choices. But, once he is filling out his ballot, he only has to answer to his own inner conscience.

With the Dem party arrogance and conceit, with their contempt of dissent, with attempts at shame and humiliation, they seem to have forgotten that the secret ballot is still a tool to fight back.

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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato

Pluto's Republic's picture

It leads to some original thinking I haven't seen, The inner processes you describe feel so much like the quiet transformations I've seen and heard about.

People were definitely lying to the pollsters. That same behavior was spotted earlier in the year in the UK, where the polls also failed dramatically. Although I think Nate Silver knew the data was finessed. Since he's not a pollster, himself, he had some distance on the data. It's likely he could see the larger patterns at work, which is the key to predictive technologies.

Nate aggregates other people's polling data, but it's not just about math and averages for him. He weights the data and can factor in trends and patterns he sees. About three weeks out from election day, he seemed to lose confidence in his numbers. He began stepping down Hillary's odds despite the polling data. It irked a lot of people, including Markos, who put Hillary's chances of winning at a whopping 97 percent, the highest in political cyberspace.

In reading your scenario about the "middle aged white man" it dawned on me for the first time that the day they knocked Bernie out of the race and put a leash on him — all the waves of probability collapsed. That was the day Trump won. There was no one else for your man, and millions more like him, to vote for.

It also dawned on me that most of the Americans who were experiencing the reversal of fortune that extreme income inequality brings, were not seeking scapegoats. They were heaping the blame on themselves for their own public failure. There was a concurrent spike in their death rates. Bernie Sanders is the one who explained to Americans what the Neoliberal-greed-and-globalism mechanism had done to their lives. He showed them how recent policies directly led to their economic adversity. Millions of self-defeated Americans found redemption in his message. People drove for days to see a Bernie rally. The size of the crowds outgrew the nation's stadiums.

What happened to them all?

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
elenacarlena's picture

"they'll vote for a winner," and instructing/buying off the pollsters, who have been shown to have polled almost no independents and no millennials. And if they still didn't get overwhelming Hill support, who's to say they didn't just make up the numbers? Take 20 from Trump, 10 from Jill, and add 30 to Hill.

But nobody ever thought, "If you convince everyone you're winning by a landslide, they won't bother to go out of their way to vote". I tried to explain this on DKos and was told to take my concern trolling elsewhere.

You may be right, maybe there was a lot of lying. But I don't think so. I think the polls were bought by the Clinton millions. And they thought people vote for a winner.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

It may be as you say, but we do know the polling numbers were wrong.

In England earlier this year, the people did lie to the pollsters about whether they were going to vote to separate England from the European Union. They told the pollsters "no" but they voted "yes." The English are going through the same disruptive austerity for the same reasons that Americans are.

It's the first time in recent history this behavior has been observed in general polling samples — the lying and deception. There was fear. It was an act of desperation.

The whole thing is disturbing, when you think about it. This is not the end of it, IMO. It's likely part of a bigger trend or rection.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

I would bet good money that all of the polling reflected hillary's huge unpopularity throughout. Hell, the wikileaks showed us how concerned her own team was about her public perception. It seems apparent their strategy was: 1. make trump unacceptable and frightening to minority demographics (not that there wasn't material to work with) thereby 2. making her inevitable. They really tried to manufacture consent, with the help of the media. It was the only path she had. The problem ultimately was that they deluded themselves into believing their own propaganda, as it was reinforced all over the place.

I found the most telling slip of their desperation was when she went back to the trump's a misogynist well a week before the election, recycling the ads of his treatment of women. That had stench of defeat all over it.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

1. make trump unacceptable and frightening to minority demographics (not that there wasn't material to work with) thereby 2. making her inevitable.

The Dems non-stop self-generated hysteria over Trump achieved absolutely nothing whatsoever, as might be expected. It was fire-hosed propaganda disruption. But it resulted the total abandonment of all discussion of issues facing American voters. All national discussions were shut down. Did Hillary discuss Syria policy with the American people? (Actually that discussion is an unthinkable concept now that Defense and the State Department are ruled by the permanently installed Neocons and their foreign Lords.)

All three debates occurred and passed with vacated, word-salad discussions on matters of life and death for the Throwaway people who have been captured by the US Plantation economy.

I have a special prison in my mind where I keep the lying betrayer, Judith Miller. Now she is joined by more than half of the Hip Left politically inclined celebs and pundits for crawling on their bellies like reptiles in epic shameful pandering to the Democratic Elite.

Seriously, they are dead to me. I put them all in jail with Judith, and changed all their names to Victoria Jackson.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
tapu dali's picture

Tovarich Ivanovich, why are you afraid to let your comrades know of your choice?

Only enemies of the People keep secret their counterrevolutionary thoughts!

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

joe shikspack's picture

The question now remains, are any of these people going to change course and reflect on why they missed the outcome of this election so egregiously, or are they just going to continue to double down, and point the finger at anyone but the Democratic Party, the media, the Clinton campaign, and of course, at themselves and their own role in creating the false perception that there was no way in hell a rude, crude, and and socially unacceptable degenerate like Donald Trump could possibly prevail?

they are going to double down.

they will attempt to generate as much hysteria about trump as a dangerous fascist dictator as they can, hoping that they can whip up their base (who they warned about staying home!) into a frenzy of electoral activity to sweep the democrats back into office, despite the fact that they will continue their destructive neoliberal wars and economic austerity agenda.

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I'm not convinced that it will work though. One of the benefits of this election cycle (and I like to credit sanders as the catalyst) is that the masks fell from so many faces. The psuedo-liberals (progressives?) in the party exposed their underlying neoliberal convictions. Nancy Pelosi yelling at voters to shut up, they're not going to get universal health care. Barbara Boxer fabricating a tale about chairs being thrown and feeling unsafe (some of that sniper fire glory rub off on ya, Babs?) in order to demean decent citizens participating in the political process, John Lewis soiling his legacy by trying to paint the clintons as civil rights warriors while intimating that sanders lied about his history. The DNC collusion with the clinton campaign that the party refuses to address (to say nothing of the primary election fraud/irregularities). The left media- Nation, Atlantic, Mother Jones, New Yorker (?) all exposing their commitment to the neoliberal status quo with their mendacious and incessant hagiography of clinton. And the list goes on and on.

I raise all of this to say that these exposures will not soon be forgotten. Those politicians who stood with hillary (especially the superdelegates who sold themselves to her) will be viewed with skepticism, if not outright disdain, from here on out. The party will resist changing, but I think we have reached a critical mass at which the people will have their say. I hope so, at least.

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CaptainPoptart's picture

coming to their senses. Finger pointing is all they are capable of because anything else would be an admission of their own responsibility. But I don't think we've seen the last of Bernie, now our one hope for slowing things down.

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I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings

JekyllnHyde's picture

... to trust any longer the judgement of this mass of mediocrity which was pathetically and spectacularly wrong in predicting this election's outcome. Here is a perfect example of such mediocre thinking on DK. The premise of this article suggests that the Democratic candidate was unaware of the rules of the game.

Arrogance can be tolerated only if there's justification for doing so. It's one thing to trust people who made such outlandish claims if they had a great deal of experience working on presidential campaigns, or had the requisite academic background to analyze political trends. The ones on DK and other such places (particularly the ones who scream the loudest) are appallingly lacking in both areas.

Not that it matters, as political elites and experts were consistently and uniformly wrong for well over a year. That, in spite of many warning signs that suggested that Hillary Clinton was one lousy, unappealing candidate.

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A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

Poor sweet Miss Veneality.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Bernie would have won.

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"My candidate lost" = so change the Constitution, all the elites, highest earners, living on the East and West coast get to decide who will be POTUS.
Forget all the people living in the rest of the country - and what's the "use" of this Federalism, anyhow? Smile
Bubble. huge knitting needle...

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Bollox Ref's picture

I voted for Sanders during the primaries and was disappointed that he didn't receive the nomination (thanks DNC!!). But I moved on. My 'World' survived with nary a psychic dent.

These Dead Staters take it to a whole new level. How does one get so wrapped up in a politician? It's cult-like.

(Edited)

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

movie buff's picture

about "Bernie Bros" and "messiah complexes," Hillary Clinton was always the one with a cult of personality. This is probably one of the most politically incorrect things I'll ever say, but women of a certain age seemed VERY prone to it. Her struggles became their struggles, her defeats became their defeats. Which is certainly understandable--especially if you keep getting passed over for promotions you deserve and you have a lout for a husband. But when you attach yourself to such a flawed vessel, the resulting dissonance is not a pretty sight. Witness such smart and staunchly liberal people as Digby and Maryscott O'Connor--people who once opposed nearly everything HRC stands for--melt down into paroxysms of finger-pointing rage.

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"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." --Noam Chomsky

elenacarlena's picture

Perhaps one has to be upper crust to be taken in.

What does it matter to me if a woman breaks the glass ceiling and becomes President if she won't raise the minimum wage and strengthen the social safety net so I have a chance to survive? It matters to me not at all.

I also have enough self confidence and confidence in other women and in men that I have zero doubt that we will have a woman President, as soon as we provide a good enough candidate. Had Liz Warren run and Hill bowed out, we would have had a woman Pres in January 2017, I'm sure. I am convinced that there are not that many men out there who, having observed women leaders around the world, really believe anymore that a woman can't run our nation.

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movie buff's picture

The problem came when people insisted on seeing HRC as a stand-in for all women. People seemed to do this with her more than with other female candidates (say, Palin.) I think HRC was stoking these fires deliberately, assuming it would be enough to put her over the top. In reality, Clinton the candidate is a unique case--while some people get all wrapped up in her, many others have always hated her guts. Sure, there's plenty of sexism in there, but we're talking about someone who approves an arms deal to the Saudis immediately after they write a huge check to her shady charity. So yeah, no one could possibly dislike Hillary Clinton for any reason other than sexism.

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"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." --Noam Chomsky

elenacarlena's picture

or Nutty Bachmann or their like. I think you're right that the Hill campaign itself was trying to make her into Everywoman, or maybe better, an extremely competent leader who every woman should follow. Oblivious to the struggles of most women, who wouldn't consider whatever the Clintons left the WH with "broke" and don't think it's OK for your ambitions to drive you to bomb people just because they happen to be brown. .

That they continue to call Stein voters sexist proves their disconnect from reality.

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If you have half the white vote (i.e. all the women) and all the non-white vote, you have 65%. No, no one will get all, but there is 15% to play with and you will get some white males.

She lost because massive numbers of white women voted aginst her and for their families' jobs. Voting for Trump was very risky, but there was no way for their families to get ahead if Hillary won.

It'a a very slim chance against NONE.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Bollox Ref's picture

Perhaps one has to be upper crust to be taken in.

You might be on to something. The only place I saw a large number of Clinton lawn signs here in Minneapolis was in the very upscale Kenwood neighborhood ($Million+ houses, etc.). In my rather more downscale locale, I saw one sign.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

I saw three Trump signs and one Clinton sign, but I didn't feel that was statiscally significant. Perhaps what was significant was that the total number of signs was so small!

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

All my women friends between 50-70 were for Bernie and did not care for Hillary (for policy reasons, they don't hate her) although a few held their noses and voted for her. But with 1 exception we are not anywhere near upper crust. However, at work I see many well-off, well-educated "elite" type "liberal" women in the 50-70 age group who were for Clinton, seemingly because she is a woman more than because of policies. I guess the economic elites just don't see what the problem is with neoliberalism...

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Amanda Matthews's picture

rebuttal to that 'woman of a certain age' thing.

Good grief. We have kids and grandkids and the Clinton creature offered them (and US) not one damn thing.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

riverlover's picture

had she been elected. All the talk about her understanding of 'how government works' and her resume, that no one in the Hillbot section seemed to find suspiciously short-term job-hopping, like resume-polishing. Cult of Clinton. Hey, I am 5 years younger. And had zero interest in that woman as first female president. If she had gotten that label, there would be no more female presidents for some time.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Pluto's Republic's picture

Hillary Clinton was always the one with a cult of personality.

Personally, I am not having an inner emergency that mandates a female President in the White House right this very minute. I am not sure what the immediacy of "now" on this issue is all about. It's going to happen soon anyway. Why force it? The President of the United States is not a job conferred by affirmative action, for godsake.

I would look at Hillary and see Imelda Marcos without the shoes. Plus Libya. I'm not getting over that.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
ThoughtfulVoter's picture

when we DO have our first female president, it will be a person of integrity. We will choose to vote for her not because of her gender, but because of her ethical and political qualifications.

Hillary was not morally qualified for the Presidency--had absolutely nothing to do with her being a woman.

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access to power, money, more power, more status, more money. The world of Washington DC - land of sharp elbows, and more digs than a gopher farm. Me, Me, Me, Mine, I want, I deserve cuz it's My Turn.
The in fighting is worse in the DNC, DLC, Democratic party than anything I've ever seen elsewhere. Don't forget, the Clintons have been planning this for decades, literally - the meme in the late 1980's into 1990's ( when Betsey determined enough of the "bimbo eruptions" had been stifled, so Billy could run for POTUS) was First Bill, Then Hill. Not joking, not snark.
The money and people they accumulated en route stayed with them, unless dropped for disloyalty by the Clintons, and the longer the sycophants stayed, the more each person had invested in making sure the next Clinton won.

Find it amusing to see how President-elect Trump is playing the crowds now drooling for a place at his table! Especially the journalists today. Really a hoot!

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tapu dali's picture

Not only that, but let's eliminate the secret ballot!

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

tourniquet's picture

that's my bad. sorry.

i just thought it was going to be a dem landslide and all. woops.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

gulfgal98's picture

of the Democratic party establishment and those who support it. Two other posters called Wee Mama out on it.

Wee Mama khyber900
Nov 22 · 01:47:13 PM

I think some Bernie voters were sufficiently new to the political process that they didn’t understand that a vote in a primary election is an implicit compact to vote for the primary winner in the general.
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Daddy Bartholomew Wee Mama
Nov 22 · 02:12:39 PM

Oh, I get it. Someone voted for Sanders in the primary, so they are honor-bound to vote for the candidate they disliked more than him. That must be why the Democratic primary winner has always tacked back toward the right after winning the primary, because all those voters are in the bag no matter what.

No wonder the Clinton campaign took all those voters for granted, with that kind of reasoning.
Reply
6

RabbleON Wee Mama
Nov 22 · 02:30:46 PM

I hope this is sarcasm.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Bollox Ref's picture

And it isn't/wasn't Bernie supporters.

What was that poster smoking?

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

elenacarlena's picture

newbie. Never had to sign any kind of compact, never even heard it quietly mentioned - and I was an Obama volunteer in 2008 - that I should vote for the winner of the primary. Obama never took Clinton votes for granted, that I recall.

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Probably the same thing Hillary was when she thought she could turn Texas blue.

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Centaurea's picture

Their sense of entitlement never ends. "Implicit compact"? Suuuure there is. Nea

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Was stunned by the arrogance of that comment!!! Mostly just skimmed the comments - but THAT ONE floored me
How can someone be that arrogant.
Stunning. Especially knowing how the DNC rigged the whole primary system to make sure Bernie lost.

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Doesn't matter if a candidate is essentially a neoliberal/neoconservative socially moderate Republican- if there is a D behind the name, you HAVE TO vote for them.

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I guess we can now add "Defeated" to the list.

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So happy you're posting at C99%.
Love your graphics. Thanks for the smile, well, chortle really! Glee. Delight. We beat her!

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Amanda Matthews's picture

was discussed in my American Government/Civics classes all thru high school and college. I didn't know about that 'compact' thingy that we have going.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

tapu dali's picture

in 1800s Upper Canada (Google).

For more information please see: Reeducation camps.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

It still makes me sad to see user names of people who's diaries I often enjoyed, who I came to disagree with so completely. I remember some thoughtful diaries from Wee Mama on religion and spirituality and, if I remember correctly, some science related diaries. After the primary and the elections, I can't unsee what happened and cannot look at people the same way I once did. It will probably pass... eventually.

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elenacarlena's picture

Sigh.

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tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

snoopydawg's picture

They think that if all the people who voted for Jill or Johnson wouldn't have the chance to vote for them they WOULD HAVE voted for Hillary not Donald.
That too is arrogance.
Did you read this comment? This is the type of comments I see on right wing websites when people want higher wages and people say that if those people had gone to school to get a degree then they would be have the chance to make something of their lives and get better wages.

adigal gchaucer2 Nov 22 · 10:18:33 AM
Here’s what I’ve been saying about the poor “rust belt” people.

Most of these are white people, and white men in particular. Many barely finished high school and the unions and factories assured them of a great job with great pay and benefits. They have never been victims of prejudice and many have never had hard times. So when hard times hit, they have no grit. No courage. No flexibility to change direction, go back to school, get a second job and not whine about it. The world has been their oyster and now that it’s closed, they want their damn oyster back! They don’t want to have to go catch clams.

Compare this to many immigrants who work 18 hours a day. Live in groups to save money. Make sure their kids get a great education. Push their kids, not make excuses for them, like I see in the local high schools where I live. (all white, middle class.) Now look at people of color, many of whom succeed in spite of great odds: less than stellar schools; blatant racism; institutional prejudice. These people, all of them, have learned in their lives that you have to keep plugging, work hard, go without things if you can’t afford them at the time, change direction and get more education if Plans A, B and C fail.

My rural white neighbors?? It’s easier to buy a 6-pack, bitch about the immigrants taking their jobs, refuse to improve themselves. Vote for a DADDY who says that he will take care of them. They are entitled, lazy, unable to adjust with the tide, and utterly lacking in toughness, perseverence and determination. Even in a terrible town, there are ways to improve yourself. They just don’t think that they should have to.
Reply 28 Flag

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

darkmatter's picture

to never go back to Daily freaking Kos. The attitude expressed above by "adigal" is a one-way ticket to permanent minority status in Congress, if that isn't already the case now. The Hillary dead-enders are doubling down on their double down. They are kissing the entire midwest goodbye.

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Carol Joy's picture

Of awareness or reality.

I know in the early Eighties, when the textiles industry started moving out of the USA, all I heard was, "Well, what do you think happens when you are too dumb or lazy to get an education and make something of yourself." I heard this a lot from the computer/tech crowd when I lived in Silicon Valley.

Then in the late 1980's, the automotive industry put its factories in Mexico, and the same mantra was repeated regarding people who had designed, and built our cars.

Finally, computer programming and white collar jobs were outsourced to India and Pakistan, and then the mantra changed. "How could this happen to ME? To ME?" And none of these computer types ever stopped to think that if the nation's workers had stood united, this wouldn't have happened. But we let the Investment/Money crowd pick our job paths apart, one line of work at a time. All the while congratulating ourselves for being a rung or two above those lowest on the ladder.

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Believing in the improbable can make your life a miracle.

TheOtherMaven's picture

And then they came for the automotive workers' jobs...
And then they came for...
And then they came for...
And then they came for my job, and I couldn't believe they would do that to ME. Blum 3

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Hawkfish's picture

See my essay, and a recent comment.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

tapu dali's picture

trailer trash?

That should work fine.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

stepmother for fuck's sake. That same idiocy - if you live in an area where there are no more jobs leave that area! If you didn't get a college degree that's YOUR fault and it is THE reason for income inequality. And for Lord's sake, be POSITIVE, all the time, every day, you are a product of your choices in life, after all!

I am currently estranged again from my stepmother for just this reason - willful ignorance, stunning arrogance, and blatant stupidity. I will no longer beat my own head against that particular wall, there is NO reaching people like this until it happens to them. And my stepmother really ought to know better, she's not wealthy at all, and if not for the luck of living in a completely paid off house given her by her aunt, she'd be toast on her meager SS. She whines about the "other getting something" but has her own tax evasion issues left over from my Dad, another proudly arrogant man who hated paying his taxes, bitched incessantly about people "wanting stuff" and ended up dying on MediCal. Thank God that MediCal was there for them, but does she think about that at all? Nope.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

sojourns's picture

Clinton was either having phony press meetings complete with shills and scripted questions if she appeared anywhere at all. She could not handle anything else from either fear of having a grand mal seizure or actual pointed questions from the press. No doubt her failing health contributed to this pretend ground game.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

boriscleto's picture

And the exit polls weren't wrong. The election was stolen.

The Rethugs knew which states they needed to flip, and they all just happened to be controlled by Rethugs.

More than enough people were purged from the voting rolls, and forced to fill out placebo ballots, to flip the election.

The infotainment branch has been ignoring this issue since 2004...

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

suggesting the same thing about the primary: evidence, or its just a conspiracy theory.

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Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Investigative Reporter Greg Palast: GOP Stole 2016 Election Using Voter Suppression, Purging Ploys: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/investigative_reporter_greg_palast_g...

Was the US Election Stolen …Yet Again? http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-the-us-election-stolen-yet-again/5557930 - Excerpts from this piece below (more info in complete text):

Jonathan Simon, author of CODE RED: Computerized Election Theft and the New American Century and co-founder and executive director of Election Defense Alliance, compiles the exit poll data and final vote data for US elections. According to the exit poll data compiled from 28 states where data was available, nearly every single race where there was a discrepancy between exit poll and final vote data went to Trump.

Especially noteworthy are the following states: Ohio (8.5 percent discrepancy), North Carolina (5.9 percent discrepancy), Pennsylvania (5.6 percent discrepancy), Wisconsin (4.9 percent discrepancy), Florida (2.6 percent discrepancy). In these states, each of which was considered essential for Trump to win the election, the discrepancies between exit poll data and final counts were enough to flip the state to Trump. In other words, had the final results roughly approximated the exit poll data, Clinton would have won each of these states (Ohio was essentially tied). Put simply, the variance in the final counts gave the election to Trump.

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

snoopydawg's picture

match up with the vote tallies either.
Where there were paper ballots Bernie won those states, Hillary won the ones with the voting machines and there was a rumor that a Clinton shell company owned the voting machines.
If Hillary's supporters can think that the republicans stole the election for Trump then why can't they believe us when we think that the election was rigged against Bernie?
There is plenty of evidence that shows it was.
Hey, have they found and counted those millions of missing paper ballots in California yet? Or is anyone even looking for them?
They can't have it one way.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

in NY we do have paper ballots. What they did here was take a page from the Republican rule book and purged the voter rolls in NYC, especially Brooklyn.

Bernie might have had a chance to beat Hillary in NY if that hadn't happened. I believe the only reason she won NY was because of NYC. From what I remember, outside of that area, people voted for Bernie.

I could be wrong but just look at what happened in the general election in the 5 boroughs of NYC. Four of the five went for Clinton but Staten Island (the fifth borough) went for Trump big time.

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Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos

They continue to ignore evidence from the same sources of election fraud in Clinton's favor during the primaries, but now, suddenly, it's an outrage and must be investigated!

The same people and party insiders have had since 2000 (at least) to make even a token attempt to change systems that make large-scale election fraud possible and to push back against disenfranchisement. They haven't. Hasn't hurt them enough, because they've done quite well as the pseudo-opposition party. Now, suddenly, it matters, and we're hearing All The Outrage.

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

sojourns's picture

is more than just a theory, then it is because the rethugs were more afraid of Sanders than they were Clinton. That much I believe to be accurate.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

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