WTF's wrong with us? Nothing. But there's a lot wrong with the Democratic Party (Response to TOP Rec List Diary)
Last night, in a fit of irrational stupidity, I went to TOP and saw a Top of the wreck list diary entitled "WTF is Wrong With You People" (link not provided). You can imagine what it was about. To mash up up two hoary cliches, only mad dogs and Steven D wade in where even fools dare to tread. In any event, here is my response, FWIW:
There’s nothing wrong with me.
Or with anyone who told you that Hillary Clinton was a deeply flawed candidate that risked losing the White House.
But that’s just my opinion.
And no one here that supported Clinton for President gave a shit about it.
So, instead of me explaining what’s wrong with all of you who supported the Democratic Party’s nominee for President, Hillary Clinton, I will direct you to Fredrik deBoer. He wrote this piece that was published by the Washington Post (Full Disclosure: The Post endorsed Hillary Clinton for President and ran numerous, one might even say endless and redundant, articles criticizing Sanders) to explain what’s wrong with the Democrats, their party, and their selection of Hillary Clinton as the nominee (yes, selection — see, e.g., the DNCLeaks, Wikileaks, Podesta emails, ad nauseum) in my stead. As the subtitle to his essay says “We [i.e., the Democrats] Chose the Wrong Candidate.”
Donald Trump’s stunning victory is less surprising when we remember a simple fact: Hillary Clinton is a deeply unpopular politician. She won a hotly contested primary victory against a uniquely popular candidate, Sen. Bernie Sanders. In her place, could he have beaten Trump?
That Clinton has unusually high unfavorables has been true for decades. Indeed, it has been a steady fact of her political life. She has annually ranked among the least-liked politicians on the national stage since she was the first lady. In recent years, her low favorability rating was matched only by that of her opponent, animated hate Muppet Donald Trump. In contrast, Sanders enjoys very high popularity, ranking as the most popular senator for two years in a row. [...]
Clinton’s inability to ever capture the approval of most Americans hurt her in a number of ways. Consider her performance in predominantly black, working-class counties in Michigan. These are precisely the kinds of areas that she was supposed to count on in the Rust Belt, the “blue wall” that would supposedly secure her victory even if she lost out in Florida and North Carolina. [...]
[T]urnout matters in a close election, and here she suffered significantly compared with President Obama in both 2008 and 2012. In Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties in Michigan, the heart of Detroit’s black voting bloc, Clinton won 55 percent of the vote — compared with 69 percent for Obama in 2012. Meanwhile, it was in Michigan that Sanders won his most shocking primary victory, probably through the same forces that hurt Clinton on Election Day: Her agenda did not seem to offer much hope to those hurt by deindustrialization and outsourcing. We can only guess how much better he might have performed there, or in Ohio and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin (which he also won in a surprising primary upset) had he been the nominee. But there is little doubt now that his success in the Rust Belt was a canary in the coal mine for the Clinton campaign, a now-obvious sign that she was in trouble. [...]
Even beyond his advantages in popularity, Sanders would have offered the Democrats advantages in the kind of race he could have run. The Clinton campaign was an incredibly smooth operation in a period of immense public distrust for smooth operators. Clinton’s campaign was defined by its slick Internet presentation and its celebrity endorsements. But neither of these things probably helped her play in the most essential parts of the country, where impeccable web design and Hollywood glamor don’t go as far. Her Twitter account was often masterful, pulling in likes and retweets by the hundreds of thousands — but it turns out retweets aren’t votes.[...]
By the end of the evening, Clinton’s biggest problem was clear: She needed to win suburban white voters in the Rust Belt, and she could not. Younger voters might not realize that these areas were once Democratic strongholds, thanks to high union rates and traditional support for the party among those working in manufacturing. But years of assaults on union rights by Republicans — often barely opposed by Democratic lawmakers who have seemingly lost interest in organized labor — and severe contractions in manufacturing as an employment base have turned that strength into a weakness. Democrats must now ask themselves: Who would have been a better representative for the party in that region? The millionaire from New York with an entourage of celebrities and the backing of the Democratic money machine? Or a small-city New Deal granddad from Vermont who has spent his political life working with unions and appealing to economic justice and populism?
Well, I don’t want to violate the fair use rules, so I will repeat teacherken’s mantra that you should read the entire article. It will be well worth your time.
Addendum: I understand that many of you do not wish to hear this message. You find it grating and irritating and insulting. I understand that because this site, and many, many people here did far worse than that to Sanders’ supporters, like me, after it was clear she would be the nominee, Indeed, even well before that was clear, both before, but especially after Kos’ Ides of March decree.
For myself, I take no delight in Trump’s victory. This is not a game for me. For many like me, who have known real economic and other suffering (for me, my ill health, loss of my livelihood, etc ), and for all those who have suffered far more than I, decimated by the actions of the infamous “New Democrats” exemplified by Bill and Hillary Clinton, and for those who lost jobs and homes and futures and health and hope because the Democratic party abandoned them, the unions and the core base of its supporters since the days of the New Deal in order to cater to the whims of Wall Street con men and mega-corporations, which the Democratic Party, in league with their “partners in crime” among the Republicans, helped create with their “bipartisan” actions to promote a corporate agenda at odds with the needs of “we the people,” this is very personal.
Bernie Sanders offered the first true progressive vision for our country by a candidate for President in my lifetime since LBJ. The first shining light in decades to pierce the fog of despair so many of us experienced every day of our lives. But none of you who supported Hillary Clinton and the status quo establishment of “your party” wanted him. You despised him and those of us who advocated for his candidacy. And the end result is a victory by a despicable man, Donald Trump. That is the true loss that all of us must bear because the Democratic Party sold us out for pennies on the dime, for free dinners and junkets, and — to put a single phrase on it — filthy, dirty, lifeless money.
I only hope that after all the anger and scapegoating and blame-shifting and whatever the else is bothering you people is over, you will take a long hard look at what the Democratic Party stands for and what it represents rather than denying the truth. I hope you come to recognize that deep and fundamental change is necessary if we have any hope of making it a vehicle again to salvage our nation from the profound challenges we will face going forward and from the “economic royalists” that control our government, and make the decisions on so many issues that effect the quality of our lives: climate change, racism, sexism, political divisiveness, poverty, wars without end, and on and on and on. That is my prayer. The Democrats have in their ranks new leaders willing to step up and advance the policies and values so desperately needed in this time of tribulation. But will you give them that chance, or will you return to the wrong-headed and evil — yes, evil is the right word for it — policies and agenda of The Powers That Be who will fight to further tighten their their control of the party for their own selfish and greedy desires no matter who it harms?
I sure hope so.
Comments
I am sorry Steven, they have repeated the same mantra
for many decades now, until they clean house from top to bottom I couldn't care less about the Democratic Party.
To my mind this was the missed election, they missed the opportunity to actually work for the American people. They failed abjectly.
They lost against the most vile candidate in living memory. Sure there will be a lot of navel gazing and screaming, but the Party itself wont change, they will have the same bloody list of excuses and slander.
Just consider how unanimous
Just consider how unanimous Clinton's support was from the party during the primary. There is no house to clean there is only the filth left at this point. Hang em all and start over.
The diary to which Steven is responding...
... is the closing of the door to open minds over there. They allowed some people like us to tell them the truth for a couple of days, and now they're tired of it and don't want to hear it anymore. They have no intention of listening or considering what they're being told.
Good. I hope the Democratic Party follows their lead and finally dies. Things will just keep getting worse as long as our only choice is the lesser of two evils. Let one evil die, and then we can confront the other one.
Please help support caucus99percent!
I have watched, commented to Markos that he had
missed the boat, got a half-arsed reply as if he didn't understand.
Read a few diatribes and watched as the gates close.
It takes integrity to admit they're wrong.
And they have no integrity, no moral courage, all they have is finger-pointing, and the fingers of those pathetic people are always pointed at progressives. We're always to blame for the electoral fiascoes of the "Democratic Party."
Or as our laureate wrote
"Gentlemen, he said
I don’t need your organization, I’ve shined your shoes
I’ve moved your mountains and marked your cards
But Eden is burning, either brace yourself for elimination
Or else your hearts must have the courage
for the changing of the guards"
© 1978 by Special Rider Music
Why we don't bother with them --
The people who remain at Daily Kos are in fact the product of Markos Moulitsas' having turned Daily Kos into an echo chamber. So the only person worth your time over there is Markos himself. Daily Kos is a private space.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
One thing to consider is that not everybody there is...
ExpatGirl or DEO or Turkana or BBB or Armando or Inland. In one of several of ExpatGirl's CT diaries yesterday, inclusiveheart had this rather heartbreaking comment:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/10/1596053/-WTF-Is-Wrong-With-Yo...
Wow! What a moving statement!
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I'm sure someone here "knows" inclusiveheart.
A personal invitation might be in order.
C99 has been such a positive thing for so many of us.
I agree
but I'm banned...
yes, inclusiveheart reflects the status over their
Seems the ringleaders over there have decided that they hate white leftists because the lost election is all their fault.
Yes stunning lack of self reflection. And stupid to reject natural allies in a time like this. Not that the DKos Identity posse ever demonstrated insight....
I wonder if this attitude is DKos unique ? Or is this the meme going around in POC circles?
The POC elites are well represented at TOP.
Other POC, not so much.
And the POC elites that dominate TOP could give a shit about my POC neighbors here in Cleveland, much less working class whites.
oh yeah, especially "elitist" Cornel West, about
whom a certain famous frontpage POC writer said, that he had "never worked in the fringes". Apparently Dr. West was too elitist. Strange that he didn't find a home in the homeland of elitist POC Democrats, called TOP.
It's just fucked up.
https://www.euronews.com/live
They have moved beyond irony.
Up is down, first is last. No twist of the truth is too bold if in service of Our Benevolent Masters.
They banned a few PoC I really liked even though we
rarely agreed at least we had insult free fights, Adept2u, Robinswing and a few others. BBB was always a twerp.
When we first formed the Anti-Capitalist Meetup,
there was a young WOC who was one of our key members. At first, it was like an offensive line trying to protect the quarterback, i.e. even having a diary meetup like that drew the predictable hornets. She was a tough and witty comrade in those trenches. But DEO didn't like it. She was consorting with what DEO considered to be the enemy. After taking a pounding in the weekly DEO diary, she began to pull away, then she quit posting on the site entirely.
" I won't ... even entertain going third party."
Why not ?
stein - baraka
2020
Thanks GS. The hypocrisy of POC at TOP has been gnawing at me.
for a long time.
You're dead on right about the lukewarm reception of the many privileged elite POC at TOP. It was particularly Orwellian to me. I was out in the streets of NYC participating in a handful of actions of #BLM actions, from die-ins in Times Sq to massive marches to activist discussion gatherings.
During the whole #BLM uprising it seemed to me folks there were at best measured in their support. First off it's an older, much more comfortable (read:soft) crowd who frankly would qualify more as the "white moderates" MLK blasted in his letter from Birmingham Jail as the real impediment to change. The absence of fierce support at DK was different than the bait and switch opposition of the Neoliberals of MLK's day, but it adds up to the same. Movements stumble or lose momentum when should-be allies hesitate (good thing #BLM didn't). I don't know how much King Kos's clueless distaste for protest was also the driver of the tenor of that place in this regard, but it was all too apparent to me coming home from these amazing, impassioned actions I was witnessing and part of, only to pull up DK to wonder where all these "progressives" were.
I'll relay one particularly telling moment to illustrate (there are more than a few). I had just gotten back from the #MillionsMarchNYC and was so moved by the day's event. First off, it had been planned and executed all within one week, following the non-indictment of Eric Garner's murderer. 30,000 of the most diverse gathered at Washington Sq in the cold of December to march up and through midtown, ending with various wildcat marches shutting down bridges and roadways. It was an incredibly moving day. A strong distinct mood of intolerance for injustice coursed through the crowd and all over the city. Very uplifting to feel the righteous power of indignation of so many who came out on such short notice. The young black women and men who organized it pulled off an astonishing feat.
I looked at the Rec list askance. Nothing on what just occurred on the streets of NYC? As tired and annoyed as I was I wrote something up, basically using all the great people-powered citizen photo journalism on Twitter and it got on the Rec list. Otherwise I feared that, what I was essentially seeing as the logical outgrowth of and symbiotic relationship to the Occupy Wall St movement was getting short shrift (just like Occupy did). And I wasn't about to say quiet on that. It was already crystal clear in my mind: the salvation of the Democratic Party was #BLM and #OWS.
Point is that this happened over and over there. The Mizzou football team story ranks as another truly amazing development in the annals of the power of solidarity protest. Hardly anything there again. The Occupy-style encampments that sprung up on the campus? Not interested.
For such a place that likes to think of itself as the righteous protectors of minority voting rights and against racism there was and is a distinct and unignorable dearth of young black voice and disconnect with the well-off, self-righteous elders at TOP. Another pronounced time was when Deray took a poll of his followers on Twitter of which Dem candidate they preferred. The results of Sanders getting 80-something % wasn't taken seriously by all the you-don't-understand-Hillary-is-a-friend-to-black-community throng.
I should write an essay on this. Just don't see how I'lll get the necessary time in the next few days to do it right. I've got the usual infant duties going on, which I'm trying to balance with an array of errands to do and tidying up the apartment in expectation of hosting a group of activist friends for a Dem Party post-mortem salon on Sunday.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
I'm just going to speculate here.
First, you're absolutely right about Kos's hostility to any kind of protest or direct action. That was clear from his very first posts.
I think there is another factor as well. Not long after I arrived here, I got involved in an activist group that was very small and mostly young. Through that, I went as a delegate of sorts to a monthly meeting composed mostly of local labor and Dems. I got to announce our annual Socialist/Anarchist picnic to much chuckling. Someone at that meeting invited me to a CPUSA meeting and he provided an address. My son and I attended the meeting at a large house in a very nice neighborhood. In my 60s, I was the second youngest there. After listening for 20 minutes to an Obama worship session, I voiced a few criticisms of the President's policies. This very polite session of old folks who had known each other for years suddenly began uttering words like dupe, fascist, racist. It was pretty extraordinary. At the end of the meeting--and we stuck it out until the end--the fellow who invited me semi-apologized and handed me a pamphlet so I could study up on CPUSA doctrine. I checked it out and found that current doctrine was similar to the Popular Front with the Democratic Party as the vehicle for revolution.
As I saw DEO's diaries and especially her comments in Tuesday's Child, etc., she sounded more and more to me like CPUSA. Very doctrinaire. Very democratic centralism. Very disciplinarian.
All energy is to be poured into the Democratic Party. It's fate is our fate. There is no room for criticism of the party.
Please understand this isn't Red-baiting. I'm an anarchist. But the CPUSA experience was pretty creepy. Organizations, whether political or religious, that don't have room for criticism always bother me.
That's how I see it.
Well if they step too far out of line --
they'll be booted. And the others will lose interest in a blog that has nothing to do with why they got into politics in the first place.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
A severe lack of introspection
The Democratic party has exhibited a severe lack of introspection despite continuing losses both at the state levels and nationally. Winning the Presidency with Obama has been the only real "success" of the Democratic party in the last decade. The party has squandered majorities in both the House and Senate and suffered humiliating losses in 2010 and blood bath loss in 2014. The 2014 humiliation should have been the final wake up call for the party leaders, but they were too addicted to easy FIRE money to change.
Instead the Democratic party insisted on shoving the most corrupt and unlikable candidate they could possibly support down the throats of the American people while ignoring the real needs of the people. Hillary Clinton and her running mate Tim Kaine are the poster children for everything that was wrong with the Democratic party. And the party honchos continue to deny that they are the problem. Instead they blame the voters just as Hillary Clinton herself blamed Bernie's voters while offering nothing to make those voters want to support her.
The arrogance and hubris of both the Clintons and the Democratic party have rendered them both irrelevant to a large swath of American voters who felt betrayed by previous Democratic administrations of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. I am now reading that Hillary blames Obama for her defeat because he did not do enough to help her. Obama shares in the blame, but not for the reasons Clinton believes. Obama shares the blame because he continued the betrayal of the American voters.
The last eight years opened the eyes of the American people that the Democrats did not care about their real problems. Once the people's eyes have been opened, it is very difficult to blindly support those who betrayed them.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Hell there is even some chatter about Chelsea Clinton
They haven't got a god-damned clue.
Pardon the expletive, but:
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Nope.
I've seen shit about Chelsea Clinton/Michele Obama 2020
They just don't understand. No more Obama. No more Clinton.
I'm tired of the dynasty dementia from the dems.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Bratty Chelsea and "shocked to her core" Michelle Obama
Both are lightweights, especially millionaire Chelsea, whose bestest job ever has been to "work" at mommy and daddy's money-laundering scam (soon to be closed down, one would hope). Michelle was given a plum job as VP of the University of Chicago Medical Center at $317,000 a year after hubbie Obama was elected to the House Of Representatives. Once there, Michelle came up with a plan to dump low-income patients at community hospitals, leaving U. Of Chicago beds open for wealthy patients. Then Obama became president at lightning speed and it was off to the White House and her First Lady vegetable garden, planted by servants.
Many of these failing-ever-upward neoliberal Dems' names are going to be floated around by clueless DNC types. Ignore them. Either burn it down or clean house, top to bottom.
Well stated, gg!
If one cannot look in the mirror and see the flaws, corrective action cannot be taken. This is what the dem party is up against. TPTB in the party are clinging to their status, to their money, to the blind greed that they would rather fall than give any of it up. Their day of reckoning has arrived, yet they avoid the mirror yet again.They would rather be destroyed than change.
They are quickly accomplishing that goal.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
That's exactly it. They'll milk the cash cow to death.
Obama shares in the blame at least in his handling of the DNC
He got rid of Howard Dean; killed the 50 state strategy; put Tim Kaine in charge; then put Clintonista Odious Debbie in charge. What the hell did he expect??
The smug arrogance of Rahm Emmanuel epitomizes all of them.
Under his Admin. Dems have lost more offices than any other POTUS I believe and hold less offices nationwide than since the 1920's.
The blame rests with Obama. As he took office he had working
majorities in both Houses of Congress and he failed - there's no other word - to attempt to deliver on his campaign promises.
The Democrats have lost more seats at all levels under Obama than under any other Democratic president that I am aware of.
(No one forced Obama to appoint Rahm as his chief of staff.)
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Wow...
Do you have a link for the Clintonistas blaming the Obamas? Maybe they will destroy each other.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
I read it somewhere
and found this link. I am not sure how reliable the source is, but it sounds like free floating blame going on.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Do you
Have any links to the articles about this being obama's fault?
When in power Democrats are somehow weak and must
compromise with Republicans to broker flawed deals. And when out of power Democrats are powerless and must are to go along with the most harmful legislation and political appointees or be labeled traitors.
While delusional Democrats have been predicting the demise of the GOP, they were actually seeing their own demise in their political magic mirror--a reflection rather then a prognostication. And this may be how the Democratic Party is meant to function, as the secondary party keeping up the illusion of a democracy rather than the plutocracy/oligarchy that we really live under.
So I think the "Democratic" Party is functioning just as intended, as the weaker of the two arms of the duopoly, meant to keep us distracted while our corporate overlords rob us blind and grind us further into the dust.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
A Pyrrhic Victory For Me
It took a long time for me to realize a goal I'd set for myself in 1980. People now see the Democratic Party for what it is and not what is was under FDR.
I saw what the vultures did to Inland Steel retirees in Chicago in 1978, and the Democrats did nothing. Chicago -a strong union town and bastion of the Democratic Party- was the opening salvo fired by the corporatists against the workers of the United States. The Silence was deafening, as thousands of Inland Steel retirees quickly sank into poverty, losing homes they lived in throughout their working years. And the Democrats did nothing.
Jimmy Carter soon had the Iranian Hostage Crisis to occupy his time, and he sadly hid out in the Rose Garden rather than deal with any of the problems his terrible advisers had talked him into. The economy sucked (remember the Misery Index?), predatory investors were taking everything they could get out of companies through leveraged buyouts, Carter looked and acted powerless in the face of the Iranian Revolution, and many people like me gave up on him and the Democrats.
Unlike the majority of those who quit the Democrats, I did not fall for the lies of Ronald Reagan. I remembered his un-Constitutional proposal to Gerald Ford to establish a "co-presidency" where Reagan would have held the bulk of the power. I could not trust such a man with the Oval Office, a concern of mine which Reagan sadly confirmed after defeating Carter. There had to be a better option. So when John Anderson ran, I knew he'd lose, but with enough votes, he could implant in voters the idea of supporting someone other than a Democrat or a Republican - and maybe winning.
Maybe now that idea is finally taking root. Having had two horrible candidates this election was bad enough, but having the worse of the two (as far as domestic issues will be affected) win, and having to endure the havoc he will wreak on our nation, possibly will impress upon enough people that there has to be a better way than this.
[As for Hillary winning, glowing radioactive ash can't do much.]
I won't claim to be a leader in this movement, which could have culminated in two fringe parties qualifying for matching funds for the next election. All I did was talk up the idea whenever an opportunity arose. But assuming the Trump doesn't finish converting this nation into the Fourth Reich, and if the world stops corporatism in ways we did not, there could be hope. Maybe I'll live long enough to see it happen.
But happen it must, or humanity dies.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Regarding Inland Steel: Compare the Democrats' actions to
the looting of the Studebaker pension fund to the non-action at Inland. There's a big difference in just a few years.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
There has to be a better way than this.
I hope you're right, but fear that most aren't there, nor ever will be, because they suffer from the same brain disease manifested in the HRC campaign: It's not us, it's you.
Just yesterday, a (possibly now former, I haven't decided yet) FRIEND said this to me on FB: "Fuck Jill Stein, fuck Gary Johnson, and fuck everyone who voted for either of them."
Needless to say, it got a lot of "likes."
Famous old story...
Boss we repackaged the dog food, have come out with some great new ad copy and we're using the best market researchers we have to sell this product, it should work great. A week later, we don't know what's wrong Boss, the dogs still won't eat the dog food. The Democratic Party thinks it's the package, it's not, it's what's inside the package and they don't even look in the box.
Since 1994, the Democratic Party has not had control of both houses of Congress except from 2006 to 2010. The Majority of Statehouses and Governorships have been controlled by Republicans since 1996. Since 1960 there have been five Democratic Presidents, that have served a total of 28 years out of 56, and Kennedy was assassinated, Johnson was driven from office and Clinton was impeached by the House and only saved by Democrats in the Senate. We are not winning, and "inter-sectional" politics based on the "demographics," aren't working, this is a pipe dream.
Something must change, either the Democratic Party leadership must go, or the rank and file must march out and form a new Party. The only alternative to this is continuing marginalization and failure.
this!
and judging from my limited skim reading at TOP and my FB feed the past day or two, it looks like its gonna be the latter. Im seeing way too many people who are just digging in their heels while plugging their ears and falling for the utterly ridiculous, totally obvious scam AGAIN.
They're stuck in their BUT TRUMP! mentality, they got it on some kind of permanent loop replay.
They do not freaking get it!! sigh
I mean, "lets bring back Howard Dean (the lobbyist) for DNC Chair"? SERIOUSLY??!? Zero self-reflection.
The prefer being losers, its more comfortable & familiar and they got that Victim thing down. They do not want success. It would require way too much of them.
I had been reading each day
I had been reading each day leading up to the election, the trickle of emails released by Wikileaks. I also read that we should not consider the "deep state" as a monolithic block in support of the Clinton war mongering, neoliberal policies and world hegemony. I read that there was dissent and not all wanted to run with her over the cliff to war with Russia, which seemed to be where we were heading. Surely the daily revelatory emails released by Wikileaks exposed damning evidence of insidious corruption and complicity but the news required knowledge or understandings of context, history or government to fully appreciate. When, in the last two or three days before the election, I saw on Yahoo, emails showed that Chelsea's wedding had been paid for by Clinton Foundation funds, I wondered if what I had read about elements of the "deep state" have strong reservations about Hillary might be right. Corruption on the level of stealing money meant for charity to pay for your daughter's wedding is something everyone can understand. On that it received play on Yahoo, made me think that the level of theater we are watching might be more complex and scripted than even we appreciate. Either way, I think we need to follow our hearts and passions, to cultivate compassion and, then, bridges to the disenfranchised many who used their vote for Trump as a strong message of rejection of neoliberal destruction.
bingo
"made me think that the level of theater we are watching might be more complex and scripted than even we appreciate."
follow our hearts and cultivate compassion
well said
bygorry
Are you willing to share who they are?
https://www.euronews.com/live
Nina Turner
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
She's pro charter school
Solidarity forever
Pretty good discussion Over There, Steven.
Most seem to be letting the critics speak up Over There at last, if arguing vociferously against us. But arguing issues is what it should be about.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Agreed.
DailyKos has been MY community for years. I think we need to fight for it in the same way we need to fight for our country. Also, it is interesting to see that Bernie seems to be becoming the de facto leader of the Dem party.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Who holds the gates?
Unless your name is Kos , I suspect you're mistaken. If GOS were run by an enlightened, benevolent despot there might be an independent community but as it is what goes on there is only by the sufferance of a very petty, benighted person.
Who holds the gates?
Unless your name is Kos , I suspect you're mistaken. If GOS were run by an enlightened, benevolent despot there might be an independent community but as it is what goes on there is only by the sufferance of a very petty, benighted person.
It seems like alot of people on C99 really want to change
the democratic party. All this complaining about how bad it has been, all the things it's done wrong. all the finger pointing and blaming, is kind of like someone who got dumped by a girl or boy friend and really wants them back but also wants some revenge to go along with it.
Yes, I know for me I feel like I'm
on just a bit of an emotional rollercoaster. I woke up very early this morning and the anger began. At Obama, at Bill, at Reagan, at every single consistently Repuke voter over the last 50 years, at a DNC who willfully ignored the candidate right up in their damned faces who would have won. Then skimming the headlines on NYT, I no longer subscribe but use it as a kind of gage of the day's propaganda, seeing that Rump is considering Jamie Fucking Dimon for Treasury, hearing how Paul Lyin' Ryan is ready to gut Medicare, and knowing in my gut that that damned TPP passes, that Rump doesn't "believe" in climate change, that the DAPL will most likely get built before it can be stopped, I'm just sick.
I do not in any way regret voting the way I voted - the Democrats own this, I do not. WE DO NOT. But I'm sickened and scared for what the next 4 years and more brings. So yes, I want revenge. I've always had a vindictive streak. I want to scream at my Repugnant stepmother and all those who voted this shit in with their selfishness, willful fucking ignorance, heads shoved up the Faux and Rush every single day. It's a damned good thing my Tea Bag mother is gone, I know how I'd be around her today and it wouldn't be pretty.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
From today's LTE in NYTimes
HRC was a deeply flawed candidate. Many months ago, February I think I left a comment (my last or next to last) at TOP about TPTB shoving her down our throats. I left soon after.
The powers that be and their internet lackeys still don't get it.
Don't believe everything you think.
Priceless quote!
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I saw this too
It was the only one worth repeating aloud at the breakfast table.
Most of the letters they publish are from the same kinds of people (or in the case of Felicia Nimue Ackerman, the exact same person) and just add to the echo, but occasionally an interesting one slips through.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Steve...
one of the most rabid commenters in that diary is also a member here. I had to say hello to her, to let her know that I know.
Sorry I didn't tip or rec your diary, I refuse to spend much time there. But I did see your diary and perused the comments and saw one of our own members on the attack and I wanted to help out with that. It did seem to stop that line of attack, on not only yourself but c99p as well.
Hey I don;t want recs over there
It was, as I said a futile and stupid idea to post it. Thanks for not reccing actually. No worries.
Steve
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
I saw that
Thank you for calling her out.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
in response to AL, being dumped by someone you thought loved you
is usually an "affair" you never forget. Unfortunately people seem to overlook that little fact. The bitterness and anger is lingering around and pops up, whenever something goes wrong in their lives. War related PTSD is often misunderstood and neglects that aspect, It's a catalyst and enhancer for the symptoms that people categorize as PTSD in Veterans, imo. I guess. Too tired of the shit to be able to think and comment coherently.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I suppose if people have been life long democrats,
many around here seem to have been. I've never been a democrat and never felt any affiliation with that party or any political party. It's a weird thing to me and I think party politics is dangerous as we're seeing now. A lot of people have one foot in and onefoot out and don't know what to do about it. Some of the "if they had only done this, like if they'd only ran Bernie in the general instead of Clinton, makes me think they still want the democratic party to revive.
If Bernie had been the candidate and had beat Trump, we'd be having a different conversation about the Dem party. So is it really about winning and losing?
The duopoly needs to be taken down.
agree with your last sentence
to me taking down the duopoly had meant since I understood the consequences of the electoral college laws in 2004 that you have to have to change parts of your laws. As I am no lawyer I was always not taken seriously on TOP. So what? You still have the duopoly. You still have Democrats and Republicans opposing to change it, because it goes against their own interests in winning in any campaign, not having the electoral college. I remember the attempt of Lawrence Lessig to create a movement to change it. He was pitied and mocked and ridiculed for his attempt. Why? At least he tried to be honest.
It's just tiring and disappointing to see that no systematic changes in your laws that relate to your electoral process can be implemented.
Now you have to live with your mess. If it wouldn't hurt so many people in the world, I could possibly stay calm. But it's all too damn dangerous.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Well, I started out firmly non-partisan
but after the Tea Party felt I had to support Democrats. I didn't realize how ConservaDem they were then, of course, but I've always hated the dogma aspect of party. I grew up in a rabidly Republican household but was always cynical and "too sensitive" as my mother put it. Always just leaned more Liberal as I could never stand the smugness of the Repukes. And I didn't yet see it in the Dems.
I'm glad Hillary did not win. It is just today that the ugly reality of a fully Repugnant government set in. It didn't need to be this way, and while Bernie alone could not have magically made things better, he would not have poisoned the Democrats down ballot and perhaps been able to help get a few good honest ones into office. Against Repugnants in the next 4 years I don't hold out much hope for the Dems. And even if I did, I'm not sure I could support any one of them anymore. And the damage these Repugnant idiots will do scares hell out of me. I need a day or two to get over that I think. That and some fine legal substance up here in WA.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
My own torn emotions are not so much loyalty to the party,
as wondering what's most efficient. it seems that where we already have an organization and regular donors and political experience and so on, turning them to the cause of good should be relatively easy.
Otherwise, we not only have to build a party from the ground up with people who don't know how to run a successful party. We also will have a period of three parties in the races, which could weaken the leftish. If we plan to be the new left party, how do we get the Dems to bow out? Or get the leftish Dems to come to us and the rest to merge with the Repugs so we have two new parties?
I have no answers, just thinking here. But a bit glad to see the Dems feeling like they want Bernie now because I really don't know the most effective way to proceed from here.
Anyway, I have been a Dem for decades, but only because I have always lived in closed states, so I wanted to vote in the primaries. I still vote for the best candidates regardless of their party affiliation.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Ah, Steven
Thank you for that remarkable, cogent, and deeply felt essay. I haven't logged in at that godforsaken website in over half a year now, and I don't miss it at all. As the user names of some of the nastier regulars there have popped up in the comments above I found myself laughing (well, more like mordantly chuckling) in remembrance. They were just so petty. I recalled for a second one of the most stomach-turning sub-subgenres I will likely ever read, the Bernie-to-Hillary conversion narratives that were so popular there for a while. Remember those? Lord. So much intellectual ugliness.
Kos's opportunistic and phony call for Sanders to head the DNC tells me he's desperate to get out of the corner he and his minions painted themselves into. But they went "all in."
We are entering uncharted waters now. My one small hope is that along with the Clintons, Clintonism itself will get tossed in the clearance bin. But we'll see. The neoliberals still control the media. They will hide their own massive failure by ginning up outrage and creating another chapter of Us v. Them. The "house cleaning" that has long been promised at the DNC never happens beyond slapping a new coat of paint on a crumbling building. At the very least, a significant number of people are on to the con. And it was places like C99 and Way of the Bern that helped expose that con long enough for it to stick.
Hope you're doing well, healthwise, Steven. Your work here has been invaluable.
Kos forgot the main rule. You never go full retard...
I am sure this clip (and the subject matter) may be a bit off for some people but this has to be one of my favorite scenes in the movie and sums up Kos and the Clintonites.
They didn't just jump the shark, they went full retard.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q]
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Yeah, I spent some time Wed and Thurs
reading over there too. I was taken in at first by the "tail between the legs" invitation to progressives to "come on home united we stand", but that sentiment didn't last long before the HRC-at-any-cost bastion again took over the conversation.
If the true-HRC-supporters at TOP hold their breath long enough, the rest of the nation can still turn blue, they seem to be so sure of it !
~annominous
For a while the Rec List was
For a while the Rec List was the only good thing TOP had anymore -- now the only thing worth reading is probably Meteor Blades's stuff.
Sad to say I have written him off
I invited him to participated here and asked him why he was still at TOP and he said he;d get back to me. Never happened.
Not angry, just disappointed. I'm sure he has his reasons, but he never bothered to explain them to me.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Well,
sometimes people have to pay the bills doing things they rather not do. I am keeping an open mind in that regard.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I love Bernie Sanders, still.
When he endorsed Hillary, I immediately looked for another party to support-- and I found it-- the Green Party. I took his advice and didn't listen to him.
Bernie changed the nations' conversation. I would go so far as to say that Trump copied him.
I'm not mad at Bernie for getting behind Hillary (for as little as he did), because he changed the NATIONAL CONVERSATION, on both sides.
Not true that all the Kossians have totally drunk the koolaid
Longtime Clinton partisan Trix responded to Bernie's call for greater focus on grassroots organizing with a surprisingly thoughtful and introspective tweet:
inactive account
Ahh Trix, only 2nd to possibly BBB for level of obnoxious
cluelessness steeped in a delightful marinade of sanctimonious self righteousness, arrogance, condescension and douchebaggery.
That place has a lot of turds floating in it's pool.
It's almost like they are deliberately TRYING to cause disunity and fragmentation of the party.
Who knows, maybe they are.
If that is the case then I guess I take back every mean thought I have had about the usual offenders...
On second thought, I am gonna go back to my default position, "Fuck the fucking fuckers and the fucks that enable them."
(You gotta love a word that can be a noun, verb and adjective all in the same sentence. )
Isn't English such a wonderful language?
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Yep. It's a feature not a bug. The losing party holds its
poor widdle head in bewilderment wondering what could have destroyed their wonderful wickedness while the winners take a victory lap. Eight years later they switch places, lather, rinse and repeat. It's all bullshit meant to distract us from the ongoing wealth extraction by the 1%.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
They must be spies for Russia
It's the only rational explanation.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Your first sentence made me laugh
Such an eloquent and completely spot-on description! If those guys aren't on the RNC payroll, they should be.
inactive account
Ah... feeling that feeling...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCQGQ5qBQTA]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Game over for the climate?
That's what climate scientists say about Trump and his denial of climate change. The Green Party could develop into our only hope within the next 4 years.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I'm sorry...`
This is not going to be popular here. But the Green Party is NOT the answer. Jill Stein endorsed Trump just before the election. I am not naive enough to believe Hillary would have done much about Global Warming, but at least should would not ACTIVELY TRY TO KILL ALL PROGRESS. Trump will do that. Unless the Green Party puts some real FDR economic populism in its platform and really understands how to get us off of fossil fuels, they are nothing more than a bunch of bomb-throwers.
May there is no home for me anywhere.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Jill Stein endorsed Trump?
I call BS on that. The choice is between having a habitable planet and not having a habitable planet. Triangulation won't solve crap. We got to go all in and the Green Party, which has been all about the planet since it's inception, is an obvious party for that.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Clinton Lie.
http://www.snopes.com/jill-stein-endorsed-donald-trump/
But everybody not drinking Hillary's Kool-Aid knew that already.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Looked it and I was wrong...
I admit that and apologize for it. But please do not accuse me of 'Drinking the Hilary Koolaid'.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Apology accepted, and extended.
Sorry, that one REALLY pissed me off when it was making the rounds, so I apologize that I didn't check who posted it.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Peace.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
I hate to break it to you
But its been game over for the climate for some time now. All we can do is attempt to remedial action to save as much as we can. Clinton wasn't going to do anything to save the climate either. And what Obama did was do incremental crap around the margins that had no serious effect on stopping climate change or reducing its consequences. There is, I believe, a secret bipartisan agreement to make it seem there is a difference of opinion on policy in order to keep their respective base supporters who care one way or the other about it voting for them.
In short, it's a charade by the duopoly.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Then what are we talking about here?
Revolution? Anarchy? We all find a plot of land in Colorado and hunker down? If the boat has sailed on Global Warming (and I'm not questioning it hasn't) then maybe we should stop talking politics and start talking about how we can survive as a species.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
This one is your best Steven. Bravo.
You covered it all and I just wanted to say Thank You.
The eternal battle seems to be who's narrative will be the one the masses take up and run with and allow to shape their worldview.
Our enemies have a lot of money to influence that, which they're doing with the continued fear-mongering that lost them the election and the same finger-pointing everywhere but in the mirror and the eerie lack of self-reflection which has followed each successive wipe out election their myopia and hubris caused.
We only have the Truth. Keep telling it 99%ers...
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Thanks Mark
Written after three beers last night lol.
Thus the lack of judgment in wrtiing and posting it there.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Thank you for posting this
You know, I was elated election night with Hilary's defeat, but I knew the hang-over would be rough when I had to consider the winner. Well the high lasted two days and it was great!
So where are we? I think Trump might be better than W who destabilized the Middle East and bankrupted the US and Mass Murdered in the process. But we'll see. Now I'm more afraid of Trump's supporters than him - the proverbial brown-shirts. I don't like leaving the city where I live to venture to the woodlands now.
Great 3 beer rant! Just what I think. Thanks.
Those dopes have no idea what
Those dopes have no idea what happened. They are pointing fingers at all sorts of people, mainly Bernie supporters.