I, for one, have healed enough that I can start "working" with both Cenk and Bernie again. I won't necessarily see them in the same way I did before, but I think we're on the same sides and, to the extent it's possible to take over the Democratic Party, I'm willing to try to help. I think that window of opportunity is very brief, however, so I won't commit to spending the next four years in futility.
reformulate my opinions based on what happens now. If Bernie, Warren and sherrod Brown take on the Dems and GOP, I'm listening. If Trump really governs seperate from the GOP, I'm ready for that too. Not counting on it but willing to give him a chance to form new alliances within. I think he was shocked and awed that he won. I heard, haven't verified, that he is taking no salary and backtracking on Muslims. The GOP has a chance to outflank the Dems on the left and save their party. If they don't, they're next.
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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
to do that. George Washington offered to serve without pay, provided his expenses were reimbursed afterward - but Congress was wise to that ploy after his heavily padded wartime expense account, and told him he'd have to take salary like the rest of the working stiffs.
who I've taken back, who I think sold out or who I think has made himself or herself largely irrelevant to me. Nor do I see a need to spend a lot of time or energy thinking about it. I think we have much bigger and more pressing problems. I know I do. If anyone has an idea, the idea needs to be evaluated. If it's good on its own, great. If not, move on. It's not about personalities.
They don't get back the trust they broke simply because the person they started shilling for lost.
Did Cenk talk much about Wolf-PAC during this election cycle? I feel he was too focused on the "make everyone hate Trump" plan, and abandoned promoting anti-corruption campaigning, when this was a perfect election to be promoting it.
not even Bernie. Not anymore. He has been compromised in some way When I read the bit about Little Napoleon backing Sanders to run the DNC, that was it. I don't "hate" him. I don't think he willingly sold anybody out--if he did, it was out of self-preservation. And that is "compromised". Media people do not get a pass, particularly those who were far, far Left before they were Centrist Suckups. Cenk. Rachel.
Bottom line? I'm done with the Democratic Party. Too much water under the bridge and too many good people thrown under the bus. Fool me once....
I guess 3 in hand is prolly pretty close to 5 in the bush or something...
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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
a statement of my level of anger at the DNC for the criminal acts they pulled, I commented thus at Youtube:
Fuck the DNC they will only play "Blame n' shame" time to fire up the Greens to get their platform known more and get the word out so that folks do better at voting more 3rd party as the "duopoly" is a smoke and mirror show. IF we actually had democracy all the parties would be on a similar footing, then we would have actual choice, not the LOTE shit-show. DNC destroyed itself, the leading elites of it will not step down, not introspect, and not acknowledge they fucked up.
cratic Party ideals to the Clinton Machine. He ceded his power to DWS. Look what happened.
I do not agree that Bernie should lead the DNC. Younger blood (and I am not being ageist, being aged myself).
We can burn down the house of the DNC. And take it back. We have until January to do that. After that, the other fire department has arrived.
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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
That would have some justice in it. Or Nina - Nina's really got some leadership soul in her. Either of those appointments would be salve to my wounds.
Bernie's got better things to do than run the DNC if he's going to build and lead a real resistance, which I do believe he will do.
The recent Wikileaks have made me reconsider some the level of DWS's power - she was effective in keeping Bernie, Jill and any other non-first-party folks hidden which certainly depressed their votes, but there was an awful lot orchestrated by Podesta and Brock which was way out of DWS's reach.
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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
He makes a lot of good points. The biggest problem I see is the money that is deployed against progressives in primaries by orgs like the DNC, DCCC, and DSCC. It is a lot harder to raise funds for an unknown progressive house candidate in a primary than for Bernie. Combine that with outright cheating and I'm not sure the party is fixable.
1. The DC leadership that decides who should be in charge of the DNC or serve that person has no interest in placing their critics in charge. The next person to be named will be just as bad. It's built into the system. It's patronage and mutual enrichment that's the goal. The DNC, and almost certainly the Democratic Party, is toast. Only someone from outside their bubble can point to any alternative course, and the DC crowd don't know any such people, much less would they want to listen to them.
2. Bernie would not be placed in charge of the DNC. The Schumers of this world, and Schumer's Wall Street donors, would not permit that. They'll get someone they can claim to represent the little people better, but it won't be true, it'll just be a different face painted upon one of their own. The people across this nation, in blue states as much as in red ones, rejected this crew, and would probably also reject everyone they didn't get a chance to reject in this election. So the DNC Chair will be another disaster. Besides, I'd not want Sanders to end his career as a captive to the Schumers and Schumer-donors of this world.
3-5, since they were the same thing. The money will never be removed from the system. Aside from a tiny few idealists, the people with the power to decide what is in the system are there for the money, not for you or me or noble intentions, not even for the betterment of the Party in the future, but for the money, period. Since they decide whether the money stays in politics, where they are ensconced in their "careers," it's not difficult to guess how they'd decide.
I rather like Cenk usually, not for his insights as much as for his manner of presenting them, which is less pretentious than most. But he's wrong on all this. The wreckage we saw in this election, before the votes even took place, will require not a tune-up, nor just some body work, but a complete rethinking of what the political vehicle should be. And there is no one in DC who would have the slightest idea what the process for that would be, much less the result.
If Citizens United decision can be overturned, this would be a major step away from the money-rules-politics scenario of the last 30 years. Money won't be completely decoupled from politics but the amounts will be restricted.
Furthermore, a functional and truly independent Federal Elections Committee that actually enforced election law, as the current version has so miserably failed to do, would be another boost to something at least resembling honest elections.
For state legislature. I think the strategy is to follow what Seattle has done with 3rd party candidates at the local and state levels, build the bench for 2020. I'm seriously considering running 3rd party myself in 2018 now, even though I have been registered D for my whole life. Sometimes you gotta vote with your feet, and the Democratic party will not wake up, so what choice do they leave us?
They spent a BILLION DOLLARS and lost. That DOES sting. There's a short window for the objectors to try to get inside and run the place. Might be worth it to keep an open mind and wait to write it off for a couple months.
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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
The national Democratic Party is currently run by party insiders. That does not promote change. It does not promote responsiveness to the electorate. It promotes careerist thinking. Who chooses the DNC leadership? I was a member of the Democratic Party, and I cannot remember ever being asked to vote on who would lead the Party. If you let Party members vote for their leaders, the result will more likely reflect current political realities, rather than the assumptions of career party insiders.
The rest is just reestablishing the Obama status quo positions pre-primary.
I don't trust Cenk as far as I can throw him. Never have. When I see a bullet point specifically calling for the heads of Pelosi, Schumer (instead of just DNC staffers) I'll start paying attention.
Until then, he's just another phony sheepdog trying to rebuild his cred so he can sell us out again.
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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Their Bernie plan allows him to be a pied piper who will rally the troops, and then they'll push him off a cliff, again, when it's time to insert their corporate puppet candidate.
Totally out of power so little lobbyist money coming in.
Use pseudo populist candidates to con small donations (which are value added because they create voter engagement) out of gullible Dems to buy themselves back into power.
Once lobby money starts flowing again tell small donors to fuck off. ("Impeachment is off the table.")
Fall out of power when small donors realize they've been conned and don't vote, so little lobby money coming in.
Rinse. Repeat.
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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Not with these bunch of shysters running the show.
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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Cenk still has to redeem himself. Cenk's redemption is through attacking the Democrat sellouts to the elite criminals (the only thing elite about the "elites" is their disregard for rule of law, morals and ethics). Attacking Trump, which is fine, is not the path for his redemption.
Trump was the ANTI- fascism candidate. The MSM hated him because first, he was a threat to their role in the corporatocracy and 2. he wasn't on the take. Trump owes noby anything. Insurance companies, oil companies, etc. He is Bernie Sanders with a potty mouth.
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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho
Comments
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I for one, have healed enough
I, for one, have healed enough that I can start "working" with both Cenk and Bernie again. I won't necessarily see them in the same way I did before, but I think we're on the same sides and, to the extent it's possible to take over the Democratic Party, I'm willing to try to help. I think that window of opportunity is very brief, however, so I won't commit to spending the next four years in futility.
I am ready to put all of the old behind and
reformulate my opinions based on what happens now. If Bernie, Warren and sherrod Brown take on the Dems and GOP, I'm listening. If Trump really governs seperate from the GOP, I'm ready for that too. Not counting on it but willing to give him a chance to form new alliances within. I think he was shocked and awed that he won. I heard, haven't verified, that he is taking no salary and backtracking on Muslims. The GOP has a chance to outflank the Dems on the left and save their party. If they don't, they're next.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
If Trump declines a salary,he'll be the first president *ever*
to do that. George Washington offered to serve without pay, provided his expenses were reimbursed afterward - but Congress was wise to that ploy after his heavily padded wartime expense account, and told him he'd have to take salary like the rest of the working stiffs.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
"We?" Do we all need to agree? Because I'm not sure
who I've taken back, who I think sold out or who I think has made himself or herself largely irrelevant to me. Nor do I see a need to spend a lot of time or energy thinking about it. I think we have much bigger and more pressing problems. I know I do. If anyone has an idea, the idea needs to be evaluated. If it's good on its own, great. If not, move on. It's not about personalities.
They have to earn it
They don't get back the trust they broke simply because the person they started shilling for lost.
Did Cenk talk much about Wolf-PAC during this election cycle? I feel he was too focused on the "make everyone hate Trump" plan, and abandoned promoting anti-corruption campaigning, when this was a perfect election to be promoting it.
I trust none of them
not even Bernie. Not anymore. He has been compromised in some way When I read the bit about Little Napoleon backing Sanders to run the DNC, that was it. I don't "hate" him. I don't think he willingly sold anybody out--if he did, it was out of self-preservation. And that is "compromised". Media people do not get a pass, particularly those who were far, far Left before they were Centrist Suckups. Cenk. Rachel.
Bottom line? I'm done with the Democratic Party. Too much water under the bridge and too many good people thrown under the bus. Fool me once....
His five point plan was
His five point plan was really only 3 points, but they are good ones none-the-less.
Oh, good - I thought I'd just lost track of a couple.
I guess 3 in hand is prolly pretty close to 5 in the bush or something...
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Oh no! Not BUSH!
Haven't we had enough of them yet.
Actually I agree with three being better than none.
Bernie Is Too Snart To Do This
He's not about to tie himself to a huge anchor and jump into shark-infested waters.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Language warning: I had to make it impactful, and the words are
a statement of my level of anger at the DNC for the criminal acts they pulled, I commented thus at Youtube:
So long, and thanks for all the fish
I'm turning off the "Democrat common wisdom" brigade
for awhile, they showed too little actual intelligence when it mattered.
Place the initial blame at the feet of Obama, who abandoned Demo
cratic Party ideals to the Clinton Machine. He ceded his power to DWS. Look what happened.
I do not agree that Bernie should lead the DNC. Younger blood (and I am not being ageist, being aged myself).
We can burn down the house of the DNC. And take it back. We have until January to do that. After that, the other fire department has arrived.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
How about bringing Tulsi back to head it?
That would have some justice in it. Or Nina - Nina's really got some leadership soul in her. Either of those appointments would be salve to my wounds.
Bernie's got better things to do than run the DNC if he's going to build and lead a real resistance, which I do believe he will do.
The recent Wikileaks have made me reconsider some the level of DWS's power - she was effective in keeping Bernie, Jill and any other non-first-party folks hidden which certainly depressed their votes, but there was an awful lot orchestrated by Podesta and Brock which was way out of DWS's reach.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Tasini has an oped
Up at CNN: Tear up the Democratic Party.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/opinions/democratic-party-burn-tasini/
We know what needs to be done. Do Bernie & the progressive democrats have the numbers to get it accomplished.
I read that earlier
He makes a lot of good points. The biggest problem I see is the money that is deployed against progressives in primaries by orgs like the DNC, DCCC, and DSCC. It is a lot harder to raise funds for an unknown progressive house candidate in a primary than for Bernie. Combine that with outright cheating and I'm not sure the party is fixable.
Bernie definitely has some ideas
On how to fix the DNC.
His new book comes out Tuesday. I'm eager to read it.
https://www.amazon.com/Our-Revolution-Believe-Bernie-Sanders-ebook/dp/B0...
No offense intended, but this misses the point in every way.
1. The DC leadership that decides who should be in charge of the DNC or serve that person has no interest in placing their critics in charge. The next person to be named will be just as bad. It's built into the system. It's patronage and mutual enrichment that's the goal. The DNC, and almost certainly the Democratic Party, is toast. Only someone from outside their bubble can point to any alternative course, and the DC crowd don't know any such people, much less would they want to listen to them.
2. Bernie would not be placed in charge of the DNC. The Schumers of this world, and Schumer's Wall Street donors, would not permit that. They'll get someone they can claim to represent the little people better, but it won't be true, it'll just be a different face painted upon one of their own. The people across this nation, in blue states as much as in red ones, rejected this crew, and would probably also reject everyone they didn't get a chance to reject in this election. So the DNC Chair will be another disaster. Besides, I'd not want Sanders to end his career as a captive to the Schumers and Schumer-donors of this world.
3-5, since they were the same thing. The money will never be removed from the system. Aside from a tiny few idealists, the people with the power to decide what is in the system are there for the money, not for you or me or noble intentions, not even for the betterment of the Party in the future, but for the money, period. Since they decide whether the money stays in politics, where they are ensconced in their "careers," it's not difficult to guess how they'd decide.
I rather like Cenk usually, not for his insights as much as for his manner of presenting them, which is less pretentious than most. But he's wrong on all this. The wreckage we saw in this election, before the votes even took place, will require not a tune-up, nor just some body work, but a complete rethinking of what the political vehicle should be. And there is no one in DC who would have the slightest idea what the process for that would be, much less the result.
Agree with almost all of your comment except:
If Citizens United decision can be overturned, this would be a major step away from the money-rules-politics scenario of the last 30 years. Money won't be completely decoupled from politics but the amounts will be restricted.
Furthermore, a functional and truly independent Federal Elections Committee that actually enforced election law, as the current version has so miserably failed to do, would be another boost to something at least resembling honest elections.
Nina Turner for DNC Chair
Not that the Clinton machine would allow that.. But does the Clinton machine have any legitimacy?
My liberal district had two Ds running unopposed
For state legislature. I think the strategy is to follow what Seattle has done with 3rd party candidates at the local and state levels, build the bench for 2020. I'm seriously considering running 3rd party myself in 2018 now, even though I have been registered D for my whole life. Sometimes you gotta vote with your feet, and the Democratic party will not wake up, so what choice do they leave us?
Love ya, mean it
It DID NOT wake up, but that doesn't mean it won't NOW
They spent a BILLION DOLLARS and lost. That DOES sting. There's a short window for the objectors to try to get inside and run the place. Might be worth it to keep an open mind and wait to write it off for a couple months.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
The Democratic party is part of the opposition to the
real People's Revolution. So is Cenk.
Problem: The national Democratic Party is not democratic
The national Democratic Party is currently run by party insiders. That does not promote change. It does not promote responsiveness to the electorate. It promotes careerist thinking. Who chooses the DNC leadership? I was a member of the Democratic Party, and I cannot remember ever being asked to vote on who would lead the Party. If you let Party members vote for their leaders, the result will more likely reflect current political realities, rather than the assumptions of career party insiders.
"All Life is Problem Solving" - Karl Popper
Since I Have DemExited, I Really Don't Care
I doubt they are capable of anything other than Neoliberal Corporatism. Best of luck to them in saving their souls.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Amazing how Cenk and Kos are both suddenly calling for Bernie.
for DNC. Almost like they both got the same memo.
The rest is just reestablishing the Obama status quo positions pre-primary.
I don't trust Cenk as far as I can throw him. Never have. When I see a bullet point specifically calling for the heads of Pelosi, Schumer (instead of just DNC staffers) I'll start paying attention.
Until then, he's just another phony sheepdog trying to rebuild his cred so he can sell us out again.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
their Bernie plan
Their Bernie plan allows him to be a pied piper who will rally the troops, and then they'll push him off a cliff, again, when it's time to insert their corporate puppet candidate.
It's all just 'how the game is played' right Kos?
And it's why you'll keep losing.
2004 redux
Totally out of power so little lobbyist money coming in.
Use pseudo populist candidates to con small donations (which are value added because they create voter engagement) out of gullible Dems to buy themselves back into power.
Once lobby money starts flowing again tell small donors to fuck off. ("Impeachment is off the table.")
Fall out of power when small donors realize they've been conned and don't vote, so little lobby money coming in.
Rinse. Repeat.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
It's a good ploy...
promoting a left vs. corporatist battle for the soul of the Dem. Party in an attempt to revitalize a damaged web site.
We can take back the party!
Yeah. Sure we can.
Not with these bunch of shysters running the show.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Recommended for Sentiment, Not for Cenk
Cenk still has to redeem himself. Cenk's redemption is through attacking the Democrat sellouts to the elite criminals (the only thing elite about the "elites" is their disregard for rule of law, morals and ethics). Attacking Trump, which is fine, is not the path for his redemption.
This video is a start.
When the MSM and Cenk are paid off it's called fascism.
Trump was the ANTI- fascism candidate. The MSM hated him because first, he was a threat to their role in the corporatocracy and 2. he wasn't on the take. Trump owes noby anything. Insurance companies, oil companies, etc. He is Bernie Sanders with a potty mouth.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho
Trump is Nowhere Near Sanders
Sanders swam in the cesspool and came out relatively stink free. That's an extraordinary character.
Trump chose to exploit ... well pretty much everyone and everything ... for his personal gain. Trump is dictatorial.
Bernie off the shit list?
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fyar4wJ3-Y]
Nope, both he and Cenk have been Clintoned slimed.
That shit doesn't EVER wash out.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.