Breaking down the election by the numbers
Over at TOP, this election was all about the racism and misogyny of Donald Trump.
But in the real world...
Many predicted the missteps and scandals of President-elect Donald Trump’s campaign would lead to weakened support among women, blacks and young voters in Tuesday’s election.
Those concerns proved to be largely unfounded, exit poll data shows...Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton won the female vote 54%-42%. In 2012, President Obama won among women 55%-44%.
Women accounted for about 52% of the electorate on Tuesday, a 1-point drop from 2012 — even though this year’s election was the first in which a woman was the presidential nominee of a major political party...While black voters overwhelmingly supported Clinton, Trump lost by a narrower margin than his predecessor.
Trump won 8% of the black vote, compared with 6% of the black vote earned by Romney in 2012.
About 88% of black voters supported Clinton, representing a decline from 2012, when 93% of black voters cast their ballot for Obama...
Probably the biggest surprise is with Hispanics.
It has been widely reported that the 29% of Hispanic voters who supported Mr Trump was greater than the 27% who voted for the Republican candidate Mitt Romney in 2012, despite Mr Trump's comments about Mexicans and plans to build a wall on the US's southern border.
And remember how Clinton courted the Republican vote?
There were stories before the election of Republicans planning to vote for Mrs Clinton because they did not like their own candidate, but the exit poll actually suggested that 7% of people who identified themselves as Republicans had voted for Mrs Clinton, while 9% of those who identified as Democrats had voted for Mr Trump.
Obviously this is a story of Clinton's weaknesses rather than Trump's strengths.
Need more proof?
As for the post-election finger-pointing about how the racists turned out for Trump, consider this.
“Clinton suffered her biggest losses in the places where Obama was strongest among white voters. It’s not a simple racism story.”
Low-income rural white voters in Pa. voted for Obama in 2008 and then Trump in 2016, and your explanation is white supremacy? Interesting.
— Tim Carney (@TPCarney) November 9, 2016
Finally, there is the dubious claim that Bernie wouldn't have done any better against Trump.
The RealClearPolitics average from May 6-June 5 had Sanders at 49.7% to Trump's 39.3%, a 10.4-point cushion.
In that same time frame, Trump was polling close to Clinton and was even ahead in multiple polls.
During an appearance on Meet The Press at the end of May, Sanders acknowledged that disparity: "Right now, in every major poll, national poll and statewide poll done in the last month, six weeks, we are defeating Trump often by big numbers, and always at a larger margin than secretary Clinton is."
That polling was of course based on a hypothetical scenario, five months from Election Day. However, Sanders' popularity among white working-class voters might have been the difference in this election; voters that Trump ultimately won.
Sanders defeated Clinton in both the Wisconsin and Michigan primaries, two of the states that Trump surprised in on Tuesday.
Bernie was also strong with the same millennials that supported Obama, millennials that were turned off of Hillary by her campaign's dirty tricks.
Among voters 18 to 29, Clinton defeated Trump 55%-37%. The split represented a tighter margin than in the 2012 election, when Obama defeated Romney 60%-37%.
Minor-party candidates performed strongest among voters under 30, with Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson earning 5% of the vote in that age group and Green Party nominee Jill Stein winning 2%.
Comments
Dropping this on TOP
should be interesting
Front page...
Is all about 'Democrats didn't show up!' And voter suppression. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Tell me lies...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcjpags7JT8]
Since it looks like we're headed for Reagan II...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
That's because the number of people who call themselves
Democrats is shrinking.
Gee, I can't imagine why that would be. A real mystery.
Even the smallest person can change the course of the future
When will we get numbers on #DemExit?
My guess is never. National would not know of mine, done in July, because NY only updates in January based on past performance. No problem voting.;-)
What is the current head count of Democrats? There will never be one again.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I have found that information for Colorado
broken down by month, over on the SOS web site. I'll massage it a little this evening and graph it here directly. http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/VoterRegNumbers/VoterRegNumber...
On a national basis, you're right- the party will never release it, because it would probably embarrass The Management. But with some diligence it might be possible to put together a reasonable picture, one state at a time. I'll bang out Colorado. Anybody else feel like researching their state?
On looking at the data: the number of folks registered Green puddles along right around 7000 up until July, when it jumps to 8612 for August and then takes off and reaches 11,355 by November. Registered Ds ramps up from 904k in January to 980k in July, and then drops to 953k for Aug, before ramping back up to 1,040,948 for November. Unaffiliated hovers right at 1,000,000 until July, when it suddenly jumps to 1,020,697 in Aug, and then ramps up to 1,140,909 for November. Lastly, Rs start out at 941k in January, ramps up to 988k in Aug, and ramps up to 1,031,512 for November.
So there's a strong case to be made for ~20k d's becoming Green or unaffiliated in the August numbers: both major parties lost registrants in August, while unaffiliated, Green, and the other minor parties gained. And there was a heck of a jump in registered voters overall between August (2,983,998) and November (3,273,112).
So I think, in Colorado at least, #DemExit might have accounted for maybe 2% reduction in the d total... Stein/Baraka got 31,096 votes, or 1.26%: almost 3 times as many votes as registered Greens.
Count me...
As one of those Coloradans who switched from D to I after Hillary stole the primaries. Guess what Dems? We can now vote in your little primaries without changing our affiliation.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
I got similar curves from the donor database
Here's the third party running contributor count through September:
Notice the jumps in both sets after July. Not to mention McMullin getting his first contribution on August 8th.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I know the reason
It's because the Democratic Party has become such a beacon of enlightenment, such an archive of sage wisdom, and such a veritable repository of humanity, goodness, and the milk of human kindness, that most mere mortals feel themselves unworthy of membership in such a lofty and high-minded organization.
I sadly must own up to counting myself amongst these deplorable souls. How depressing it is to realize that the Democrats will likely have to throttle back on the virtue and righteousness quotient in order to have any chance of future success against the down-and-dirty Trumpistas.
inactive account
Well played
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Today's oxymoron: Democratic Strategist
They're filling the TV screen today. Talk about your sage wisdom.
Could we call the Trumpsters instead? n/t
There was voter suppression
There always is in every election. It happened in every election I've paid attention to regarding this issue since 2004 when I worked for Election Protection. Yet somehow Barack Obama won facing the same voter suppression that Hillary did as far as I can tell. Many Democrats didn't turnout for her, and people turned off by both candidates often didn't vote at all, or didn't vote for President (what they call an undervote) by a number twice as large as the undervotes in 2012.
Clinton won the same percentage of the African American vote than Kerry did in 2004: 88% Clinton in 2016 and 88% for Kerry in 2004, but much less than Obama in 2008 and 2016. Her percentage among women voters was less than Obama, also, despite being the first female nominee for the Democratic Party. Fewer Hispanics voted for her than Obama in 2012 despite Trump's overt racism against Hispanics. Young people gave her a majority of their votes (the largest percentage of any groups) but still less than Obama in 2008 and 2012.
So, she and her campaign have only themselves to blame.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Let's not forget her supporters. And in particular the ones
who told us repeatedly that they didn't need our votes.
Tell people they aren't wanted or needed often enough and with enough meanness, and they'll eventually listen.
This election is on Hillary supporters' heads as much as it is on hers.
Voter suppression and a lot of things that made a few
percent difference. ........But Hillary Clinton was running against Donald Trump, who is a clown with megabaggage. She should have won by 40 percentage points. She could hardly have done worse if she had intentionally thrown the election.
Thanks to Clinton and the DNC, I'm not a Democrat anymore.
#Demexited after more than four decades. So I wasn't a Democrat on Nov. 8 and shouldn't have been expected to show up. In fact, not only did I NOT vote for Clinton, I voted for only 2 Ds on my ballot--for the first time, not voting straight D on autopilot.
Even if I had still been a Democrat, that label isn't enough anymore. The Democratic Party has alternately ignored, tinkled on, kicked, shamed, and blamed my corner of the shrinking tent for decades. It has courted us half-heartedly and then frozen us out 'til the next election. Promises promises, without the music.
Don't you wonder what the #Demexit tally is?
Predictably, the party and the pundits aren't taking away the right lesson from this rejection, which the Very Smart People didn't see coming but the villagers did. That lesson, I think, is simply this:
Evolve or die.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
It's the economy, stupid! (again)
not identity politics
very telling data...
I haven't been able to run down a link for this data yet because the exit polling still doesn't appear to be available in one place, but, according to MSNBC yesterday:
Of those who said they are worse off financially than 4 years ago:
78% voted Trump
19% voted Clinton.
If $$Hillary had spent less time playing footsie with the billionaires and more time feeling the pain of desperate working-class voters, she would have won.
If $$Hillary could even *fake* feeling their pain,
she wouldn't be $$Hillary.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
(No subject)
I early voted for Stein. During the primary I tried to
convince my local party to back Bernie because the party has been withering away for years. They knew better, however and backed the wrong candidate.
What else can I do for you?
Signed,
A boomer
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Did anybody else catch the moment
very late last night when Chris Matthews on MSNBC started talking reasonably? He said things like: Trump ran to the left of HRC on Trade, War and Jobs.... The steam coming out of Rachel Maddow's ears was noticeable and the bitch slap came down so quickly... Then Brian Williams changed the subject and then they tried to sell us an overpriced lease on a new foreign made automobile.
I am praying that the mainstream middle class baby boomer Democratic voter pulls their head out of their ass and cuts the fucking cable.
God help us.
The comments are more reasonable than I expected.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
They have teacherken's diary to vent their "It was all the
racist sexist bumpkin proles fault!" with a generous scoop of warmed over anti-Nader venom toward third party voters.
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
One thing that drives me crazy about that crowd
is that they're far more concerned with the purity of their coalition than they are with the purity of their candidates. Talk about having it exactly backwards! They have no problem voting for a corrupt, neoliberal warmonger as long as (they imagine) their coalition is only made up of the kind of people they approve of. They reject good candidates if they think those candidates might draw support from some icky rednecks or something. Of course, in a country of 300 million people with only two major parties, there is no such thing as a pure coalition. Although I imagine if we give the Orange State crowd some more time, they'll deliver one. It will be a very small coalition, but it will be pure.
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." --Noam Chomsky
You are a glutton for punishment
And the response was exactly as predicted.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
But hey...
Identity Politics is SOOOO Much easier.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Agree.
Race was certainly a factor here - how can it not be when the winner opened his campaign by calling out Mexicans as "criminals and rapists" and vowing to ban Muslims from coming to the US? But I agree with your analysis (as I posted earlier): class issues were decisive. NYTimes exit polls tell the story.
This election was a victory for democracy over an isolated, insulated Establishment. Masses of voters who have been ill-used by BOTH party elites for DECADES turned the Presidency over to an outsider whose key promise was to bring back the jobs.
Unfortunately, that result is tainted by the fact that the winner is also a moron, a racist and a misogynist with an authoritarian streak a mile wide. Walter Benjamin was right: "Behind every fascism is a failed revolution" (my quote of the day, I keep repeating it, sorry to be redundant).
Having just watched Trump's victory speech, my head is spinning.
Are 8% of blacks and 30% of Latinos racist against themselves?
Both of Trump's comments speak to real issues.
First, "Mexican rapists." It's very convenient for a liberal writer, economist, software developer, teacher, what have you, to be all gung-ho for poor unskilled people coming over the border in droves in an uncontrolled fashion, because there aren't a lot of poor Hondurans who don't speak English who can get good jobs coding at Google or teaching special ed. But if you're in a trade, or work in a factory, those immigrants represent an immediate cut in your paycheck. It goes to the heart of neoliberal globalism to force first-world working classes to compete for wages directly against the poorest of developing-world labor. Why would any liberal support that unless they're neoliberals?
As far as the rapist thing goes--there is a crime problem when people come piling into poor neighborhoods, especially given the way the war on drugs is inextricably linked with immigration today.
Did Trump state the problem correctly--politically or otherwise? No, yegads. Now, I'm sure some of his voters probably agreed with exactly what he said. But I think a lot also chose to overlook it because they "knew what he meant" or because Hillary was worse.
Bernie would've known how to deal with this: Don't let the statement pass, but also quickly prove you understand what the concerns are. Hillary just called everybody a racist, making it clear she didn't understand or care about voters' concerns.
I think what you say here is really important.
This is what's so shocking and frustrating about the locked mindset of her most ardent supporters. They don't see the problems facing low-income people in the rust belt nor the history of the Clinton policies that led to them. They just see the racism expressed by Trump.
As for Clinton and her professional advisors, they do see the problems, they know what caused them, and they see an assertive labor force as an enemy of globalization.
My point exactly
Trump offered a racialized appeal to economic concerns: black and brown people are taking your jobs, money, and security away. That approach has a long pedigree in US electoral politics. Bernie, like early 20th century 'progressives' and social democrats, couched economic concerns in the context of class rather than race: it's the 1% who are taking your money, with a rigged game
I suspect Trump's argument was a lot easier for some people to wrap their heads around: it's easier to get angry and resentful of foreign "others" (and "criminals" at that) than to cope with the idea that the "job creators" are taking one's jobs away.
the physical fact is that brown people
are in the trades and pay is not what it should be.
the difference is in the explanation offered.
His Victory Speech Surprised Me. My Head Was Spinning Too.
It was a pretty good speech. He also delivered it quite well.
I was completely surprised.
Now, I don't believe him for a second, but the speech, sentiment, and delivery all exceeded my very low expectations.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
It is my fault, your fault, the dog's fault - everyone's fault
but the crappy candidate they foisted on the the party.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I confess, my cats did it
all by themselves. Damn these spoiled animals for denying Shillary her coronation, but hey, they did alright by their own human so all's good.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Please! We all know Putin was terrified of Hillary.
That's why he caused her to lose.
Speaking of Putin
There were so many comments over there last night saying that Putin interfered with the election and one person wrote
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
LOL
Yes, you have to learn Russian
Just this minute I was unfriended
by a high school friend who claimed that third party voters cost Clinton Florida. I responded that I was one of those disenfranchised third party voters who could not vote for Clinton because of her war mongering. I explained that it was a vote of conscience that reflected my nearly five year participation in a Peace vigil and that my conscience was clear. She came back with a vengeance and said she did not care if my conscience was clear because my vote cost Clinton the victory. I apologized and said that I would never post anything on her political posts again. Then she said to stay away and then came back where she lashed out at me and told me that he did not ever want to see me again. Then she unfriended me. It really shook me up to have someone react so angrily toward me personally over politics.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Stay strong
Hurts, doesn't it? [[Hug]]
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Lordy, I've been off that forum since June
I pop in for births and deaths and that's about it.
Could not stomach it other than to follow my friends in Philly and what happened to our delegation. This election has made decent people awful.
It will eventually blow over. Life goes on.
For me? The attacks on Social Security and Medicare may limit my life more than it is currently. But that was going to happen under either candidate. This one will do it in broad day light, and I believe there will be SIGNIFICANT pushback which would not be possible under Clinton since her friends would not cross her as she mucked around where others could not see.
As awful as this outcome is, I think progressives are best poised to unite and put up a front which can make progress.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Maybe it's a straw . . .
but I grasp it tightly. You have produced the optimistic thought of the day.
Trump did promise, unequivocally for a politician, that he wouldn't cut Social Security. And Democrats support such programs much more strongly when they are attacked by Republicans. It's their ability to put working people on the block with minimum fuss that makes them worth the investment by the bankers, health insurance industry, etc.
Thank you. Silver lining is in short supply.
I saw a post on that here somewhere today and, apologies to the
poster, I forgot who posted it.
Krugman made some Nader comparison about Stein and Florida. The poster pointed out that, if you take Hillary's votes and add Stein's to them, Hillary still didn't have enough votes to win. IOW, Nobel prize winning economist Krugman lied and people are buying it.
BTW, no offense to your friend, but, unless Hillary lost by one vote, her comment your costing Hillary Florida is off the wall. And Hillary did not lose the electoral vote by just Florida, either. The Hillbots are pretending this is 2000. It isn't.
And even if HRC had won Florida, it would have
been, at best, a 270-270 tie, leaving it to the overwhelming GOP majority in the house to select the Beeg Vinner. Even were they to dare selecting HRC, the result would be riots, and a Presidency universally regarded as illegitimate.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
don't forget Johnson
if only the 2 clowns were on the ballot it would have been called probably a couple of hours earlier - for Trump.
“The first duty of a man is to think for himself”
Funny thing is that it was the Libertarians that prevented
Trump from winning even more States.
Hey GG
There is an old saying I often go by when dealing with people, Those who care don't mind and those that mind don't care. So I say F'em!
If you ever do run into your former friend
kindly explain to her that most third-party votes in Florida went to the libertarian, Johnson. If Johnson hadn't been on the ballot those vote would have gone to Trump.
I lost my best friend in 2008 over Hillary
She had assumed that I would vote for H and when I voted for Obama she became totally enraged. When I told her let's not fight, you know both of us will vote for the Dem candidate no matter who wins (yep, I still voted D), my friend hung up on me and I haven't spoken with her since mid 2008. Not for lack of trying on my part. I finally gave up when H launched her candidacy this time. This is a woman who was such good friends that when her husband was dying, and since she does not have a nurturing bone in her body, I quit my job and moved to another state to take care of the husband. And I was with him til the end. I just don't understand what about Hillary makes people so crazy.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
I would be delighted to Friend you.
But I will PM my name. Only a tad paranoid now. Could have been worse!
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Everything you need to understand is right here:
2012 Presidential Vote totals (Top two candidates):
2016 Presidential Vote totals (Top two candidates):
It's right fucking there. It isn't about the handful of votes Stein won.
It's about the 6 million people who either:
a. voted for Obama in 2012, and stayed the fuck home in 2016.
b. came of age since 2012, and declined to vote at all.
and the reason, whether a or b, was that HRC was a horrible, terrible, no-good very bad candidate.
just as we told the fuckers.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
good numbers to have handy
Here's another: 2008 vote totals -
Obama / Biden 69,498,516
McCain / Palin 59,948,323
Fairly consistent Republican turnout (or support). Dems losing 10,000,000 votes b/w 2008-1016.
oops, sorry, double post
(edited to remove redundancy)
One of my father's colorful sayings
"Go ahead, shit your pants. I'll take the blame."
Luckly I learned early on.
I once complained to a buddy why is it that Ron Paul really articulates a good anti-war stance (but not dems). The guy went ballistic with rants having nothing to do with anti-war positions. I just don't say anything to the more rabid democrat partisans I know.
The first thing I did this morning was check the numbers.
In my state: Clinton = 861,702, Stein = 22,734, Trump = 943,309
Clinton + Stein is still less than Trump.
Suck it Dems.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
"Fly Over Country"
also might be of value for some people to look at a map of the voters this election, the red part of the country, often referred to as "fly over country" dominates the map. There is no "blue firewall." There is less blue on the edges of the map then ever before.
Wake up folks.
So glad never to have been on FB. Sorry for anyone who has been hurt by the ranting stupidity we're seeing.
*friend* :)
I don't do or have facebook... but we can always be friends, dear lady.
Okay... I do do instagram though. Do do? Sorry it was a long day at work.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Janet, as much as I hate sayin',
I'm not sorry you had a long day at work. That just means more people were chillin' and not throwing barcaloungers through TVs and windows.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Ha! ghotiphaze :)
Had once customer ask if we had any strain that would make him high for 4 years.
We claimed our shop as a sanctuary from politics and religion. Except the politics of marijuana was open and I do know that for a few people... it was really great to be reminded of something positive happening across the land. People are not being put in for profit prisons over a damn plant. That truly seemed to help some people get through their day.
And an old friend came by to visit from my old job. She brought her older son who I connected with, the election made them miss me and they found me and visited.. He is, like my son, autistic but has 1/3 of his tongue missing. We just got close over 8 years of his Mom shopping at my old grocery place. He'd even come in to show me his Elvis costumes. (it's Portland, we allow people to just be chill and be weird-
So that was really special to be see them today.
I think today people really needed to be reaching out to others. Several of us lost people today too though.
I didn't lose my best friend. She still loves me. We both voted for women. Just different ones.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
So give Clinton
all of Jill's votes in Florida and she still loses. Give Johnson's to Trump and she loses even worse. Now give her Jill's and Johnson's and she wins. SEE it's those damn 3 party voters!! They aren't smart enough to realize that most of Johnson's would got to Trump...
Florida
D. Trump 49.1% 4,605,515
D H. Clinton 47.8% 4,485,745
L G. Johnson 2.2% 206,007
G J. Stein 0.7% 64,019
C D. Castle 0.2% 16,393
R R. De La Fuente 0.1% 9,071
I posted some data on that subject, in another essay.
In response to a similar situation. I'll save you heading over there, unless you want to read the whole thing. Jill Stein got 64,019 votes in Florida, Trump beat Hillary by 119,761. Add all Stein votes to Hillary, and she still lost.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Fear. That thing that's been mongered relentlessly.
Fears spoken and unspoken. Manipulation of psyches en masse. That pot's still being stirred, fears still being mongered. The pundits aren't letting go, stoking protests they can cover on air and use to stoke more.
FEAR MONGERING - Chris Hayes leads with Trump protests - Rachel Maddow leads with WWIII nuclear launch scare story followed by Trump protests - Soros and moveon.org co-ordinating more agitators in New York, Chicago, Seattle?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/comments/5c5ezv/fear_monge...
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
They are definitely odd
I have a pretty intelligent friend, a Berkeley graduate and works in the US patent office. The moment he joined the Clinton's bandwagon, he seemed to lose all his common sense and intelligence. He acted like a brainwashed person and, after a while, I got tired of correcting all the misinformation he believed in.
A Clinton
cannot fail but can only be failed by her/his supporters. Where have we heard that before?
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Hillary Clinton, like Bush II, has failed upward most of her
adult life. One of the definitions of "privileged."
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Certainly Not the Fault of the Advisors and Consultant Class. nt
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Good to see some numbers and analysis..
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I second that - very importtant piece
Thank you.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Do not forget that much of the
big $ behind the DNC prefers this outcome to a Sanders Presidency when they close their eyes and go to sleep at night. Race is a very convenient straw man.
Yes, in their world
Tim Kaine is the heir apparent.
Maybe we have seen the last of the actual Clintons, but make no mistake, Clintonism is still a cancer infecting the Democratic Party.
Even the smallest person can change the course of the future
No no no
I hope not. Tim Kaine was, as David Talbot put it, a banal errand boy for the corporatists who owned Clinton. But you point is well-taken. The Dems are still in controlled by the corporatists and I see no reason for them to join the common folk.
Just read a Mother Jones article
nameing the dems they want to run in 2020, nothing but Third Way hawks, of course Kain was on the list.
Solidarity forever
The real Mother Jones
is rolling over in her grave.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Seriously
She was an amazing lady and a real fighter.
These people (Drum especially) should be ashamed to use her name now.
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it."
Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
David and Kevin on MOJO listed 11 Dems who might
beat Trump in 2020. In alphabetical order they were: Booker, Duckworth, Gillibrand, Harris, Hickenlooper, Kaine, Klobuchar, Michelle Obama, O'Malley, Murphy and Warren. Anyone see more than a glimmer of hope there long with the desire to truly retch at quite a few? Thought not. Yep! Still thinking like neoliberals almost 100%. The message of the election has been truly lost on establishment Dems. They are fossils.
Edited to add...took me so long to post Akze beat me to it....sorry!
Nailed it.
I heard millions fewer Democrats turned out for Hillary than
for B.O.
SIX MILLION MISSING "DEMOCRATS"
See the numbers I posted above.
And that doesn't even take into account how many of HRC's votes came from horrified Republican women.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Maths, figures and data are a Russian PLOT!!!!!
I've been found out!
A large percentage of voters, 60% or so it appears,
basically detested both candidates but voted what was lesser evil in their minds. I know for myself, I almost voted Trump at the end because of what I viewed the importance of keeping Clinton and those behind her from the WH. So those really "supporting" this creature are probably around 20%. The old "20%" thing. Bush had his twenty percenters remember? There is no doubt racism played a part in this, I hate to see that denied by those wanting to fight with Daily Kos and the Dems over why Trump won. Obviously it wasn't all about race, it was more about the disaffected clinging to a message of change, same shit we hear every election. But we'd better watch Trump from here on out, what he does with his idiotic Wall idea, shipping all illegal immigrants home, expanding the War OF Terror, profiling and stigmatizing Muslims and Mexicans, etc. not to mention his "make America safe" bullshit, beefing up law enforcement, combatting crime. That's some dangerous shit because it's all based on lies.
Good stuff in the link below (some rebuttals stronger than
others)
8 Lies Progressives Were Told About What Would Happen if Trump Wins: http://www.inquisitr.com/3698077/eight-lies-progressives-were-told-about...
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Over at TOP...
...I've been looking at comments posted last night by some of the Hillbots I had the misfortune to tangle with last spring before I was suddenly banned for no apparent reason. I almost feel sorry for them now. Almost. They were so convinced, back then and up until about 24 hours ago, that their Neocon-lite darling of Wall Street and the DNC establishment was going to romp to glorious victory. Hell, I thought she was going to score a modest win.
Bernie supporters tried to tell 'em -- we tried, right? -- that having a nominee who's under FBI investigation might result in disaster. I remember, more than once, saying something along the lines of, well, the FBI could decide to indict or take a renewed interest in the e-mail investigation in October, mere weeks before the election, and then it would be All Hail President Trump. That's just about exactly what happened. The FBI burped two weeks out, and Hillary's poll numbers took a dive. She would have won had Wiener's laptop not popped up.
Now maybe they'll learn over there at TOP: Never nominate a fucking crook!
I agree the FBI thing is a very big deal.
Somehow, her supporters think this statement by Comey is an exoneration, that it says no crimes were committed:
That's an exoneration? No clear evidence of intent? OK. Even if we assumed there was no intent to remove State Department business from the government's system and hide it from the American people and remove it from the jurisdiction of the Freedom of Information Act, which I don't, is it their position that groping is more dangerous than extreme carelessness in the handling of very sensitive, highly classified information? Really? Is this the ditz factor they're trying to sell to the American people as feminism?
I apologize. I love so many people who believe she's a better, more progressive candidate than any Republican. It's just very difficult to see how their hatred of Republicans seems to overtake their common sense.
Don't forget their favorite response:
"She's already been vetted by 30 years of Republican attacks!"
Somehow, it just didn't seem possible to them that we hadn't seen the worst. All that whistling past the graveyard, such as the dumbass apologia regarding the gazillions of dollars in speaking fees from the bona fide enemies of the 99%, reflected the ultimate in ad hominem reasoning: The accusers were evil assholes, therefore the charges were bogus.
Their inability to step back and project the comparable circumstance onto their political enemies -- to imagine and comprehend how furiously angry, accusatory, and judgemental they would be if any Republican candidate enjoyed a similiar stream of graft -- is a fucking case study in the triumph of tribal lizard-brain cognition over the higher-order thinking of which we H. sapiens are so smugly proud.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Well said.
These people have never grasped the distinction between cleared and exposed.
I was an optimist
Over at TOP I kept predicting that Hillary would get about 62 mil votes, and that might not be enough. She got 591/2. I said that the Democrats were bleeding 4 million votes a pres. cycle - this time they bled 6 mil.
On the other hand I predicted, based on estimates of voter alienation rates, that both Hillary and Trump might go down as far as 55 million votes - they both went down to 591/2 ( Romney got 60) Basically I was sort of right; both alienated a lot of voters, but Hillary a lot more than Trump. The Rs, whether they were racists or just angry, mostly held. The people abandoned Hillary.
Let's look at the bright side: no WW3, at least until Trump blusters and blunders into it, no more Cat Food Commission, at least unless Trump starts listening to Paul Ryan - yeah, right. No more TPP, unless Trump starts listening to the business press. (does he want to be a 1 term president?) and last but not least, identity politics and triangulation - someone remember to flush.
On to Biden since 1973
Hmmm but I think Trump will be for TPP after "renegotiating"
Some unimportant bits and declaring himself the master deal maker. Then he can sell it to the serfs AND keep the neocons happy AND keep buying that Chinese steel etc.
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