organic gardening and privilege

I just this morning responded to a response I had from poster CantStoptheSignal on the subject of permaculturists being dismayed by the phenomenon of what they call 'entryism', in other words, new people trying to take over their movement, which movement is, I might add, complete non political.

Now, I am a fan of CantStoptheSignal, and greatly admire that poster's acumen and brilliance as showed in many diaries and posts.

However, with no offense intended to anyone here--DK is another story-- I do think the time has come to address the whole question of if you don't buy your bread and veges at Safeway you are taking food out of the mouths of, take your pick, the poor, immigrants, or persons of color or some other designated victim.

As I responded to CantStoptheSignal, organic organizations, famers, gardeners and fora have been subjected to sustained assault from the representatives of agribiz and their bought and paid for govt. officials. I have myself identified and called out several corporate plants in different gardening fora. Anything written by posters calling themselves 'Imp' and 'MemfromSummerville' should be read with extreme caution. MfS was active at DK for a time. Imp is known to have sicced health inspectors on at least one organic farmer who did not even live in the same state as Imp because she (she is known to be female, I actually do know her name although I didn't go looking for it) was miffed by the farmer's refusal to be intimidated by Imp's avid and blatant probiotech propaganda. It became apparent to me that the biotech companies use their paid minions to try out new themes that later show up in the mainstream media.

I have never understood why Bernie didn't make an issue of Killery's biotech ties. She has taken lots of cash from Monsatan, in particular, the most hated corporation on this planet. Two weeks before she announced her candidacy for president, she made a major speech to an agribiz convention in which she said that biotech needs to do a better job of selling itself.

Since time out of mind, it has been understood and accepted that the best way for the lower orders to alleviate their situation is to produce necessities such as food and clothing at home, rather than use scarce coin to buy from someone else. Or it has been understood until the present day of predatory capitalism. Furthermore, I would argue, home production creates wealth. Money not spent on shoddy consumer products can, for example, stay in the bank and be used for productive investment. Or it can be used for charitable giving. Or for education and training of one's children. And when you do need to buy something, you can afford to support good people making good products. Two American companies I would like to highly recommend are The Red Pig, a blacksmith in Gresham, OR, who makes garden hand tools, and Rogue Hoes, a company in Missouri which uses discarded agricultural disks to make a line of hoes, and other long handled implements which are the best I have ever used. Period. Long handled is important because I have back problems enough without having to bend over a short hoe.

What is more than anything else causing the immiseration of the poor today is not refusal of white working class dummies--who have no money left-- to go to Wallyworld and buy, buy, buy, but insanely high housing prices, rents in particular. I have yet to see any political party, Greens, Libertarians or the duopoly, address this point.

As for the far Left, alternative newspapers which I have seen on both coasts, can tell you the details of every CIA atrocity on five continents in the last five decades but can't tell you why your rent is so high, or who owns the bulk of rental housing in your town or who sits on utility and zoning commissions, and what those people's alliances and biases are. This an area in which leftist radicals could use their exceptional investigative skills to good effect.

The organic gardening and sustainable farming movement has, I think, painfully and slowly come to the realization that the Democratic Party is not their friend or ally. If the Libertarians had the sense they were born with, they would be aggressively appealing to this group of voters, many of whom do have rather conservative views, but I suppose the Lib's corporate backers have nixed that idea.

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dropped out of the Cali Organic System because they dropped the GMO mandatory labeling requirements and made them voluntary, I figured it is all over. Big Ag got the Feds to water down the organic standards so they(Big Ag) could profit on organic labels, without meeting real(grassroots) standards. Typical. If we can't squeeze money out of it, it has to go.
peace

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

The list of Democrats, or maybe that should be Dumbocrats, who voted for that travesty is depressing.

The attack on Eden Foods, and the comments at DK, made me so mad I try to buy something from Eden, like one can of soup, whenever I can. I DON'T CARE what their health ins. policies are. I care that they provide a superior product and buy from organic farms in their area.

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Mary Bennett

thanatokephaloides's picture

When Bronners dropped out of the Cali Organic System because they dropped the GMO mandatory labeling requirements and made them voluntary,

.... it inspired me to go buy another bottle of Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Soap.

Thank Cat for Essene Kosher requirements! Dr. B's will remain genuinely organic regardless of what Californica decides to do.

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Deja's picture

I love it! It invigorates me in the morning. The label is kooky, but like you, I love their attitude and hard-held resolution to maintain their integrity.

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WaterLily's picture

I highly recommend this documentary, if you haven't already seen it!

Dr. Bronner's Magic Soapbox

We also love Dr. Bronner's. Only soap we use. Just bought some of the lavender scent -- I can't wait to try it!

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Partly because It is just too expensive to compete with the corrupted crony global food distribution system. It's a big difference between providing people healthy food for a living - or making more profit for (already wealthy) investors. Who Owns Organic
Organic Chart Jan. 2016

Thanks

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

about infiltration. 100% in agreement.

Good diary, and it's an important one.

One big problem, along with the rent/housing problem--the assault on time.
Most people are running like crazy trying to keep their heads above water--no time to manage a garden.
I've often thought it might be a good thing for the unemployed to do, but sometimes when you're unemployed you're running just as hard trying to get a job as the workers are who have one--except you don't get paid.

Both these things encourage people to just go where they can buy the cheapest things, and make it through another day. Time becomes worth more than anything else.

Gotta go, but great diary.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Your point about time is an important one. Add to that the constant need to present oneself at this or that govt. or charitable office, with all that entails. Busfare. Clean clothes and appearance, nevermind if your water was just shut off. No bathrooms for kids, no place to change the baby. Kids get hungry. One trip to MickeyD can blow the entire month's budget.

And then there is school. OMG, don't get me started on school officials. Some school districts are beginning to source lunch ingredients from local providers. The problem is that school boards and administrators sign on with one distributor, usually a friend or relative, who him or herself gets kickbacks from grocery distributors.

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Mary Bennett

k9disc's picture

I think a strong political angle to tackle corporate sponsored public policy was to put forth a platform that gave people more time.

More time for their families.

More time for their passions.

More time for new opportunities.

More time for recreation.

That changes the calculus of value and makes Walmart and consumption a secondary concern.

Perhaps that is a place for the Left to put some efforts.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Maybe you might want to write a diary elaborating on that thought?

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Mary Bennett

think, in the attacks on sustainable agriculture that leaves the land more productive than when the farmers began.

Monsanto, and the corporations and politicians aligned with this corporation, want to wipe out farmers of small acreages and combine farms into 20,000+ acres to grow corn and soy which Big Ag provides with seeds, pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizer. This industrial agriculture turns the farm owner into an employee because he/she can only grow crops with Big Ag's inputs. This farming in more akin to mining in that it leaves the land impoverished, water fouled, and pollution rampant.

The growing of monoculture crops has an analog with producers of poultry and swine in that the producer is told what kind of buildings, animal feed, antibiotics, etc to use and when Big Ag wants to move on to some place more profitable, the producer is left with polluted land and useless buildings. I am as concerned with the inhumane treatment the animals endure.

I think the advice to buy locally from farmers in your area who plant a variety of crops and farm organically and non-GMO is worth heeding.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

is that in the first year of the Obama first term, Sec. Vilsack and Atty. Gen. Holder conducted a listening tour in rural areas around the country. America's first black Atty. Gen. did not fear or disdain to present himself in front of roomfuls of mostly white farmers to hear their complaints, and, I gather, the two men got an earful. At the conclusion of the tour, the Atty Gen instructed the Justice Dept. to prepare an antitrust suit against Monsanto.

Monsatan moved their top lobbyist to DC to forestall the suit. I don't know the man's name, but he again was in the news last spring for bundling contributions to Killary. Numerous members of congress descended on Holder, demanding that he drop the suit. As far as I could find out, and I did spend some time scouring the internet for stories about this suit, JD got no support from the WH., and the suit eventually was never filed in court. Who knows why? Maybe Obama didn't like the idea that the first Black AG could become a bigger hero than Obama himself.

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Mary Bennett

me and good for them for doing it. Holder dropped the ball when he failed to file an anti-trust suit. He could have been a hero and Obama would have had a hard time firing him once the suit was filed. And, if Holder got fired, his profile would have soared and his political future could have been bright.

Obama was and is a neoliberal; he was good at disguising this fact during the campaign.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

for someone to ask one of the candidates for president "Will you instruct your Atty Gen to revive the anti-trust suit against Monsanto?" No wander some candidates did not want to have to meet voters.

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Mary Bennett

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

attempted to take sides against one of the Powers That Be. Good on him, but too bad it turned out the way it did.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

shaharazade's picture

but essential. I live on a 100x50 square urban lot in Portland OR. I devote most of it to organically grown food. It's hard for me and my husband working in this economy as free lancers (contractors) to keep us housed, clothed and able to pay our taxes. Even gardening on this level takes money and access to resources that are not corporate. It takes community and individual commitment.

I'm lucky I live in a city that still has an active 'permaculture' or grow your own food and smaller organic farming movement. It's not political in a partisan sense as Big Ag controls the Democrat's who make up our city and state overlords are opposed to any challenge both by consumers and growers to the centralized Big Ag. 'scientific' growing of food.

I'm told online and off that I'm anti-science for opposing Monsanto's playing God. 'Who better to play God then us' said their CEO in a special aired by PBS years ago. I also get crap from people who call themselves progressive for not buying into Big Pharma's for profit nightmare of medicine and healthcare. Healing humans and the planet requires people to stop thinking this insanity is progress and infallible scientific correct thought.

In Oregon the Willamette valley was once the bread basket for this state. Now it's a wasteland of suburban sprawl and Big Ag. Lot's of fertile \land used to grow GMO grass turf for golf courses and suburban lawns. Now that's privilege of the worst order. One of the reason's the Clinton administration in the 90's freaked me out so bad was that they did to to try and kill any opposition to organic food growing, both individually and by local regional organic farmers. they were and still are in the bag for Monsanto, factory farmed mead meat and food that is corporate and toxic..

The rest of world has been able to reject GMO's as toxic . What is wrong with so called progressives or Democrat's that insist that this somehow is a white privileged, anti-science boutique concept. Real food, clean water and energy are all important to our survival and the planet we live on. Why believe that 'permaculture' and small farming bio-regions consisting of organically grown food crops are somehow crackpot and not an important issue. It's central to and part of the disaster we as humans are dealing with globally both politically and in our daily lives. It's literally a bread and butter issue.

What you say is true. It's like people cannot separate the political myths perpetuated by the too bigs under the guise of science technology gone bad including Aig Ag. from the reality of the global nightmare on every level all of us face. So I will grow my organic crops small as they are and buy local organic produced regionally.

I'm not rich or privileged barely middle class and just hanging on by an thread. To tell you the truth I save money by refusing to buy from the likes of Wal Mart or any of the Big Ag food whorehouses. outlets. It's really not that hard to do especially if your poor. It might require you to rethink what you eat and how to prepare real food but it is not privileged to reject the crap that Big Ag. calls fit to eat. The old hippie adage comes to mind buy local think global. Good veggies are cheap if you take the time, effort and conscientious to look at what you are spending your privileged pittance on. It's not privilege it's about substance for the earth and people.

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Damnit Janet's picture

More and more people have given up on that.

There are solutions but they just aren't convenient or take some learning. I do NOT know how to put up food or can jellies... yet. Yet. I am learning. But I have learned not to spend money on cheap aka empty food. Empty food no matter how cheap is shit and is just a waste of money and time.

You also have to learn how to live with the seasons. You need to understand living with what nature can provide. Most of us are living beyond what anything, let alone nature, can provide.

But food should not be a commodity in my personal little world. It's a shame that it is and that tonight in Portland, Oregon, people are going to sleep hungry.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

pswaterspirit's picture

This year but I will teach you if you want to learn. I also do mustard, salsa, pickles, and some more advanced stuff like tuna. If you ladies want to friend me on FB I will add you to the co op chat page all about canning and free apples right now. Name is Deborah Nichols.

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Damnit Janet's picture

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

WaterLily's picture

I just started growing our own vegetables this year as well, as organically as I can control, for all of the reasons mentioned above. And I'm eager and willing to learn as much as I can in order to expand this little operation.

I'm scared to death of canning. But I do put up a lot of our own food (until this year, by over-purchasing at the farmer's market) in the form of soups and blanched veggies that go in the freezer. I've mastered refrigerator pickles this year, but there's only so much space in the fridge! Smile

Some day, I'd love to have a few chickens to help with the organic gardening and for the eggs. But I'm a little scared of that, too.

As for the discussion about organic farming and privilege: I'm dismayed to say that here in Burlington, Vermont, this is, indeed a thing. Worse, it's perpetuated by many well-known, small-scale organic farmers themselves. Somehow, they've decided that "exclusiveness" is the goal, and have no qualms about charging $5 for a cherry tomato at the market. Fortunately, there are many farmers who don't share this philosophy, but it drives me batshit crazy when food is treated as a commodity and not a human right. I've been dismayed to see the broad local buy-in to this nonsense, too.

(Sorry, I will now dismount my soapbox!). Smile

Great discussion, btw!

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dandelion, plantain and nettle, all growing in my yard, are edible. I think I might also have burdock, but I want to be sure before I try some.

It is probably not advisable to try eating Queen Anne's Lace, even though it is wild carrot because of the resemblance to hemlock.

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Mary Bennett

shaharazade's picture

and fresh nettles at our supposedly progressive local grocery store. They are both really expensive. Plantain I've been told is a medicinal herb. I need to learn more about Plantain. Nettles are supposed to be good for hay fever and allergies. We drink a lot Traditional Medicinal roasted dandelion root tea, it is expensive. I'm thinking I ought to dig the healthy large roots up and roast my own. We combine the roasted dandelion root with a softer Yoga Egyptian licorice mint tea. I could save a lot of money making my own teas from what the so called weeds that grow in my yard. I have the healthiest organic weeds on the block according to my neighbors.

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of articles on foraging. (Don't worry: I won't link to the original as Google has helpfully archived the articles.) This one on backyard foraging mentions how to identify and use plantains at the very end of the diary proper. Afterwards is a short appendix with web resources for the aspiring forager.

Those interested in reading other diaries on that topic can google "site:dailykos.com free food foraging" for the entire series. 99%rs who have taken The Pledge can find the cached version (like the one I linked) by clicking the dropdown arrow below the main title, next to the permalink, and then "cached" in the popup window.

(sometimes I really miss the "old" DK. What does foraging have to do with liberal politics? but stuff like that is what made it a community.)

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You keep using that word...

I usually check Dave's Garden for plant identification.

There is lots of good information to be had at the gardenweb forums, currently owned and operated by a commercial entity named Hauze. Hauze is a pain to navigate, but the gardenweb posters have among them decades if not centuries of gardening experience.

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Mary Bennett

pswaterspirit's picture

2000 the buy local movement did not exist it is a product of the recession.

The number of small homestead farms has exploded and the diversity of crops is growing along with the support organizations.

Our preserving co op is out of Salem but usually has drops in Portland and Vancouver. We buy a all sorts of local fruit and produce specifically for preserving from various small and medium farms that Are in the valley and very occasionally Northern California. We also get crab, salmon, tuna, pork, chicken, beef and lamb grown and processed locally. In addition we get spices, tea, chocolate, fresh bread, tamales and many many both food and non food Items.

Additionally we trade stuff. I got permission to pick a fig tree this year we ended up with 28 banana boxes full. The Portland Fruit tree project shares 50% of the harvest with the pickers my haul on the two picks I went on was two groups sacks of plums and a big
box of persimmons.

New people Can join the co op in June and again usually in January. You can find the fruit tree project online. I haven't eaten much that wasn't from this state and grown sustainably for 6 years now.

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Sounds like buying clubs and coops are a good way to go.

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Mary Bennett

Thank you for your eloquent testimony. No, it is not an expression of "privilege" to take care of yourself and the earth. The angry ideologues at DK can go take a hike. I think a lot of them just don't want to have to get their own hands dirty doing for themselves, which is why they have placed their hopes on Clinton's promises of patronage.

You being there on the ground in Portland, can you tell us more about why the GMO labeling initiative lost, or did it really lose? I tried to decipher from news reports what was happening. It looked like the biotech bullies moved a lot of out of state personnel and money into OR for a full court press, and just about lost anyway?

Also, would you have heard anything recently about the FBI investigation into some Southern OR activists from Jackson County, I think, who went by dark of night and dug up a field of GMO beets being grown by Syngenta? This was a few years back. I used to live in Josephine County years ago. I very much doubt anyone in Southern OR is into talking to the FBI, especially when it is investigating on behalf of a foreign owned corporation. And, oh, Syngenta refused to disclose locations of other fields it had leased. One could find out, of course, by checking public records. I think American farmland should be declared a critical national resource and not allowed to be owned or leased by foreign governments or companies.

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Mary Bennett

Redstella's picture

That where you get your food IS political. When Nestle is buying up water to resell, and our government ( for pete's sake) is on the side of poison food, the effort to search out and/or grow your clean food becomes a political act.

I agree that gardening and farming are enormously hard work -just processing the harvest is outrageously time consuming. BUT, eating non poisonous food has to be the first priority, and if it takes alot of work to do so, so be it. Until the world changes and we get our priorities straight. Growing and preparing my own food is a worthy activity, one I hope to do for a long long time.

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for those who can't qualify for Medicare and who can't afford to pay for private health insurance. The quality of food you eat and serve becomes a matter of urgent concern. I tried to explain that at DK, to no avail.

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Mary Bennett

shaharazade's picture

health insurance as we can not afford 'health' insurance We eat well and work hard to stay healthy and try real hard to avoid the for profit unhealthy for profit systems that make up our 'economy'. Our next door neighbors who were in their seventies when we moved in 20 years ago and who died in their nineties were fully functional till they passed. When I asked Mike the gardener who helped me grow organic and was a gardening mentor on my small plot their secret of such a long and productive life he said we eat healthy food,are physically active and stay away from doctors. I have to say that's some good advise. They both were not 'privileged ' they were working people one worked at a hardware store and the other was a bookkeeper for small local businesses. They were both FDR Democrat's who did not understand the freaking yuppies who took over the neighborhood and called themselves progressives.

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shaharazade's picture

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It can't be said enough how important your diet is when it comes to health . I learned the hard way, heart attack and by-pass surgery at age 51. Mainly due to diet according to my cardiologist, but I am lucky i'm still here many my age and younger don't survive heart attacks. So fool me once, now my wife and I will gladly sacrifice other things for a better diet. We also have a small garden and it is time consuming but the payoff is well worth it. For those that don't realize it our food supply is very political and is just as important as climate change and war, as it is closely related to both.

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food supply business. Over fatted and sugared food is a health hazard but the profits count for more than the kids' health.

MD's used to say that they could look at a 6 year old and tell you whether the child had been fed a healthy diet or not - probably still can. Malnourishment impacts a person into adulthood.

It's a sad fact that Americans spend more money at restaurants than at supermarkets. And, we know what kind of food is available at fast food outlets and a diet based on fast food is not a healthy one.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Wink's picture

less than $30 K can spend most of our hard earned on "better food," or we can pay the rent. We seldom can do both. Better food, good food is expensive. Veggies cost almost as much as beef. We live on a crap diet becuz Monsanto has as their motto, "fuck the poor."

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

thanatokephaloides's picture

Most of us earning less than $30 K can spend most of our hard earned on "better food," or we can pay the rent. We seldom can do both.

Make that $60K unless you're coupled. (Even more disgusting.)

Most of us who make less than $30K/year/adult in a household containing at least two breadgetters face another problem, too: no access to the land. The housing that eats up so much of our time and effort-making capacity is nearly always an apartment, where we live stacked onto huge numbers of other households like fucking cordwood. The food such people could grow under these conditions, even if they did manage to do it, is no better for you than Monsatan's crap, and far more expensive into the bargain. In many cases, in fact, it is Monsatan's crap. The extra inputs necessary to get potted plants to grow, much less produce, are usually miles from organic; and the plants which can produce food while restrained to pots and/or planters are almost always GMOs.

The "high density" advocates are full of la caca de vaca. If humans want their health, they need to dwell on land that's theirs and nobody else's. Even if they don't grow their own food right now. John B. Calhoun's work with overcrowded mice is instructive here.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

the reason for high density is to keep sprawl from consuming all the farmland, and all the wilderness, which would not be good for us. But neither is it good for us to live packed together like sardines.

Back in the 80s, people still talked about overpopulation as a problem. Then some people said that thinking overpopulation was a problem was racist. And then the problem wasn't talked about anymore.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

You're both right, actually. The reason for high density is to keep sprawl from consuming all the farmland, and all the wilderness, which would not be good for us. But neither is it good for us to live packed together like sardines.

There's only one solution for that, and you hit it right on the head:

Back in the 80s, people still talked about overpopulation as a problem. Then some people said that thinking overpopulation was a problem was racist.

Those "people" were, in large part, cult victims. They belonged to religious cults (in every sense of that word) which maintain that the Population Ponzi is somehow exempt from the same mathematics that applies to all other Ponzi schemes. Such cults oppose abortion under any and all circumstances while also opposing birth control of all kinds, LGBTQ sexual expression, and even celibacy.

We need to talk about overpopulation. And keep talking about it until we actually see success in changing it -- without war and plague doing the job for us. We and our Planet need to address this at the only real place it can be addressed -- at the sexual level where production of humans takes place.

Whether certain cultists like it or not.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

With apologies for dragging the current election into this commentary, but can anyone imagine what $$Hillary, or a similar candidate of the DNC machine would say if some dirty liberal progressive anti-American socialist hippie were to gently suggest humans should have less children?

I'm guessing the accusations of white privilege and racism would be ear-shattering.

Gotta maintain that winning coalition of corporate fascists and captured demographic groups, or they might find themselves out of govt and forced to do something hard for a living.

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shaharazade's picture

have community gardens? In SE Portland they are scattered throughout the city neighborhoods. I've read about community gardening in large urban areas including NY. People who do not have access to land can get a plot close to wherever they live. Maybe you could start a community garden project in your area.

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I have searched for months to find rentals where I might be allowed to have a garden.

When I cant afford organic, which has been most of my adult life, I buy the most basic ingredients and cook at home. My kids hated it, why can't we have chipshotdogspackagedcookies? but they didn't get sick very often. One of my adult daughters to this day won't drink lemonade because that was the only beverage besides milk I would buy.

Where I live now in upstate NY, veges are fairly cheap, as in 2-3$ a bundle at farmer's markets. In CA, OMG, the farmer's markets were strictly regulated to favor commercial producers, and restricted to only one or two per county. A non-profit that was trying to teach at risk young people to grow veges using the French intensive biodynamic method couldn't break into the local farmer's market because, the county official in charge told me, he had to restrict competition to maintain prices. Talk about "free" markets!!

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Mary Bennett

riverlover's picture

I am near Ithaca, do not eat out much at all, cook for one. That means I cook for two or three days of one meal. I have yet to adjust to one-ness, after 6 years. And just had a gall bladder attack, so have to adjust my diet again. I have plenty of space, 20 acres, but it's all in trees. So shaded that I can't use the former raised beds (now daughter calls them giant graves). So I passively make O2 and my land is water recharge for Cascadilla creek. So be it.

So I grow trees, and do not harvest much. Mushrooms. Dried and in the freezer. Organic. Learning wild edibles. It is difficult to pioneer in woodland. I am experimenting, on a limited budget. I want to do limited harvest (in frozen winter) and bring in zone 7 trees, to fast-adapt the woodland. I am budget-limited and tool-limited for planting large rootballs.

As a former plant biologist I do not fear Monsanto, it's a name and some lobbyists. A symbol. And I am not fearful of GMOs. I have made GMO plants and maintained GMO mice (disliked latter). My plants were for research, not production.
I hope I do not go on your "distrust" list.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

"A name and some lobbyists" have managed to bring somewhere around 700 lawsuits against American, and, famously, Canadian, farmers for patent violations, when the farmers had not even bought roundup ready products? BTW, "some lobbyists" in the Midwest were overheard describing their activities as "rural cleansing". Oh, and "some lobbyists" have been buying up seed cleaning operations throughout the Midwest so that non-GMO farmers would not be able to get their corn and soybean crops cleaned for market.

"Some lobbyists" managed to get the DOJ to shut down its' antitrust suit against the "name and some lobbyists"?

Bayer is spending how many gazillion bucks to buy the "name and some lobbyists"?

I will say that your comments are a lot more sophisticated than I usually see. This time I managed to attract the A team.

Anyhow the POINT, which your post obscures, is that glyphosate is a dangerous chemical, worse than DDT, in my humble non-scientific opinion--I am a citizen, I get to have opinions--which has now spread throughout our air, soil and water. Genetic technology may have some beneficial applications, but IT NEEDS TO BE REGULATED for the common good, just like nuclear technology. No one gets to build a nuclear reactor in their back yard, and no one should be able to release GE organisms into the environment without thorough testing and review by scientists who are not paid by the company which developed the organisms.

Monsanto is more than feared, it is HATED around the world, and with good reason.

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Mary Bennett

riverlover's picture

There is much fear and loathing about GMOs. Yes.

145 as of 2014. All patent infringement cases. http://naturalsociety.com/monsanto-sued-farmers-16-years-gmos-never-lost/

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Whether science is good or bad depends on who's controlling the research. Under this system, that means paying for it.

Monsanto is advancing technology with no concern whatsoever for the well-being of humans on this planet or the food supply. They invented the terminator gene, and frankly, I don't care what their justification was for doing so; anyone who is willing to use science to that end is a fucking monster engaging in a power grab. Putting a sterilizing agent in pollen and setting it free to blow in the wind should be considered an act of war. It would be different if they could engineer something that would only sterilize Monsanto plants. But they didn't. I bet they didn't even try. But let's say they did try & found it couldn't be done. Under no circumstances should anyone ever insert a sterilizing agent into pollen and set it free into the environment, where it can sterilize whatever food crops it comes into contact with. At the very least, that is a gesture of sociopathic indifference to consequences; at the worst, it's a step in an attempt to monopolize global food supplies.

Monsanto supporters generally say, at this point "But they stopped doing it!"
They never should have started doing it. Even a layman could see the terrible consequences that could ensue, and these people are plant scientists.

Having read your comments with pleasure, riverlover, I don't believe for a second that your work as a plant scientist was, or could ever be, part of something that heinous.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

It's about who is trustworthy, and who is not.

Always a good question to ask when considering technological advancement.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

shaharazade's picture

I have tried it both ways and I actually can live on a better diet for less then buying crap food. The poor are fucked but that is no reason to pay for crap food that is nor even cheerer then veggies. What utter crap your spouting here. Poor people may have less access to better food outlets but veggies even organic ones are not cheaper then beef. I can bu two large bags of organic veggies for about 20$. N\Maybe you can find crap food and factory fared beef cheaper but this is no excuse to give up and day we have no choice. Monsanto and the government say fuck the [poor so why buy their crap food anymore then buying their crap politics. Better food and a crap diet is not any cheaper then actually buying healthy food is. Just like politcs if you buy the crap their selling your going to get screwed and unhealthy.

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Wink's picture

$10 a pound steak, $1.25 apples... there is damn little cheap food these days.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

"Better food and a crap diet is not any cheaper then actually buying healthy food is."

Utter nonsense. Actual poor people, who live on tiny food budgets can afford very little fresh produce, and would never think of spending the equivalent of an entire days' food budget on 150-250 calories of organic produce.
If you can buy 2 bags of organic veggies for $20, then you are one lucky SOB, because in my city, which is serviced by 7 different grocery stores, you could maybe buy enough organic veggies to make up 1-2 meals, assuming of course we're not talking about bags full of potatoes.

After reading your comment, I am forced to reconsider the idea that there is a strong element of privilege in the 'organic' movement. Your scorn for people who can't afford to eat the 'correct' food shows a clear lack of empathy and life experience.

Not everyone can afford the 'rich people's food' that is now replacing more affordable choices in 'better' grocery stores. I guess the poors will have to self-relegate to the chain stores built on accepting EBT cards and pensioner dollars.

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shaharazade's picture

and your wrong. Maybe I'm not as poor as the really desperate inner city poor but as a small business free lance contractor some years we live on 30,000$ for two people I'm actually poor. So do not think I'm some trendy foodie who can afford to eat healthy and scorns real peoples problems with access to healthy food . How fucking insulting. Do you know the price of Kale, Broccoli, carrots, onions, beets, yams, greens in season or squash per pound? I got food stamps when I was young and still ate healthy. Better food is often cheaper.

Last Wednesday I went to our close by local co-op's farmers market and spent 25$ and got 2 bags of produce. Today is a week later, and I have used the last Wednesday's produce every day.I still have beets and onions and about 6 potatoes left. So tomorrow I will send another 20$ or so for the next week. I do not buy much meat and no packaged, processed or prepared food. I buy seasonal which makes it cheaper. I buy whole grains from the bulk sections at my co-op along with beans rice and other legumes. The so called 'better' local grocery store I use for everyday staples takes EBT cards, food stamps, and Wick cards and gives me a 10% discount on Wednesdays for being an old coot. My co-op does the same.

Your comment is insulting. It is what this essay was taking about. I'm well aware of how difficult it is to find and buy food that's healthy and affordable. I'm saying that eating healthy is not always a matter of money. I have a friend who uses the a local food bank as she's really dirt poor. She told me she get's the good healthy stuff organic because most people do not want it. Why? Perhaps they have no place to prepare it as their homeless or lack the knowledge of how to prepare whole food. Believe me I may be privileged but I see what the big Ag. and the chains like Wal Mart have done to the Actual poor.

Maybe you should direst your anger at the Big Box grocers and Big Ag instead of people who are trying to survive eating the shit they produce and sell. The real disgrace is that people are so poor they cannot even afford to eat corporate crap. There is nothing wrong with trying to promote health eating in our communities especially the ones that do not have access to decent healthy food. Privileged my ass is that you DO?

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CambridgePulsar1919's picture

LOL at "insulting".
You called another commenter's absolutely valid comment "BS", and yet you're insulted? Pfft.

You talk a lot about your local co-op. You do realize how rare food co-ops are, right? Maybe you assume that the rest of the USA is just like your area?

And not only do I know the cost of fresh produce, I know it far better than you. I've seen the trend towards pricey 'organic' produce, and the incredible wastage created by snotty pretentious shoppers who will spend $2 each for green bell peppers, because they're shrinked together in packs of 2 for $3.79. Or 'organic' cucumbers selling for $2.49 a piece, rotting and moldy in days because of the condensate inside their shrinkwrap. I've seen the snobs with more money than sense buying 8 oz. bottles of water with 'organic' lemon juice added, for a paltry $3.89 per bottle.
I've seen the dirt-covered, pesticide-tainted, factory-farmed crap that 'the poors' can afford pushed-out of the stores completely, and now they are forced to buy overpriced, freezer-burnt crap of questionable origin and quality, because they have no other choice.
Choice.
Something your comment makes clear you have.

I can assure you that the majority of the USA is not like where you live when it comes to the availability of inexpensive, fresh organic produce.

I'm well aware what the essay was talking about, and as I've already said, you've helped confirm the notion that a certain percentage of people involved in the growth of organics are indeed privileged, patronizing snobs.

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wasn't about the organic industry, it was about home gardening and, in general, home production.

Nice misdirection, Cambridge.

Let me put this in very clear terms. I assert that people have a right of subsistence. I assert that no commercial, non-governmental entity has or should have a right or ability to impose its' own private taxes on citizens. (Including insurance companies. I think that drivers with clean records who drive minimal distances shouldn't have to buy auto insurance.) I don't care if the entity is Safeway or a roadside fruit stand. If the enterprise is so incompetent that me growing a few bushels of tomatoes is going to put them out of business, they better find some other way to make livings.

The alleged snobbish behavior of some buyers at upscale markets is no responsibility of mine or anyone else who responded to my thread.

Keeping someone else's clients in business is no part of my responsibilities. They want a piece of my cash, they need to be offering something I want or need, not a half baked version of some product I can make better myself.

What needs to happen across the country is housing prices need to come down. A lot. If you can't abide the thought of restricting immigration, then we need rent controls across the country, not just in Manhattan and Berkley, and we need high taxes on absentee ownership and a ban on foreign ownership of American land and housing.

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Mary Bennett

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

My original comment wasn't to you, or about your essay, it was in direct response to what another commenter here wrote in response to yet another commenter here who wrote about food affordability.

Please, try to follow along. It's not all about you or your essay.

And congrats on proving me right about patronizing, privileged jerks.

Feel free to respond, but given your antagonistic tone, I won't be reading any more of your pontificating diatribes.

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I must have hit a nerve somewhere.

As for being dogmatic, I write out of my own experience of having been desperately poor for many years myself.

Cambridge, kindly take your agenda somewhere else please.

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Mary Bennett

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

costs--though that can be a concern, depends on local conditions--as it is an issue of access.

Not everyone is within easy distance of a community garden or a farmer's market. Being able to get to one isn't a given; not everybody has the time or gas budget to be able to do so. There is a problem here, and people are being shoved toward eating, not so much meat (unless you count catfood) as really crappy canned goods of all kinds, and not all of them can get out of this bind. That's all true.

However, that's an argument for more community gardens, local urban agriculture, and farmer's markets. Also for more food co-ops.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

legislation or ordnances which allow renters to maintain gardens--with reasonable restrictions, of course such as pay for your own water and don't create a public nuisance.

I understand that last spring in CA, Gov. Brown signed legislation doing just that, among other things.

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Mary Bennett

at rentiers who are helping themselves to 50-75% of folk's income from all sources for rent. Then add on utilities, and there ain't much left.

I have no intention of telling others how to spend their own money or what, where or how to eat. I do expect the same forbearance from them. It they want MickeyD, fine for them, but they can stop grouching online about "privileged" back yard gardeners.

Like I said in the OP, from time out of mind, it has been understood and accepted that the best way for the poor, which I have been for many years, to ameliorate their situation is to produce whatever they can at home instead of spending scarce coin or cash on things they can do for themselves at home at far less expense. I couldn't afford organic for many years either, unless I was lucky enough to come across some overstock organic product at a discount store. I became an inveterate reader of labels. I bought the can of beans which said "ingredients: beans, salt" in preference to the can which listed a raft of chemicals I never heard of. I bought basics, flour, milk (no RSBT), eggs, pasta, bulk parmesan, and such, which, while they would not have been produced organically, at least had not had extra chemicals added in processing. I sent kids to school with sandwiches made from whole grain bread, and homebaked cookies. When I was able to rent houses instead of apartments, I became an organic vege gardener.

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Mary Bennett

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

I have no problem with what you wrote. I'm well aware of what drives people towards distressingly small food budgets, and that should be something that's well understood on a site full of progressives.

I'm guilty of getting annoyed when the attitude of some whom I personally consider privileged seems to be that 'I do it, so you can to'. Um, no.
It seems odd that some of us on the left have suddenly foregone discussing the tragedy of 'food deserts', and started sneering at the less privileged because they can't afford to purchase organic produce, and certainly are in no position to have a backyard, much less a backyard garden. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but I've seen it elsewhere, and the attack on another commenter here for making a similar point to mine drives it home.

I think there's a larger opportunity to talk about eating better on a budget, without perhaps unintentionally shaming those that don't have the same opportunities and access to quality food that you or I may or may not have.

I wasn't spoiling for a fight with my earlier comment, but I was appalled at the self-centered nature of the commenter who called "BS" in such a rude fashion, and I'm not one to let such things go.

Peace.

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children with autism. He told a my daughter that in every home he visits, the diet is fast food and overprocessed prepackaged food.

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Mary Bennett

I know it does not prove cause and effect, but circumstantially it is telling and in certain cases, circumstantial evidence is admissible in court.

Is the fast food industry hiding something like the tobacco companies did?

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Damnit Janet's picture

How many houses does he go in to a day/week? For how long has he been doing this? What other items were always in every house?

Not my house, we eat and support mostly local and/or organic. We eat very well. And my 24 year old autistic son is a bit of a foodie.

It's not a fact. It's an observation, at best.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Damnit Janet's picture

My son is autistic and we do not eat crap food.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

PriceRip's picture

          . . . to the "implied" blaming the "victim" but outrage clouds my brain. I have seen this sort of attack "up close and personal" far too many times to be silent, but still the words that I think are so very harsh.

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Damnit Janet's picture

"Refridgerator Mommies" theory wasn't too long ago.

I was attacked when they thought my son was deaf and possibly having seizures. List out everything you can remember eating in a 9 month period. Everything centers on, "what did you do to as a parent to create this disability?"

No one knows. And I know that I sometimes wake up wondering if I did something, anything. But I try to remember to focus on the fact that I have to work on fighting for his rights. Yeah, sometimes my feelings get a bit rattled and even hurt but it's not important in the long run. I just want my son to be the best he can be and to be safe.

I've been through the gauntlet though. I've been asked, "Had you known?" types of questions. And the "poor you dear" by people who think my son is a burden. He's not a burden, just a ton of hard work.

But the assaults... they still happen. The first wasn't the last: After coming home from a long time at UCSF's third floor... not a ward you want to be... I took my kids the next day to a park. My son was stimming ontop of the slide. AKA he was running his hands across his face towards the clouds...

A woman was there for a lunch break - smoking - got very annoyed and irritated. She declared...

"This is a public park. This is a place for NORMAL children."

I shit you not. That's what she said. There was also one other person with a kid there. A grandmother with a child who had Down Syndrome.

I left. I grabbed my kids and bolted. I was tired and needed my energy to find out if my kid was even terminal. I left the fight to the Grandmother who was winning it. But I never backed down again in person. Not ever.

Tonight - the kids have the flu. I'm too busy trying to catch up laundry at the start of the work week...

But to see that maybe some guy who helps out think every parent feeds their kids sugar and processed food.

We were one of the first to go vegan for a test with autism and food allergies. We know how some food make some things worse for him. And we know how food should be healthy not empty.

But thank you so much. I came back before I went off to bed.

My son asked me to make a superfood smoothie for him to consume tomorrow. Biggrin He loves them.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

that you and your family have been subjected to such harassment.

I am afraid that if it were me, I would become very rude.

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Mary Bennett

elenacarlena's picture

but I would have loved to have seen her face if you'd responded, "this park is full of normal children and you could be killing them by blowing cancer fumes in their faces".

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

The only people or entities I am blaming are agribiz and their sycophants, mouthpieces and enablers who decided they were entitled to get rich quick by compromising other people's health.

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Mary Bennett

Deja's picture

Have you ever watched the documentary Sweet Misery?

After watching it, I wondered about the possible connection between aspartame (Rumsfeld on the private industry side, and Reagan cleaning FDA house upon his election, then poof it's magically found safe for human consumption in humans/liquids despite repeated indescrepencies between research data and "reports" submitted to the FDA), and the startling upswing of cases of autism.

The documentary, and pre-Reagan FDA findings saw startling neurological effects in primates, not to mention some horrible responses experienced by curious humans involved at the time. What I wondered is, could the consumption of aspartame by pregnant women adversely affect their unborn children on a neurological level.

Have you seen it? And what do you think? Also, I am in no way blaming, or suspecting that you might have caused anything. If my unscientific curiosity about cause and effect ever turn out to be true, the culprits are quite clear, imo.

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Damnit Janet's picture

but will look it up.

Sugar is quite toxic. We are better with our diet than some I think. But we do like some sugar but we seem to use it as a dessert item and not a staple, every day item.

Heck my kid doesn't even drink caffeine products or sodas. He rarely drinks some pub brewed organic rootbeer when we find it. He's very into organics. YET... he will eat anything at the local hockey arena he volunteers at if the other guys are eating, too. But that is about 4 times a month and they don't always eat together.

Moderation in our eating.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

made by one person. I don't know how many patients he was seeing, but I would guess no more than about 50. In addition, I think I have read that there is a whole range of conditions labeled 'autistic'.

Sure, likely a lot of people's experience is different, but that is no reason to suppress the observation.

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Mary Bennett

featheredsprite's picture

but the autism may be draining so much of the caregiver's time and energy that he/she simply can't cook real food from scratch.

Or both.

It's hard to tell sometimes.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

I think a number of different conditions get labeled 'autism', or so I have heard.

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Mary Bennett

pswaterspirit's picture

People can be helpful. We usually manage to live fairly good lives on almost nothing.

People who are monetarily challenged could benefit from a food Co op. Groups that get together and buy in bulk at wholesale prices. For instance I just picked up 50 pounds of local organic pasture raised pork for my kids at $1.35 a pound the reason for the good price is my Co op bought just slightly over a ton. So fresh the pig was still alive when we put our funds down to pay for it. I buy local almost everything because we are seeking out suppliers buying in quantities large enough to get pretty good wholesale prices. We pay 8% of our order total to Co op fees to cover expenses. It is run by two retired ladies who get a good discount on their food and a small salary to enhance their retirement.
This form of community can also include a ready made market for small business to get started. Every penny of my son's psychology degree came from his share of the produce sold from our farm to a large store front Co op in Olympia, WA. Our Co op has a baker, a tamale and tortilla maker, an egg roll maker and much more. These are not full time operations but they do provide extra income. I am currently smoking 650 pounds of fish that I aquired fresh from the boat. Every bit save the 20 pounds I will eat over the next year is already sold. That with the 3 runs of tuna I did and the sausage I will do after the beef cattle we ordered are butchered will pay my property taxes on my farm.
I think the idea is to be as self sufficent as possible. In many cities it may be possible for people to do this on a neighborhood scale have a community garden, to develop a Co op, to create a Permaculture park or any number of other things. Anything is possible.

Actual employment and business opportunities arise out of this. Jobs are created. There are neighborhoods in Boston and Wisconsin that have started community development Co ops people buy shares the money is invested in vacant or run down commercial buildings that are then revitalized and rented to small businesses.

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Now, that is impressive.

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Mary Bennett

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

There's more value in your comment than the last 50 comments I've made put together.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Damnit Janet's picture

more and more community gardens. Even some apartment buildings have created communal gardens.

It can be done. Just needs the will of the people.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Damnit Janet's picture

http://www.foodnotlawns.com/ lots of good info and even for those who don't have lawns.

We need to start growing our own food. Some is easy, some isn't. But when we look around, we find others are also searching. Then we start community gardens. We eat together.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

pswaterspirit's picture

Business too. Did you know that 5 guys in Gresham provide every mushroom in Portland? They have an awesome run down old set of chicken barns on the old highway. Started out 8 years ago in a 1 car garage. No chemicals except maybe residual in the coffee grounds they use. Learned tons touring their facility.

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that the lawns were using more water than the swimming pools.

Commercial buildings have timed automatic watering systems. I have seen sprinklers going in the rain. Unfreaking believable.

Thank you for the link.

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Mary Bennett

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

elenacarlena's picture

in as much detail as would be optimal. Please see http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Jill_Stein_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

Housing is a human right. From the link:

We will expand rental and home ownership assistance, create ample public housing, and capital grants to non-profit developers of affordable housing until all people can obtain decent housing at no more than 25% of their income.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

is what we need to be hearing from a presidential candidate.

I hope she emphasized that part of her platform in her appearances.

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Mary Bennett

bought this spring, along with cilantro, parsley, beefeater tomato, all for $10.00 at Home Depot. All are organic. Replanted these in bigger pots with organic soil mixed with humus and sand. No fertilizer used. Had fresh herbs all summer, about eight gallons of yellow pear tomatoes (even my dog loves them) from that one plant. The beefeater tomatoes were mislabeled and yielded crap tomatoes, which were invaded by some kind of pest and are wormy. Of course, I have about .60 of an acre and a sunny spot, so growing these was easy. But, even living in a city or rural apartment, if there's a sunny window, access to a rooftop, or just a grow light, you can grow microgreens and herbs, which are full of first-class nutrients. I've even seen websites with instructions on how to regrow certain leftover produce, like potatoes, celery, carrots, onions. If you live near an Aldi store, great food bargains can be had, and they are going increasingly organic. But if you don't have access to a car, the initial setup can be difficult, but not impossible. And lastly, you need some upfront cash to invest in soil, lighting, pots and seeds.

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on your successful gardening.

I do lots of wintersowing, and I have found that the biggest expense is potting soil.

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Mary Bennett