Don't Shame ME! Part the Uno

(This was actually inspired by the sewer that my facebook feed has become, and it just sort of started as a reply and then turned into a full on stand alone rant, so after initially posting this at WayoftheBern, I'm cross-posting it here)

So, you want our vote for Hillary? Here's what NOT to do:

1. Stop the Shame Campaign! Stop it NOW! It might help you feel more pure of mind and spirit, but it's counter productive and as likely to push us further away as bring us around. If you think we're not supporting Hillary to punish the DNC, how is an attempt to shame us not going to harden our resolve to not vote for Hillary to punish you too? Save shaming for your dog. We're not your dog.

2. Stop with the constant OMFG TRUMP WE"RE ALL GONNA DIE!! If negative advertising worked on independents we wouldn't be independents, we'd be Republicans or Democrats, as it seems the only thing either side stands for any more is "We're not them!" We're aware that Trump and the Clintons, as are their children, are close family friends, and Trump wouldn't be running if not for Bill's encouragement. We're also aware that Trump is playing a stereotypical villain for the cameras to get his name repeated for free and as often as possible. And you're playing right along and doing the job for him and now he's withing striking distance of actually pulling off an upset. It's how he won the GOP primary and it's how you'll help him win in November. Stop it NOW! When people are pissed off at establishment politics the negatives you assign him become positives to those who normally sit out politics (50% of the pop.), and then you wonder how and why anyone votes for "these people." Here, feel free to borrow my mirror.

3. Stop with the Hillary Sainthood re-branding. This works with the choir, but we're not your choir. Her negatives aren't just the product of some GOP manufactured witch-hunt. We see the Late-to-the-party appearance on so many issues of importance, we see the contradictions between her public words and her behind the scenes actions, we see her coziness with financial and corporate elites and the pouring of foreign government donations into her family foundation, and we know enough about politics to understand that one doesn't amass a huge family fortune without dancing with those who pad their accounts. Don't insult our intelligence by rallying against one party when they do this but defend the practice when it's your team whose pockets are being lined. Politics may be a binary team sport to you, but it isn't to us.

3a. Yes, it would be a relief to finally have a woman as president, but if we were into identity politics we wouldn't be independents, we would be Republicans or Democrats. We don't look at Clarence Thomas and think, "Well, at least we have an African-American on the Supreme Court." We view issues over checked-boxes, and we see Hillary as a Trojan Horse foisted upon us by elite financial and political special interests who want to think this will mask serious misgivings.

So, how DO you win our vote then?

1. Sincerely want our vote. You think you do, you say you do, but you don't act like it. Too much of what you throw at us is projections of superiority wrapped in condescension and not a serious effort to engage. It's a serious effort to make yourselves feel better. That's not wanting our vote, that's wanting our submission. Also, too much of what you throw at us is cartoon caricatures of how awful Trump is. To be fully honest, we're sick to death of hearing about Trump. Always have been. We're fully capable of not liking Trump just fine without all the over the top and non-stop TRUMPTRUMPTRUMP fear-mongering drum-beating, as if we need the constant reminder. We don't. Besides, if you were that afraid of Trump you wouldn't have given us Hillary when there were stronger candidates against him.

2. Get us to the polls first, worry about our vote for Hillary second. Independents are much more likely to vote FOR someone than against someone. Independents are issue voters. Without deification or shame or guilt, what are the non-identity politics issues in play that matter to a broad swath of the population who feel shut out, who don't feel politics is relevant to their lives? Are there any other issues besides abortion and gay rights (not that there's anything wrong with those)?

If not the Dems are in trouble, and all the shaming and accusations of "privilege" (as if you're not the one so privileged as to risk everything for your support of Hillary?) and fear-mongering in the world won't fix it.

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Thumb's picture

None of this is to suggest I could be persuaded to vote for Hillary. Not going to happen. I had finally had enough of all the Shame on You posts flying around, as if to suggest Trump winning would be my fault for not falling in line.

I tell these people, "If stopping Trump was so important you would have supported the candidate with the best chance to stop him, but it wasn't and you didn't so don't blame me now."

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

kharma's picture

but I could be persuaded to vote down-ballot if the so called progressives in the Democratic party stopped being ass-clowns. No, if Trump wins, it isn't because of Sanders nor his supporters. It is because of the corruption, the weighted-scale, the 'bernie bros' and other slanders that I realize that I have just been dancing with a prettier devil.
The Hillary folks have pulled all the stops and now they have the nomination...if she loses, it's all on them.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

riverlover's picture

I am in full agreement. Except I consider any human running for elected office under the Democratic banner a member of the enemy. FSM knows I never served our country overseas, I did in a strange manner here, receiving federal funding for my paycheck for 35 years. Never again. I am now on Social Security in part, due to my husband's unfortunate death. I will not be a widow sucked into a false publicity campaign for our Homeland.

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SnappleBC's picture

I have quite a few solidly documented concerns about Hillary including things like her PACs, her distortions and outright lies (including those of her surrogates), her part in the lies told about the first Libyan war, her quite openly aggressive interventionist polices, etc. etc.

All someone would have to do is present clear and hard evidence that I'm wrong about those things. I don't know how they'd do that because in the vast majority of things I think about Hillary I've already gone back to original source material and/or multiple foreign news sources. But I'm always open to hearing new facts and revising my opinions.

Of course, long before I'd bet on someone succeeding in doing that I'd be betting on finding the winning lottery ticket in the gutter.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

detroitmechworks's picture

very heavily to those Democrats who see the left support just evaporating...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i28UEoLXVFQ]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Raggedy Ann's picture

No way, no how. Nea

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Thumb's picture

No way will I ever vote for Hillary, but saying that only makes them more insane, and I wanted to get them to settle the fuck down. It actually had an effect. My follow up post (Part the Duex) covers this.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

What makes them insane is hearing just how empty and unconvincing their propaganda points are. These propaganda points are dear to them, and they regard them as utterly convincing. When people they know like us tell them their favorite arguments are utter bullshit, and their latest political crush just isn't that into them, it's approximately equivalent to telling a five-year-old there's no Santa Claus. The tantrums are completely predictable, as is the backsliding when all the holiday advertising and all the other kids tell them No, Santa Claus is totally real, and don't believe anybody who tells you otherwise.

Crises of faith are hard and scary times. People who precipitate them are not welcomed and not thanked. Good for you for getting them to stop stomping their feet and holding their breath. Can't wait to read how you did it.

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riverlover's picture

What’s after the #DemExit? or How to Bust, Part One
Jol Devitro·Tuesday, August 2, 2016
Help! I can no longer feel the Bern!
Ever since that fateful joint “Stronger Together” rally where Bernie capitulated to the monster in the room and endorsed Hillary Clinton for President, I just can’t feel the Bern anymore.
It didn’t make any sense to a lot of us who have lived on the bread and butter and sweet wine and thick pot haze of Bernie’s inspirational words and ideals, his credible articulation of truth to power that woke up a good portion of America.
God knows I love the man with all my heart; he captured it as no living human ever has before, just by caring about other human beings and making that his life’s work; just by working for the greater good all his life instead of pursuing personal wealth; just by engaging ethically with the institutions that are set up to shape our civilization; just by being Bernie.
I was Bern or Bust, so now what!?
I would have gone along with Bernie anywhere Bernie wanted to go, or so I thought. His endorsement of Hillary blew that intention out of the water and left me rudderless awhile. I’d declared myself #BernOrBust, so now that the Bern had taken himself off the table, what was I to do?
Obviously to bust was the immediate imperative, but what did that even mean? Aside from rhetorical flourish, what does it mean to bust? To Bust or not to Bust is not the first question; the first thing one must figure out is what does it mean to bust?
Since I have given up any old sentimental attachment to Democrats despite my long history of supporting them, the party now holds no appeal for me whatsoever, in spite of Bernie’s having built a Democratic platform that’s a progressive paradigm for the ages, surely a stunning and satisfying achievement in the mind of a man who has spent 40 years under the hood of democracy tinkering with the nuts and bolts of legislation.
For us kids under 45, though, his achievement in platforming lacks the drama and spectacle that we, the children, had called for and demanded, the reason we’d sent Bernie all our hard-earned, $7-minimum-wage-earned money and brought our friends out to rallies and made canvassing calls and hosted phone banks and barnstorming events for the whole past year. We wanted more than this apparently forced capitulation; we wanted a victory.
But that victory was stolen from us, as time, in its never-ending rounding out, continues to illustrate in ever more sickening detail. It feels now that the only ethical thing for we, the children, to do, is to Bust.
Why Bust? Why not fall in line behind Hillary and support the “lesser of two evils”? First, it’s a fallacy that she’s the lesser of two evils; that’s not necessarily true. In my opinion, Hillary is more corrupt, more deeply tied in to the oligarchy’s multifarious tendrils and the war machine, more incentivized to go on making war and selling U.S. weapons to the world and raping the earth in every conceivable way, than Trump is. Trump would be relatively isolationist, I think, and while it would be horrible to have an ignorant and insensitive and misinformed president, it would be worse to have a war criminal and known sponsor of world terror, which it is known that Mrs. Clinton is.
So busting is tactical. It seems at first glance that “to bust” would indicate the throwing of some kind of tantrum, if not an actual chair; or even an explosion, perhaps even a threat of harm to self or others; but it could also be a positive bust, like a Big Bang kind of bust! That would be a good bust, a bust that could inseminate a whole new era in American politics.
It's what my kind of person in America--which is to say a "poor"--ought to be doing right now (so says the feeling down deep in my bones): rejecting the corrupt corporate-owned 2-party binary at this critical moment in time.
So that’s what I want my bust to be...a revolutionary, world-changing bust. Once that decision is settled on, one must ask oneself what color one’s bust is. In my opinion, the best color for one’s bust is Green.
It is a very funny thing that we are told that a vote for anyone other than the two corporate-powered parties' candidates is a thrown-away vote. What I'm proposing is that people vote their consciences, hardly an excessive line; however, in this ass-backwards country where ignorance is inculcated in places learning ought to be, this position is taken by most folks to be not only mad radicalism but downright civil disobedience! People are taught that it's heresy to act in defiance of recent polling. This is how we ended up with the two biggest shitheels on the continent as our major parties' offerings.

As for me, whether you want to call it civil disobedience or just plain spoiled brattiness, I'm in all the way. This is the time to stomp our feet and refuse the poisoned gruel being offered to us. They do not yet put guns to our heads and tell us who we must vote for; instead they change our votes through ES&S voting machines that George W. Bush railroaded into most of the states with his insidious Help America Vote Act. This is the main thing we need to address. We need the eyes of the world on us, covering the fact that our Emperor has no clothes and our Democracy has no votes, by which I mean the will of the people is at every turn being suppressed and manipulated and, as was the case with Bernie Sanders, buried altogether.
In 2016, a viable third party by and for the people is not only possible; it's our only hope to save our broken American democracy, our broken and miserable people, and to get us all focused on reforming human practices in time to avert major climate catastrophe. #GreenOrDie has become my mantra, because it feels obvious to me, and most other kids under 45, that it's exactly that dire.
It is sick and incomprehensible to me that so many have been conditioned to believe that they must vote for this wretched, stinking carcass because the other side has produced something even more vile.
Did you know that the Clintons set Donald Trump up to run, exactly for this purpose--to give Hillary an opponent she could beat. Only they far overestimated Hillary's popularity and the public's willingness to swallow that big dick of Clinton corruption, even as a snail trail of rank corruption visible from the heavens is daily being leaked and revealed to us.
Only the willfully blind and brainwashed (for the Clinton's are spellcasters who use mass hypnosis via gobbledegook and fallacy projection to keep the public asleep) are incapable of seeing her villainy; fortunately the children, for whatever blessed reason, are seemingly immune from the Clinton charm, or what little shreds remain of it, and will not vote for her as a matter of basic judgment.
She's a crook and a liar, not to mention a war monger. Why would I ever vote for her? I guess it’s harder for people over 45 to figure things out; their paychecks and comfort levels are dependent on their willingness to reject facts and serve blindly, to accept obfuscation and lies and all manner of corruption as a cost of doing business. Morality is a difficult equation when there are so many lies to factor in, when one is so entrenched in one’s own deceptions that reality no matter matters.
I guess life is much more simple when you're young.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Somehow disingenuous immigration lawyer Khizr Khan got on stage at the DNC -- after the truly awesome Nina Turner was denied a chance to speak. Khan held up a pocket Constitution and falsely implied that Trump's immigration proposals are unconstitutional. They are not unconstitutional, simply idiotic.

But the emotional diatribe and personal insults got the notoriously thin-skinned Trump's attention, and now thanks to The Donald Mr. Khan is all over cable TV. "Trump has no soul," no, "Trump has a soul but it's black!" Forget the issues, we're in for months of derp and personal attacks. The OMG Trump campaign at work.

For his part, Trump's name-calling has progressed from "Crooked Hillary" to referring to her as "the Devil."

Maybe I'll just watch Netflix until November 8.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Thumb's picture

Because that's all I hear anyone talking about.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Khan!!!

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

They will almost certainly try to spin it as a threat, though, rather than a measure of what we know will happen to us.

One more "chair thrown round the World" coming up from the corporate whores of Media. Count on it.

But ye gawds, it does capture the feeling!

BTW, this "kid" is over 60, and partly because of what I saw happen in the 90s, you couldn't get me to vote for another Clinton, even with a gun to my head. They helped wreck my home state, their social policies helped a couple friends of mine die before their time, and their harsh sentencing laws stepped up the War Against Blacks (-the "War Against Drugs", which we all know is bullshit). A vote for Hillary would be spitting on the ashes of my friends. A vote for Hillary might just finish off my home state. No group of terrorists could possibly do as much damage to the country as the Clintons and their wealthy friends already have, not even if you gave said terrorists a suitcase nuke or two, and invited them to wreck the place.

I too have suspected that Trump only ran to help Clinton get elected, and I suspect that he won't release his tax returns because someone might find a tidy sum from the Clinton Foundation, or one of its many surrogates.

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"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

$hillary and Trump could corrupt the office of dogcatcher. I will never vote for either of them.

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