90% of Sanders Supporters Are Now With Her! Really?

I'm sure we've all heard the figure being slung around recently that Unity! is coming to pass and that all the Sanders voters are now making s'mores and singing Kumbaya with the Clintonites over the Democratic campfire. 90%!

Leaving a paltry 10% of Sanders unenlightened curmudgeons to slink back to their dwellings in remote caves or under bridges, only to pop out occasionally with cries of "TPP!" or "Universal Healthcare!" or some other favored windmill joust with TPTB. Sanders supporters - you don't want to be one of those losers, do you? Don't you want to live proudly in the sunshine with the candidate who shatters glass ceilings and causes a wholesale reprinting of diner placemats around the country? Don't you realize that a vote not cast for HRC is a wasted vote? Does the name "Ralph Nader" mean anything to you? Such are the powerful blandishments meted out to this truculent minority.

Where did this 90% figure come from anyway? It came from this recent Pew Poll and Washington Post story, 90% of unwavering Sanders supporters plan to vote for Clinton in November Go ahead and read the story please, and look at the graphs. One aspect of the story addresses what's up with the obvious divide at the convention then? Which is answered that these are the MOST virulent Sanders supporters and not representative of the whole. Oh. . . . . . . okay. Yeah, sure, that must be it.

I have to say when this figure was first being promoted, I had lots of initial skepticism, most of it anecdotally based on my own experience. I haven't seen this movement towards Clinton myself. Instead I have seen many more people discussing their disgust with the political system in toto and considering not voting at all, writing in Sanders or investigating Greens. I'm sure that indeed some percentage of Sanders voters have moved with varying degrees of enthusiasm to Hillary as the pragmatic choice to stave off Trump, but I definitely question the 90% figure.

Is Daily Kos suddenly inundated with shamefaced Sanders prodigals returning to the fold? Does your Facebook reflect this? How about your friends and acquaintances? If anything, my husband commented the other day how shocked he was to see numbers of people he would never have in a million years suspected of ever announcing Trump support now say they are considering him! (Aside - I will never ever ever vote for Trump or advocate a vote for Trump, just in case you are in doubt)

Okay, so back to this 90% figure. Take a closer look at the Pew chart. The people being polled are "Democratic" or "Democratic leaning" voters. Aha! That may be the answer. People who self-identify as Democratic or Democratic leaning are, not surprisingly, going to stick with the Democratic nominee. How much of a surprise is that?

For reference, let's take a look at another article written by Nate Silver back in May: The Hidden Importance Of The Sanders Voters Please take the time to read the entire article, because it is very interesting and pay particular attention once again to the words "self-identify".

Notice how that even back in Silver's May article, the Dem voters were 87% behind Clinton in a matchup with Trump! So the 90% figure being touted now is possibly, in reality, a paltry 3% pick-up. Here is his key conclusion:

Thus, citing Clinton’s reasonably strong general election numbers among self-identified Democrats — she had the support of 87 percent of Democrats in a recent NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll in her matchup against Trump, for instance, and 83 percent in a Fox News poll that showed her behind Trump nationally — may miss her problems among liberal-leaning, Sanders-voting independents. In the Fox News poll, only 30 percent of independents went for Clinton, and in the SurveyMonkey poll, just 36 percent did. But both surveys showed a large pool of undecided independents, potentially the Sanders voters that YouGov identified.

Here's the issue for the Clinton campaign. The greatest danger now facing them is that they believe their own hype about 90% of Sanders voters being with them and falling into a complacency believing that now the Sanders contingent can be safely ignored in their swing rightward. I think this is potentially the reason for the Kaine VP pick which was a real finger in the eye to liberals, given his stance on TPP and some other issues. (Find his 2005 ad when he was running for Governor where he says "I am a conservative").

Being told that if you are still part of a recalcitrant minority of 10% if you STILL insist on supporting the Sanders agenda or any other alternative to Clinton, is simply one way to make you believe that you are part of a group that no one would choose to belong to - the terminally grumpy disaffects who have no influence and no commonality with the others of their ilk who have pledged to fall in line. It's similar to the tactic that was deployed when Sanders supporters were told they were all white males or even worse, sexist, racist, misogynists. It's an attempt at shaming any remaining Sanders supporters into thinking they are "losers" and have no option but to return to the Democratic herd.

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earthling1's picture

I'm in that tiny, little o', measly 10% who cannot make any difference with such a strong candidate as Clinton.
Why are the Clintonoids still bitchin' to me? Do they actually think the loss of my one vote will cause Trump to win? If so, then they have a crappy candidate to begin with.
I can really feel the desperation in them.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

CalvinV's picture

When people start to use odd qualifiers such as "unwavering" to describe the group of Bernie Sanders supporters that they do count in the polls, it's just GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) in action. Who determines the criteria for "unwavering" ? Probably whatever the pollsters want it to be. For the statistics to be scientific and, thereby, valid, the sample has to be random, not selective.
I'm a little lazy to look it up but I think "unwavering" means people who supported Bernie very early (when he had less than 5% support since most Americans hadn't heard of him yet) and never thought about switching. That would mean people in the North Eastern states who almost always vote blue and if you give them a choice between Hillary and Trump, it's not that surprising that they continue to vote blue. 10% is actually pretty high when counting people who hate Hillary enough to drop the support for a socialist and vote for Trump instead.
Anyway, according to the polls, Trump is beating Hillary Clinton right now. Bernie Sanders would beat Trump by double digits if he were the nominee. Do you believe that Hillary's supporters plus 90% of Bernie's supporters would lose to Trump ? The maths just doesn't add up. It's just pure BS based on that "unwavering" qualifier.

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;-}

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The Hillarites actually want us to believe we're all going to fall in line for the coronation. How quaint!

Why, it's positively idealistic, even. It's even charmingly naive. So pie in the sky, such wishful thinking! Bless their little hearts. Next they'll be demanding we saddle their unicorns for them.

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Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia

Alphalop's picture

That was really excellent!

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

90% of the Bernie supporters still remaining in Philly.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Borkrom's picture

Thank you for this posting this information. I believe this 90% figure is incorrect based on my awareness and interactions with local politics. I know this is not data driven understanding and awareness of the situation, but it is based on my level of experience and understanding of politics.

During my time at the Washington State Caucuses, listening to and looking for levels of support (signs, stickers, and generally gauging voters), there appears to be little if any love for Clinton. As a matter of fact, during my two rounds of caucusing (precinct and district) people were freaking booing (very loud and long) when Clinton's name was brought up. Many stated to me they would never vote for her (this was in March prior to all the additional bad news released) they were either independents for Bernie and first time participants. Each time, the Clinton supporters could not bring up positive points to vote for her just that Trump is evil and bad and we need to elect her because we fear him.

I am in western Washington, just south of Seattle so in theory this should be a safe area for her, I am not so sure. She will win it, but not in typical fashion. I have seen several big Trump signs, and NO Clinton signs. I know that signs are not a measure of would will win, but it does display some level of support.

I still believe this gap of enthusiasm by existing democratic and independent voters will not improve and be unable to overcome the level of support by Trump supporters and Hillary Haters. Therefore, I believe Trump will be the next president of the United States. By the way, I am not a Trump supporter- moved from Indiana to Washington for economic, lifestyle (things to do) and political reasons (I am a liberal). It makes me sad that the stupid ass Democrat could not look outside their bubble to understand the truth of the situation (Hillary a flawed candidate and Bernie would be running laps around Trump).

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Borkrom's picture

Thank you for this posting this information. I believe this 90% figure is incorrect based on my awareness and interactions with local politics. I know this is not data driven understanding and awareness of the situation, but it is based on my level of experience and understanding of politics.

During my time at the Washington State Caucuses, listening to and looking for levels of support (signs, stickers, and generally gauging voters), there appears to be little if any love for Clinton. As a matter of fact, during my two rounds of caucusing (precinct and district) people were freaking booing (very loud and long) when Clinton's name was brought up. Many stated to me they would never vote for her (this was in March prior to all the additional bad news released) they were either independents for Bernie and first time participants. Each time, the Clinton supporters could not bring up positive points to vote for her just that Trump is evil and bad and we need to elect her because we fear him.

I am in western Washington, just south of Seattle so in theory this should be a safe area for her, I am not so sure. She will win it, but not in typical fashion. I have seen several big Trump signs, and NO Clinton signs. I know that signs are not a measure of would will win, but it does display some level of support.

I still believe this gap of enthusiasm by existing democratic and independent voters will not improve and be unable to overcome the level of support by Trump supporters and Hillary Haters. Therefore, I believe Trump will be the next president of the United States. By the way, I am not a Trump supporter- moved from Indiana to Washington for economic, lifestyle (things to do) and political reasons (I am a liberal). It makes me sad that the stupid ass Democrat could not look outside their bubble to understand the truth of the situation (Hillary a flawed candidate and Bernie would be running laps around Trump).

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If they do what I anticipate them doing after the Convention a day won't go by without hearing about her carelessness with National Security and her involvement with DNC tipping the scales toward her. By November they may have even turned her staunchest supporters against with all her corruptness.

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O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.

Probably closer to 105%. It's a huge groundswell for Her Hilarity!

Honestly, probably another DNC story passed on to the media to spread. And you are right, the non-party members supporting Bernie are much less likely to just support HRC in her campaign.

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“The first duty of a man is to think for himself”

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

detroitmechworks's picture

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Phoebe I hope you don't mind if I share via email. I see the Facebook, Twitter and Reddit links to share but I have people who have no clue what that is! I will give you FULL credit with the link. Maybe drum up a few more viewers here!

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O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I hope you will link back to here. I would like more people to see that it is possible to have civil and interesting conversations online, political and otherwise, without belittlement and accusations of various forms of perfidy.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

ThoughtfulVoter's picture

I read 85% somewhere, but personally find it VERY hard to believe.

For my personal vote, I will not have the "fear of Trump" held over me to vote for someone that I feel is ethically unqualified for higher office. I am voting my conscience, and it won't be for Hillary.

I am sickened that the Clintons so far have been able to get away with the millions they have exploited in exchange for political favors. Deep in my heart, I believe we are a just country and it is only a matter of time before their crimes catch up with them. But how long must we wait for justice?

In my view, it is a much deeper issue than Bernie vs Hillary. It is corruption versus ethical public service. By ramming Hillary down our throats, we have the media, the DNC, and established politicians all telling us that integrity does not matter. Well for someone who believes integrity is a cornerstone qualification for public service, I won't be drinking their Kool-aid!

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Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

They don't care about transparency and accountability or oversight despite previous lip service and finger wagging at Rove and his servers.

They don't care about their own voters selecting the Party candidate and only want a rubber stamp and convention for a pre-determined outcome.

They raffle off board appointments and directorates of government institutions as party favors to donors.

They are willing to smear not just an opposing candidate, but that candidates' entire electorate as racist, sexist misogynists.

They are willing to use religious divides to their own purposes.

They are happy to use questionable sleight of hand 3 card monte financial flows in order to favor a particular candidate and create an illusion of down ticket aide.

They don't have any issues with a candidate who is unwilling or unable to hold press conferences but speaks instead only to pre-selected journalists in controlled settings

I could go on, but why bother? The problem is that the Democrats have abandoned any previous moral high ground they once held over Republicans. In terms of policies that would benefit the 99% and the bulk of the American citizenry, they can be counted on to do the least they can get away with. They are not the Party of Peace. They are not the Party of Justice. They are not the Party of Prosperity. They are not the Party of the Common Man. Although they pretend to be all those things.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

she said were 'in the system"?

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

But you guys have gone off the reservation. Sarah Silverman was right. There needs to be some dissenting voices in here, and if I'm it, so be it. Too echo-chambery in here.

150 or so Sandets delegates walked out on Tuesday after the roll call. Out of more than 1800. Less than 10%. Now, some others who may never vote for Hillary may have stayed, I'll grant you. And yes, the delegates to the convention are, on par, much more fanatical supporters of any candidate than actual voters.

As to the polls, there is always something off there. I mean, if Blacks at about 15% of population are voting for HRC at 90/10 (or bettet) and Latinos at 30% (say 20% of voting population) are breaking for HRC at 66% (or better) and Asians at a similar rate, and HRC is winning women, how in the world can Trump be tied? He'd have to be winning whites 80/20 ish, or better, yes?

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detroitmechworks's picture

but it doesn't change the fact that by installing Hillary, the Democrats have ensured the lowest turnout on their side of any election since the one that gave away free bullets to the head with every vote.

And if only 150 walked out, then clearly I didn't see the clearly empty holes in the arena seating. Must be my vision. Or North Korean Photoshop, because I hear that they also want Trump to be President.

And Sarah Silverman is condescending and fatuous.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Are you serious?

A majority of people agreeing the Clintons are corrupt, liars, neoliberals, who have destroyed the Democratic party with their DLC friends - is "echo-chambery." Really?

I will vote for Trump, I will never vote for the Clintons.

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they knew that walking out enmasse would have dissed Bernie after he asked them to stay respectful, and they also knew that the Clintonites would just pull their credentials and fill the seats. And then, they wouldn't have been there to hold up "no tpp" signs in front of the President last night.

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WaterLily's picture

Here are their results.

Not even close to 90% -- in Vermont, at least.

I think it's hilarious that Team HRC is touting this ridiculous meme. And I'm thrilled they believe it. It will make the schadenfreude even more sweet.

(Incidentally, Phoebe, I adore your writing and your biting humor!)

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I've been a lifelong dem. Done a lot of canvassing and phone banking and contributing. And I am a political buff. I love, usually, any political stuff going on. This year not so much for the latter during the conventions. I can't stand the repubs on a good day and Trump has moved all the gop good days to ick.

But the same is true for Hillary. Ick is the basic word for both of these leaders. I listened to the roll call but have no desire, NONE, to listen or watch any more of it.

I DID get enormously excited about the delegate walk out and I am cheering them on. Good for them and hurrah for their courage.

After reading the reports on the electoral fraud we've seen I am tremendously convinced Bernie actually won. But democracy has turned into a mockery instead here in the US.

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glitterscale

riverlover's picture

Walk away. Go Green or whatever you wish. No proselytizing from me and no guilt. We have been abandoned.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Alphalop's picture

Deleted...

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

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