Imagine lying on your back with your hands in the air. Now imagine being shot by police.
Can't happen? Well, Charles Kinsey of Florida disagrees. A black man and a caregiver at an assisted living facility, Charles was shot and injured by an officer as he was lying on his back, hands in the air, while trying to help an autistic man playing with a toy truck who'd wandered away from the facility.
Charles Kinsey was trying to retrieve a young autistic man who had wandered away from an assisted living facility and was blocking traffic when Kinsey was shot by a North Miami police officer.
The North Miami Police Department said they were responding to a call about an armed man threatening suicide, but they have released few other details about the shooting itself.
In cellphone footage of the incident that emerged Wednesday, Kinsey can be seen lying on the ground with his hands in the air, trying to calm the autistic man and defuse the situation seconds before he is shot.
And to add icing to the cake, police left Charles lying, handcuffed and bleeding, in the street for 20 minutes before medical assistance arrived.
What a country!
Comments
How do we fix this (these) problem(s)
step one
is arresting and charging this murderous cop with assault with a deadly weapon.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
That would be step one
in this case and every case to date. But that has not happened and probably will not happen in this case either. So How can we get to a solution if no one in a position to do the obvious seems to be interested in doing nothing?
well,
that's when people start shooting cops. so, it behooves supporters of cops to bring the hammer down on cops that are far too stupid to wear the badge.
i worked in restaurants for more than a decade, and i'd defend my crew to the end, even if they showed up drunk as fuck. but the ones that fucked up, like seriously fucked up, i'd toss out the door like a burning banana. this is how cops need to start thinking, you don't want people gunning for you? don't circle the ranks around the incompetent fuckups.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Working on just that
Who Does The Selecting?
Too many cops don't strike me as intelligent enough to make these determinations, and they won't let civilians do it.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
That would be a nice discussion to have.
I do not know how to construct a forum in which to have a coherent discussion. I would appreciate any suggestions.
It would help if people would
It would help if people would keep people out of office who, like Hillary Clinton, feel that Mayors who help to cover up police murders of citizens are still fit to retain their offices.
Vote against all evil!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
This might be the best suggestion to date.
The only way I can think of to fix the problem is to make it impossible for bad cops to stay on the force. But if you think this will work in an environment where cops are underpaid, poorly trained, poorly equipped, and have shitty supervisors, you are sadly mistaken.
By poorly equipped I am commenting on the FACT that far too many have outdated, poorly maintained, and ill fitting BASIC equipment. I am not referring to the militarization of the police force.
karma
works in strange ways. this guy just won the fucking lottery, and given the way he put his life on the line in this situation, i bet he keeps working as a caregiver.
i hope the taxpayers footing this bill realize that that multi-million dollar lawsuit needs to be paid with a multi-million dollar prison sentence for the dipshit, roided-out pig that shot him for no reason. half a bag of fuck that.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
None of the "cops" involved in this shooting should ever be
allowed to be working out in society.
They should be locked away.
As a mother of an autistic...I have only one comment about "cops". FTP!
I've had enough. I can't stomach the excuses for these gangs with badges anymore.
Not all cops?!?! No, but there's more than enough bad ones to make it damn clear that they are out of fucking control.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
They should be locked away . . .
My brother (severely "handicapped") was tortured at the oregon state hospital in Salem.
If I had been able, I would have killed someone that day.
Reality sucks shit hard . . . but most don't get it.
So sorry about your brother
the very people who need the most support are the ones who have the least.
I fear what I would become if a "cop" took my child's life. They, long ago, earned my complete disgust. I already feel "radicalized" by their actions.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
I still have nightmares . . .
. . . and trust issues. But, that's life . . .
This happened in Oregon, too
Ashland.
11 year old naked, autistic girl was found in the early morning hours along 1-5. The cops arrived and instead of providing protection or safety for the NAKED CHILD and instead of assuming she might be.. you know... a victim.
They tazed and beat her. A female "cop" felt the girl might be a danger to traffic....
Links? Just google "autistic girl ashland police brutality" it all pop up.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
there's
something wrong with those people. it's not a "cop" thing, they've got to be, personally, the most incomprehensibly irredeemable people in the zip code.
how these people are allowed to carry a badge is beyond me. it's a fiasco. the only reason they still exist as police is other police keeping their mouths shut, because more than one person saw that coming.
and the ones that saw it coming and kept their mouths shut are as guilty as the sick fucks that did the deed.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
I can't argue with your assessment.
But I can ask, "Have you ever been in that situation."
no.
i get your cop apologist bend, and no, i haven't been in "that situation".
but, if i had my gun drawn on a guy, lying on his back with his hands up in the middle of the road, with an autistic kid with a toy truck, EXPLAINING THAT THE AUTISTIC KID WITH A TOY TRUCK IS AN AUTISTIC KID WITH NO GUN, but instead a toy truck, AND THAT HE'S A CAREGIVER AND THAT THE KID IS AUTISTIC the chances of my shooting him for no reason, on his back with his hands in the air and clearly not a threat, are nil.
how would you react in this situation? maybe you'd shoot him once, for good measure?
what the fuck, seriously. i'm just asking though. heh.
oh, and full disclosure: i have two close family members who are cops in richmond VA and indianapolis IN, so i too have a reasonable understanding of the police condition.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
As a mother of an autistic kid, I hope if my son ever needs help out in the community, he comes across someone like you and not a "cop" or a "friend of a cop".
Those types seem to be so afraid of everything.
This "situation" required a human being to offer aid. Not a cop.
And YES I've been in that situation. Many fucking times. My son has sat down in the middle of intersections, stores, paths.
Just glad there wasn't any damn cop nearby who wouldn't know how to handle such a "situation"
My gawd... time to take away their fucking guns. They aren't fit.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
i've
had several autistic friends throughout the years, and it's frightening, given the authoritarian jesus cops believe themselves to be, to think of any sort of interaction between said cops and someone who doesn't recognize that authority worship at all. like, not in the least.
i hope your luck holds out.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Sadly, it is just that - luck.
First time my son was called a horrible name it was done by a cop as my son crossed a street with the aid of his father.
"look at the fucking fa&&ots" two cops.
It took everything in my spouse to just keep walking with our son.
My son's only daily, threat are the "cops" here. I use that term lightly. We all know the correct term by now. It's pretty obvious.
Killers.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
my first run-in
with cops was as a freshman in high school, in the back of a pickup (not illegal) that we'd stuck some branches in so they'd blow in the breeze while we drove along.
"bunch of long-haired faggots" the cop called us. they claimed to have pulled us over because they thought the branches were "marijuana".
"bunch of long-haired faggots"... that's how you win the hearts and minds of the kids. that and DARE raps.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
had a long time customer
whose son is autistic and very low verbal tell me that she was chased out of a coffee shop because she had to cancel her drink order as her son, upon being called a "fucking fruitcake" by the "cop" standing a few people behind them in line.
She decided to cancel her order as she was leaving with her son who started to tap his ears because he was called a name which made him feel threatened and scared.
she tried to LEAVE before he escaluated - meaning before he ended up crying and laying on the ground or running.
the damn cop followed her out of the store calling her a "crazy bitch" and that she had obviously made her kid a "cop hater"....
He started it all by calling her kid a nasty name in public so she leaves and it's still on her. In other words, they can call us names but how dare we politely leave. Or how dare we call them for what they are.
Stay safe my friend.
FTP
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Holy fucking shit!
I can't even imagine hearing that. As a bystander, I'd have been arrested, if not assaulted and then arrested or maybe killed.
How incredibly cruel. But what he said would have been unacceptable had the son not been autistic.
I'm gobsmacked!
American Bystanders are usually too
scared to get involved.
too busy.
too self-absorbed.
"free and brave" ugh.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Not for wrath or $$$$$$$$.
It's too hot to get me totally riles up, but phone goes everywhere now, and I am an innocent white older lady.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I am not a cop apologist . . .
but who cares and I suppose we are done here.
k. n/t
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Yes, I have been in that situation.
Many times. My son, would just stop and sit down. Anywhere.
Sometimes he'd flail out and holler. Lots of times a loud sound or siren would make him freak out and try to run. I'd have to drop everything and try to console him and get him back on track.
I've also seen people out in the community with their loved ones who need help. Many of our friends have disabled, adult children. I hear the horror stories each week.
I have always provided help or support. I've never thought of shooting someone who was on their back screaming that the person is autistic and not to shoot.
I'm not sure there is any "situation" where I felt the need to shoot someone who clearly wasn't doing anything wrong and was coming to the aid of someone who clearly was needing protecting and service.
My son was already afraid that the cops would hurt him simply for being disabled and different. Now just sitting in the road or wandering in it - is deemed worthy of a shooting or tazing...
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
My daughter just got a new job
She'll be working with, training autistic young adults. She is extremely well qualified. And very excited to get this job.It had not occurred to me that might put her in danger from police. I guess her new boss will warn her about police. I hope so.
Congratulations, we need more
Congratulations, we need more of her. We truly do outnumber them. It just takes more of us to be still be seen as less.
Hope this works. First comment via cell
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
YES. Working in the homeless shelter section of NYC's Dept of
Social Services (1972-1983) I jumped between men beginning a knife fight on several occasions. When I became shop steward I had to remind young fellow workers not to attempt to emulate that, but the idea that ANY cop needs to shoot an unarmed autistic man to ensure his own safety is contemptible. Please don't try to excuse this as "He thought the toy truck was a gun and he wanted to save Kinsey's life by shooting his suicidal patient." That makes him an even worse candidate for policing.
That question which you think you can ask is incomplete unless you phrase it, "Have you ever shot someone in the course of your job and then admitted you didn't know why you did it?"
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When psychopaths run things
When psychopaths run things from the top down, there's no problem with making it psychopaths all the way down...
In a real democracy, this situation could never exist, let alone become routine.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
#HandsUpDontShoot
If there had been no video, the police report would have lied, and some people would be arguing that the cop's life was in danger and therefore this is justified.
When asked why he had shot his weapon, the perpetrator cop said "I don't know."
Black skin has been weaponized in this country, and there is no rationale needed.
I'm leaning more and more toward complete abolition of the police and prisons. I don't have answers for what we as a society do with the people who are thought to be truly dangerous to the rest of us, but right now the ones who are most dangerous are wearing badges and uniforms and acting in our names.
I'm very grateful that Charles Kinsey is alive today.
There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka
yep.
you're fucking right they would have, because it would have saved their corrupt fucking asses millions of dollars in lawsuit.
oups.
i'll start to believe the police when they start denouncing their own blatant fuckups.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
I suspect that at least some
I suspect that at least some part of the militarization of police and the protection of those officers who brutalize/murder citizens is in the interest of killing faith in the systems which are supposed to provide service to the public who pays them.
The 'Powers That Be' which predate upon the people do not want the people demanding democratic government, police who protect and serve the public - or anything else; a right-wing propaganda line is designed to convince people to demand the shrinking of the government they corrupt to the point where it could not stand as the arm of the people against those who would predate up on them even if staffed with those who would and to eliminate all public services, including police who could, if actual uncorrupted police departments, stand as an arm of the people against those who would predate upon them.
You see the common theme here. And have heard right-wing media-brainwashed Republicans demanding that government be shrunk and public services be done away with to be 'privatized' - by those who predate upon the people.
They want to do away with civilization and the very concept of democracy with a mind-set of 'power rules', the biggest bully taking all in a world where they envision themselves as the most powerful and therefore The World's Most Powerful, lacking the brains to realize what such a dog-eat-dog world would be like with each of the Most Powerful aiming at each other's throats and no protections for anyone, especially against the bribed/ambitious within their own house, so to speak.
Get and keep psychopaths and self-interests out of public policy and the public service and these abuses will no longer be, whether tacitly or blatantly, accepted and fostered, but promptly eliminated at the first sign of abuses.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Just got back from running errands with my adult son
So glad we didn't run into any "cops".
Our daily routine and the way we do things a little differently might confuse and scare the "cops".
It's bad enough hearing some idiot make a comment about people with disabilities but we also have to make sure that there aren't any "cops" watching or nearby. When you attract the attention of bigots and assholes, that's one thing. But when you attract the attention of a "cop"... it can be really really bad.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
This is not easy to hear . . .
. . . you may not want to watch this:
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Y9mkrGRsc]
"...releasing her name
or the exact details because..." that would make them look like incompetent fucking assholes.
back to you, debbie.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
I am not sure I understand your comment.
I took it as part of the commentary from the video n/t
i am not sure
you bothered to watch the video in the comment i was replying to.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
The "news" continues to say woman when it was a little girl
My friend's son wandered away from their new apartment while he was doing laundry or in the john. He got scared and took off his clothes while trying to knock on a door of a house that was for sale. He wanted a "house" not an apartment.
When my friend arrived, so did the "cops". They hit him with four bean bags shots. 4 red dots on his naked back.
So glad he didn't die from his wounds. Then they pounded on him
All while witnesses screamed DONT SHOOT! IT"S A KID!
FTP
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
The woman news anchor referred to the 11 year old
as a "woman." Incredible!
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Right? Since when are 11 yr old girls "women"?? !!
Our jobs are hard enough. We can't call 911 cause the "cops" aren't trained to respond to disabled households or "situations".
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Yeah. The implication IMO is to attribute adult responsibilities
to someone who is obviously a child. Add autism into the mix and such an implication is unconscionable.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I want to hear the 911 call
If that call really came in, I feel the person who made it should be charged. Just like the piece of shit who called and got that poor guy gunned down in the Walmart because he was black and holding a BB gun.
I want to hear the 911 call!
While I totally understand your sentiment
and share it wholeheartedly, by placing the blame on the person who called 911, we allow these cops just enough leeway to act like they just responded normally. I think we need to take that thought away from them completely. It is their fucking JOB to respond and even interpret those 911 calls, to deal with panicky and scared people and to de-escalate the situation when they can, and they've abdicated that. Blaming the civilian who called them won't change anything.
But I'd like to know if any call ever came in at all too.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Agreed
Except we, civilians, do have at least partial responsibility if we "cry wolf." Presuming that the dispatcher doesn't leave out pertinent information, as in the case of Tamir Rice. We'll never know if the phrase 'toy gun' or 'possibly a toy gun' would have prevented his murder.
Yes, cops are supposed to de-escalate, and obviously have issues with doing that. I just think that if you make a bullshit call (like the racist liar at Walmart), you should be held criminally and civilly accountable.
And, because I know cops and police departments are notorious for being dishonest, I too am wondering if such a call exists.
My take is the hiring, training and protocols need to change
I need to write an essay about this topic, but a weapon is a instrument of death- sorry but when you plan or need to use a weapon, it is to harm or kill nothing else. Therefore, it should be the item of last resort, too many times the officer goes for their gun first. I know their line of work is dangerous, they could die in the line of work, and they have terrible encounters and they have to deal with potential societal issues or problems every day- stressful. However, the police rush to shoot first and ask questions later in criminal and morally wrong.
To solve this issue, you must hire quality/good people. Moreover the police must build and foster an environment of be proactive part of the community- not a us vs them mentality and locker room mentality (the strong bully the weak). Moreover, they must receive training- the focus should be on situational awareness, how to positive interaction with people, diffuse situations, non-lethal tactics, and must be taught we are not criminals (innocence until proven guilty)- they must protect and serve ALL of us. Additionally, the police must not be given goals of so many arrests or property sized- their goal is to project and serve us- not to make money from us for the establishment. Finally, protocols, if an officer draws their weapon and fires it, then this incidence needs reviewed with a 3rd party board to ensure the police officer took the appropriate steps. If the officer kills someone in the line of duty then they will be suspended from front line work; however, they will work on administrative tasks (there is always office work to do), no more of this crap they get a paid vacation (suspended from work with paid). Furthermore, there needs to be a 3rd party that is independent from the political system and the police force to review and confirm their actions. Additionally, the police need to be part of the community they must serve and live in the neighborhoods they patrol and protect. Finally, if an officer unlawfully kills or manes someone then guess what, they lose their job and go to jail. We would go to jail in the same situation. No more slush funds for the department to pay for lawsuits.
A badge is a symbol of honor not something to hide behind.
And the 'officer' doesn't know why he shot him?????
And we used to laugh at the Police Academy films.................
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Houston mayor Turner released cop cam shooting video today
Case closed, right?
Yeah, um no! The cops in Houston get to turn their cams on and off at will. Guess when the cams (2 cops, 2 cams) were turned on? Yep, after thug was on pavement bleeding. Handy, that!
A longer, store video shows the not yet dead man standing/walking/spinning around in the middle of the intersection with cars speeding past, both arms up and extended outward.
Cop cam shows the cop removing a revolver from dying man's hand, and 20 minutes of cop telling a witness he's a witness and telling fellow cops his story.
Sylvester Turner claimed the video would justify the killing, and keep Houston cops from being targets of retaliation.