maybe Bernie's playing something other than chess
It struck me two nights ago, in fact. I don't know why, but I started to think about Bernie Sanders saying he'd do anything to defeat Donald Trump. Anything.
Well before endorsing Hillary Clinton, Sanders kept repeating statements like this one:
“The major political task that together we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald Trump is defeated and defeated badly,” he said in a speech delivered from a TV studio in his hometown of Burlington, Vermont. “And I personally intend to begin my role in that process in a very short period of time.”
And then Sanders does it: he endorses Clinton. It was tough to hear.
Okay, back to two nights ago: I thought, wait a minute. What does Sanders do if Hillary Clinton's poll numbers continue to show real weaknesses against Trump (and they have)? If she can't definitively put Trump away?
Did I hear Jill Stein is visiting Burlington?
Yeah. No, he's not playing chess. He's made up his own game, created his own board, and is playing by his own rules.
Of course, I could just be delusional.
Comments
my friend, you *are* delusional!
Bernie has caucused with the Democrats for a long time.
He is in with that crowd, enough so that they've given him chairperson positions.
He ran as a Democrat, hoping to win, hoping to advance his beliefs.
He said if he didn't win he'd endorse the nominee.
That's the entire story. The rest, that you and I would hope for, is an expression of what we'd like to see, but you and I are different from Bernie. He's made his decision that working within a certain framework (one that we don't like) is the best way for him to have any effect.
Along that line he is now sheepdogging. He might not be doing the best job at it, though. Instead of nipping at us and barking he's closer to suggesting that we vote for Hills, not because Hills is great but because we have to stop Trumpolini.
By the way, in case I forget to say this elsewhere, the Republican convention might be the first one that I can recall that will cause a dip in popularity for that party. Conventions are famous for bumping up the party in the polls. This one probably won't.
I agree with everything you say
except the sheepdogging bit. He's either the laziest two legged sheepdog ever or just going through the motions for show. A third possibility is that he's telling us how important he thinks defeating Trump is and letting us decide. I'm all for door #3. The tell for me is what he is doing and not what he's saying although I do think he is firmly against Trump as president. He'd have to be to disable all of his post primary options so badly with an impenetrable boundary on Trump.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
He's either the laziest two
He's painted himself into a corner, and there's no upside to that.
What corner is that?
Maybe whose corner is a better question. He's still doing what he has done since the sixties. His campaign is more or less ended and he has lost the nomination. Yet he's still moving forward with the Our Revolution organization with more to come. His message and policy positions are still intact. He appears to be working with Jill Stein and the Green Party in some fashion. They're natural allies with nearly identical positions. How or if they continue to work together will become obvious over the next several weeks and months. He's moving forward regardless of who continues to move with him. So how is that a corner exactly? Could it instead be that some of us choose to put him in a box of our own making? We'll see.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
What's the (predictable)
What's the (predictable) result of his being forced to 'endorse' Hillary in order to keep his delegate status and attend the Convention?
A 1000% increase in donations to Jill Stein, getting on the ballot in, hopefully, all States;
the People's Movement continues, with Bernie's message continuing to be carried - and with people continually pointing out that, while Bernie said that Hillary may know that important issues benefiting the people which Bernie promotes and she sometimes claims to support, (at least partially, and in front of the appropriate audience) are in the necessary public good category - that in reality Hillary is unlikely to enact them unless somehow forced; somehow, most things benefiting the people can't be done in Can't-Do America and she certainly can't be trusted otherwise as she just lies a lot;
Bernie has not yet conceded and keeps options open as far as he can;
and we have no idea whether he may have any unicorns up his sleeve, but the more coming out about Hillary and the more obvious she and her lackeys are in their clumsy attempts at cover-ups, lies and dismissals about numerous unscrupulous and corrupt/outright criminal acts (claimed as 'merely' astounding levels of chronic and evidently incurable ignorance, stupidity and the inability to read and understand documents and terms she must abide by, being utterly incapable of ever learning from her endlessly repeated mistakes from which the Clintons/Clinton Foundation so often richly profits) the more people refuse to hold their nose and vote for an avoidable evil of any kind to be visited on them.
Bernie is devoted to the concept of an informed and aware populace having a voice in and being part of their own governance; he'd obviously know that his supporters are overall unlikely to turn to and work to achieve evil, but that the Green Party provides the only other viable option to a Bernie President. And that if enough people vote Green against the evils, a non-corporate President can be had in Jill Stein.
Had he refused to endorse and been stripped of his delegate power and shut out of the Convention, I suspect that momentum and energy would have been lost by the People's Movement - forming the main real hope for change and survival. But Bernie never quits fighting for the people, he just keeps trying other ways, to see what can gain them something.
Bernie may not be perfect (as no one can be) but he knows what he's doing, and my trust in his integrity and determination to do his best for his country and people Berns forever.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Well said.
We win by staying in the fight. Falling on your sword leaves one more casualty on the field who can't fight on. Likewise we don't burn bridges with those who may be allies later on or on other issues. It's also usually a bad idea with foes. Adding barriers when trying to bring people together makes the job harder and beneficial results less likely. We work to pull people into our sphere of understanding. Unite rather than divide by finding areas of agreement and cooperation while working to find ways to compromise where we disagree. It isn't hard if we're willing to drop the polar thinking that goes with looking at the world as win or lose. The easy way is to give in to a quick emotional fix of dismissing other people's ideas with labels and insults. The hard way is to fight on, never quit, and persevere. This is the lesson Bernie has lived his whole life. He is willing to compromise on most anything except principle and integrity. Aren't these the qualities that brought most of us under his influence in the first place?
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I don't think that even you
I don't think that even you could have said that any better than you did and I couldn't agree more.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Well shucks. Thank you.
I've recently tried to look at politics as I imagine Bernie has over a long career. His accomplishments have all been related to how he treats people and his ability to bring them along to being willing to listen and work with him. Being faithful to principles of honesty, integrity, and respect go a long way with people, even those who might be vehemently opposed to our ideas. I bet he's a good listener too. The most important idea I've come to think is key to Bernie's success is how he see people as the key.
Another quality is staying power. The guy never slows down or quits. I love this growing community. Yet I'm dismayed by the lack of resolve. The slightest setback or bad news has people seeing the end of civilization as we know it. We can never quit. We may have to regroup and move in a different direction or focus on what we can achieve. Quitting in despair or abandoning the best progressive leader I've seen in my 65 years doesn't make any sense. Also troubling is the lack of response when I ask for alternative ideas or plans.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
What's the (predictable)
Okay, literally no one predicted that. There has been speculation for months about what Bernie would do if he lost the primary, whether he would really endorse Hillary etc., and nobody said "he's going to endorse her, and then donations to Jill Stein will skyrocket."
I should point out here that just as twice nothing is still nothing, a 1000% increase in donations to the Green Party still won't give them a fighting chance. If it was 10,000%, then maybe they'd have something.
Except no one knows where to carry it to or how to get it there. The movement needed a powerful leader and figurehead and now it's forced to settle for "well, maybe we can get some progressives elected to lower office and maybe someday, far in the future, we'll have enough to matter". And the left is splintering again without a Big Shiny Object to follow.
Oh, and People's Movement? Don't you mean Some Of The People? Because the left has done nothing to build bridges with the right, it's still floundering on class, and it's still working to offend and alienate its own constituency in the name of "justice". This movement is turning out to be a moment, and that moment is passing, and that will be clear with a year or two of hindsight.
He doesn't have to concede now, everyone knows he's effectively lost. There's no chance the superdelegates are going to pick him now; they're on board with Crooked Hillary, whom no one will stop.
As far as keeping his options open, he's clearly closed some, so again, no.
That means President Trump (or his chosen successor). I'm okay with that because the most important thing in this election to me now is that Hillary loses - and because it will explode some Democratic heads, which will be delicious schadenfreude. But are you?
Tired of hearing this. You can't just "strip" someone's delegates, and if you could, Hillary's people would have done it by now.
You forgot to say "amen" at the end of your prayer.
As the ranking minority member of the Senate budget
committee, we'll see about that. If the Dems get the Senate back, whoever is president, their budget will go thru Bernie.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
I am very skeptical that Bernie will wield that much power
in the Senate. It would be a pretty big thing if he did, though.
Skeptical of the Dems getting the Senate back...
sure.
But per the Senate rules, he is the ranking minority member of the Budget Committee.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Yikes!
you know, I didn't think about it at all until you just posted this. Egad. First thing that comes into my head is "can they change the Senate rules in the lame duck session?" Because that could be quite a coup, depending on Democratic chances in the Senate. I don 't know what those are, really, but I'm thinking any opposition (cough) is not going to be real thrilled about having to go through Bernie to get shit done...
Skeptical that even if they did Bernie would
wield that much power, no matter his committee assignments.
And pigs will fly too...
There is a recent study I can't put my hands on right now, that shows a very strong correlation between the Presidential race and control of the Senate. In a close race there is no way that the Dems retake the body. $hill has shown in poll after poll that she can't pull away from the Donald, if indeed she can even win the race. So chances of a Chairman Bernie are slim to none.
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings
The empress has no
coat tails.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
She's in grave danger of
losing her coat altogether, from the sounds of it.
I am amused by the thought, even though that is probably not a very nice thing to be amused by...
I agree
Although Paul Street has a good read over at CounterPunch that Bernie is behaving like the Cowardly Lion more than a sheep dog. I'm starting to lean toward this option.
Bernie's actions
make sense when viewed through the filter that he has dedicated himself to ensure that Trump is not our next president. Ever the man of his word he publicly gacked up the hairball of the damning with faint praise endorsement of HRC he had promised. His obligation is done. I hope he won't feel it necessary to actively aid Clinton but I don't think he'd fail to do so if a Trump win appears likely. I don't know how I'll feel about it if it comes to that either. I'll deal with it if it if or when. He will certainly continue to do what he feels necessary to defeat Trump. And he's continuing to move forward with his political revolution just like he has his entire political career. Bernie's way, Bernie's style. Follow or don't, he'll still be out there trudging along surprising people as he goes.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
If one chooses to use that filter.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Exactly
and why not? The guy has been doing this for decades. It's all he knows. It's The Filter you know he's using, so why would he abandon it so easily?
Grifters can be beaten. I think we have absolutely not been abandoned and the guy's working with the cards he's been dealt. Who was it a couple days ago who called it "not a chess game, but a poker game"? Because yeah, that... (In fact, here's a poker game to think about).
I think it's a totally realistic assessment, and it can be realistic whether or not it is possible to actually happen. We don't know if it can happen or not--but that's a "wild card". And there are others. And Bernie Sanders has been doing this for a very long time, and he didn't get where he is now by just dicking over all his constituents on a lark because it was expedient in the moment. That's the kind of bullshit his opponent pulls.
And not for nothin', but just for fun, go back and watch that "endorsement" again. I swear to FSM, mr luna and I both watched it at the same time--and noted at the same time that he looked just like he was about to kakk up a hairball when he was saying it LOL!
Which filter would you use?
He's said repeatedly that he will work to ensure that Trump is not president. He is doing exactly that. He has never said how he would do it. There are no bounds that I can see. Maybe he will decide he has to actively campaign for HRC to ensure Trump loses. It is a distinct possibility the way she works so tirelessly to toss away the win. I'll deal with it if it ever happens. A wise person once told me that worry is interest paid on problems I have yet to experience. I have found it to be true.
The second term in the Bernie equation is that he continues to work on a political revolution as if nothing has happened except that he is no longer campaigning. His words and plans, admittedly yet to be revealed, have not changed directions. Are you stuck on the damning with faint praise endorsement? I've written evaluations and recommendations for people I've fired that were far more positive than what Bernie said about HRC. I'll concede this may change. He may suddenly go all Milton Freidman in a Henry Kissinger getup and W codpiece any day now. I'll wait until I see it to decide. Right now he is the best show in town despite not offering much hope for change this election cycle. Meantime, I'll hedge my bets with donations to the Greens and my vote to Jill Stein.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
If Bernie actively campaigns for Hillary
all the way thru Halloween, what are the possibilities for quid pro quo?
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Infinitesimal.
I think that's an exaggeration.
More like zero.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
GOP convention major tell
A major tell in this area is that the GOP Governor, whose State is hosting the Convention (Kasich) has publically stated that he will not set foot in the venue as long as the Convention is in session there. one source. When your hosting Governor, a member of your Party, boycotts the convention, it's a really bad sign.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
They wanted a Republican but the people gave them Trump instead.
I can see why the GOP establishment is pissed. Plus, all the scary Neocons are defecting to Hillary along with the profiteering donors. The Democratic voters are a sure thing when it comes to delivering Neocon moles to the White House. And, then blindly supporting them.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Truer words
...sadly
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I doubt that he will be asked to campaign a great deal for HRC
They got their endorsement which is most of what they wanted. They really don't like Bernie (or us) and they don't think like him (or us). They will move to the right in their traditional ineffectual fashion and ignore Bernie.
likely not
especially if he continues to proclaim in speeches that Clinton "believes" his agenda. he'll be boxing her in and setting her up to fail. she probably won't go for that.
So how does she "not go for that" if he goes for it...
Through media lackeys or behind the scenes? Because I'm wondering how far along she'd already strung herself, that he feels like he's even got a shot at boxing her in at all? To me, all of this depends on whether or not the whole "Investigation" of their sham, money-laundering Foundation that is supposedly going on is legit and real and stays that way, and isn't in danger of becoming another dog-and-pony show.
You could be right, but Jeff Weaver, his Campaign Manager,
says otherwise.
The same evening that Bernie endorsed FSC, he said on MSNBC that he would be campaigning for her 'from one side of the country, to the other.'
His words. Not mine.
And reporter Glenn Thrush of Politico reported a couple of months ago on XM radio, that FSC's campaign had already indicated that they would ask him to campaign in college towns on her behalf--assuming that she took the nomination. This is most important to her Campaign, because of her difficulty with the millennial cohort.
Time will tell.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
If Bernie racks up the miles campaigning for Hillary
I don't think Bernie does that without some quid pro quo understanding from the start. Just look at the scale of things by looking at Hillary's endorsement of Obama and her getting the SOS slot from Obama.
If the Dems get the Senate back, Bernie's currently the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, which means the next budget would go thru Bernie.
I'd really think Senate Majority Leader is where I want to see Bernie. But I think by the rules, he'd have to be a registered Democrat. But..... the position would be fitting for a Senator who just got 13 million votes and is no longer just a Senator from the small state of Vermont, he now has a national constituency.
Bernie got something promised to him by Hillary, as to what, as to the scale of the value, lets wait and see. I'm not one to make proclamations at every juncture, every week or every day based on the wind changing direction.
This is a process, I'm letting it play out, and as per your Weaver quote, Bernie might rack up the miles on behalf of Hillary, or he may not. But if he does, Bernie's getting something in return.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
My reply to RB addressed one point, only--
I apologize for not blockquoting it, as blue drop did.
My comments were based on factual reporting--according to a professional reporter, and Bernie's own Campaign Manager.
I prefer not to speculate on his strategy, motives, future plans, etc.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Majority leader?
That's just delusional. If the Dems somehow take back the Senate Bernie will be lucky to retain a committee chair. Schumer is the choice of the establishment for Majority leader.
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
I think Hiilary may find...
that she's better off just letting Bernie pass quietly into the sunset.
He certainly hasn't given her the bump she was expecting from the endorsement, and the longer he's out there doing his Manchurian Candidate act
"Hillary Clinton is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."the more Bernie fans will resent her for making him do it.
I think she's already realizing Bernie may not be a net positive. I mean, the guy has 1900 delegates and he's not even the featured speaker Monday night at the Convention.
My bet is come September, the Hillary campaign will be saying, "Bernie who?" And I think everybody concerned will be happy with that.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
According to a reporters round table on XM Radio, FSC's
campaign is mostly interested in picking up Bernie's millennial voters.
Her campaign's internal polling indicates that she's picking up so many disaffected Repubs, that she will be able to veer considerably more to the right--after the Dem Party Convention. IOW, she may not need to pick up most of Bernie's supporters to win.
They predicted that she will definitely go with a corporatist neoliberal VP pick. (Of course, corporatist reporters from WaPo, WSJ, NYT, etc., don't use my term--corporatist!)
Anyhoo, the panel thought that her pick would most likely be Tim Kaine.
Ugh!
We'll see.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Which means we'll be seeing a lot more of this:
which, ironically, is a parody of this.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Lol, indeed - Bernie will
Lol, indeed - Bernie will still be getting his message out about what could and should be done for the people by a government intended to represent them, rather than eternally draining them to enrich those at the other end of the Golden Shower raining down on the relative poors of America.
And he's still in the public eye and, presumably the media, if/when Hillary slides down her accumulating mountain of sins and her river of denial finally washes her away.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Yup. And as long as Sanders stays in the public eye
--hell, even if he doesn't at some point--she's not going to "get the millennials". That's even more delusional.
Guess which one will be second....
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
well i thought it'd level the playing field
by being a bit delusional... see how the other side manages it.
i guess i keep hoping that he breaks away from the Dems. even if Trump is elected, it may be the disbalance we need to really activate people. it's the system that needs to be made obsolete and I don't think it matters, long term, if trump or clinton step into the oval.
it's about us creating a system that is for the common good.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
But....but....
we're not supposed to think about stuff like that, let alone talk about it. It must be beaten down into a bloody pulp of "No, You Can't".
Damn right it is. I can't speak for others, but I am damn sure not losing sight of that anymore.
Unfortunately
As much as I would like this to be true, I can't say I am that confident it is.
Maybe Bernie helps Jill Stein behind closed doors, gives her access to his coveted email list (even that's a stretch), but I doubt you'll see anything formal.
I'm just glad Bernie is NOT handing over his email list
to the DNC.
Not sure how much it would help anyway.
A Hillary email bot spamming Berners for money would probably do more harm than good.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Not until the $hill is crowned
Then all things Democratic and other wise will belong to the new head Oligarch.
This is a tell.
Along with rumor that the election fraud documentation will be distributed at the convention.
Logic would indicate that if Bernie truly intends to specifically help Hillary defeat Trump, it would follow that his email list would be turned over as part of that effort. The only reason not to is because maybe he can think of better ways to use that list than to let Hillary and Co get their grubby little paws on it. What better ways? I think it all depends on whether some adjustment is made to the delegate count to reflect the actual tally (not likely, but you never know). Or to paraphrase Megyn Kelly, the real math, not the math (read:rigging) neoliberals do to make themselves feel better.
So, I'm waiting to see how things shake out, planning a vote for Stein, feeling good about that because I really like her. Hope and delusion make strange bedfellows sometimes. Bernie seems to be playing the game he signed up for by running dem, within the constraints of their ever-shifting self-serving rules, but I think he's playing it his way. Just as he's always done throughout his career.
Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia
Bernie's email list can't help Jill
The Green Party doesn't have the resources, skills, talent or infrastructure to utilize Bernie's email lists, or any of the other tools his team developed.
Bernie's emails worked so well because of Revolution Messaging.
I have roger@Westchester4bernie.org email, with about 280 on my list, there is no way I could handle the Green Party email list.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Yeah I dunno.
The essential argument here is that "since the Green Party is small now, the Green Party will always stay small." If the people who created the Republican Party in 1854 thought this way, there would be no Republican Party today. Conversely, if you joined the Green Party, I'm sure they could do something with your list.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
How long did it take for the GOP to supplant the Whigs?
Without looking it up, I'll take a stab at 15 years.
Don't get me wrong, I was planning on writing in Bernie, and I still might, but if not I'm going for Jill.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
The Republican Party was formed in 1854.
Honest Abe became America's first Republican President in April of 1861.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
SIX years.
Organized 1854, first Presidential win 1860. There was NO Whig candidate in 1860.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
i actually like that scenario
because Bernie could bern it down from the inside while Jill helps to build something outside.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Inside/outside is clearly the path out of the woods.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Heh
he wouldn't be burning it down from the inside, he'd be watching it bern already. And I see a lot of enthusiasm for Stein already on the electronic social-schmooze, so that's something.
I think none of us has a clue what Sanders is really up to, is what it boils down to, but it's fascinating to consider, and talk about. And I just have to say, it's refreshing as hell that we're not getting all beat up by mods for speculating, isn't it?
Happy Reading
For those who also aren't watching the show:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-t...
Tony really DID write the book
Notice how he wrote "What Really Matters" to "cleanse" himself after!
Let's wait until after Sanders and Stein meet.
If they're meeting at all. I wouldn't be surprised if Jill Stein decided to hang out in Burlington for six days only to be snubbed.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
I wonder if that meeting would be
publicly acknowledged if it did happen. Would they keep it on the DL?
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
We'll just have to wait --
until after it happens, if it happens, or if it hasn't happened already.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
There is a culture in D.C. and the Senate/Congress that
I think tends to not be taken into account. It's the same culture that allows U.S. imperialism to go unchallenged, allows the false flag on 9/11 to go unchallenged, and perpetuates the oligarchic systems that keep the serfs in their places. I hate to see the 11th dimensional chess thing related to Sanders because it was so ridiculous when attached to Obama. With our politicians no matter who they are, I think its best to take it as it looks. In Sanders case, he has endorsed a war criminal, a Wall Street whore, and a real sociopath. That's the end of the story for me. Those that vote for Clinton, some we can chalk it up to ignorance, but with Sanders its not ignorance. He knows exactly what Clinton has done. He knows exactly what Obama has done. His bullshit about respecting them is not only not conducive to any revolution I'd want to be a part of, it is detrimental to it.
You gotta dance
with the devil that brung you. Here we are. Are you going to do anything or are you going to sit on the sidelines and second guess everything before you even try any of it?
And what is this?
Within whose frame? Because really, it looks about six ways from Sunday, so whose word are we taking?
So much conjecture.
So little facts. Maybe Bernie is pooped after stumping around the country, giving speeches until he's hoarse, sleeping in strange hotel beds. He's 74 and an underdog who doesn't private jet in and then it's back to Chappaqua to sleep in a $10,000 Duxiana bed like Clinton probably does. Maybe he really is a Dem 'till he dies who didn't realize that words like "revolution" have an affect on people and they would come to expect that there would actually be one. Maybe you all don't really know Bernie, because he's been on the scene (public) for a mere five months, but don't want to acknowledge that, so you make stuff up according to your wishes and dreams and project them on him. Bernie's become the Chauncy Gardner character in the movie Being There , not a Kabuki plotter or twelfth dimensional chess master.
I'm too tired to go dig stuff
I'm too tired to go dig stuff up, and Bernie never blows his own horn, so stuff he's got done/honours he's received for such things just sort of turns up poking around the internet or posted by different people, but if you had any idea of what Bernie has managed to accomplish for some of the most vulnerable against all odds, you'd have a better understanding of his capabilities.
Funny, nothing Bernie managed to accomplished for the public good would really surprise me while, conversely, there are no depths which Hillary could sink to, whether against the public interest or simple human decency, which would surprise me either. The contrast between them and their records is astonishing.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
asdf
I do not understand why some seem to have a problem with "speculation". This (and other) comment(s) appears to be judging others and what they're bringing to the discussion and then dismissing them outright--not even acknowledging what's being put up is actually reasonable conjecture. It gets lumped in to some hyperbolic sarcasm and flip riposte on their part and then mocked.
IMO, it's kind of a figurative spitting on others and their opinions. YMMV, of course, but I really wish we'd stop doing this.
If Clinton wins the WH it'll ruin it for women for decades
This woman has too much baggage and if she'd been married to a non-political, non-Ex-president, do you think she'd be candidate material?
No. So now girls will grow up thinking they must marry well and cheat well in order to be president.
That doesn't even touch on the damage she's going to do in the WH. What if her emails were hacked? Will she be blackmailed as CIC? Will she start wars to pay off her favors and keep the opposition in check? Will she embrace TPP, fracking, and privitizing social security? Given her blatent tendency toward the tactical over the morality, I'm guessing yes. Her negatives will continue their downward slide and it will affect every.single.professional.female.
As an old feminist, I'm fucking appalled. Get ready for 4-8 years of blatently and suddenly-socially-acceptable misogyny. I'm so incredibly disgusted and Clinton-weary. She doesn't represent me and she's doing a huge disservice by insisting on her own coronation.
... Will she start wars to
The first 3 are already in the works, while the TPP unconstitutionally passes over effective ownership of the people and country in each case to hostile corporate take-overs involving thousands of companies and billionaires all demanding that their maximized anticipated profits be endlessly supplied by each of their new (ex-democracies) acquisitions, or they'll each sue the public of each involved country in their off-shored corporate court where the public interest has no standing for possibly hundreds of millions or billions of dollars to recover their anticipated future profits or until all public health/environmental/economic protections are gone, along with the most basic human rights - followed by the people and environment they've polluted and drained.
This is Hillary's 'Gold Standard' 'trade agreement, the one she was pushing around the world, together with fracking, as Sec of State, so we know what to expect from her.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
First spouses either way will be painful
Which will we end up viewing first, pedophiles on a plane or nude GQ/lingerie modeling pics?
Another old feminist who is thoroughly appalled.