Clinton's emails, servers, Comey, and the Senate.

I am interested in what will happen to the investigations of Hillary Clinton's misuse of government records ("email") scandal/case. I won't be at all surprised if the Senate impeaches Director Comey and conducts a no-holds-barred investigation of the whole mess. I am neither a lawyer nor a seer, but I have been reading some items about the scandal and about the public outrage which lead me to believe that Hillary is in for a few white knuckle days. Strangely enough, the laughable Trey Goudy may finally be coming into his own as a former federal prosecutor.

Here is an excerpt from a Counterpunch article that gives a legal view of what is wrong with Comey's positions:

Therefore, with the newly docile Bernie silenced from any effective action, it was left to Green Party candidate Jill Stein to point out, along with many others, that — aside from the above analysis of Comey’s legalistic obfuscation of the true legal meaning of and limited proof necessary for the element of intent – there was one violation that could be easily understood and accepted by all. “All the elements necessary to prove a felony violation were found by the FBI investigation, specifically of Title 18 Section 793(f) of the federal penal code…. Director Comey said that Clinton was ‘extremely careless’ and ‘reckless’ in handling such information. Contrary to the implications of the FBI statement, the law does not require showing that Clinton intended to harm the United States, but that she acted with gross negligence.”

And here is the link to the entire article which is densely packed with legal reasoning and is well worth reading:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/15/those-damn-emails-comeys-politica...

I hope you find it as useful and hopeful as I do.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

MAD-Magazine-Hillary-Clinton-Gowdy-Boys_577d209d033776.37084271.jpg

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

polkageist's picture

I wish I had seen this before I posted the essay. Goudy was a clown in the Benghazi circus but this time he actually asked good questions and seemed to be on track. I really recommend reading the whole Counterpunch article.

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-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

Think for a moment. What would be happening now if Hillary was still a Goldwater Girl? She'd skate, that's what! Tom DeLay and his crimes remain unpunished because he is GOP, and IOKIYAR!

I don't believe for one minute that Gowdy left to his own devices would be nearly so effective. The GOP always calls in the experts to advise from behind the curtain. It's the only way they and be competent, having a committee decide how an individual is going to act. Ganging up always works against strong individuals.

Comey is himself a Republican. Obama is a Republican-wannabee. No harm ever comes to a Republican. It's only those who don't represent the energy industry who have anything to fear.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

The key legal issue:

As Supreme Court justices Alito and Thomas said in another context, Comey’s quoted statement about controlling Justice Department precedent “confuses two fundamentally distinct concepts: intent and motive…. [O]ur cases have recognized that a lawful motive (such as necessity, duress, or self-defense) is consistent with the mens rea necessary to satisfy a requirement of intent.” Rosemond v. United States (2014).

Any motive whatsoever, innocent or otherwise, can be used as evidence of intent, but rarely, if ever, can motive be used to disprove intent for purposes of determining guilt. From the defense perspective, as the Supreme Court observed: “Motives are most relevant when the trial judge sets the defendant’s sentence …” Wisconsin v. Mitchell, 508 U.S. 476, 485 (1993) (hate crime). Thus motive might affect punishment, but ordinarily not guilt, except for proving the element of intent or as circumstantial evidence for identifying the culprit of proven bad acts, which is not in question here. Only the intent of the known culprit for the known acts is in question.

In other words, for the purposes of determining intent, it doesn't matter that Hillary said she set up the server for convenience, or that she just wanted to use her old blackberry or whatever other ridiculously contrived excuse she gave. Those facts merely suggest why she set up the server, not whether she meant to set up the server in the first place.

Clearly she did mean (intend) to set up the server, because she wanted (motive) the convenience of having it. According to SCT caselaw, all intent requires is that she meant to set it up, regardless of why.

Comey however, relies on her lack of nefarious motive ("she wasn't selling the info") to say there is no intent. That lack of nefarious motive might be important should Hillary ever actually be sentenced (I know, I know), but you can't use it as an excuse for purposes of finding (or not finding) that she intended the illegal act of setting up the server.

It's a very solid legal argument. Comey is dead wrong on the law.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

I listen to Dick DeBartolo's podcast every week. He's been with MAD for 50 years.

http://gizwiz.tv/

Plus, he has a video chat for about an hour every Saturday night. He is such a funny guy.

https://twit.tv/live

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MsGrin's picture

unprecedented signature of non-disclosure agreement for agents on this case

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

riverlover's picture

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1699656706954539/?fref=nf

Citizen investigation, good moderation, nothing not gleaned from our former press.

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reflectionsv37's picture

they also agreed to submitting to lie detector tests. Somewhere the actual NDA was posted. It actually talks about the lie detector tests in the document. Unbelievable! The last thing they want is some of the riff-raff at the FBI telling the truth about the elite. Nope! Can't have that!

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

Older and Wiser Now's picture

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/documents/hrc_ndas/1/doc_0c05833708/c05...

Also, FYI I created a discussion item about an article in The Hill,

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/comments/4szuu0/hillary_si...

and the link to the NDA was provided in the comments. Finally, here is the article in The Hill:

Hillary signed on the dotted line — and then broke the law

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~OaWN

reflectionsv37's picture

The Republicans and Senator Grassley are all over this story!

Sad that you only seem to find these stories at RW sources. Seems a good portion of the media just can't seem to find anything newsworthy about this story.

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

Hillary lies to Congress, the world, the FBI, and it's the investigators who have to keep the truth silent. What a world.

Hillary is going to get her ass kicked in November.

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snoopydawg's picture

that shows that there is enough evidence to charge Hillary for not only mishandling classified information, but to also charge her for intentionally trying to avoid the FOAI as well as many other charges. She did that Intentionally. There is no other reason for her to set up a private email server.
And IMO, the reason why she did that was so that she could also use it for doing business with her foundation.
How many times did Hillary say that she didn't send or receive classified information? How in the hell could she have done her job without sending or receiving classified information? She couldn't.
There is so much information in the article that disproves what Comey said.

Not taking into account the Clinton Foundation line of inquiry, however, excluded consideration of a potential motive for Clinton’s prioritizing over keeping the nation’s secrets, instead, keeping her “private” emails secret from the government. About half of the total emails were allegedly private, representing a quite intensive “private” life for someone in such a responsible public office who overly into computers. This division of attention would be consistent with the widespread allegation that Clinton was busy serving her family Foundation at the same time she was serving the public. See Peter Schweizer, Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich (2015). Investigator Greg Palast points out that notionally private communications, because addressed to Clinton’s family and its conflicting business interest, did nevertheless involve the official business of selling the country’s foreign policy in exchange for “contributions” to the Clinton Foundation.

And then there's this fact:

That potential motive would have been far more nefarious than the motives that Comey does approve for prosecution in other cases, such as whistleblowing on matters of mismanagement or torture. The damage done may also have been greater. William Binney, a former high-ranking NSA official, claimed that the “rather devastating compromise of technical capability and a commensurate loss of high value intelligence” from just one 2011 Clinton email released by the State Department may be “difficult for the public to understand and comprehend, but it is … much worse than what Julian Assange or Chelsea Manning or any of the other whistleblowers have done.” The email wasn’t redacted because it was sent to Clinton by Sid Blumenthal, a private citizen with no security clearance. But as shown in many other emails he sent to Clinton, he somehow had access to the latest top secret NSA information that revealed the NSA’s sources and collection methods.

Obama told her to keep her foundation separate from her duties as SOS and not to hire Sidney Bluementhal at the state department. So she hired him to work for her foundation as an information specialist.
The other damning evidence that she set up the private email server so that she could also use it for her foundation was that Chelsea also had access to it as Huma Abedin stated in her deposition to Judicial Watch.
What other reason would there be for Chelsea to be able to access it? And I don't think that Chelsea had security clearance to read classified information either. And if she did read some, could she be charged with something?
The author also goes into great detail about the exparte meeting that Bill and Lynch had on her plane. That alone should have made her recuse herself.
There is no way that Comey couldn't find anything to charge Hillary with.
And besides this article, here's another one that shows why Hillary should be charged.

The non-disclosure agreement (NDA) is executed by all who have access to classified and sensitive information. It is beyond doubt that Hillary Clinton executed one of these while secretary of State. It is also beyond doubt that she violated her NDA, the “special confidence and trust” that such access confers, and the law.

This standard NDA delineates the conditions and prohibitions of disclosing, storing and maintaining classified and sensitive compartmented information (SCI). These documents repeatedly refer to the specific statutes under the laws that govern transgressions of these requirements as well as acknowledgement and awareness of the “special confidence and trust” that this access confers.

The signatory also agrees never to divulge classified or SCI material, to adequately protect classified and SCI material and to return all classified and SCI material in their possession under penalty of law.

ADVERTISEMENT
Last week, the director of the FBI publicly reported during his news conference and his testimony before Congress that Clinton was “extremely careless in ... handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.”
Without saying it directly, the FBI director substantiated a violation of this “special confidence and trust”; extensive violations of the laws delineated in a signed NDA; Clinton's conscious effort to circumvent accountability; her defiant and deceiving statements; and her publicly fabricated facts to quash public scrutiny.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/287652-hillary-...

A

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

reflectionsv37's picture

Love this from the article:

This division of attention would be consistent with the widespread allegation that Clinton was busy serving her family Foundation at the same time she was serving the public.

Gee, ya think? It's amazing how they make this sound like it might have happened? Let's see, it's widely known that Hillary's aide, Huma Abedin, was on the payroll of the Clinton Foundation while she was in the State Department and also getting another check from Teneo corporation at the same time. And they consider it an "allegation" that Hillary was performing work for the Clinton Foundation??? Maybe it just happened and she never had the "intent".

I sure hope someone in the FBI is still digging into this mess. Sadly, I suspect any effort being put in by the FBI is covering up the tracks and making sure it never sees the light of day.

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

The worst part is the classified leaks violated so many laws and should be enough to convict her. However, it is the Clinton Foundation secrets that would allow her to be convicted of treason.

What else would you call a sitting SOS who sells political influence to foreign governments for personal gain

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Yes, this is the big, smoking gun pointed at the Constitution and Hillary's hands are covered in gun residue. "Out, out, damn spot." However, it is abundantly clear at this point that Obama is dirty up to his chin in this and will do everything to subvert justice for the American people. Exhibit #1:
Comey declines to indict >Lynch accepts Comey's recommendation after meeting with Bill on the tarmac >Obama campaigns with Hillary >RICO corruption case re. Clinton Global Initiative disappears down rabbit hole. There's no way this administration will allow any stinkin' Hillary crud to gum up his legacy. What that legacy actually is remains debatable.

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riverlover's picture

had to sign non-disclosure agreements. Still sounds smelly, but that would be highly irregular for an investigation.

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sojourns's picture

going into overtime. Advantage -- ??

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

4 years of Clinton Impeachment Hearings start and continue until she is out of office...
Mark my words...

4 more years of government paralysis...

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
elenacarlena's picture

Repubs. They don't care about charging or discrediting her before the convention, when we could then have Bernie as our candidate. They will wait until after the convention, try to use it to bring in Trump, and if that doesn't work, use it to tie her up for four years. Sigh.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Edit: answering:

... 4 more years of government paralysis...

If we're very, very lucky. The 99% won't like anything President Hillary is likely to do for her corporate/billionaire masters...

Although the Republicans will probably support all of the very worst ones, especially the multiple attacks on various countries likely to end the world via MAD with Russia or some similar scenario.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

riverlover's picture

This drags him down into a hole, too. Although Hill is using the "disconnected" defense. Can a sitting POTUS pull that one off about his SoS for 4 years?

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sojourns's picture

Obama's hands are much dirtier with the emails and whatever laundering schemes perpetrated by the Clinton foundation than I ever imagined... When he's out of office, it won't matter as former presidents cannot be prosecuted for crimes committed while in office.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

riverlover's picture

I also feel he's up to his neck.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

In democracy, nobody is above the law. Unlimited power corrupts absolutely - immunity from the penalties of all criminal acts committed while in office ensures that criminals will hold such office as allows for this.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

sojourns's picture

An old constitutional provision, the history of which I have not researched. It does not apply to high crimes and misdemeanors while in office as Nixon can attest to that.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Thanks! Probably intended to prevent frivolous or malicious charges being brought against a sitting President by partisans/self-interests?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Ever! C'mon people what more evidence do you need? The fix is in, they have too many connections and too much money. This is America 2016, corrupt as hell and not getting better.

Peace & Love

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I have watched many evil fucks get their Just rewards before leaving this planet and the Clintons will get theirs. Hopefully they wont get to do to much more damage before that time.

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What rich Republican ever experienced karmic punishment?

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

living the last years of his life not knowing anyone or anything.

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Ignorance is Bliss, and by then in his condition, no one was more ignorant. Thanks for playing.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Lookout's picture

It seems that our beloved FBI Director is or until very recently was a director and board member of HSBC, which is tightly connected to the Clinton Foundation. Check out some of these links:

http://www.hsbc.com/news-and-insight/2013/former-us-deputy-attorney-gene...
“Mr. Comey’s appointment will be for an initial three-year term which, subject to re-election by shareholders, will expire at the conclusion of the 2016 Annual General Meeting.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/10/hillary-clinton-foundati...
“Clinton foundation received up to $81m from clients of controversial HSBC bank”

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/search/node/HSBC
It’s like a revolving door of money and special projects that the bank and the CF are involved in.

This is the same HSBC that was accused of laundering drug cartel money, was heavily involved in the LIBOR scandal, and who knows what else, and all while our esteemed FBI Director James “she didn’t intend it” Comey was part of the senior leadership.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

I Bern for justice. For a change.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.