Ralph Nader: "Bernie’s endorsement set Hillary up for ‘political betrayal"

Submitted by pfiore8 on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 5:14pm

When I'd heard Bernie Sanders had endorsed Hillary Clinton, I listened to the speech but didn't think about it critically: like, i didn't look for some hidden meaning. I was disappointed, but not blown away by it. And I'm grateful to Senator Sanders for helping this movement evolve and gain credibility.

Anyway, after the endorsement it seemed Berniecrats were seeing jesus in their toast points: posting how this was some miracle move, this was some kind of strategy, and the craziest one: he had to endorse her or he'd lose his delegates (???????) . . . and I just shrugged it all off as wishful thinking.

But wait. Ralph Nader called Sanders' endorsement speech "brilliant."

Whaaaaat?

...a very astute endorsement
"While many Democrats breathed an enormous sigh of relief when Bernie Sanders took the stage earlier today to finally endorse Hillary Clinton, his speech left many questioning the authenticity of his support. Was Sanders really finally backing the presumptive nominee? It often sounded like he was touting the success of his own campaign more than he was showing support for Clinton.

In an interview with Jorge Ramos, political activist and author Ralph Nader suggested there was, in fact, a strategy behind Sanders’ endorsement, and called the speech “brilliant.”

Nader said that listing off the many promises Clinton has made on issues like student aid, immigration reform, and minimum wage, Sanders was actually making a self-serving move.

“He set her up for political betrayal, which would allow him to enlarge his civic mobilization movement after the election and after she takes office,” Nader told Ramos.

I think I'll leave it where Nader does and if something else happens at the convention: fabulous. other than that, I'm voting for Jill Stein.

////swish\\\\

Tags:

#Ralph Nader #BernieSanders #endorsement

Vote

Comments

Submitted by katie on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 5:40pm

Bernies' no fool, and has been at this for a long

time.

While I may or may not agree with him about his timing (I do), it's really neither here nor there. I never thought he'd break 10 - 20% support so I didn't begin by supporting Sanders the candidate, but his platform (though I'm to the left of it).

Then there was a little time that I thought he just might have a chance to get the nomination against all odds. But that didn't last long.

Then I went back to supporting his platform. Or, to be more precise, a growing movement, which would not be where it is without either Sanders or his supporters. We should all be grateful to both him and all those who have given time and money.

I will be forever grateful for Sanders, who always said he'd never concede to a Repub (again, it's not about agreeing or disagreeing with his stance - but it's what he's always said).

Now we just need to stick together, continue to work hard to grow this movement in any way folks feel comfortable, etc....

Personally, I think Sanders' timing was smart, the Dem Party and the media were gearing up for a scorched earth policy regarding his platform and his supporters, as evidenced by both Congress booing him and Clinton releasing an attack add "accidently".

I don't think the movement is strong enough to withstand a scorched earth policy by both our own government and our media. I might be wrong, but that's my feeling.

Submitted by Haikukitty on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 5:45pm

You may be right, Katie

I didn't think of that. There are lots of lower info voters (people who don't spend all day talking politics on blogs!) who liked what they heard from Sanders. Now, he's pinned it on Hillary. We all know she won't do it - but the more we can accustom people to these ideas as a POSITIVE goal, the more likely we can achieve them.

If they had gone all out against his policy ideas, all but the most plugged in would have been swayed that none of it is possible.

And I would have been subjected to SERIOUS MSM anti-Bernie talking points for all quarters, so I'm glad I can avoid that, at least.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:18pm

hi HK

you make a good point: "but the more we can accustom people to these ideas as a POSITIVE goal, the more likely we can achieve them."

that's the power of good energy and ideas!

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by k9disc on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:55pm

Positive Affect

Just hearing the stuff he said, with such reliable delivery, has been great for America. Some positive affect for a human agenda in politics and a direct naming of an opponent of that agenda -- on Repeat1 for a year has been huge for the American collective conscience.

It's spitting into the wind, but it did create and stroke the receptors for the human agenda in the American political BrainMind largely with positive affect, and that's pretty amazing.

—

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 8:02am

this is why it is so important to get people to SPEAK UP

but first, they have to start to see some people taking all the blows before their justice genes kick in... and I believe most of us have the ability to want justice.

positive energy, like Jung's universal unconscious, is palpable. and knowable.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by pfiore8 on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:16pm

i have to admit

didn't give it much thought other than: how did they reel Bernie back in? While both Sanders and Clinton are part of the system, Bernie is tethered to it while Clinton is structurally a part of its beating heart. I thought Sanders was finding power in working outside the system.

If Sanders wasn't going to win the nom, I'd hoped he would not endorse her. I really like Nader's analysis, but wonder at what point we simply stop playing their game and move onto our own board with our own rules. In the end, Clinton can always say Sanders knew this was all "pie-in-the-sky" election talking points and he endorsed her knowing it likely wouldn't happen because he too is an insider. The downside of his endorsement, imo.

I will say this about Bernie: he hardly makes a false move. So between that observation and Nader's analysis, I find your take fits right into this new way of looking at Sanders' endorsement.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by MsGrin on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:32pm

'I will say this about Bernie: he hardly makes a false move'

Yup.

—

'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Submitted by Dallasdoc on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 10:50am

I finally listened to Bernie's speech last night

And I had thoughts similar to Ralph's. Bernie characterized Hillary Clinton as having views remarkably similar to those in Bernie's stump speech, which we all know she doesn't. But he endorsed this straw-man version of "Hillary" who agrees with Bernie on almost everything. In doing so he can continue to campaign for "Hillary" while in reality continuing to basically give his stump speech. He can thereby try to hold her to the phony promises she's currently making to try to sucker Sanders supporters into the fold.

Bernie is setting things up for after the election, when he no doubt fully intends to hold President Hillary to her promises. When she breaks them, he wants to make it perfectly clear that she is doing so. This is about his continuing to battle for the soul of the Democratic party. He's already committed to playing this inside game, and has been since he announced his presidential candidacy. Good -- he should continue doing that. But we can still focus on the outside game, to change politics despite the Democratic party rather than through it.

—

Please help support caucus99percent!

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 11:10am

hey Doc!

glad to be in the same thread with you over here... finally!

you give form to something we've been dancing around: with Bernie playing the inside game and the rest of us playing our game outside the system, it gives us more leverage and options than we might otherwise have. it becomes imperative to stay connected with those still left on the inside.

it should be, in fact, part of our strategic incursions.

also thought of this: Washington finally beat the Brits using retreat as a strategy.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Dallasdoc on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 11:22am

The other night I was re-reading one of my TOP diaries

... just to review the comments. It was a post-mortem on the 2014 midterm loss, entitled No Scapegoats. Time to Face Facts. Like many of my diaries, it was a compendium of comments I got tired of repeating over and over. The concluding paragraph is worth considering again at this point, if you will allow my to quote myself.

Progressives have to learn to play both the inside and the outside game. We need our Elizabeth Warrens and our Jeff Merkleys and our Alan Graysons inside the party standing up to the Morgan cocksuckers running it. We need our Kshama Sawants and Bernie Sanders' and Bill McKibbens and Rev. William Barbers to put pressure on the party from the outside, too. The only way we're ever going to take over the Democratic party is if enough catastrophic losses weaken the hold of the FIRE puppetmasters enough for a progressive movement to swoop in. We need to build that movement, outside the party veal pen, where it won't be co-opted from the start. Progressives haven't built their Tea Party. We're behind the Republicans, whom we deride as stupid. They're smarter than we are in knowing how hopeless their party leaders are, even though they're dumb enough to not recognize the billionaires co-opting their anger. We don't have billionaires on our side to fund an outside insurrection. That's a curse, but also a blessing. We have to do it for ourselves.

Looked at from this perspective, Bernie's campaign has given him the opportunity to act both as an outsider and an insider. He's focusing more on the insider game since he declared as a presidential candidate, but his power and influence will continue to flow from outsiders. We on the outside don't even need to follow Bernie's lead. He can point to us as we organize and gain power, and make his insider appeal more compelling if we can grow stronger.

—

Please help support caucus99percent!

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 11:35am

there have been a few of us clamoring to have the progressive

version of Tea Party for some time now... in fact, the rank and file use it as an insult. they even (some crazy person Margaret POA) screams at me that she's seen me at C99P and she knows my game . . .

but i admit, it is a guilty pleasure going to TOP place to keep poking the zombies there... here's my most recent comment to Chris Bowers analysis of the differences between Hill and Bernie:

i find the whole analysis lacking, because it doesn’t dig any deeper than official narratives. WHY? If the official narrative is that the economy is booming… why are people, of all ranges of working class, race, and age (because of course the official narrative wants us to believe only the young and foolish would buy into Sanders’ pie-in-the-sky) revolting against the status quo? We now have (thank the gods) WHITE PEOPLE stopping traffic to protest murder by police of our black brothers and sisters… We are fed up with the system. We tried to explain this HERE at dKos, but too many people hanging on by their finger nails didn’t want to hear it… change as an ambiguous concept, just a word thrown around is fine . . . but when someone and then groups of people can begin to articulate exactly what kind of change they want and how… well, suddenly exploding platitudes and prayers fall like sharp shards of glass over everything.
This analysis is way short of insightful enough . . . it states the obvious but without the courage to look at the possibilities: like, was there a level playing field for Dem candidates in this primary? How do we handle our own making such accusations? Dismiss? Investigate? Placate? What?

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Dallasdoc on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 12:45pm

Groupthink over there is self-reinforcing

There at least used to be a fairly even debates between partisans and idealists, but after Markos jumped in with both feet on one side of the scale it has become the House of Democratic Orthodoxy over there. They're about as welcoming of heterodox opinions as the Spanish Inquisition. People like the one you cite can be reasonable in many cases, but when deeply-cherished belief systems are challenged they are ready to burn those they disagree with at the stake. Many of them are probably not like that IRL, but the "burn the witches!" mentality over there has taken over. This is a deliberate creation of the proprietor and his employers, like all religious orthodoxies which serve to buttress those in power.

—

Please help support caucus99percent!

Submitted by Roger Fox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 12:51pm

It sort of has been the game plan

Since brandnewcongress.org was formed April 5th. The Nexus that became BNC proly started many weeks prior.

—

FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Submitted by KnotIookin on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 9:45am

A. YUP. Bernie made a brilliant move by endorsing her.

and doing it by basically outlining HIS progressive agenda while she stood there doing her best imitation of a bobble head (smile)

And then SHE perf usery praised Bernie... Echoed her support for HIS progressive agenda and praised sanders democrats to the high heavens lol

For ME Bernie's best line was announcing he will "campaign in every corner of the country". And I have no doubt he will be giving his revised STUMP speech and pointing out that HRC has given Her full throated support for things like free public college and NO to TPP .

In endorsing her Bernie has basically put the Clinton wing in political CHECK ... With checkmate in sight.

Haven't seen such an interesting game of chess since the Spassky/Fischer matchup

—

Orwell was an optimist

Submitted by Librarycat on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 8:42pm

Scorched Earth Policy

Can you explain what you mean by a scorched earth policy and that the movement is not strong enough to withstand one, please? Thank you.

—

Heidi Foglia

Submitted by Steven D on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 9:13pm

Full out attack on Sanders

credibility, etc. and on his supporters. If she can't get Bernie supporters to vote for her she'd rather turn them off altogether on voting figuring she would still win the general with GOP pickups even if the party took a big hit down ballot. Sanders has an interest in enlarging the size of Dems in Congress and especially progressive Dems. A scorched earth attack on him and Sandernistas would then lead to the establishment party blaming him, his ideas, his stupid supporters, etc for its own failure losing down ballot races rather than Hillary. It would drive young people away from the Dems, and destroy the progressive caucus, but that doesn't matter to Hillary (or to the DNC/DLC/New Democrat) types either. It's her turn, remember. That is literally all, she cares about. Remember the Hillary Victory Fund scam? I rest my case.

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 3:12am

you don't mince words, Steven!

your analysis of Clinton reminds me why my gut heaves when I think of her.

over at TOP, they keep saying we are like the Tea Party. i guess they don't realize it's something we've been working towards (of course a sane group focused on common good but still bwahahahahahaha)

keep up the great reporting Steven. glad you dropped by here so I could tell you... it would have gotten lost in your essay with so many comments (wow! is this the first one to breach 200???)

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by WoodsDweller on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 8:28am

We are like the Tea Party

In their eyes we are. They are the Centrist Party, the neoliberal/neoconservative consensus, the single party with two jerseys that serves the interests of big business, big empire, and the wealthy. We are not centrists, the Tea Party are not centrists, and as far as the Centrist Party is concerned that's all that matters. We, together with the Tea Party, are the Other, to be shunned and exploited. We all look alike, and probably taste like chicken.

—

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

Submitted by tle on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 9:45am

I can't really agree with that.

The Tea Party was quickly captured by the fascists and racist nationalists. The perfectly rational arguments they were making disappeared, and they are now viciously insane. Which is just fine with the Corporate Autocracy Janus Party.

I don't see the progressive movement being captured that way. Which means that the Demopublicans probably hate us more.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 11:15am

abso_fucking_lutely

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by lunachickie on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 6:15pm

True story!

Something else to consider, though--they're trying to co-opt the dis-affected Dems and indies who are hip to the neolib song and dance. More often than not, though, we're a little too smart for that. Which is a pleasant thought, but it's resulted in us all having to be extra-vigilant to fake people and fake things.

Witness all their "circular movements"--the pleasant, not-the-least-bit-dangerous Organizations that magically spring up out of nowhere overnight, with things like "celebrity endorsements" or "wall-to-wall Twitter and Facebook audiences" before you've barely heard of them (The New Big Thing!), and suck you into devoting your time and energy Helping Them Advance Their Noble-Sounding Cause Because You Can Do It Too!

It's kind of hard to explain, but a good example is the Jon Stewart/Steven Colbert Televised Rally, where many, many Concerned Americans from all over the country came to DC to an all-day rally on a Saturday afternoon, sometime in (I want to say) late 2010/early 2011. This thing seemed to spring up overnight and out of nowhere, and it just happened to steal a lot of thunder from a long-planned rally/march/protest from a legit advocacy group (dammit! I can never remember what their thing was, but they were serious) Meanwhile, of course, Stewart turned this into ratings, and it was no doubt corporate-funded, essentially (by the television network or management of the Stewart/Colbert shows, which I believe used to be Viacom), and sprang up out of nowhere. And then, after they did all that work and/or raised money? Anybody remember seeing another one? No? Meanwhile, the real advocates and their goals were thwarted because the celebrities stole all their people thunder or kept people out of DC (because "volume", because "traffic", etc.)

Another way to think of is is as a "dilution" tactic, where they "organize" and occupy a bunch of progressive minds with a lot of stuff that sounds great, but it turns out to be superficial, useless bullshit. Which is a form of co-opting, because it wastes everybody's time while the real malfeasance continues unabated and untouched by concerned citizens that might otherwise rally a consensus against their criminal bullshit. In other words, they will go to great lengths and don't care how they stop you from stopping their malfeasance, as long as you stop. If nothing else, they'll keep you from trying to rally others to a consensus against their "leadership" and its corruption.

I guess they figured they couldn't bullshit us with endless Congressional witchhunts and couldn't find a reasonably-intelligent equivalent of Rush Limbaugh that could completely and effectively fling lowest-common-denominator fearmongering crao all over the far left, so they figured time-wasting fakeouts might help. They have, but I think we're getting a little better at sussing them out...

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 3:12pm

If I may add to your comment:

http://theweek.com/articles/491590/billionaire-koch-brothers-tea-party-p...

The billionaire Koch brothers: Tea Party puppetmasters?
The Week Staff
August 24, 2010

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-fenn/2011/02/02/tea-party-fund...

Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity
The Koch brothers have been pouring millions into conservative political causes for years.

By Peter Fenn | Contributor Feb. 2, 2011

... For many years, they have been involved in politics but not terribly open or transparent about it. It is true that David Koch ran as vice president on the 1980 Libertarian ticket, to the right of Ronald Reagan. According to New York Times columnist Frank Rich, “his campaign called for the abolition not just of Social Security, federal regulatory agencies and welfare but also of the FBI, the CIA, and public schools.” Since the Libertarian party’s 1 percent showing in 1980, David Koch has very much been behind the scenes, until now. [See who donates the most to your member of Congress.] ...

... But it has now come out how involved they have been in funding Tea Party groups, Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, and Citizens for a Sound Economy ($12 million). [Check out a roundup of political cartoons on the Tea Party.]

We do know, from Mayer’s reporting, that the Koch brothers have personally given over $2 million to candidates over the last 12 years, their PAC has contributed $8 million to candidates, and they have spent $50 million on lobbying. The Charles Koch Foundation has given $48 million, and another foundation they control gave $28 million. David Koch’s foundation gave more than $120 million. According to Mayer, $196 million dollars in total was distributed in the last 10 years to conservative causes and institutions. ...

... This past weekend the Koch brothers hosted a conference in Palm Springs that resembled an armed camp. Private Koch security was everywhere—manning every doorway and stairway within range of the conference. Reporters were confronted by private security guards and told to leave or they would be arrested, and a Common Cause official had his lunch reservation canceled and was told to check out of the hotel by Koch’s security detail. Young environmental activists were slapped with $100,000 law suits for demonstrating and engaging in pranks. A Politico reporter describes being thrown out and threatened with “a night in the Riverside County jail.”

All this while hiring an army of lawyers, PR flacks, political consultants, and pollsters to protect their “empire.” Everywhere there were folks spinning. Even reporters, who had been paid by Koch, attended the conference to “report” on what they “learned.” Well, Lord knows they have the money. ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/final-proof-the-tea-party_b_41...

Final Proof The Tea Party Was Founded As A Bogus AstroTurf Movement
10/22/2013 09:54 am 09:54:40 | Updated Jan 23, 2014

Eric Zuesse Investigative historian

Here is a screenshot of the Kochs’ 2002 introduction of their “Tea Party,” with a quotation from the original Tea Party’s leader, Sam Adams, back in 1773: ...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Crimson Buddha on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 11:29am

I certainly hope so.

over at TOP, they keep saying we are like the Tea Party

The Tea Party has done an expert job of moving the Republicans to the right by vigorously contesting primaries and generally scaring the shit out of the establishment.

I only hope we can enjoy half of their success.

Submitted by fred_mertz on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 7:17am

Destroy the progressive caucus?

Only if you wanted to make sure the 80% or so of Bernie supporters under 30 would never vote D again. In other words, the future. They could try, but it would only hasten the end of the establishment. If we hang together, the kids will fix this.

I for one agree with Nader on this ... she's given Bernie a platform from now until November at least that he would not have had before. And with the polls coming out of Quinnipac, I think they're going to eventually realize that demonizing the left isn't going to work out so well. She's losing to a ham sandwich.

Though Bernie is not going to be the nominee, the pressure is off of him (hey look, he endorsed!) and now squarely on her. He's said all along that his endorsement doesn't bring his movement. He's right. She now has to speak to our issues if she wants our vote. I'm laying in an extra popcorn supply for now until November for how she tries to put her campaign's Bernie supporter slagging toothpaste back into the tube. It's gonna be epic.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 8:00am

well, look what the DNC hasn't DONE in Kansas et al

it's like the mob dividing up territory : the DNC takes the coasts and the RNC gets the interior.

i've been pretty sure for some time now that all that rethug "obstructionism" is pure theater because the only ones NOT losing in this epic struggle between the good Dem prez and the bad rethug Congress are the 1%.

so yeah. the idea of destroying what they've allowed to sink into a fucking deep hole is pretty hilarious, now that we've acquired a special set of skills to see this bullshit for what it is and to organize to make it obsolete.

ps... as in Fred and Ethel?

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by fred_mertz on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 8:04am

The very same ...

Ethel's fine, she thanks you for asking.

Submitted by fred_mertz on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 8:38am

btw ...

I think you're spot on about the theatrical aspect of this. On the current path, the D's win the white house over and over, but they'll never see the house and the senate will be a tossup. almost as if you as the establishment couldn't have engineered it better ... hey now, wait a minute ...

Submitted by Roger Fox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 12:55pm

Obama and the obstructionists have been signing

the same tune.

Its called "Maintain the Status Quo". And its been at the top of the charts for nearly 8 years.

—

FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 3:18pm

... i've been pretty sure for

... i've been pretty sure for some time now that all that rethug "obstructionism" is pure theater because the only ones NOT losing in this epic struggle between the good Dem prez and the bad rethug Congress are the 1%. ...

By George, I think you've nailed it! And would add that the parasites are too stupid to see that they're killing off their hosts - and everyone's natural life support system - in the process.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Haikukitty on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 9:54am

Do you think the Clintons CARE if they destroy the party?

I don't - it's a classic case of "I got mine, sorry 'bout your luck" - She'll get her presidency and they'll get bigger and bigger paybacks, and once they've gotten what they wanted, whether the Dems survive will be of no interest to them. I honestly don't think any of the corporate Dems really care about the long-term viability of the Party. If they did, they'd make better decisions.

All of those establishment politicians are focused on one thing - getting theirs. And if that means running the Democratic party into the ground, so be it. They'll just retire to their lobbyist bought mansions and bunkers.

A little hyperbole here - I admit - but in essence, I think it's true that NONE of them are focusing on the long-term health of the Democratic Party.

Submitted by blue drop on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 1:14pm

yep

It's her turn, remember. That is literally all, she cares about.

she just wants her name in the history books. that's all it's ever been about. forget the principles of being president and "we the people."

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 3:23pm

But within decades there won

But within decades there won't be anyone left to read the history books, under the policies she's actually tended to enact/promote as Sec of State...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Librarycat on Wed, 07/27/2016 - 9:16pm

Thanks for explaining Steven

Thanks for explaining Steven D

—

Heidi Foglia

Submitted by mimi on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 5:59pm

I like what Nader is saying, especially that he believes

Trump in the end will not run and say "Adios" it was fun as long as it lasted, now do whatever you want and I have fun going back doing my business.

I guess Jeb Bush might just take a chance and come back...

—

https://www.euronews.com/

Submitted by pfiore8 on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:29pm

whoo boy, saw Jeb!

talking about how sacred voting was for him (while he probably stole the 2000 election for his brother but okay) and that he couldn't vote for either Trump of Clinton. the terrifying thing was how reasonable he sounded. and i thought: omg, these adrift Rethugs will jump on his ship.

we could take that story "The Lady or the Tiger" and embellish it a bit and call it "The Donald, Jeb! or Hillary" ... a bit more of a horrifying tale.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Haikukitty on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:40pm

The sad thing is Pfiore, I'd breathe a sigh of relief

if we got Jeb! in the end. Not only because I'd have four more years of typing Jeb! - but after this shitshow of a primary season, he seems FAR less threatening.

Sure, I wouldn't actually VOTE for him, but if he somehow managed to get in there, I'd sadly trust him more than Clinton not to drive us totally off the cliff. Weird, huh?

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 1:10am

He'd be serving the same

He'd be serving the same masters through the same betrayals Hillary would, and therefore doing the same things. The unconstitutional TPP, etc., which his sibling Bush initiated and Hillary promoted, offshores law, makes democracy extinct and government corporate management ensuring maximized corporate profits no matter the cost, death and damage to the people and countries involved. The same invasions and attacks on other countries would be conducted. This is why Wall St. and the others most wanted Jeb Bush, Hillary or Rubio as their candidates. They were pretty much interchangeable, I gather, with TPTB wanting a Bush/Clinton race so that either way, they'd have a Presidential lackey win.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Haikukitty on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 10:00am

This is true, Ellen

but I weirdly sense some humanity in him. Would he do the bidding of TPTB? Probaby. But I sense his heart isn't really in it.

Don't get me wrong, just like all the options, he would be detrimental to our future - we need someone with vision to correct our course pronto.

But Jeb! strikes me as being a little less cold-hearted than the rest.

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 3:56pm

Hi, Haikukitty!

Lol, need I mention that brother George W Bush apparently convinced many people that they'd like to have a beer with him? This might be just a wild-kitty-haired (ADORE your avatar, btw) radical notion of mine, but I do feel that criminals, however semi-human their persona may seem to some, are criminals and should be kept out of public office or any position of responsibility. Especially when they've been revealed as one of Wall St.'s favoured picks among their 3 main acceptables at varying times, Bush, Hillary and Christie/Rubio (the latter two exchanging as Christie got crunched like a cracker.

As you likely are, I'm still Berning for a miracle and, failing that, hoping for Greens to break the two-party trade-off of evil and I must add that any suggestion of another President Bush makes me metaphorically break out in (killer-bee-packed) hives.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/wall-street-republicans-hillary-cl...

Wall St. Republicans' dark secret

By Ben White and Maggie Haberman

04/28/14

... Two dozen interviews about the 2016 race with unaligned GOP donors, financial executives and their Washington lobbyists turned up a consistent — and unusual — consolation candidate if Bush demurs, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie doesn’t recover politically and no other establishment favorite gets nominated: Hillary Clinton.

Most donors and Wall Street titans have not lined up with any candidate yet, waiting for the field to take shape after the midterms. But if Bush doesn’t run, the list of Republican saviors could be short. ...

... “If it turns out to be Jeb versus Hillary we would love that and either outcome would be fine,” one top Republican-leaning Wall Street lawyer said over lunch in midtown Manhattan last week. “We could live with either one. Jeb versus Joe Biden would also be fine. It’s Rand Paul or Ted Cruz versus someone like Elizabeth Warren that would be everybody’s worst nightmare.”

Most top GOP fundraisers and donors on Wall Street won’t say this kind of thing on the record for fear of heavy blowback from party officials, as well as supporters of Cruz and Rand Paul. ...

I've long been wondering if Trump was running to make Hillary look good - but Bush has been out of the lime-light for a while, with his warts out of sight and mind, and if he's starting to look better to some by comparison to Hillary and Trump...

Edited because my end-of-quote dots were MIA.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Haikukitty on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 3:57pm

Sigh... I know you're right, Ellen.

First of all, I never got the beer thing. I don't want the leader of my country to be like someone at the corner bar. I want them to be the smartest, most focused, competent individual in the country.

Yes, Jeb! is a Bush, so he can't be that great or harmless, even if he seems more human.

Maybe sometimes it just comes down to which criminal is most palatable to which peon.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 3:15am

my first reaction? you made me laugh out loud!

you get to type Jeb! for four more years... i'm still laughing.

yeah. he's manageable and therefore will do more or less the same as Hillary, in my analysis. of course the danger of a rethug is serious regression on social issues. although i'm not sure: maybe there's more of a hit during a neoliberal turn in the Oval and when the neocons get it, it's more economic hits(because that's what we expect)

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Haikukitty on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 10:01am

Everytime I see "Jeb!" it makes ME laugh out loud.

Submitted by mimi on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:41pm

I did saw Jeb saying that, and I just thought

if the Republicans want to win after the Hot Air baloney one jumps from the cliff, they would be better off to win against HRC, if they chose a "moderate, reasonable" Republican a la Jeb Bush, because HRC and Jeb Bush are soul sister and brother, and it's hard to fight against someone of your own kind.

I would never vote for a Republican, at this point in time I wouldn't vote, even if I were allowed to.

Until I haven't understood why Stein and Sanders could not work together. It's not clear to me and stupid as I am, my mind freezes up into no motion as long I don't understand something. My bad.

—

https://www.euronews.com/

Submitted by LapsedLawyer on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 2:29am

Given the shit Jeb! pulled in the

Terry Schiavo case, he owns this crap his party is in. Trump's his monster.

—

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 3:23am

yeah, that shitstorm unleased the demons

and it made crazy fashionable

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Crimson Buddha on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 11:33am

That's why I can't stand Jeb!

Romney is looking really good right now, though. He did an okay job as governor and he strikes me as a bit less likely to start World War 3 than Hillary Clinton.

Submitted by tle on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 9:49am

I don't think the word "probably" belongs there.

Especially when I think of the 27,000 votes which were thrown out by the Duval County Supervisor of Elections, Mr. John may-he-burn-in-hell Stafford.

Submitted by elenacarlena on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 2:52am

Waal, Jeb! didn't entirely destroy Florida, did he?

It took Voldemort to do that.

Rick Scott

Voldemort1[1].jpg
Voldemort

Twins separated at birth?

—

Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 6:15am

holy shit, I knew I'd seen Scott somewhere before

that really is too freaky

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 10:04am

Maybe that is why he is flirting with Gingrich?

To spark a revolt at the Republican Convention? So he can say "The People wanted me but the politicians stole it."

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by OLinda on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:20pm

Good interview...

Thanks for posting it, pfiore8. I really like Jorge (and Ralph, too).

Submitted by pfiore8 on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:30pm

you are welcome OLinda

and I liked it too... but then, I've always been a Nader fan. Jorge has emerged as a reliable journalist in a sea of sychophants.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by stevej on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 6:41pm

The best

analysis of the speech yet. Bernie is a very astute politician and does not have a track record of going against his principles.

The hair on fire stuff yesterday was a bit much but understandable. Today's reactions seem much more reasonable.

—

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 3:25am

yes. exactly my reaction

and Nader has lots of credibility with me. he doesn't say this lightly because if he thought Sanders was being a tool, he'd say so.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Roger Fox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 1:03pm

The thing about Theater

there's a new episode each day, reacting to each episode like its the Season Finale is just what the producer of said theater is expecting. That said this has been the most exciting season in my adult lifetime.

OTOH this is an example of staying grounded ->

Bernie is a very astute politician and does not have a track record of going against his principles.

Clearly.

—

FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Submitted by The Wizard on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 7:56am

I choke on "after she takes office"

Has Obama been punished for not living up to "change you can believe in"? How's Guantanamo closing going? His penance for not living up to his promises was four more years.

I think that we are in the denial phase.

I gave to Jill yesterday, it helped (me) a lot!

—

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Submitted by CambridgePulsar1919 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 8:53am

agree with Nader

It was a wise strategic move for Bernie's movement.
This is Bernie calling the bluff of the DNC scum that opposed him. They claim to be liberal and progressive, and yet rarely act in a progressive manner.
Now, in 18 months when $$Hillary has taken no real steps to enact these changes, and possibly even largely rejected them, it will be clear to the hordes of Berners out there that the Dems really have no interest in being Democratic, nor progressive, and are just the center-right wing of the Oligarchy.
Of course most of them already strongly suspect that, but this will be the concrete evidence of the betrayal of the left by the Dems.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 10:29am

Nader's massive assumptions.

Nader's massive assumptions are that many Americans watched Standers' entire speech, made during a work day, and will remember it.

People who follow politics closely, like Nader and political posters, have a skewed conception of how "unclosely" other Americans follow politics. Most people will hear on the news or read a tweet that Sanders endorsed Hillary.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 11:14am

i don't think it matters, in this day and age, who saw Sanders

"endorsement" speech in real time. this is the age of youtube and Facebook memes and Hillary will not be able to escape the recorded record.

and without social media, Clinton is still on the record and she did NOT dispute Sanders talking points during his endorsement speech. so either way, Sanders is playing the long game while the rest of us are still trying to catch up.

i always thought it was funny how so many people attributed the 11 dimensional chess master status to Obama... who never outsmarted anybody but the electorate . . . I think Sanders is much closer because, as noted earlier, he rarely makes a false move.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Roger Fox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 1:20pm

Yes indeed

Sanders is playing the long game while the rest of us are still trying to catch up.

Sanders has waited his entire adult life. It took Sanders 40 or 50 years to get where he is now.

Hoped Bernie would fight with us
Bernie should run as a Indie
He sold out.
Bernie should run as a Green
He was threatened.

All of these things have been written at C99 recently, and I find them all disheartening.

Create and Wield political power.
Roger Fox 2016

—

FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 2:10pm

don't lose heart, Roger

in the first blush of it, we all tightened a little. how do we navigate this turn in the road.

as someone upthread said: just keep going. we are the beating heart of this thing.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Roger Fox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 3:10pm

Whats disheartening is the recently crap posted at C99

in the first blush of it, we all tightened a little. how do we navigate this turn in the road.

No, only those that didn't think it thru, and telegraph their own inexperience on Bernie.

i've been here at C99 for a while, joined in Feb of 2015 UID #135. I've never seen so much whiney ass crap being posted as i have over the last few weeks. Mostly by people who have zero clue as to how to create and wield political power in a political revolution. Mostly by people who were extolling Bernie's integrity just a few months ago.

I can't hardly read C99 anymore.

And realize I come at this from a Campaign Field ops angle. I built my own NY state voter database last August, with phone numbers. I acted as Communications Director and got Wetchester4bernie.org on the regional cable TV and papers.

My Suburban/rural county ranked #3 in completed door knocks in NY state, behind NYC and the city of Rochester.
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/04/02/new-york-p...
http://westchester.news12.com/multimedia/bernie-sanders-to-campaign-in-n...

I don't play at being revolutionary.

—

FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Submitted by Haikukitty on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 3:22pm

This too shall pass, Roger...

Or at least I hope it will.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 3:37pm

maybe this helps alittle, Roger

this isn't a site to promote or elect Democrats or any other political parties. but it is issue-oriented and nobody gets bojo'd or timed out. so keep at it . . . it would be a shame to lose someone like you... who could really mean a lot to this site and helping others do what you've done. social media is powerful... and the people here are much more likely to want to help set up in their communities what you've done. so stay around! this is how we take our country back!

btw... Bernie was clear: he would not run as an indie and if he wasn't the nom, he'd support whoever was. Let's just hope that he's positioned himself to become leader of the Senate Dems... screw any chairmanships. I hope he dropped himself right in there (and i realize Senate has to vote this) but . . . maybe they were in on the deal to get the endorsement. I don't know. but whatever it was, it came at a price. Interesting to see if Clinton pulls a Trump and doesn't pay.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Roger Fox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 4:29pm

.....take my ball and go home

people are not who I want in my foxhole. They are not reliable, as soon as the wind changes, they change.

Now, Bernie as Senate Majority Leader. I've been bouncing this idea around for a couple of weeks. Bernie now has a national constituency and has earned political capital. Lets see how he spends that capital. I don't mind engaging with someone who has the "balls" to think ahead & beyond the whims of media spin.

Bernie as Senate Majority Leader is clearly a laudable goal. Though I think Chuck Schumer might have something to say about that.

—

FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 5:03pm

omg . . . that whole meme at TOP drove me nuts

"you're like a petulant child stomping your feet and taking your ball and going home" when simply saying: I'm not voting for Clinton.

no site is perfect Roger. believe me. but the people who've come here, by and large, are more capable of thinking bigger and what you've been able to do is what many of us need to learn to do.

so take some time off, but reserve the benefit of your experience for those who will use it. most times, i don't engage. I stayed at TOP up until now because the bullshit needed a response.

this site has potential. and we could explore better and more effective ways to use social media. a real tool for real networks among these amazing small groups of people, many of whom have done big things with little resource. online tools for communities to help them carpool, register to vote, learn how to get on a ballot... what kinds of laws can they use to stop fracking in their communities? how do they regain civilian control over cops (because we seem to have forgotten that most police depts are under control of towns, cities, counties and not an arm of the federal gov't or the military).

there's a lot we can do. how to run an effective campaign to stop restaurants from using plastic... with great talking points and solid data . . . i mean there are tons of things we could do, if we look past social media as only a giant online conversation.

anyway, think about it.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Unabashed Liberal on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 4:41pm

Thank you, peef, in saying

. . . this isn't a site to promote or elect Democrats or any other political parties. but it is issue-oriented and nobody gets bojo'd or timed out. . .

Yes, it's a nonpartisan site--no loyalty oaths to candidates, or parties are required.

And, as you mentioned, we're very much issues-oriented.

Mollie

“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption

Misty May - NMDR

—

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Submitted by Amanda Matthews on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 12:44pm

Oh Yay! More eleventy-dimensional chess, It's worked so

well up to now.

There's no way to reform the 'Democratic' Party. It is now the property of the Third Way Neo-Liberals

—

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 2:11pm

LOL

the problem is you need to find a real chess master...

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by Roger Fox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 1:23pm

Nader is not too far off target

If one considers Zack Exely's brandnewcongress.

which would allow him to enlarge his civic mobilization movement after the election

Which was the plan back in February or March.

—

FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 4:37pm

Here's an interesting video

from Mikki Willis: https://www.facebook.com/mikki.willis/videos/941123759331916/

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 5:33pm

Thanks for the link!

Also, yours led me to this old thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpk0GKkorec

BREAKING: Bill & Hillary Clinton Have FIVE Shell Companies! [Truth&Comedy]

Redacted Tonight

Published on Apr 17, 2016
This week, Lee Camp covers shell companies. They’re reserved mainly for criminals, bankers, and the Clintons! That’s right, Bill and Hillary have been using shell corporations to move money around without anyone sticking their noses into their business. What could they be doing with this shell money? Lee Camp investigates this and more on Redacted Tonight.

Well, Hillary, as Sec of State, was protecting corporations from having to pay Haitian garment workers a whole 61 cent an hour minimum wage... just wait until this is normalized among corporate assets (which used to be democratic countries) due to the 'trade bills' she promoted as Sec of State, along with fracking...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Sat, 07/16/2016 - 10:28am

They are just horrible people!

I don't get it. I just don't get it. They must have a lot of favors coming due. That's what they've done these last 8 years - racked up "favors" now coming due.

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by bondibox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 6:36pm

Could the people ever take that party back?

I used to believe the people who told me to work within the system to make the Democratic party better. If I didn't like the party bosses or leaders, I should help to support better ones. Someday we would extricate the party from the grip of the corporatocracy.

Ha!

Bernie says his strategy is to try and fix the Democratic party. He's good, but I doubt that he's that good.

—

F the F'n D's

Submitted by pfiore8 on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 6:49pm

maybe he's not trying to "fix" it

but remake it . . . maybe what he's looking for is simply to keep the name "Democrat" and, as for the rest, perhaps he'd like it to be an empty shell and start from ground up with Sanders Dems.

because you can't fix this kind of broken.

—

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Submitted by bondibox on Thu, 07/14/2016 - 8:38pm

Not only can you not fix it

But remaking, fixing, or whatever requires that the corruption be purged. It's a noble thought but not realistic. Is corruption supposed to disappear? Or pack up its bags and remain exclusively sequestered in the GOP? Hell no. Because corruption will always play both sides of the fence. That's the problem with a binary political system. Democrats used to smugly believe that ours was the party beyond reproach, that's a myth. The only hope for the Democrats is if the progressive caucus (or whoever) becomes big enough to split the vote, with any victory requiring an alliance, thus requiring the Dems to get their act together and work a little harder on removing the appearances of impropriety.

—

F the F'n D's

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 10:33am

The vote will be split--it has begun splitting already.

The only hope for the Democrats is if the progressive caucus (or whoever) becomes big enough to split the vote

Of course, we older folks all remember the election of 1856, right? There was a new outfit in town (WDC) called the Republican Party, which of course has as much of a resemblance to the current party as Dwayne :the Rock" Johnson has to Woody Allen. The Whigs won the Presidential election--and then by 1860, they were dead. We are entering a new era, sparked by Bernie, but with its origins decades ago. The peaceful political revolution of mid-19th century politics was not accomplished over one election cycle--it took several. The time frame this century may be a bit longer. Yet, if those citizens who are informed as to the massive corruption continue to educate and fight for reform, then we may just stand a chance. I would actually like to see a vibrant, multiparty system, made up of at least 3 relatively equal strong parties. Four strong parties might work well, but after that (4 parties) you have reached the point of diminished returns.

Submitted by bondibox on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 6:23pm

Yuuuuge problem with 3 or 4 parties in Presidential election

The way our electoral system works, with 3 strong candidates it's possible that none will achieve 270 electoral votes, and then it goes to the U.S. House, where the state caucuses (50) will vote for the winner.

With the way the House districts are gerrymandered, it's pretty messed up. Right now we've got 33 sure fire GOP majority House state caucuses, 14 Democrat, and 3 evenly split. Basically a 2:1 margin for the GOP, but we could easily see a non-GOP candidate get the most votes and the most electors, and not win the election.

—

F the F'n D's

Submitted by riverlover on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 6:29pm

That does not mean Don't Go There.

It means that the entire governmental edifice was built to withstand the thought. Push through that.

—

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 5:38pm

Yup, many of the rotten old

Yup, many of the rotten old components would need to be replaced. It might be easier to replace the whole stinking mess with the Green Party, though - although they do not have the structure in place that the Dems do, or the symbolic name recognition they so signally fail to live up to.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by elenacarlena on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 3:01am

I enjoyed that speech more than I thought I would. Bernie

with his "Hillary understands" as he extols his own talking points. Hillary standing there with stiff posture and plastic smile and bobble-headed nodding. Priceless!

—

Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Submitted by Writerinres on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 10:52am

Purity test; Bernie's motives; eleventh-dimensional chess; c99%

Good for you, Roger. We bad, you and Bernie good. Divergent arguments, I thought, were welcome here, so long as facts are presented and nobody engages in curses and name-calling. How dare we question or speculate on Bernie's motives! How dare we feel at all! We are not worthy. Thank you, Roger, for guilt-tripping those among us who dare to think beyond slogans like: "We're taking the revolution to the convention!"

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 5:39pm

But Bernie is taking the

But Bernie is taking the revolution to the Convention! ???

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.