"So I sez to her, I sez, Mabel!" (VI)
My, my, my.
I occasionally go to Daily Kos to read if one person in particular has made either comments or recommendations. If there's a comment, I read it. If there's a recommendation of a diary, I just read the title.
While I'm searching the name, I do read some of the rec list titles and I noticed Markos is railing again about Progressives Who Are Not Falling In Line.
I find this instructive only in the sense that one of the DNC mouthpieces chooses to publicly vent this way. After all, no Progressive in their right mind will be persuaded by this kind of rhetoric. And as red meat to the Clintonites, eh.
The change over from electoral partisan to issues oriented citizen has been and still is quite the bumpy ride.
How do you fight a rigged system?
Bernie is correct in saying that we need "millions and millions" of our brothers and sisters standing up to this rigged system - for what we lack in power, we make up for in numbers.
Electoral politics are broken - yet electoral partisans from both parties have yet to realize this and cling to that broken system, lashing out at anyone who tries to pull back the curtain.
And if power alone were invested in electoral office, then why are the corporate lobbyists and bankers and such so politically powerful? They weren't elected. They took over our elected representatives.
How many times have we seen politicians elected who had very good ideas and whose heads were in the right place get eroded after time by having to play the fundraising game, little by little ceding more and more time and attention to their donors rather than their constituents?
So electing "better" or "more" is meaningless if the rigged system remains rigged. Even the best politician, if they want help from the Party, has to play the game. And that game inevitably leads to corruption. That's the "rigged" part.
I see a glimmer of authenticity when I watch the Dem Platform Committee deal with the issues brought up by Bernie's picks. Even the votes are instructive, even they pull back that curtain a little more.
I have no plans to remain in the Democratic Party unless Bernie is the nominee. But that's the game in town right now, so I'm paying attention to how each step Bernie and his team make pull that curtain back even more.
I donated to Bernie's fund to help his delegates get to Philly. Those people have my great admiration and respect for fighting so hard in these difficult times to make all our voices heard.
Here's some lagniappe - one of my new faves, Tim Black, on Bill Clinton's meet-up with Loretta Lynch:
Comments
Love it...
"or the Democratic Nominee"
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
We are all insane if we think
We are all insane if we think Hillary is going to be indicted. That's how bad the system is rigged.
I'm telling you, people. We need tar and feathers.
I've got couple of chickens who were willing to go half naked to thwart a fox. Are we that brave?
Well, if the FBI does indeed
Well, if the FBI does indeed indict Killary, they may not have their establishment candidate, and Bernie may get it via her being carted off to see a Judge and maybe we will see the end of Clintons as part of the Beltway gang? Oh one can wish!
So long, and thanks for all the fish
npk, thank you thank you
for bringing Tim Black to my world!
What in the world happened on that plane?
Obama didn't mention Clinton's name?
What in the world is THAT all about?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Tim Black ...
... posted for a VERY brief time, heh, at DK and was summarily banned.
I followed him on Twitter and inevitably started listening to his show. He's the real deal, imo.
Beat in the USA.
well, of course he got
hammered, like Grayson, Ted Rall, and how Moyers can still post there is a mystery.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Little Markos reminds me of Trump, given his thin skinned
nature and his penchant for putting his name on his business. dailyKOS....uh ok, little guy. put your name on it, but DailyHill would at least be more accurate.
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
Or, as I think of it, “Triumph of the Hill”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will
Not bad, but you set me up
you shouldn't besmirch Riefenstahl's memory by comparing Hillary to her. Riefenstahl had great optics.
On to Biden since 1973
But, but, they're so diverse over there and we're so white!
They're WAY more tolerant of diversity than us, haven't you heard?
#BernMadeMeWhiteMale
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Has anyone issued him an invitation to post here?
I would so love to visibly outdo the other place in diversity!
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It's quite an eye-opener
... once you don't feel a part of a political party. The differences between the two parties shrink in importance, while the similarities become more glaring and harder to ignore. Both the leadership and the dedicated followers of both parties are so strikingly similar that the doctrinal differences pale in significance. It's similar to the feeling I've always had looking at various religious denominations and their squabbles, while never feeling a part of any of them.
Being an ex-partisan who's also a would-be partisan -- if only there were a party worth joining -- is an odd feeling, after being a Democrat my whole life. I haven't registered independent, but no longer really feel a part of that party. I didn't leave the party, the party left me, as the saying goes. I know why, and who it left me for, and detaching leaves a welcome calmness. Watching the frantic willful self-delusions of partisans at TOP, and the tired propaganda exercises of the media, makes me grateful to Bernie for freeing me. It also fills me with a combination of pity and loathing for those who are still where I used to be.
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This:
... says it perfectly.
Beat in the USA.
Pity and loathing is correct.
And then I feel guilty for pitying the Lost, trying to stay humble and all, unsuccessfully. Loathing after our treatment as apostates. And yes, oddly liberating.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Know watcha mean, DDoc
I have struggled with Tea Party Types about the both parties do it" meme, and I can now emphatically say, "yes! Both parties are destroying our country using the exact same methods!"
Their money, after all, comes from the same group.
I am not a Democrat, after 60 years, and I am really a free damn bird.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I posted this on another site...
...in a they're the same/they're NOT the same discussion.
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
I had to look up kayfabe. Interesting.
We totally need a word like that, I've had the feeling it's all for show for a long time.
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Other handy terms from the world of Wrasslin: Jobber & Heel
It is the mission of a Jobber to execute a convincing loss. The best Jobbers almost win but their victory is snatched away by an act of skulduggery by the Heel.
http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/Jobber#Jobbers
http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/Heel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_professional_wrestling_terms
In our own Battle Royal: Beat Down in the Beltway, the DC Kayfabe that passes for democracy in our living dysfunction, the NeoLib Dems are the Jobbers, the Batshit Republicans are the Heels, Obama is the Face, the Moneyed Interests are the McMahons and what passes as Journalsts are the Mean Gene Okerlunds and the Courts, DoJ, SEC, etc. are the ineffectual Refs.
Bernie could not be allowed to succeed because he broke Kayfabe. It's as simple as that.
And looking at things this way, it is little wonder that Teh Donald is very successful in this staging. He is, after all, a member of the WWE Hall of Fame.
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
Kayfabe works for DC politics, too
Same as Kabuki, two political parties putting on a show of opposition while delivering the same results.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
Bookmarked. Thanks! It's perfect.
Expanded List -- Pamphlet.
Thanks for the list I would like to see the list a bit more filled out:
Big Spy: "Corporate (Clinton) Democrats: In favor of the xxx Act "blah blah blah", which and stated that 'blah blah blah"...
I know! Its difficult where one candidate has taken opposing stances depending on what church she is waving her arms around and what camera she is cackling in front of.
The thing is, I follow more of the often obscure foreign "policy" things and nothing of the internal USA affairs. "War-mongering" and "regime change" is pretty general when compared to "hospital funds in Haiti never used for the hospital and donations by "blah blah blah".
I also don't follow the Tea Party, although about 1/2 of what Johnson (libertarian, not exactly the same?) says seems agradable. I mean, ending the drug war and ending surveillance etc. Green sounds close enough to Bernie so after the convention we might want to use that platform. I might have something to say about making college tuition free by proposing "any person" being added to "education from K to Ph.D. is a basic human right" but frankly don't know enough about USA internal politics to say much unles I can compare with Bolivia and Dominica.
So if the list could be posted as a pinned essay for filling out by the many experts here on one thread (or group??), maybe we can put together a freely distributable pamphlet and a series of memes in the next week. (Time is of the essence). Mybe such an item already exists?
Note, or question: Do all the candidates laugh before most difficult questions? Is that a woman thing or an exclusive Clinton thing? Or am I just internally sexist enough to hear only Hillary's cackling and ignore the men cackling (except Bush's damn smirk)?
Whatever, I usually love to hear women and girls laugh... Clinton's, like Bush's smirk, seems inappropriate.
From the Light House.
Libertarians beleive in strict laissez-faire economics
So I can never vote for one (except to stop Hillary). They are one stage better that Republicrats.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Some one with more git-up-n-go than me
Can put together a pamphlet/comparison chart on the issues. It's a good idea.
Laughing/smirking - not all pols do it but yes, it is an attempt to dismiss the question as naive or silly. The smirking chimp did it about as often as HRC and they do it to legitimate questions as a way to get out of answering them.
Bernie (& Weaver & Devine) have done it too, but only when the interviewer asks an extremely dumb question.
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
That's a good list.
Sadly, half of that list is things the TPers favor.
Ah ha!
There you are DD! Have missed you and wondered where/if I'd see you surface. I roam between here and Leipar's TheProgressiveWing and the redditt KossacksforSanders.
I occ go over to DK, to see the madness, to make a statement, to rec a pal. But it is madness over there. Centrist Dems Central. A full on propaganda arm of the DNC. The hate for Bernie is appalling and sad.
After 40 years as a Dem I will go Independent after the convention or if/when Hillary names her neocon/lobbyist admin. In my state we can vote in primaries.
Hope you and yours are thriving...
We're great, roonie, thank you
And I hope you can say the same. I read here fairly often, but don't comment much. Don't quite have the feel for Reddit, though, and haven't joined up at LD's joint. I like the crowd here, and feel comfortable among them. It's interesting watching the rules of discussion and disagreement evolve here, after the Lord of the Flies Atmosphere at my previous online home.
Two party systems work very hard to sustain themselves, and the power centers arrayed around our two parties are determined to defend them. It's somewhat disappointing to see so many people I used to respect so eager to fool themselves in service to a corrupt party. But I've long said that being smart and being stupid are far from mutually exclusive. I shouldn't be surprised. It's an useful lesson in humility.
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Lord of the Flies atmosphere.
That's for certain. I haven't been "over there" for several months now. At first I missed the people I was used to reading, but on the occasion I would check it out I'd be so disgusted that I no longer found much to miss.
You thought it was several months ago?
believe me it is much worse now. Lord of the Flies doesn't even begin to describe it.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I'll take your word for it SJ
No need to see for myself.
A wise decision :)
though there is a certain addictive quality to TOP - in a train wreck meets soap opera kind of way.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Look at the diaries being written now about Hillary
From previous Bernie supporters.
It's all about 'party unity' whatever the hell that means a over there
Markos wrote a diary today saying that the election is over, so there doesn't need to be a diary written about everything Bernie says that they don't like.
Bernie accomplished many things during his run, but the biggest thing I think he exposed is how far the democrats have moved away from helping we the people and taking money from the banks and corporations.
He gave an interview with Andrea yesterday and still was mentioning how much the people in this country are suffering economically and what the democrats can or need to do to fix it.
But the guy that wrote the article interjected his own thoughts about what Bernie was saying and people jumped in to agree with him.
Markos called that diary out stating that is what he is saying needs to stop.
I just took a peak over there and there's ANOTHER DAMNED DIARY saying the same damned things.
And of course it has turned into the usual shitstorm.
I wrote in one last night that Bernie is trying to help people get decent health care, affordable college and the rest of what he's been talking about.
Boy did I get dog piled on. Her supporters jumped all over my comment.
Especially when I pointed out that the site used to be against everything Obama and Hillary are doing when it comes to continuing PNAC's goals in the Middle East. " so Hillary is responsible for Isis and DAESH?"
And I pointed out how hard we tried to get single payer and Hillary is telling us that it will never, ever happen. And that's okay with them?
Now IOKIYAAD destroying the Middle East.
Sheesh!
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Bernie exposed the democrats' corruption and without
him, many of us would not have seen the depths of that corruption.
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
Disappointing and baffling, to my mind
I'm a Democrat. But I'm far from only a Democrat. So if the party does the wrong thing, I'm going to fight that, not go along with it. I'm not part of the Dem power structure, as most of the rank and file are not. What's with the burning desire to stay in the good graces of the inner circle that we've never been a part of anyway? If they want my vote and my donations, then they can adopt my issues.
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welcome
Great to see your comments D Doc. I haven't been to TOP for sometime now...I finally figured out how to extract myself from the website by unsubscribing from the Emails. It was most definitely toxic, and all I got from it was pissed off.
How did you accomplish that?
I've unsubscribed at least five times and I still keep receiving them. They're going in my junk folder.
TOP is really nasty now. People who I thought were good, compassionate people are throwing out insults like the worst high school bully. Even the most sainted ones have joined the mob, or are leading it.
I'm not long for that place. I've only stayed this long to support our remaining fellows, and frankly to be a thorn in the side of the others who are so deluded.
Fern
Centrists? If only.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Yes...
I think those folks over there at top were or would have fit right in with the "Democrats for Nixon".
aka Republicans.
There is a sense of calmness
that comes with the decision to leave. I haven't changed my registration yet, but I've left. Believe me, I've left.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
My position exactly
I haven't done the paperwork yet, obviously because our primary was only a few weeks ago. But I left in 2012, really. It still feels kind of strange, but yes, freeing too. And finally there is some cohesion among independents. If we had fair elections, I still think a good Indy candidate could win but it would have to be an overwhelming win. But that is an argument for another day. I really do wish Bernie would take on the issue of election fraud. He still might, when the time is right. Personally I think right now the time is right.
As for TOP, I've only seen the headline so far but I could probably write something very close to what's been published, without ever reading it.
I don't know why Dem hyperpartisan leaders still use abuse to keep people in line and it's even more baffling why he thinks it would work with Bernie supporters this year. Tonight I was thinking that the D party depends on a fresh batch of suckers coming thru every cycle and there are a bunch of people over at TOP who are in the same psychological state we were at some number of years ago. As long as there are new suckers coming in all the time, the abuse will work for some batches in various states of doubt and anger. The ones who matured and left are a lost cause but there are newer ones to work on.
All that being said, I do think the Dem elites are working with the only tools they have and are a bit panicked that it's not working as well as usual, but still mostly deluding themselves and playing the same game as always.
It's a shame that I wasted time and energy getting upset about the tirades and purges, and tried to fight back, as if it made a difference. Maybe it was worth it in changing a few minds or exposing some people to some info or arguments they hadn't heard before. I don't know. Now I peek in every now and then when there is another master rant & flogging and shake my head. I don't feel the slightest urge to respond.
One more thing
I just want to be clear that as finished as I am with the Ds, I haven't given up and am still a would be partisan as well, but only for someone who is worth it and who I believe is genuine. I don't think that person will be able to come on the D train though. What happened to Bernie sort of proved that. They will move mountains to make sure it doesn't happen. And even if the D leadership doesn't put up the roadblocks, I think their owners would.
Nice to see you again, Joanne
And yeah, we still pretty much agree on the big things, don't we?
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Glad to see both of you here,
Glad to see both of you here, joanneleon and Dallas Doc.
As you stated, Doc, i do not comment much these days- i am in the very center of production for the Sunapee Fair and can barely put together a grocery shopping list.
It is such a relief to be aligned with a fierce and articulate group who get it.
Thanks to nightprowlkitty for intro to Tim Black- will search him out.
This place is a sanctuary.
I have the opposite reaction
I was heartened by what Snaders did achieve running in the Democratic Party. It pains me to see all these supporters turning away, taking the message that it's pointless, rather than taking it a sign that there's a lot that can be accomplished running in the Dem Party. I've been engaged in politics for 35 years or so, and this was the most hopeful I've been about what can be achieved.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
I don't think most of us have turned away from politics
I warned a long time ago, when Bernie first declared, that Democratic insiders always fought progressive or left insurgents in the party much more fiercely than they fought Republicans. Losing to Republicans doesn't threaten their power or positions, for very telltale reasons if you think about it. But if the Bernie crew won, most of them would be out on their asses. The insiders maintain a death grip on the machinery, and this primary season has pulled back the curtain on how maliciously they use it.
An inside game in the Democratic party has some value, especially for building a bench, since the oligarchs don't care much about state legislative races. But for bigger ticket races they'll always sink a progressive primary challenger. When is the last time one won? Most of us are convinced that the way to change politics lies more in building a new infrastructure outside the Democratic party. If we do it right, that infrastructure can either take over the Democratic party after a big loss, or even replace it.
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Exactly. And Amen. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Off-topic (riiiiight) sorry to have missed the meetup Wed.
My not-so-busy calendar had a concurrent 4th (out of 5) puppy obedience training class. I had to go with home priorities. Would love to hear about it.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
As the kids would say ...
... spot on! I'd quote part of your comment, but it's all so perfect I can't break it up like that.
For what it's worth, I greatly benefited from your writing, Joanne. I recall when I first left the site (only came back because of Bernie and didn't stay long, heh), I was so worried that those people who were "wrong on the internet!" would win because I wasn't there to set them straight. I lurked for a bit and realized very quickly that there were bloggers who were more than capable of responding to the nonsense, and you were certainly one of them.
I agree that newbies will continually come - but there will also always be folks like us who come and quickly see the con for what it is. Those people will end up leaving probably faster than we did as the site becomes more and more rigid.
So good to hear your wonderfully lucid voice again!
Beat in the USA.
I think when TOP was more diverse, before the Hillbots were
allowed to run roughshod over Bernie supporters, when the Rec List was at least 50% pro Bernie, it made sense to argue with them and fight back. We hopefully had an effect on hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of lurkers.
Now? It's gone so thoroughly for Hillary that it's a joke. It will be clear to any lurker that the place is blindly mad for Hillary, thus they will discount their opinions even without us bothering to push back any more. I have taken to telling them lately that Hillary would hate their Bernie smears, because she is reaching out in her own way and so clearly wants our votes, while they do not. But I'm not worried about missing and failing to comment in a bunch of Bernie-smear diaries. I doubt any lurker would think they're objective purveyors of truth after spending about 5 minutes looking around. So fighting back is just a time waster these days.
Why do they get to win over there? I think because most of them are paid, while most of us are unpaid. It's easy to be a tireless advocate when you earn a paycheck from it.
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As far as the future of the site goes . . .
assuming that at least some are paid, what happens to DKos after the election cycle is over? If it's no longer a site where party outsiders and enthusiasts can get together, but largely paid staffers "correcting" the record, it doesn't seem like a very sustainable model.
It's pure speculation, but I was really struck by the difference between 2008 and 2016. The thought at least crossed my mind that they site upgrade might have been paid for on the basis of a pledge of support. In 2008 Clinton probably lost in part because small donors and many bloggers lined up behind Obama. It almost seems like there was a recognition of the problem on the part of Clinton's team and Clinton's media team made an attempt to cultivate and co-opt people who were seen as effective adversaries in 2008. It would also be a classic Clinton campaign move if they completely misread the whole appeal of blogs.
Traffic has already dropped precipitously. Once there's no need
for paid trolls, I think they're going to drop off a cliff.
The only way it's a decent business model is if kos was paid a ton by Clinton or one of her supporters. Kos got his big payday, maybe he doesn't care so much what happens to the site? Maybe after the election he'll be able to afford to run big ads to attract new viewers and can more or less start over?
I don't see old viewers going back. We have sites like this for our politics now.
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As it happens....
I did check in on TOP yesterday -- I do most days, I guess, and it's very disheartening to see the fever that's gripped at elast teh Rec List, with people rushing to help slay Sanders' zombie campaign (or, at least, that's how they'd see it)...and even condeming the progressive agenda he fought for.
Here's the thing, though -- the Kos piece the writer here references wasn't at all how it's being portrayd. Actually, Kos was mocking those who can't stop bashing Sanders. Yes, it was a plea for unity, but mostly it was directed at the Hillbots, telling them to cool it because 1) the primary over and 2) it's time to welcome Sanders' supporters back into the big tent.
I won't go into his motivations, because they're irrelevant. He was trying to bury the hatchest that the Hillbots he set loose are swinging so enthusiastically. I doubt he has much influence, but the messsage was much more positive than is being portrayed here. It's actually the opposite of the Ides of March edict that was aimed at shutting down the pro-Sanders folks. It's not an apology, mind you -- and it won't mend broken fences, but my sense of fiarness pushes me to acknowledge that it's an attempt to do that.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
I'll respond to both of your comments in this one.
I dealt with the contents of Markos' diary above - as I said in my essay, I only looked at the title.
I don't find his "message" to be positive at all, as I said in my prior comment. I certainly agree he is trying to mend fences, but his view of what Sanders supporters are working for is simply off-base. He truly doesn't understand what we are working towards, which I tried to explain in my essay here. Given that, nothing he says will motivate me to even read his posts, much less work towards any kind of unity with hard-line Dems.
As for your feelings of pain over people leaving the Dem Party, I also believe I have addressed that in this essay. As long as donors get the lion's share of attention by members of both parties, the middle class, working class, and working poor are never going to have a seat at the table in any meaningful way. Bernie's campaign simply showed that in such a stark manner that it shocked a lot of Dems, myself included, into understanding that simple fact. Bernie's lack of obligations to the donor class made it very clear what we could have if all of our representatives paid attention to their constituents over their corporate donors, instead of the other way around.
I haven't seen even the tiniest bit of evidence that either party is moving towards campaign finance reform in any meaningful way. I think this also is one of the causes of Republicans being able, over and over again, to block any Dem Party reforms and the constant cry of Dems that they are the good guys "if only there were MORE of us!"
There won't be MORE Dems under this corrupt system. More and more people are becoming independents and turning away from both parties. Bernie's campaign certainly proved conclusively to Progressives that the Democratic Party will not change unless, as he put it, "millions and millions" of citizens make this kind of corruption politically toxic to the point where people running for office no longer feel they must pay fealty to not only the wealthy donors, but the wealthy and powerful party leaders.
You may feel otherwise, but I'm not turning away from the Dem Party - they have simply stopped representing me in any meaningful way. I'm only acknowledging that.
Beat in the USA.
I've seen those sentiments over and over
That was always obvious. I never thought they represented my views, at least in terms of being willing to move on it. And yet, Bernie got over 40% of the vote. And, that was running against the most comprehensive political apparatus ever put together for a Presidential campaign. Progressives got a seat at the table. Not a winning majority -- but look at the votes on the platform committee. Some went for the Sanders' issues, whereas on the climate, they went 7-6 against. It's not that big a lift from there. Unfortunately, to my mind, a lot of the Busters are fracturing this coalition, just when it's on the cusp of being a majority. There won't be a Clinton machine to run against in the future. That means there won't be such a convenient target, of course -- but, if can assemble around the positive progressive message, around a candidate who might have broader appeal within the Democratic Party while still attracting independents, we've got a winning coalition. The Party has moved leftward, even if Clinton was able to hang on against Sanders. Looking at the makeup of Democrats in office, it's far more progressive than it was in 2000. I can see that in my own state, in Maryland, which has long been a Democratic stronghold, but had few progressive elected officials to show for it. That's changing with each election. Same is true in my old home state of New York. I've even seen that in my own family, where my cousin's cousin got a lot of notoriety and actually won a race for a party post in Brooklyn challenging the party machine there. He's leading a bit of a reformation there. Progress is by definition a process, and I realy believe progressives are gaining a lot of ground. If we had coalition governments, I'd be all for a third-party movement. But, our system doesn't allow for that. So, I believe it's a necessity to work within the major parties -- and we're close to getting the representation we want within one of them.
I don't expect to convince you or any Buster, but I do wish you'd keep an open mind, because we won't be able to elect the candidates we want in the party if too many leave the party. Jeremy Corbyn won in Labour, even without the support of the other MPs. We can do that here -- and, if we do, it will take more firmly because we don't have no confidence votes.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
I've read your sentiments many times before as well.
I don't think we'll agree on this, and that's fine with me.
The Clinton Machine is just one manifestation of the oligarchy we are living under. That won't change until there is a real movement, from the bottom up, to change it.
I believe that movement has been going on for some time, but Bernie's campaign crystalized it in a way that woke a lot of people up. He showed what would happen when you take big money out of the equation, and we simply haven't experienced this before in a Presidential campaign.
Bernie ran as a Democrat, but he is coming from an Independent stance which is not possible to hold in our present Democratic Party.
We have a large Progressive Caucus in Congress that hasn't accomplished anything meaningful, even within the Dem Party. That's not just because of the Clinton Machine but because of money in politics generally.
I don't look at this as "Bernie or Bust." I described the change in my views in my essay and it's ultimately not about Bernie but about what I've learned from experiencing his campaign. Even if Bernie won the nomination and became President, this struggle would still have to take place.
Beat in the USA.
Little Markos cut off the site's own nose to spite its face
few newbs will want to join dkos unless they are already pro hillary. anyone else will recoil at the blatant pandering .
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
Agreed. They'll only possibly be able to rebuild after the
election is over. If they go back to diverse discussion, he'll then be able to attract newbies.
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Diverse discussion? Perhaps.
But many of the best voluntary writers have decamped, many to here. Ones who could actually write about diverse subjects. Their loss, their fault, our gain.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
True, the front pagers would have to turn around at first.
And it is their own fault. I don't feel sorry for them.
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It's turned into hillaryis44 circa2016.
A political Ponzi scheme?
nailed it.
i think howard dean proved that pretty well. also, it's quite funny that Little Markos extolled the 'impact' that howard dean's organization had after he lost. huh? no it didn't. even obama's OFA has failed , according to obama's own advisers who are now working elsewhere, in the sense that OFA didn't carry enough momentum to survive without the grassroots.
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
As a witness, I'd beg to differ.
What you did with the 'What's Happenin'' series over there, not to mention the pushback in other threads, kept that place saner than it would have been for longer than would have happened otherwise. More importantly (especially for those here who don't know the history), it led directly, unmistakably, to the creation of this place, C99P. I witnessed that in real time.
There's no shame there. No waste of time and energy. Without what you did, Joanne, we wouldn't be here. We'd each be wandering alone in the wilderness. This is no slight of what others did, too, but your contribution will not be forgotten as long as I'm around.
dance
you are too kind. And I miss you. I hope we can pull together a meet up soon.
The two parties seem so similar because...
...they are, of course, just two different factions of the oligarchy.
Dd, hello. :-)
I was so glad to see a comment of yours right after I joined this site. You were/are one of my favorite political commentators at TOP, and now, here. As the young folks say: "Way cool"! Always be safe, and take care!
Rec'd!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
There is a reason they look so similar now, because
they are catering to the same general group with the socially conservative conservatives for the repubs and the socially liberal conservatives for the Dems, or the far right and the center right, with the real left completely unrepresented, Thats why both parties look and act authoritarian because that is who they cater to, with the current divide being more nationalist/NWO than right/left ideology.
How stupid and full of fear
do they think we are? Hope like with Brexit all the partisan tea leaf readers of polls of mess deception and binary bs. backfire. What they don't think people of all ages gender or race are capable of seeing through this farce? So I tell you Mabel they better get off the table cause people across the board are hep to their jive.
No more identifying with people who mean all humans and the planet harm. Fear is over and once that happens it frees people up to do whatever it takes to rid themselves of these global greedy power hungry psycho's. They represent nothing that is democratic and sadly do not even fight for their one claim to fame which is social issues. Good cop, bad cop matters little when you figure out their complicit rigged game.
Don't have the foggiest how this election will play out but I do know deep in my heart we will overcome someday. Corney as it sounds it's going to be. We are not afraid today and if we are I'm telling you Mabel we need to buck up and keep on going. Without fear it will happen. FDR had a good point about fear.He has been debunked form here to kingdom come by the Democrat's who are running against his real legacy. He might have been flawed but that does not invalidate the basic principles he put in place.
Drawing back the curtain is just the start. It's up to humans globally to overcome fear and move it forward. Right now the Dems are the only game in town but one thing I know from being an old coot is nothing, especially politics is static, and change is the only game that counts. Resistance to change brings disease to body mind and soul. It's up to us not them. I know what the evil Democratic party is about and what the evil Republicans are about it's not anything anyone should support it's the monkeys paw. These people will always sell you out and then tell you it's the lesser evil. It's not it's just evil and it is not inevitable.
Thanks Nightprowlkitty for posting here and keeping the non partisan truth and the faith in human capacity for overcoming these fuckers.
Worth repeating:
I feel the same way. I also agree this is a global struggle - that becomes evident more and more as that curtain gets pulled back.
Beat in the USA.
hillary is connected to the right wing coup players in brazil
this is definitely global.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/04/hillary-clinton-and-wall-streets-...
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
bfk, Hillary is connected to many coups
She, Bill and their foundation has been involved in Honduras since 2001, in Haiti since before the earthquake, but especially after it.
Anyone wanting in on reconstruction had to go through Bill first, then Hillary's state department and then donate to the foundation.
Rinse and repeat in Libya, Honduras and Ukraine.
The foundation profiting off what her duties were during her time as SOS were forbidden by congress and Obama. She was told to distance her duties as SOS from the foundation and we can see that she didn't.
There was a comment here last night about how the republicans were concerned about this, so why didn't they stop her?
Obama told her to keep Bluementhal away from the state department, so she hired him to work at her foundation. He passed along a lot of business opportunities for her foundation.
Anyone think that Obama wasn't aware of this?
Look at how many lucrative contract people got after donating millions to the foundation.
If that isn't pay for play and doesn't stink of corruption, I don't know what does.
The FBI isn't just looking into the emails, they are also looking into the foundation.
Possible Rico charges there.
Russia donated to the foundation and now has access to 20% of the US uranium (?) mines. How is that legal?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
yeah i posted the blumental article yesterday
and how the benghazi report released contained a nugget showing that clinton is still paying blumenthal for correct the record. fucking sick.
on top of it all, bill clinton is going to be the sluttiest First Lady we ever had lol
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
I don't know...
Rachael Jackson had quite the reputation, if she had lived.
That's a bit unfair
Her first husband was a skuzz, and let her think he had divorced her so he could "Gotcha!" her and get divorced with cause.
It worked. Shame on Jackson too, who as a lawyer should have known to check up on "hearsay".
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
He flew with a sex offender
On his private jet who either had underaged girls on the plane, or on his island.
Epstein went to prison and is a registered sex offender.
If Bill knew about it and didn't report it he should have been charged as a co conspirator.
Bill hasn't changed at all since his affairs during his term as governor.
And remember how Hillary went after the women who charged Bill.
I like this picture.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
the epstein thing is a big deal and i'm sure
the clintonistas are dismissing it as a 'conspiracy theory'.
btw this scares the shit out of me bc i never saw it in 2008: hillary says "if i get elected, I WILL ATTACK IRAN"
https://twitter.com/JeanetteJing/status/748367472206688257
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
Everything people say about her is a conspiracy theory
it doesn't matter how much evidence one provides them, they are like the 3 monkeys.
They close their eyes, ears and mouths about Hillary.
As I've written before, everything she did during her time as SOS, including destroying Libya, Syria, Honduras and Ukraine is right wing talking points even when the information comes from left wing websites.
People used to be in favor of single payer, higher taxes on the rich and every other progressive issue.
But that's when Bush, Cheney and the republicans were doing them. Since Obama was elected, Gaddafi and Assad were or are bad people because they gasses their citizens (even though there is proof it was the Syrian Rebels that did that, you know, the rebels that the US created).
I have reminded them of babies being thrown out of incubators and WMDs, but Obama is too kind of a family man to lie to us. (vominting now)
I heard her make this statement. She's saying if Iran developed nuclear weapons and attacks Israel she will obliterate them.
And I believe that she fought against the Iran deal.
Remember when the 3 young hikers were being held by Iran? One of them said that every time they heard her voice, they got more scared?
Good lord,mi don't want her or bills anywhere near the WH again.
Imagine how much more damage they can do to this country and the world!
Here's what one Twitter person wrote in response to the video.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
HRC Running Ads All Day Today in Tampa Bay Area
About how much she's done for children. I cannot mute the sound fast enough.
Last October, after the Benghazi Interrogation, I thought I might be able to vote for her. But her behavior during this campaign, combined with reading about her tenure as SoS and the OIG report, there is no way HRC will earn my vote. It will not, never, ever, be given to her. I don't view the Clintons as real, genuine Democrats; they are simply sophisticated grifters who have damaged the Democratic party and blurred its distinction from the GOP.
Up until recently, I thought that if HRC were indicted that she would withdraw her candidacy. Now I think she will steamroll herself over the electorate. Nothing will stop her. She and Bill owe too many favors. So there will be scandal and chaos throughout her presidency and she will continue to lie and obfuscate every single issue until we all go deaf.
Epstein airplane
Just want to make sure everyone knows what they called Epstein's private airplane: The Lolita Express.
Trump, or whoever the Republican's pick, and I really don't think it will be Trump, are saving the "good stuff" for the election. No need for op research - they've got "binders full" for real this time.
Expect they'll lead with: "What difference does it make."
Blumenthal and David Brock
thanks for yesterday's article.
"About $200,000." - was Blumenthal's answer to how much Brock & Co. paid him.
About....
How are the Clintons still getting away with this? All of it?
I used to say the Clintons had no "shame gene" - Billy HAD to know his waiting on the tarmac to talk about grandchildren with Loretta was gonna be made public. HE HAD TO.
Speaking of "coups" - when do we get ours?
Right on, Shaz
"It's up to humans globally to overcome fear and move it forward. "
I watched a two-part interview with Henry Giroux recently. on the topic of his book "America at War With Itself". One of the solutions he offered was to build a movement, and the movement must be international. Global.
This has already started happening. The Occupy movement spread like wildfire. At any given protest, even today, it's guaranteed that you'll see a V mask. BLM went global, to some extent, and they reached out to make it so when they showed solidarity with Palestinians. The BLS movement was, from the start, global, I think. And I run into a lot of people from other countries on Twitter who jumped into the Bernie movement. I don't think all of them were expats.
Here are the two vids. Keiser shows are formatted such that the interviews begin halfway through, somewhere around the 13min mark. The interview spans two different shows.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYHPUpKFHNk]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mIBoopBB_U]
Henry Giroux Books and Articles
http://www.henryagiroux.com
For those in poor countries with inadequate libraries where downloading a personal copy is legal... you'll know where to find them. (Hint: Library Genesis, Bookzz). For those in rich countries with a good library service, demand they be included in public library collections and support the author please.
In Dominica and Bolivia its almost impossible to get real paper books and with low wages as they are, we are mostly financially unable to afford e-books. Thus the international lending libraries (like LibGen and Bookzz) and laws allowing a personal non-distributable copy of anything not produced locally. Part of the scariness of things like TPP is that these agreements make it illegal for us in the broader world to educate ourselves.
LOL, yesterday one of my young neighbors brought his just out of high school girl friend by, and at first she didn't want to admit being an avid reader... turns out she has a tablet full of books. Admittedly romances, so I tried to talk her into a sci-fi romance.
Note: Thank you Russia
From the Light House.
Thx, if we just could march with Joan Baez' songs again ...
I so much miss the decency expressed in her songs.
https://www.euronews.com/live
This little essay is filled with excellence.
First time in a long time I felt easy online.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
That's a safe bet when you see this author's byline
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Little Markos is such a petulant little queen
he's just mad that bernie has integrity and doesn't have to scrounge for cash like markos does. I'm sure this sellout process goes all the way back to when he invited her to come to the Netroots soirees.
do they even do those anymore? is markos even able to grift on that level? what morons would shell out $$ to go to his little convention nowadays? you gotta be a true sucker.
i sold a futon on craigslist recently and a woman in her 50s came to buy it wearing a Bernie shirt. we ended up talking for an hour about politics and Little Markos came up. she laughed and told me how she had to mark dailykos emails as spam in 2016 due to the volume of spam shit she was getting. when i told her markos is selling user data to the DNC and other groups, she said it makes a lot of sense since she gets emails from groups she never even signed up with.
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
True that!
Petulant little queen! Perfect!!! I remember hearing him a while back on the Mark Thompson show, on, ahem Progressive Radio (though we love Thom H, despite the 10,000 commercials an hour for Super Beets) where he would appear on most Thursday evening's. Marcos was whiny, wimpy, panty-bunched-- I thought THIS is Markos? You can tell so much from a person's voice. His bile for Bernie, and his supporters, was as palpable as it was incredible. I thought how he and Michelangelo Signorile (another breathless gusher for HRC, whom he once called, rapturously, a 'Diva!' (ughhh) should have their own show, quite late at night. 'Hissy and Fitz,' or something....NEVER did MT, at least in my listening (I would drive up to NH in massive gridlock every Thursday evening) have a Bernie surrogate on.
Semper ubi sub ubi
millennials aren't fooled by clinton
Only 38 percent of respondents regard her securing the nomination as “a historic moment,” according to a Vox/Morning Consult poll released Tuesday.
Forty-two percent of women find the nomination historic, compared to 33 percent of men. Unsurprisingly, a split emerges by party affiliation. “It might be tempting to think that women are willing to cross party lines on this front, but the poll didn’t bear this out,” Vox writes. Only 19 percent of Republican women regard the nomination as historic, which is slightly less than the 20 percent of Republican men who do.
Hillary is trying to reach out to Republican women, but as Vox says throughout, the view of Hillary and her nomination has more so to do with party than gender.
The poll also reflects a generational divide. Twenty-nine percent of those 18-29 think the nomination is historic. The percentages for those 30-64 are fairly steady, hovering between 34 and 36 percent.
When it comes to those 65 and older, 52 percent find the nomination historic. After the 58 percent of Democratic women who do, older voters are the most likely to view the nomination in this way, along with the 52 percent of Democrats.
These results follow a tense primary between older and younger women.
Many young women were not amused by Hillary’s tactics during the primary, including her “Woman Card.” Now that Hillary is the presumptive nominee, conservative and progressive groups alike warn against her nomination.
At best, young voters may be bored or consider the nomination to be the norm. “The notion of the first female major-party presidential nominee is greeted with a collective millennial yawn,” writes Molly Roberts for The Washington Post.
Vox concluded that a Hillary win won’t be because of gender. This is refreshing for those who prefer living in a meritocracy and waiting for a more likable female candidate over bemoaning how many men there are in Congress.
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
As a 50-plus-year-old woman, I have to say it's not a
historical perspective thing either, except maybe some older women stopped paying attention long ago. There have been women leaders around the world. We don't have to prove we can lead a country, and no one other than a few Internet trolls thinks Hillary is less qualified because she's a woman. This country has moved away from thinking women can't do men's jobs (or men can't do women's jobs), too bad some older women haven't realized that evolution has taken place.
We do need more women in Congress. But only looking for whether or not they are women won't do it. Michele Bachman? Joni Ernst? Sarah Palin?? No thank you! We need progressives first, male or female. Unbought, supported by small donations. Then if all other things are equal, sure, I'll support the female candidate, to even things up. Same with minorities.
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yes we need several dozen more women in congress
even the republican women (save for palin) are much better than the douchebags GOpers. I'll take susan collins any day over john cornyn.
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
Granted, most Repub women are better than Repub men, but
they're not better than most Dem men. Issues first. Always. If they're better, then they can show that in what they stand for.
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