The Democratic Party wants to cram the same voters into a smaller tent
I never thought I'd end up being that guy. You know, the guy arguing on Facebook until he gets defriended. I didn't even think it was an argument. To me, it seemed like a strongly worded discussion among Liberals. Hillary's name didn't even come up once.We were two people on the same side of the liberal fence. We never even mentioned the candidates by name. So how did it come that karateexplosions is no longer my friend on Facebook?
It all started when he made a post about how all of the Democratic primaries should be closed. I can see the reasons for this. I can. It's the Democrats' party and they can do with it as they wish.
It's a complex argument there, choosing between a candidate who represents the party to a 'T', or a compromise candidate who incorporates a lot of what Independent / No Party Preference voters want to see. Do you go with the "big tent" of ideas and inclusiveness? Or do you go with the purist route, and let the others follow if they will?
Let's not forget what the real goal is here, to win the general election. In order to do that one must lure Indie/NPP voters. Plain. And. Simple. Everyone around here has been all up about "the math" as of late, well, "the math" says that you can't win the election without attracting the 39% of the electorate who identify as Indie/NPP.
And if you want the Indie/NPP vote in November, the party just might want to get their input in the primary. Here I'll stop you before you accuse me of writing a sour grapes diary. That's not where I'm going. This isn't about trying to get Bernie on the ticket. This isn't about whether Bernie or Hillary will bring in more Independent voters (remember, my friend and I never mentioned the candidates). This is about the process that creates the Democratic ticket and platform.
The upcoming election could be uniquely defined by the presence of Donald J Trump, who is so odious that no redeeming qualities can be found in his potential Presidency. But his candidacy is even more toxic than it appears, for it turns discussions such as this one into an irritation. To vote for anyone other than Hillary is to encourage the most unqualified, dangerous, and unpresidential major party candidate in our nation's history. It's a non-starter.
Because of this, there has developed a certain entitlement among Democratic pols that anyone who participated in the Democratic primary is now obligated to vote for Hillary in the general. As if one Democratic candidate is interchangeable with the other and we should all expect the exact same results regardless of which one won. Normally this would not be the case but Trump! The prospect of his presidency is so unacceptable that even suggesting there won't be an identical united front against him, regardless of the Democratic candidate, is to stoke the deep fires of anger in Hillary's supporters.
So there's been this argument that the Independent/NPP voters shouldn't get to vote in the Democratic primary, but if you look at it, it's really an extension of the Bernie's-really-an-Independent argument that says he shouldn't even be running for the slot. There are many who encourage the Democratic party to close ranks. To not allow the guy who used to be Independent, and not take the preferences of the Independent voters. I call this the purity route, and it's what karateexplosions was arguing for.
The Democratic party tells the Indie/NPP voters that their input is not welcome, and in the same breath the party lays on the guilt trip for not getting their full support in the general. The party says "it's my way or the highway," but if you choose the highway you deserve to get run over by a fully loaded semi trailer.
I'm not sure what is so magical about having a voter change their registration to Democrat. If they support and vote for the Democrat that should give them a seat at the table. But apparently that's not good enough to build a party. To build a party you don't attract diverse constituencies and crossover voters at the polls! No! To build a party you blackmail voters into changing their registrations so they can gain the franchise!
One thing I learned during this campaign is that despite my registration I'm not a Democrat. Every time someone remarks that Bernie isn't a real Democrat it reminds me that neither am I. When you take the sum total of all the things the Democratic party has supported lately, it only jibes with about 20% of my ideology. I guess that makes me a radical leftie or something.
The Democratic party talks a big game but when it comes to actually enacting a progressive agenda, it’s practically a zero tolerance policy. I’m tired of being frustrated by the party I support. It shouldn’t feel like a breath of fresh air whenever an Elizabeth Warren, Tulsi Gabbard, or Russ Feingold rises to the fore. The dejected futility felt when TPP was signed shouldn’t be the norm.
When someone tells me that I should just suck it up and vote for Hillary, I have to weigh my anti-Trump motivations against what it would take for me to vote for "safe and responsible fracking," nation building, and the continuation/expansion of a national healthcare system that prevents me from obtaining insurance on the private exchanges. But most of all I have to consider the fracking, which is the antithesis of my ideology. I don't think my readers can appreciate just how much of a moral and ethical breech it is for me to vote for "safe and ethical fracking." But Trump!!
When the Democratic party chose a 3rd way centrist they assumed that they would still get the full support of the entire political left just the same as if they ran with the progressive. There are consequences to that. There have to be. I think this is the big lie of the 2016 election, the public secret, the elephant in the room if you will. The Democrats did NOT choose the candidate who lures in younger, first time, independent, far left, and crossover voters, but the party expects all of these constituencies to still support the Democrat in the election.
To recap:
- Independents should not get to choose the Democratic candidate
- Independents should not get input nor allowances on the Democratic platform
- Independents are expected to turn out and vote for the Democrat
The temptation at this point is to make the argument personal. To make me the bad guy here for even considering sitting this one out. Look, I'm just the messenger here. You can call me a shit and make me feel guilty, maybe even guilty enough to vote for Hillary, but you can't change the minds of the millions of voters who are staying silent and aren't taking the time to blog about how they are being taken for granted and getting virtually nothing in return.
If the Democratic party wants to ignore the input of the voices of Independents, it's their prerogative. If the Democratic party wants to push the progressive candidate to the side, the candidate that has Independents interested in voting D, that's their right.
But if you think you can do these things and still rely on Independents as a voting bloc you've got another thing coming. They may not vote for Trump, but they don't have to assist you in your crusade, either. You made it this way when you chose the path of party purity.
And if Hillary loses in November you will be blaming the voters, and not the candidate.
Comments
I got this in an email forward...
Makes sense… People get outraged about one, but hypocritically do it to others 'because' it's ok for this but not for that.
Sod the Democratic Party
frankly!
A school of Hagfish get more done on a regular basis.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Democrats in Congress would bow to Clinton, stand up to Trump
I'm with you. As soon as Obama was elected, Congressional opposition to the Iraq war ended.
I foresee similar fecklessness in the face of bad policy choices by a president Clinton.
If Trump were elected, Democrats would know they could look like heroes by blocking his outrages.
So which would you rather have? A Congress that caves to Clinton or one that stands up to Trump? To me, it looks like even though what Trump says is worse, Clinton would accomplish more, and much of it would be harmful.
Hillary: Making sure women get a bigger piece of the middle-class pie that her neoliberal, DLC, pro-Wall Street, pro-Pentagon, pro-TPP, Republican-lite economic policies are designed to shrink.
Hey, good to see you here
I don't think that the democrats were actually against the Iraq war. Not after we put them in power in 06 because they promised if elected then they would roll back the bush abuses.
And what was the first thing out of Pelosi's mouth?
But what I was surprised about was the so called progressives stopped protesting against the wars in the Middle East after Obama was elected.
And every one of Hillary's supporters do know damned well that she is a warmonger. How they can deny that boggles my mind.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Nice to see you, too
I'm not going to GBCW over at DK, but it's really not my kind of place these days. Here we get to say what we think.
Hillary: Making sure women get a bigger piece of the middle-class pie that her neoliberal, DLC, pro-Wall Street, pro-Pentagon, pro-TPP, Republican-lite economic policies are designed to shrink.
We've seen ample evidence of fecklessness
with so-called progressives' acceptance of Obama's drone warfare, non-prosecution of banksters and many other issues.
Not that I really believe most of the Democrats in Congress would stand up to Trump. On the contrary, we've seen how they consented to Bush's desire to attack a country that hadn't threatened or attacked us. Although it's trite and it wasn't (I believe) the planned outcome of his efforts, Kos was right to say we need "more and better" Democrats. The difference being that one of the best, Bernie, wasn't a Democrat at all until a year ago.
It's a classic case of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. There is no good alternative in what's being offered. A lesser evil is still just that: evil. I cannot, will not, support evil.
the Dems in congree never did
fight the odious Act's that legalized these this insane war on terra. They voted for the AUFM and the odious Patriot Act and were gung ho about killing 'the terrist's who are gonna kill yer family'. They reupped it once they had the majority. They still are unrepentant supporters of this insanity. The Dems. all insist we must support Israel and stop ISIS and that the extremists must be stopped.
The Democratic party sucked as the loyal opposition to the Bushies and they will suck at opposing whichever freaking fascist we have to chose from. They like it this way. It's the of the game they play. It's irrelevant which of these two fascist candidates is decreed the winner we will all lose. The Democrat's including the so called progressives will do nothing to stop this march towards world fascism with the US as the enforcer. They are complicit.
How would a Patriot Act?
An old joke I saw at an art exhibit in Santa Ana.
At this point in time, the answer is probably with armed resistance. I have no way of knowing if armed resistance would be any more effective that civil disobediance. It is highly unlikely that any armed resistance would be any more successful than Waco or Ruby Ridge.
The future is bleak, but the next decade will definitely be interesting.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
We'll Go With Armed Resistance
We just have to wait until I can have Hellfire missiles like the government does.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
They tried to de-fund the war
They even passed de-funding once. Bush vetoed.
Hillary: Making sure women get a bigger piece of the middle-class pie that her neoliberal, DLC, pro-Wall Street, pro-Pentagon, pro-TPP, Republican-lite economic policies are designed to shrink.
It's comments like this that make me consider strategic voting
more and more lately, just like all the Hillbot's have been telling me all along.
But not in the way they would be happy with.
I currently intend to cast my Florida vote for Stein since she is on the ballot down here but if it is looking like it's gonna be close I am actually torn.
Do I vote for the orange windbag racist to prevent the psycho senile killer from becoming president?
What a fucked up decision. I am pissed at both parties now more than ever for putting me into a situation where I actually have to consider these types of things.
I mean really? WTF has the world come to? (Sigh)
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
My state is bought and paid for by the Clintons (NY)
But I share your thoughts on strategic voting.
It is so sad that if you criticize $hillary people will call you a racist Trump supporter. So in conversations I clarify it with this:
Just because I despise that corporate-owned, war-mongering, most corrupt politician ever Hillary does NOT mean I support that racist, egotistical,megalomaniac blowhard Trump
When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!
I don't know the right answer
I don't know the right answer for voting in the Fall. For me the only thing that I think should give people pause before voting third party is the SCOTUS seats.
The Problem with the SCOTUS argument for me at least is
I don't think Clinton will ever appoint a judge that would overturn Citizens United, Trump indicates that he would be I am not so certain on that so that one is a tie.
I also think that if Obama doesn't pass TPP she would. I don't think Trump would and I think his appointee would be more likely to be one that is also against rapacious trade deals... so that is a point for him.
Both are unlikely to to appoint one that is going to vote against the Death penalty. Another Tie.
I think Clinton is MUCH more likely to get us involved in more armed conflict and regime change than Trump is, at least based on her record, granted he doesn't really have much of one, but like most bullies I think he is mostly a chicken shit and I also think he cares too much about what others think about him and would avoid getting involved in yet another unpopular war. so that is a point for Trump.
Sure, there are absolutely points that Clinton has on him, and FSM knows there are a Metric Shit-ton of negatives on him as well, but these are a few of the most important issues to me and while they both suck at most of them, Trump actually is on the right side on more of them in my opinion.
Like I said, Odd's are I will still end up voting for Stein, but I am now doing something I never, ever thought I would consider. Strategically voting for Trump.
I am not trying to be inflammatory with it or anything but I did want to voice it simply because it is so odd to me and I was curious if anyone else experienced these thoughts/feelings as well. (Hmm. I guess I got another Essay to start drafting when I get home from the hardware store. )
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I don't know the right answer
I don't know the right answer for voting in the Fall. For me the only thing that I think should give people pause before voting third party is the SCOTUS seats.
Dude, the Dems know all this.
It's just that, for financial reasons, they'd rather lose with Clinton than win with anybody else. Given that fact, their only tactic is to try and scare everybody into voting Dem.
Well, that tactic sucks and they need to come up with
something other than "we are slightly less awful than Republicans".
Honestly, I'm at the point where I hate the Democratic Party for pulling these stupid, guilt-tripping tactics for so fucking long. That is not how you build unity or longevity within your political party, ffs!
Ugh.
I miss Colorado.
Yes!
I have said that all along. The Democrats would rather cede the White House to a Republican than allow Bernie Sanders to become President.
“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
Most of the arguments I've
Most of the arguments I've seen against open primaries boil down to concern trolling: claims that with open primaries there will be conservative voters (and "infiltrating" conservative candidates) spoiling the elections. Except that's not what we saw happen with Sanders v Clinton: the candidate who is more electable and more progressive received most of those non-Dem votes. The threat is non existent.
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