Pres. Obama's Stunning Discourse on "Radical Islam"
Our President once again made brilliant use of his bully pulpit to call out the absurdist right-wing talking point about so-called "Radical Islam." He has made the point before, but never so extensively and convincingly. He lambasted those who think there would be some powerful magic in using the phrase "Radical Islam." To the contrary, he argued that would just play into the hands of the extremist groups who want to frame the fight as one between Western civilization and Islamic civilization. And, he noted that it would put all Muslim Americans under the microscope -- a "betrayal" of these Americans.
I don't know how y'all feel about the President. He's not perfect -- but sometimes, on some issues, he really hits it out of the park. Unfortunately, he's had to deal with a Republican Congress for 3/4 of his Presidency, but he remains a compelling, forceful moral compass. I wish he'd been more forceful in those first 2 years, because he erred in trying to let Congress take the lead, and erred in trying to find less-controversial middle paths. But, that would have gone against his instincts to be inclusive. Those instincts may have worked against him in dealing with a GOP that had no interest in working with him, but they are spot on in dealing with most human beings. He's made made a caricature by those on both the right and left, but I believe he's one of the finest men ever to hold that office. Maybe he has a fanciful vision of this country, but it's one we should aspire to.
Comments
I heard it coming back from lunch and thought it was great.
I'm wondering what Trump will come back with? Some insanity he read on the internet I suppose.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
While not perfect by
any stretch of the imagination, and I've had more then my quibbles with his policies... When it comes to social issues like this, he has always had the right words for it. It's one of the reasons that saves me from hating him, because while I get that he's always tried to be inclusive, he has sold us out on many things. But not on the social stuff. And for that, we have made good strides as a country, and a lot of that is owed to him. I think if anything, that would be his best legacy.
Good for him
So when is he going to call out the anointed one.
Has she ever been brave enough to say
Radical Christianity??
Because the Huckabee type crap we tolerate is no better.
Orwell was an optimist
I have to take each thing the Prez does separately
He lost my trust long ago. I do not look at him as a guy who tried his best but was obstructed. So if he says or does anything I like it's not in the context of how fine he's always been.
Anyhow....the best part was the Trump reference, calling him a "politician who tweets".
Sadly, as I'm reading about this at the CNN site there's a breaking news story: "Police respond to report of armed person in Walmart in Amarillo, Texas, who may have hostages."
Really?
Are we talking about the same guy who said that he is “really good at killing people”?
The same guy who boasted that he's bombing seven countries?
If he's America's moral compass then we are truly lost.
It's a debatable point
Personally, I think the opposite of what you think here. I think that there is often a moral responsibility to act internationally and, in this case. it's more an example or "you broke it, so you bought it." Although, frankly, that's simplistic, too. It's not as if these groups weren't making trouble for years before we responded. We became the bull in the china shop in the Bush Adminstration, but many are looking for us to provide greater leadership -- to be more active -- than we have done in the Obama Administration. The world is divided into arbitrary national borders -- in some instances that system works to maintain the peace, but when it breaks down, sitting it out isn't necessarily the moral thing to do. You might point to individual strikes that are objectionable, but we're trying to head off a descent into barbarism. Yes, when you're doing that, you will be guilty of things that also seem barbaric. It's difficult to know for certain that you're doing the right thing. I think that, by and large, we are.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Sure you can debate it
but in my mind there is no debate.
He chose to start and expand wars.
He chose to continue and expand a global assassination program.
He chose to look the other way over torture.
He chose to look the other way (and help) over some terrorism.
He chose to look the other way over violent repression by dictators.
Call it whatever you want, but my mind is made up.
Agreed.
The US has been screwing over the world in so many places for so long that it was inevitable there'd be blowback. Sadly, I think it will get worse and worse over time, as Obama's continuation and expansion of the "war on terror" is creating 3 terrorists for every 1 we drone into martyrdom.
I agree with this
and being a bit fluffy on some social issues that he isn't really bothered about one way or the other does not balance his ledger.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Sloganeering...
We can't fight every battle. Yes, Obama has chosen not to fight in Crimea or Eastern Ukraine. Do you think we should have risked global immolation by taking on Russian forces? He chose not to fight support Syrian rebels. Personally, I thought that would be problematic, and it has proven to be thus. That said, was there a good alternative? Do you with your criticism that "he chose to start...wars" (and I have no idea which war he 'started' -- are you referring to intervening to head off a massacre of rebels in what was already a civil war in Libya? Or, a handful of strikes in the midst of a Yemeni conflict that has been going on at some level for decades? Ditto for Somalia? Seriously, what war did he start?) , also criticize him for not going after other dictators? He's made calculations about where US interests are implicated -- sure.
Do you really want him to go after every repressive government, or intervene in every war, regardless of US interests? Or, do you think he should sit inside our borders and pretend none of it is happening, even if it will spin out of control and threaten out national interests? I think both positions are irresponsible and unrealistic. I'm an idealist. I do think believe in humanitarian interventions. But, I'm enough of a realist to realize that there are physical limits on what even we can do with our military. Each decision to intervene or not intervene is a choice. Given the quagmire effect, it's important to make that choice wisely, because the deeper our involvement in one place, the fewer resources we have to bring to bear and influence events elsewhere.
It's important to learn the lessons of history -- I was four-square for the Somalia famine rescue, but we lacked the resolve to stick it out when it got hard, because Americans didn't see a national interest that justified losing soldiers. That's a political handicap -- because we did lose a few soldiers, but we pulled out and hundreds of thousands of Somalians have died in war that hasn't stopped since. Unfortunately, perhaps because of that experience, we completely sat out the Rwandan genocide a year later. Was that a moral choice? Sometimes we over-learn the lessons of history. Not everything is the next Vietnam or the next Iraq. Sometimes, getting involved in "other people's fights" is the right thing to do. You wouldn't want someone to stand by while someone is being raped or attacked around the corner. Why is the choice different if there's an ocean between us?
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Re:
I'm not sure what you mean here, because we support almost every rebel group in Syria, even ones aligned with al-Qaeda.
You mean the phony massacre that wasn't happening, and instead created a bloody, failed state?
You mean the 99% of Yemen strikes that happened under Obama, and the bloody failed state we helped create? Or the Saudi war crimes in Yemen we are enabling now?
And helping to continue brutalizing the most brutalized people on Earth.
Seriously?
I dare you to define what are our "national interests".
But can you acknowledge how often it fails? And thus makes things worse?
Actually it had stopped in 2006 when the warlords we supported were driven out by a popular islamic uprising. So naturally we supported an invasion by Ethiopia that destroyed Somalia much, much worse.
What you are talking about is being the Global Cop.
Not the Global Cop
A global cop. In a world that needs them.
Sorry for the typos. On Syria, our support wasn't there when it could've made a difference -- when there was a democratic opposition that wanted our help. Perhaps a million have died since, and much of the country has fled as refugees.
On Libya, I have no idea what you mean. The reporting on the seige of Misrata was not invented. There was great concern about the fate of rebels in the encircled city. Are you old enough to remember what happened in Grozny, in Chechnya? If the international community could have intervened without risking WW3, that should have happened. How about what happened in Hama under the regime of Hafez Assad, which was hidden from the world, becuase there were no Western reporters there? Sometimes, it' s not clear who the monsters are. Sometimes, it's very clear.
On Somalia, there was no significant period of peace. The Government in Mogadishu was in a long-running conflict with Islamic groups that eventually became the Islamic Courts Union. Ethiopia intervened to prevent the utter defeat of the Mogadishu government. Based on what I read at the time, life under the ICU was nothing we'd want to support. They brought the kind of peace that the Taliban had brought to Afghanistan -- the kind of peace that any human rights orgnization would have found deplorable.
Yemen -- yes, a failed state. But our diplomacy had helped to end a long-running civil war. It's awful that this broke down.
What you seem to be arguing is that bad shit will still happen, so we shouldn't try to stop it. Any of it. I don't agree.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
The Global Cop
Actually the city we went to war to save was Benghazi. And that was manufactured concern.
But rarely are we told the truth about the monsters. It often turns out that we were either helping the monsters, or are the monsters.
It isn't for you to decide! It isn't for America to decide. It isn't for The Global Cop to decide.
Somalians should decide for Somalia. Afghanis should decide for Afghanistan. Those countries are a disaster in large part because we decided that their choices weren't acceptable by our standards.
What's worse? A repressive Islamic state? Or a failed state full of rape and murder?
Let me put it another way
If our military is going to be the Global Cop, and ignore all notions of sovereignty, then it is only fair and democratic that all the other nations of the world have an equal vote on how our military is used.
Because otherwise, you aren't really promoting justice and democracy at all.
Oh, but he gives such lovely speeches.
And that seems to be enough for some people.
There is hardly a spec of difference between him & HRC, but he's a much better con-man. I have to admit, he suckered me twice.
chuck utzman
TULSI 2020
Just to try to understand your perspective,
do you believe the Iraq war started by Bush and the neocons/Zionists and continued by Obama was/is illegal and constituted massive crimes against humanity/war crimes?
He has lied to us every step of the way in his political career.
Barack Obama was a Third Way ringer.
He got where he is today because of backing from the family of the original criminal banker cabal, the Pritzker family, who is now his Commerce Queen.
***
Superior was the first of the deregulated go-go banks to go bust - at the time, the costliest failure ever. US taxpayers lost nearly half a billion dollars. Superior's depositors lost millions and poor folk in Sen. Obama's South Side district lost their homes.
Penny did not like paying $460 million. No, not one bit. What she needed was someone to give her Hope and Change. She hoped someone would change the banking regulators and the Commerce Department so she could get away with this crap.
Pritzker introduced Obama, the neophyte state senator, to the Ladies Who Lunch (that's really what they call themselves) on Chicago's Gold Coast. Obama got lunch, gold and better - an introduction to Robert Rubin. Rubin is a former Secretary of the Treasury, former chairman of Goldman Sachs and former co-chairman of Citibank. Even atheists recognized Rubin as the Supreme Deity of Wall Street.
Rubin opened the doors to finance industry vaults for Obama. Extraordinarily for a Democrat, Obama in 2008 raised three times as much from bankers as his Republican opponent.
http://www.gregpalast.com/billionaire-bankster-breaks-into-obamas-cabinet/
***
He brought back the despicable crowd who are as guilty for what happened with Wall Street as Dimon and Blankfein.
***
Larry Summers and the Secret “End-Game” Memo
The Memo confirmed every conspiracy freak's fantasy: that in the late 1990s, the top US Treasury officials secretly conspired with a small cabal of banker big-shots to rip apart financial regulation across the planet. When you see 26.3% unemployment in Spain, desperation and hunger in Greece, riots in Indonesia and Detroit in bankruptcy, go back to this End Game memo, the genesis of the blood and tears.
The Treasury official playing the bankers' secret End Game was Larry Summers. Today, Summers is Barack Obama's leading choice for Chairman of the US Federal Reserve, the world's central bank. If the confidential memo is authentic, then Summers shouldn't be serving on the Fed, he should be serving hard time in some dungeon reserved for the criminally insane of the finance world.
The memo is authentic.
To get that confirmation, I would have to fly to Geneva and wangle a meeting with the Secretary General of the World Trade Organization, Pascal Lamy. I did. Lamy, the Generalissimo of Globalization, told me,
http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo/
NOTE: THE MEMO WAS TO TIMOTHY GEITHNER
***
Has the guy found his comfortable shoes yet? He sure as Hell doesn't mind seeing union workers, or American workers in general, kicked to the curb by his corporate constituency. Outsourcing jobs and H1b visa usage is as strong as its ever be
How about the time he looked us in the eyes from his remote camera location and told us that "NO THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT COLLECTING YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION? That was particularly foul for a guy who campaigned on 'Transparency' don't you think?
His policy of 'looking forward' has allowed Wall Street to keep doing what they were doing to bring on the crash of half the economies on the planet. In fact, while he let the plebs of the world go bust, he protected the economic Wall Street terrorists from prosecution. The only punishment they got/get is they pay a few pennies of profit from every crime the committed in 'fines'. Obama made his bones supporting these economic terrorists. (Please see above.)
I suppose I could post links to his drone programs, his continuation of the PNAC's disastrous military wet dreams in the Middle East, and the complicity of his administration (often because of Clinton) in supporting coups by the military in [laces like Honduras, the Libyan/Syrian disasters, and the Ukraine where the Obama administration is doing everything it can to get us into a new Cold War but I hardly think that should be necessary. Anyone paying attention since he took office is well-versed in his love for 'regime change'.
And he endorsed Hillary Clinton, as foul a bit of opportunistic baggage as you will ever find in the halls of government anywhere. He needs her to make sure we NEVER get single payer, make sure that we continue our Middle Eastern military actions, and to pass his trade deals.
The man is a fraud and a liar.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
How do I keep duping things??
I wonder if I'm double pushing the button. I have two herniated disks in my neck and I've had 10 strokes (8 minis though) and my hands are becoming a pain in the ass. I wonder what I'm doing because this is getting embartassing.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth.
"There are radical muslims just like there are radical christians. As he works to seperate radical from Islam, he brings up ISIL and stepping up US attacks on them.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
There's no contradiction
I don't know that if we saw some "radical Christian" movement that was waging war on local populations to assert their power and lethal doctrine, whether we would act -- but the evidence is that we would. From WWII to the Balkan wars, we have defended decidedly non-Christian nations from attack by Christian ones. It's not a contradiction to say that ISIL is a threat to modern ciivilization and shoud be extinguished, while at the same time saying it's not a war on Islam. It's a war on a death cult that professes to follow the dictates of the same holy book as most Muslims. Kinda like David Koresh, who professed to be a Christian -- but on a far larger scale, with hundreds of thousands of fellow travelers.
Nuance. It's tough to put in a glib sentence or two. Doesn't make it illegititmate or invalid. In fact, the opposite. It's a fight against the doctrinaire -- in this case, extremely well-armed and dedicated to killing civilians who don't agree. I'm fine with being there.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Here's your chance to walk your talk
"I don't know that if we saw some "radical Christian" movement that was waging war on local populations to assert their power and lethal doctrine, whether we would act -- but the evidence is that we would."
Oh?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/06/14/pastor-r...
There are just two examples of "men of god"-awful seeking to wage war on a local American population. Waiting for the action.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
That Which Must Not Be Named
The nontroversy over whether to use the terms "radical islam" and "radical islamist" reminds me of Professor Dumbledore's wise words in a Harry Potter novel: “Call him Voldemort, Harry. Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.”
Who is fearing the name?
One -- the question is just what is the proper name. Just because they call themselves Islamists doesn't mean they have anything to do with what most Muslims would recognize as Islam. Maybe the proper name is something very different, even if we struggle to express it. If they were a smaller group and not within this (to us) alien culture, we'd call them a cult. We do that all the time. Here. With groups that link themselves to Christianity. They're cultists. But, if you're a militant who claims to be fighting for Islam or Judaism, then you're just a "radical" or "extremist."
Two -- Obama argues -- and I think correctly -- that we're doing their biddiing and furthering their agenda by accepting their frame of the struggle. We facilitate their recruitment, when we could be doing the opposite by marginalizing them from (for want of a better term) 'mainstream Islam.'
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Names
With Christians, the term cult is used for small groups of radicals numbering in the dozens or perhaps hundreds. Jim Jones led a cult. Heaven's Gate was a cult.
The largest group of Christian radicals is commonly lumped under the term Fundamentalist. There are 10s of millions of them. It should be noted that that is a fairly small number among the world's billion-plus Christians.
In Islam, there are 10s of millions of Islamic radicals that support the goals and methods of Al Qaida and Islamic State and similar groups. There is nothing wrong with lumping them under terms like Islamic Radicals or Islamic Fundamentalists. It should also be noted that that is a fairly small number among the world's billion-plus Muslims.
Refusing to name a problem does not make it go away. There is a large problem with Islamic Radicals. There is also a problem (in my view) with Christian Fundamentalists. Both groups want to restrict the freedom of others. The biggest difference is how much violence they use to achieve their goals.
Heard the speech live
I have to say that I was not impressed. I didn't hear much that I hadn't heard before with the way-too-many other mass shootings he's addressed.
Barry, as you still obviously don't understand, it isn't what you say. It's what you don't do. And THAT is going to be your sorry legacy once you're gone.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
(No subject)
I just wish Obama was as good
I just wish Obama was as good with policy as he was as an orator.
(No subject)
I seriously doubt he's paid
I'm thinking that he's just testing the waters to see what C99P is like.
you're out of line
Because somebody does not hew to whatever might be your own particular peculiar Reality, that does not make that person a "troll."
(No subject)
Dons moderator hat
I am speaking now as a moderator here at Caucus99%. As a member of the moderation team here, I kindly ask you and other members of this site to avoid publicly accusing anyone of being a troll. If you or anyone else here has a problem with a particular user, we ask you to please use the Contact Moderator form which is located as a drop down box under the Contact Us button in the upper right hand corner. This is the best way to address these issues and to avoid having this site devolve into blog wars. Thank you. Nancy aka gulfgal98
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
(No subject)
One thing that amazes me is that national polls show
Obama's job performance approval rating among Democrats at 80% for seven years straight. As someone that believes he's a war criminal, it's one of the things I point at to show how fucked up the Democratic party and most of its supporters are. These are true believers who have bought the propaganda hook, line and sinker and honestly feel Obama has done a good job. Many of them would give him a second and third Nobel Peace Prize if they could.
So trolls, true believers, its hard to tell when it comes to Obama.
a troll
is a fuckwit.
A person who voices approval for The Kenyan, that is just a person occupying a certain Reality.
But for the last line, 100% agreement.
The Democratic Party is just 29% of registered voters. That's not event 29% of the population. That 80% approve of him is an indictment of our media, our culture, and of those folks who know enough to know better but still approve.
Thank you, Nancy. (My Mod hat on, too.) EOM
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Very appreciative to see your Mod Message
Because When the troll stuff started I actually did what I Do on top and looked at the accused profile.. And the person in question is actually on a TO at GOS ... Which I kind of found funny.
Orwell was an optimist
No. He rolled over to maintain the status quo.
Trying to paint Obama as something great after the fail tenure of his term as president is just laughable now.
I fell for the hope and change BS in 08. I thought that maybe he would fight, but no, he got in there and then pretty much did as he was directed to do.
His second term has been mostly a farce, and now he's helping continue the status quo as well.
But I did get a laugh out of the whole Obama as a force of moral compass. And 'he erred' oh yes, he made a mistake when he did X…doubtful, he chose his course of action, he broke a lot of promises in the process.
He did not err… He decided to serve the status quo because rocking the boat too much was going to make the 1 percent extremely unhappy with him.
Obama Is A War Criminal
No different than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. His rhetorical fig leaf is betrayed by the massacre of millions of innocent men, women and children in the Middle East.
The biggest threat to global stability is the American military. No other nation or "terrorist" group comes close.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Obamaluv
This brilliant and astute statesman you admire so much is in reality a mass murderer and war criminal, who in a just world would be made to suffer the same fate as Saddam Hussein, as well as various and sundry Nazi officials in the aftermath of World War II. Yeah, he should know about radical Islam, having done so much to nurture and promote it.
I would love to see someone like you sit down and explain to this little boy why your hero chose to pursue policies that left him, and many other kids just like him, horribly maimed and crippled for life, and why the sacrifice of so many thousands of completely innocent Muslim civilians was somehow "worth it".
Oh, wait, I forgot - it's already been done:
Great stuff we're seeing on C99P lately. What next? Perhaps Queen Hillary herself will offer up "Ode to a Dear Friend and Great Humanitarian, Medal of Freedom and Nobel Peace Prize Winner Dr. Henry Kissinger."
Eat your heart out, Markos Moulitsas!
inactive account
I rage about this cognitive brain damage, as well.
It is this Cognitive Damage that shows up to vote in the US, and it is this Cognitive Damage that holds the future hostage.
I, too, rage against this incremental, nuanced view; the horrific compromise that comes from Democrats clinging to their denial, has crushed the hopes of the middle class and the dreams of future generations.
These are the very people who should be guarding against the moral hazard of their thinking. But the boundary between "nice guy at heart" and "monstrous inhuman depravity" has become blurry for them.
The truth is, they are the victims, here. They have been particularly harmed by the blasting firehose of US propaganda. The nice narratives they are programmed to spread, like this essay, provide comfort as they soothe away the horror of the atrocities that Americans commit in the outside world — where they have no business being in the first place.
Americans cannot save anyone, most of all, themselves, because they can see only a tiny sliver of reality. This is largely a geography problem. They are among the most intellectually isolated people in the world and they live in a thin atmosphere of misinformation. The folks that I wonder about, are those who seem immune to the endless manipulation of information and manipulative void where information should be present. I notice that these folks self-censor their lives and communication in elaborate and intricate ways.
I finally came to realize that everyone is suffering. Because our brains can still perceive reality in an unfiltered form, we all experience some level of psychic crisis depending on our level of denial. These glowing embers of mismatched reality burn the soul. We fight for narratives that bring comfort and we use narratives as weapons. It is increasingly important to be kind to one another, at this point. That may be the best that can be done.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
He's good with words, and being Head of State
Chief Executive on the other hand, needs a lot of work.
I'll give him a C-.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
You are far too lenient!
I give him an F- only because that is as low as the scale can go.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Obama has a talent for excellent oration when it suits him.
Unfortunately that seems to be where his brilliance ends, from my perspective. And, moreover, it is frequently the case that his actions run strongly counter to some of his best speeches. Those actions include scuttling the public option, following the GOP's lead on the economy, turning a blind eye to the war crimes of administrations past, and committing war crimes of his own.
So while I appreciate his ability to put some fine rhetoric together, the appeal is dimmed when I consider the man behind the mouth.