Are People Being Distracted From a Larger Issue?
Hillary has always been the presumptive nominee, that was the whole point of lining up all the superdelgates in advance of any primary in the first place - to clear the field and scare/warn off any upstart who might think they had some chance to run in an open election like we were a Democracy or something. It was/is Hillary's turn, most qualified person to ever run in the history of the world, a "historic" ceiling breaking nomination, yada, yada yada.
So okay, let's concede that Hillary is/was a done deal from the getgo. So what's the big deal and why the sudden need to suppress votes and tamp down the Bernie revolution? What's the big rush? Where I see all the energy focused in the media and the Democratic Party is not so much in declaring HRC the nominee, what I see is the concerted effort to get Bernie out before the convention. We're being told the Party has to unify and Hillary has to be able to focus on Trump without being distracted by Bernie. So Hillary, IGNORE BERNIE. There are no more debates and very few primaries left and you supposedly have it sewed up. So who cares if Bernie stays in until the convention?
I think there may be another underlying motivation beyond unity. This is just a theory, but I'll go ahead and throw it out. Perhaps the Party believes that the black swan event of a Hillary indictment could actually happen, because too much is out there in the public record for it not to happen and too many people have been following the server issue closely despite the efforts of the campaign and the media to mostly bury it and ignore it. Perhaps it's critically important for the Party to continue to choose, as opposed to elect, the alternate nominee if and when Hillary is forced to suspend her campaign. If Sanders concedes, he's just the loser of the primary and has no more standing than a parachuted in candidate like Biden or even Warren.
My advice to Bernie is to hang in until the convention and to NEVER concede or suspend his campaign before the convention. He can go inactive or remain low key if he chooses or he can still hold his massive rallies to point out the hunger that remains for a non-status quo candidate. Really that doesn't matter to me. But I think him remaining an official candidate has great value in simply annoying and derailing all the attempts of the Democratic Party to ignore a significant percentage of their own voters. Bernie's always been an iconoclast and I think he should remain one until the end.
The only people who would excoriate Bernie for staying in never cared for his issues or his voters anyway, so who cares if the people who have scorned and insulted you as racist, sexists, and misogynists previously continue to do so, only adding "bad loser" to their list of character flaws? Weren't we just called "toast" by a gloating Bill Clinton? Good luck Democrats in trying to make a club sandwich without the toast.
Comments
I think that's exactly it, Phoebe.
If hrc is out on an indictment, Joe Biden is waiting with bated breath in the wings for his own coronation. Of course that's what's happening. That's why they're floating Biden, too. Bernie is the thorn in their paw and they don't have the proper tweezers to take him out. We must not allow that to happen.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Thats it
Bernie will always be unacceptable to the PTB.
People forget this, but Bill Clinton was the original "neocon", not GWB, what with his intervention and bombing in the former Yugoslavia, sanctions on Iraq, expansion of NATO, etc. The people he surrounded himself with, Madeleine Albright and others, were part and parcel of the aggressive stance that the US adopts to this day.
Bernie would stop the war machine, they won't risk that possibility, because too many dividends are on the line.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Good policy.
You can try and put some gliblables on those policies, but if you lived those times, you should realize that any other choices would have been worse.
He put an end to murderous, genocidal conflicts in Bosnia and Kosovo. If you asked me what was the best thing that CLinton did in his Presidency, I'd probably point to that. He united the world in a peaceful response to check Iraq's real WMD program and also a measured response to an attempt to assasinate a former president. And, NATO expansion was both a response to a growing problem with Russian aggression, and also a smart effort to bring more countries into the NATO dynamic. I know there was criticism that it would backfire by alienating Russia, but Russia was already well on its way to being a problem. IMO the NATO enlargement is a pretext for Russian nationalism that Putin would have pushed anyway. So, the NATO expansion acts as a check on that. Imagine where the Ukraine crisis might have gone if Poland and the Baltic nations didn't feel NATO had their backs.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Agree, so what does this mean???
http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/06/fbi-offers-second-...
Something is clearly brewing. Clintons are moving as fast as they can to "settle" things.
BERNIE OR BUST!
Trump will DESTROY Joe with "Anita Hill" - and his plagarism in earlier run using EXACT words of Arthur Scarborough ( British Labour Party) - something's happening!
You definitely might be on to something.
The problem with this is Bernie is a stubborn as a fighter as we are and he isn't going to let us down. All the way Bernie!
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
Just ignore Hillary and the establishment
They're just doing frantic blathering anyway. #BernieOrJill
Beware the bullshit factories.
I think the thing to do is enmasse after the primary to
change our registration to independent. The Republicans are 23% and the Dem's are 32% of voters. If D's turn to I's in mass before the election, they will know they are in trouble. They won't be able to control the outcome. They will flip.
I was hoping someone might suggest this be done in tandem
on a certain day or something. You know, send a serious, coordinated message to the Democratic National Committee and to Mrs. Clinton.
They still don't seem to understand that all the Bernie voters--particularly the NOT-DEMOCRATS, who voted for him in very large numbers--are not going to line up behind Hillary. They. Are. Not. Her. Voters. Not now and not ever.
Exactly! If a significant number of us dump the Dems
at about the same time, it'll be hard for them to ignore. They need to get it through their cement brains that we are NOT voting for HRC -- no matter how hard they try to scare us.
The question is when would un-registering as a D have the most impact? Tomorrow? After the convention? The sooner the better, IMO. I'm only a D at the moment to vote for Bernie (done!), and it makes me feel kind of icky.
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare
I still have a closed primary
to vote in here in Florida. So I am going to wait until afterwards because I want to vote for Grayson over Murphy.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Me, too.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
On July 29th, according to The Humanist Report,
Is exactly what this is. I believe it is called Dump The Dems Day. I watch The Humanist Report on youtube. He is young and for real. I think you will like it.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
NOT after the primary! After the convention!!
Or sure as heck, they'll somehow use the defection of Dem voters to deny Bern any power at the convention.
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Must announce to DNC when doing it
The more the merrier.
Also, need to be very public, announcing to DNC.
Have been an Independent since Clintons/DLC/ThirdWay/Al From took over the party I used to be a member of!
I'd go a step further
and coordinate an en masse party change right BEFORE Philadelphia, to send the message loud and clear to the Super Delegates. We will NOT get behind Hillary. Better pick Sanders if you truthfully are there to avoid another McGovern.
Scared that the sacred money cow may be under threat
What with the Republican Party antics whilst trying to congeal around a candidate that none of the elite actually can stand the DP elite got the wind blown up their nether regions and reacted in a desperate way. The calls for unity are a menace in themselves due to the terminology being used when ordering it.
Corrupt and outdated parties worried that the gravy train is running dry
What's really ironic is that by doing so they actually are
hastening the demise of the two party structure that they rely on for their power and influence.
If they wouldn't have thrown every roadblock imaginable against Sanders and instead embraced him it would have staved off that event for at least another decade or so.
Of course, Sanders is also a threat to their Vulture Capitalistic ways, so I guess they were in a lose-lose scenario so they took a gamble.
I think they are underestimating the damage this is going to do to the party and was a losing bet.
The chances that the Democratic Party will find itself in the dustbin of history alongside the Whigs is significant. The only way I can see them fending off their demise at this point is if they do another flip and just become the Center-Right party openly and court the moderate republicans.
I am quite sure at this point they are dead to those that truly hold progressive ideals higher than party loyalty.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
At 43% and rising
indie voters I'd say that the party Royalist's are out numbered. They love to flaunt their Rovian math as reality but everybody who's brain is not washed and isn't full of fear knows that this primary was rigged. What i do not understand is why even the so called Dem. 'progressive's' in DC went along with the anti-democratic coronation by fiat coup. Politics and political party's are not static the Vichy Dem. party need to become and ex-party. Their contempt and arrogance of basic democratic principles, the systems of balance of power, checks and balances is breathtaking.
The insiders do not care
Otherwise they would have dump DWS after the 2010 elections or most certainly after the blood bath of 2014. They do not care as long as their
sugar daddiesdonors keep supporting themDo I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
And as long as they can scare
And as long as they can scare us enough to continue voting for the lesser of two evils.
Kaine was DNC chair in 2010
DWS headed the Red to Blue program and refused to support the Dem candidates in 2008 in order to protect 3 of her Republican friends. For that alone, she should never have been put into any leadership position.
Tim Kaine, the DNC chair (another DLC idiot) put down the 2010 loss to the fact that the Dems weren't bipartisan enough and didn't pass enough Republican legislation. What he conveniently forgot was that prior to the 2010 convention, President Obama's Cat Food Commission (cuts to senior programs) was getting a lot of media attention and Senior groups were sending out mailers telling seniors to contact Congress and tell them not to supports cuts to SS and Medicare. Seniors came out in force in 2010 and switched from supporting the Dems like in 2006 & 2008 (52%) to voting Republican. Dems share of senior support dropped to 39% in 2010.
Agree but it's not the "Democratic Party" who is afraid
It is the leadership of the Democratic Party who is afraid of Bernie Sanders. He has demonstrated that a candidate can run a successful campaign by asking a large base of people to donate the monetary equivalent of a night at the movies for two.
The 'leaders' of the DP have spent years cultivating relationships with wealthy donors who support progressive social programs (ie. doing stuff for women, children & people of color that doesn't involve spending any money... which is ironic since these are among the poorest demographics in this country). The fact that they are connected with wealthy donors gives these leaders a lot of power within the DP - they can control what candidates do by controlling the money.
If Bernie transforms the party, then any populist candidate who connects to his/her constituents will not need to crawl to these 'leaders' and true progressive programs can happen. SO, Bernie is threatening the power structure within the DNC - and that is why they fear him.
Having people leave the DNC en masse right after the convention would give them something else to fear. Imagine the headlines if there were an 'anti-bounce' after the Dem Convention. Maybe these bozos would realize that populist candidates who can fund themselves directly from their constituency do not have to be Democrats to win!
Not Sure I Can Take Much More
The difference between Republicans and Democrats
Republicans don't want you to vote.
Democrats don't want your vote to matter.
Top Comment!
Exactly right!
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
That is our best option right now
Changing registration the next day after the primary will strike the most fear into their corrupt lizard brains.
We should get this at the tipping point on twitter, reddit and, for those of you so connected, facebook.
Scare the shit out of the fuckers....we will hang with Bernie until they call out the dogs.
The blinders are off and the proles are honing their pitchforks.
I am pissed off, can you tell????
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the four tine work well
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
That picture is offensive and appalling and disgusting
on any number of levels and I ask you to remove it from this essay.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Yuck. Gotta agree with Phoebe. That's a pitchfork too far.
Grosses me out. Can we please not go there?
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Since the original poster hasn't responded I will appeal
to the mods. Is there moderation of these threads? This picture is beyond the pale IMO. It's violent, and sick and gross.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Got it Phoebe...
I just now saw your comment in the left sidebar. Don't hesitate using the "Contact Us" link or PM in the future.
Damn! Looks like I missed something interesting! I gotta be
faster on the draw.
(If it was bad it was probably from one of our Emporium's competitors.
)
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Thank you. nt.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Photobegone! Thank you, JtC!
What happened to your vacation? Taking an evening off from being off?
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Vacation?
Was ist das? It's turned into a working vacation. I got your email earlier, I'll get back to you.
You're such a good guy! BTW, there's an amusing suggestion for
blog security in my latest diary.
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Thanks!
I just sent a couple messages and come to find out, problem solved!
sorry phoebe
Didn't check back till this AM. No offense meant! I'm not sure of the origin it's in the photo links on the site.
Again sorry I grossed anyone out!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Petition?
Not too savvy about this ( congenital luddite) but would a Petition help this go viral?
Inviting anyone to leave the Democratic Party and registering as an Independent in HONOR of Bernie ( and Jane) Sanders and Our Movement.
Apologies if this is too weird - just DESPERATE to derail the Clintons & DWS/DNC/DLC
It's interesting...
People can write about corrupt, criminal fuckers with lizard brains, and it's applauded. When I wrote that anyone who undermines the left by dividing it would be a "boneheaded nudnick," I got people attacking me for "name-calling."
I hope that when this is over, some semblance of perspective and reality will seep back into the brains of people who are more upset about coming close and losing than they would ever be about never having a shot. The proper response to coming close and losing is to prepare earlier, work harder, recruit reinforcements and do more to win the next time out, or maybe the time after that.
That's what a team that loses in the playoffs does, so that it come back and win the next time around. Even Leicester City didn't win the Premier League the first time out after coming up from the second division. First, they had to survive a relegation battle, to come back and win the League the next season for the greatest upset in the history of soccer league competition.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Your contempt was aimed at a lot of your fellow posters here
You were trying to apply disparaging labels to and exert emotional pressure on the very people you were replying to.
Though it’s obviously true that calling politicians, party operatives, members of the elite, etc. names is also name-calling, those figures are far away and not our direct conversation partners.
That’s what makes it different from what you were doing.
What you call contempt...
..I identify as exasperation and despair.
And, it's not different if the objects of your contempt are farther away, because it just as surely ends any possibility of having a productive dialogue.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Mods’ job is to stop a culture of trading insults from forming.
A glance around the Web shows what happens when that’s tolerated.
If person T says to person U “You’re an idiot,” that’s an insult.
If person T says to person U “Anyone who says [what U just said] / does [what U just suggested] is an idiot,” that’s an insult too.
Ideally, everyone here would just respect whoever they respond to and avoid psychological dominance games (insult, condescension, passive-aggressive setups, etc.).
Whatever the emotion or motivation — perhaps it’s just a matter of ditching bad habits acquired elsewhere — try to avoid insulting, or talking down to, one’s conversation partners in a thread.
What you call contempt...
..I identify as exasperation and despair.
And, it's not different if you believe the objects of your contempt are farther away, because it just as surely ends any possibility of having a productive dialogue.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
sure
Because being intentionally obtuse to the strong feelings of your fellow commenters is the very best way to start off a "productive dialogue".
Behave like an asshole, and I'll treat you like an asshole.
Were not talking
about a frigging soccer game here. This is not about being on a corporately sponsored team. This is not a partisan site so I see no reason for you to expect the people here to take kindly to calls for unity behind a totally rigged 'game'. Better luck next time? Yeah right, and I do mean right. I hope reality seeps into your washed brain. What you win in reality is more important then being true to your
school.political party. The left is not divided it has been 'disenfranchised' by a party that refuses to fight for ordinary people, our rights civil and human and our democracy. The Third Way New Demorat's are not democratic they're not even Democratic.That's the most coherent reply I've received
What I'd say in response is that you're still focusing on the Clintons -- while I'm talking about the prospects for a future progressive takeover of the Democratic Party, and the missed opportunity if people walk away from the party. If the Clintons controlled the Democratic Party, Kathleen Matthews would be the nominee for my CD. But, she isn't. One of the great progressive legislators, Jamie Raskin is, despite the millions Matthews raised from Clinton's inner circle. There's so much promise in this moment, and instead of poising for the coming campaigns and certain victory, y'all are talking about walking away. I'm talking about something much bigger and longer-lasting than the Clintons or a Third Way. There is no Third Way movement left in the Democratic party. Don't confuse what's happened here. The most famous woman in the world -- the candidate that's been prepped for this moment for almost 2 decades and had the greatest campaign organization of any primary candidate ever, defeated a guy that most party members didn't know and a significant percentage didn't trust. From that you're deciding that the party is closed to an insurgent candidate? Rubbish. Another Obama would have beaten her. Sanders, for all his credibility, wasn't a great candidate. His debate performances weren't good. He repeated the same stump speech everywhere he went. A better candidate could have won. The next time around, we might. If we're still around for that fight.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
whatever
Your understanding of people and politics is even weaker than your understanding of footie.
Maybe next time make a lame reference to Derby County you patronizing jerk.
Bernie Sanders could still win outright
Despite the Media's declaration that the race is all over (and that Bernie must "get out of the way"), the fact is that Clinton will not have the correct number of pledged delegates, and that does mean .... that the Convention itself will be a contested one.
Sanders can point to hard evidence that he is both the strongest Democratic option for the Party in the General Election, and also that he attracts far more Independent voters and disaffected Republican voters. His favorability ratings are higher. His ceiling is higher. And .. yes.. he is not under any investigations, and has no scandals to hide from.
So Sanders can still prevail, if the Super delegates actually care about winning. And while they may not, this is a battle worth fighting until the last delegate has been counted on July 25.
So get out and vote today, and check the ballot (do not accept a "provisional" ballot).
The race is still on .... much to the dismay of the Media (its fun to see them squeal like a pig)
While I agree that Bernie can still win...
...if the super delegates cared about winning, the fatal flaw in this argument is that the super delegates care about "winning". They all serve the same masters as the Republican'ts, so it really doesn't matter who "wins", as long as the status quo is maintained and the millionaires, billionaires and transnational corporations are still calling the shots...
I want my two dollars!
Plus they can blame Bernie like they Blame Ralph Nader
If The Donald wins, they'll turn this into another propaganda tool to discourage actual progressives for another decade or two.
BTW: I keep hearing them say we should vote for Hillary instead of Trump because he is a crazy racist that could cause a lot of devastation. I keep asking myself "How many Muslims have died as a consequence of Trump's decisions?" and "How many times has he bragged & laughed at ordering someone killed?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
Not Sure I Can Take Much More
I'm not buying the anti-Trump hype...
...and generally reject fear-based politics as a rule. IMHO, a Trump presidency will be four years of absolutely nothing getting done. He has no natural constituency in Congress, and while Republican'ts think now that they will mold him into their own image, once they figure out what everybody else already knows they will then choose to ignore him for the remaining 3 years and nine months of his doomed, single-term presidency. As for the Supreme Court, we'll get neoliberal corporatists whether it's Clinton or Trump, so absent a Sanders presidency we're fucked either way...
I want my two dollars!
Trump w Newt Ginghrich as VP in recent reports
With Gingrich as the actor behind the clown -- I don't want that for my country.
I tend to agree
I think the DNC is over-playing its hand with "Vote for hillary or the
terroristsTrump will win."Trump has already started trying to win over Bernie Supporters and he has plenty of ammo to use against Hillary (e.g. her hawkishness, bankruptcy bill, e-mail server, HVF & CGI). Hillary supporters seem to think that the fact that the Clintons have been investigated for decades with only one substantial loss (Poor Bill) means that they'll never lose again.
Frankly, Hillary will spend 4 years defending herself against investigations so she'll be no more likely to get things done as Trump is. She'll envy Obama's bargaining leverage.
Not Sure I Can Take Much More
Good Points
Clinton will also start more Wars, send in more troops, and create more chaos (and terrorists) with "Regime Change" policies. Plus, she will foolishly direct new hostilities at Russia (she once referred to Putin as "the new Hitler").
I want Sanders to continue on by joining forces with Jill Stein/Green Party. He has a 45% voting block of the Democrats, and the ability to attract Independents much more than Clinton ever win.
Bernie Sanders should be committed to this movement, and not bow down to the Party self-interest (which is also really unconcerned about winning .. as their horse is the one with all the scandals and horrible record).
I dunno. If Tricky Dick Nixon had lived today, I don't think
he'd have had to resign. The system seems to have broken the Constitution. Now it's just used to legitimize gun sales and unlimited money in elections. Nobody but the poor and powerless goes to prison anymore. And that includes whistleblowers. See the documentary, "Silenced" streaming on Netflix.
I think this is just another Clinton dirty trick, considering Bill's pronouncement that Bernie would be "toast." It's almost as if he knew something beforehand. Hmm.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I compared hrc to tricky dicky
in the BNR at TOP today. Great minds are thinking about this phenomenon!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
You're not alone RA
Even USA today is comparing them-
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/06/03/hillary-clinton-email-s...
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
It just fits, doesn't it, Lookout? eom
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I heard Barbara Boxer on Stephanie Miller today,
and all I could think, listening to her barely-controlled contempt for ... um ... well, me, really ... was that she lives in such an extraordinary bubble that she has no historical perspective left.
I spent the remaining 15 minutes of my commute trying to think of a single policy on which HRC stands to the left of Nixon, and I came up empty.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I can't listen to Stephanie Miller.
She's too in the bag for hrc. I can't stomach it.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
it's her turn, damn it
And she has the money and connections to make it so. She's not going to be denied just because people won't get with the program. Her entitlement overrules what any silly and ignorant voters might think they want. Like any authoritarian, she expects you to believe what she says without question. In her royal bubble, she's not accustomed to being challenged, and doesn't feel obliged to answer any questions from the unwashed rabble. That she'd do this kind of desperate shit should come as no surprise. She's dismissive of voters in general unless they support her. Meanwhile, out here in our reality, she appears to have all the authenticity of Mitt Romney, and the tone deafness to match. For cripe's sake, she praised Nancy Reagan for her AIDS advocacy... (I always wondered if that was her version of Trump's "I could shoot someone on 5th Av. and people would still vote for me")
sure, but *you're* the one with privilege
this primary season has been so weird and revealing. I still think she'll win the election since Trump is unacceptable to so many Republicans but 2020 will see a more reasonable seeming Republican trouncing Hillary when she runs for re-election.
Think you're under estimating A.B.C.
The hatred for Clintons ( corruption, hubris, lies, and more lies) is so strong, both parties, I think Trump will beat her if she's the nominee.
Clintons are a GOTV magnet for Republicans. Even if Republican "establishment" won't support Trump, he's got numbers who want to fight their establishment.
Reading some of the comments in the New York Times, the Washington Post = astonishing hatred of the Clintons. Much stronger than "fear" of Trump.
Yes, to your last line
along with claiming Henry Fucking Kissinger as a friend and mentor. My God, even my moderate Republican friends found that amazingly tone deaf - asking a Liberal to vote for you after calling that war criminal a mentor???
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Thunder on the Left
I'm waiting to see which way Bernie jumps. He could go full Kucinich (not likely) or he keeps fighting the good fight to the bitter end.
Did Howard Cosell call the fight for George Foreman in the tenth round? I mean it was very clear that Foreman had Ali on the ropes. It was a clear cut conclusion that Ali was out of gas.
Bernie Fucking Sanders!
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Well I just heard some Democrat talking head
not in the same room so I couldn't see who it was, but they said that Bernie could come back to the Senate after the unity play and have a powerful Committee Chair appointment or . . . . ..
Or what? See his office moved into a closet off the Congressional Dining room that houses the grease trap? That's kind of the impression I got. Bernie has got to be under some incredible pressure to drop out. I think he has the moral fiber to withstand all the blandishments and coercion.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
I both think, and hope, that you are right...
I am pretty sure he does, but I have no idea what pressures are being brought to bear on him, Obama didn't spend 45 minutes on the phone with him shooting the shit about hoops, that's for sure.
I hope he does stick it through and doesn't capitulate because such a move would hurt his ability to keep the momentum going smoothly for this movement, because let's face it, every movement needs a figurehead just like every band needs a front man.
Sure, there are others that can assume that roll, but that slows down the process and breaks the unity as different factions back different leaders.
It has been probably the biggest stumbling block we as progressives have to overcome. We don't unite together like our nutty brethren in the tea party do, but right now, at this moment in time, we are more united behind Sanders than we EVER have been in the past for as far back as I can remember.
I really don't want to lose that.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
On the plus side... he's retirement age
He doesn't NEED to stay in the Senate, he does it because he's a fighter.
But I think if he thinks this fight is important enough, the threat of a crappy office or being marginalized in the Senate won't matter. He can walk away when this is done, or work from outside politics.
It's not like he has a 40 year career ahead of him. Maybe that's why he chose to do this now.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.
That was my thought exactly.
Couple that with his long history of doing the right thing even when it wasn't the politically expedient thing to do is where most of my hope comes from.
I just can't see a man that has fought this hard for this long going, "oh, ok, you guys win.".
Sure, if he would have lost, but they ran an honest race without all the thumbs on the scale I think he would have done just that, because he is an honest man and would accept an honest outcome.
However, with all the crap he has had pulled on him from both the MSM and the DNC I would like to see him start screaming even more loudly:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvK1F-Thrzk]
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I won't blame him
whether he stays in or bows out, nor whether he supports Hillary in the end or not. He will do what he feels is best for us, I am sure. He has been very effective within his office, and he may just choose to remain and fight as he has done, as one of very few real progressives in Congress.
Meanwhile, we will have to cultivate new leaders and create new governing structures in order to be able to step in and stand strong immediately when the inevitable, free-falling slow motion self-implosions take place in the two major parties.
May I say, OT, it is nice to be here where we can speak more freely and without rancor? I've been over at the old place and tried to support our remaining friends there, but the stew is one toxic, abusive, vicious mess. When the subject is unity, I'm sorry, but I don't hang out with people like that IRL, and I'm not gonna do it online either.
Fern
Agreed 1000% The way we can disagree yet still remain civil
with each other fosters an honest dialog on important issues.
I want disagreement, it keeps me thinking. I can't imagine a more boring existence than one where everyone agreed with me 100%.
What I can do without is disagreement accompanied by ad-hominem attacks and bullying. Something that has become so prevalent at the Great Orange Shit-show to the point that I only go there once a week if that and then only to "Monitor the actions of the enemy" so to speak.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Jane Sanders
No one has mentioned this, but I think JANE SANDERS has the fortitude too, and will be helping Bernie to STAND TALL.
Agree he is strong - and I just don't see him caving - they've got nothing to offer.
Pay off campaign debt? Ain't got any?
Make him SOS? No Way!
I think Jane and Bernie are MOVEMENT BUILDERS - and that will be first and foremost.
While he gets a "voice" in the platform, and some damn good people speaking on his behalf. We all know that's not a big deal. Symbolic, yes. Value, minimal.
FBI has the leverage now. Can't wait to see what happens there.
Maybe there is another way to read this ...
Since the FBI is making noise that they have something substantial, and Obama has never been Hillary's biggest fan (and very unlikely to tarnish his legacy with supporting her to run for president after the FBI recommend indictment), maybe Obama wants to coordinate things so the Dems have a viable plan "B."
Sure, the DNC can anoint Joe Biden as the nominee - but, if they did that, they'd practically be daring Bernie's supporters to vote for Dr Stein or some other third party candidate.
Maybe Obama wants to see what sort of concessions Bernie might be willing to make if the DNC chose him... the establishment isn't going to give up without a fight.
Of course, I may just be optimistic about Hillary losing support...
Not Sure I Can Take Much More
Committee Chair???
LMAO!!!
Last I saw, the Rethugs control the Senate and I doubt the Dems will pick up enough seats anyway. Bernie has been the ranking minority member (D) in the past, so nothing new here to see.
Plus, my take on Bernie is that personal aggrandizements of any kind are simply not what motivates him. That is the problem he presents. Bernie is as close to an honest politician that I have seen in my entire life. If he does not get the nom, he will go back to the Senate and continue to do what he always has, working the system to get something for the people.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Chuck Schumer (aka Sen. Wall Street and/or C,ampion of Israel)
is not a fan of Bernie Sanders + he will be an even bigger obnoxious establishment shill when Harry Reid retires, which will put him at odds with Bernie, and I imagine, as the ranking party leader, he will have the last word on how Bernie is treated should he return to the Senate. (and he also seems like a petty little man).
As George Carlin might have put it,
It’s a big club sandwich, and you ain’t in it.
For a Rhodes scholar,
he sure sounds like an idiot. Maybe it is the start of early dementia. Recd!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Bill always was book-smart and reality-stupid
Why else would he flaunt his willie in the Oval Office when he knew the Republicans were Out To Get Him?
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
If I could give Bernie one word of advice it would be
to stop talking about super delegates and how much better he polls over Trump. Most people know what the subtext is of staying in the race until the convention - that it's all about the potential of HRC getting indicted. I don't think Bernie needs any excuse for staying in other than "I told my supporters I was in until the convention. I plan on keeping my word."
Very appropriate for our universal Grandpa Bernie (that's why we're all voting for him, right?) to echo the immortal words of Horton the elephant " I said what I meant and meant what I said, An elephant's faithful 100 percent."
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Martial Arts
From time to time I encounter a martial arts wannabe. Invariably they are into developing the ability to execute grandiose power intensive routines. I patiently try to explain the true nature of the discipline and of discipline in general. Too often they are incapable (even when demonstrated) of grasping the concept of "Only what is necessary and with humility executed."
This observation is the right observation:
this is their Achilles Heel. This is the truth that can not be denied. None can say, "So what!" All else is window dressing, smoke and mirrors, shills confusing the mark before the sting. From this point all follows inexorably to the behavior we are witnessing. When one is entitled, one can do not wrong.
This I think is were we should build the foundation. I think this is where Bernie wants place the focus (fulcrum?) but others want to shift to "how you want to change the rules" and other such stupidity. If Bernie wins big in California and arrives at the convention really tied with Hillary then then we can focus on this very real issue about superdelegates and not get distracted by extraneous issues.
The super delegate scam is undeniable
as is the corruption in general. Every time they talk about something else it will reinforce the central issue of this election: corruption.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I can't imagine Bernie quitting now. eom
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I can't change
registration, here in Florida, until after the Democratic primary in August. Would love to leave the Dem party in protest, but in a closed primary state that all but locks me out of local elections.
Good idea to stay in then, do what's best in your area
If there are progressive Dems to support in the primary, that's where you most need to be.
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Important race here for us in Florida
The Florida primary in August has Alan Grayson versus Patrick Murphy for the Dem. nom for Senator. I will be voting for Grayson. Flawed as Grayson is, he is a far sight better than the former Republican turned Dem, Murphy. Another DWS/Blue Dog Dem. No thank you.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Oh my, yes! After the drubbing he took at TOP, I'd love to
see YUUGE turnout for him in Florida, partially as an act of defiance in the face of the conservaDems!
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Stop looking for conspiracies
This is what the media does. It's what the media has always done. Try to be the first to have the story -- the first to have the call. It's why the AP tracks the races in this way to begin with, counting the delegates and trying to present a running tally. This is just the logical end result. They did the same thing with Trump. They talked to some unpledged delegates and found out they would vote for the person in the lead -- so they moved their votes into that column. End of story.
Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. There's no meaning there. It's just doing what a cigar does. AP is just doing what AP does.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Have they done it before? Do they generally do this?
It's not really a conspiracy when they are so blatantly biased, is it? A conspiracy generally connotes something hidden from view. None of this has been hidden from view.
Maybe the media has always called races before votes are cast, but I don't seem to remember that happening. They might "project" so-and-so will win, but I don't recall seeing announcements that so-and-so "clinches" nomination before votes were cast previously.
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