While Rome Burns

It's time for a long overdue rant. I just learned that I lost another friend to cancer. He was 58 years old and the 3rd friend I've lost to cancer in the past 6 months. Why can't we beat this disease? Why aren't we fighting harder? Why don't we do a better job of caring for our own people instead of policing the whole damn world?

Our so-called leaders have never found a military boondoggle they can't wait to throw money at. There's no country too remote or too obscure for us to give foreign aid to or try to destablilize. Our Congress is too busy fucking around with impeachment to work on advancing the health of our nation.

Meanwhile, we're fighting wars, often in places we have no place being. We've spent 3 trillion taxpayer dollars ($3,000,000,000,000) on Middle East wars over the past 20 years. During the same period, we spent just 3% of that amount on Federal cancer research. How many lives would have been saved if just 1 of that 3 trillion dollars had gone to fighting cancer instead of fighting for and against people who have been squabbling amongst themselves for thousands of years and will likely continue doing so for thousands more to come?

Meanwhile, over 600,000 Americans each year die from cancer. Funding for the National Cancer Institute (NCI) averages just $5 billion per year. Compare that to the $50 billion spent on foreign aid in 2017, $20 billion of which was military aid. Did the world really need $20 billion more weapons? Are our priorities messed up or what? While helping people around the world is considered the moral thing to do, isn't doing everything we can to help our own people who are suffering and dying also moral?

Just as important as curing cancer is stopping it from developing in the first place. Astoundingly, even though NCI states that "Much of the progress against cancer in recent decades has stemmed from successes in the areas of prevention and control", just 5% of the total Federal cancer budget goes to prevention and control. How many lives would be saved if just that portion of the NCI budget was dramatically increased?

I find it appalling that we spent $25 billion training the Iraqi army (which lost to a ragtag ISIS militia of just 1,300 fighters in 2014) while underfunding cancer research. I find it unconscionable that we're giving Ukraine $400 million dollars in free weapons at the same time 610,000 Americans will die of cancer this year.

Isn't it time we do better for ourselves?

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36 users have voted.

Comments

Cancer is the plague of my family.

I can tell you, though, that I know a rather high-profile bio scientist who thinks that right now, increasing our investment in cancer research is a low-return proposition. There are at least a couple of problems, not the least being, simply, this: Cancer appears to be a more or less "natural" phenomenon of our biology. There are only a handful of animals that are not susceptible. We need a better understanding of the basic molecular biology before we can make much more progress.

Note, I am paraphrasing someone else's opinions there -- I'm not representing them. He gave me his view after I had expressed my befuddlement that the world's billionaires would rather sit on their piles of cash than spend themselves down to only "incomprehensibly wealthy" to attack a health problem that is almost guaranteed to kill, if not themselves, then several of the not-very-many people who actually matter to them.

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18 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

edg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

We need a better understanding of the basic molecular biology

Biology instead of bombs. Research instead of regime change. Prevention instead of precision munitions. Let's open the spigot and put the money where it'll get the best bang for the buck. We've killed enough brown skinned people.

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17 users have voted.

All doctors. @edg The answers are there. MSM casts aspersions on them, but we know better...

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4 users have voted.

@edg
of that research are either:

A. PhD students who typically earn (at a top-tier place) maybe 20k per year (for a "50%" time job -- yeah right), despite being amongst the most capable, intelligent, diligent and highly-trained workers in our society. They'll normally spend 6 years in this penury (the 4-year PhD is a fanciful legend of days of yore).

B. Post-docs who typically earn 45-60k per year (for a "full-time" job -- yeah, right, if you think 70-hour weeks is a "full-time" job). These are the most capable, intelligent, diligent and highly-trained workers in our society. A normal post-doc has 12 years of grade-school and secondary education, 4 years of undergraduate education, 3 years of post-graduate coursework (equivalent to 5 or 6 years of undergraduate coursework), and 3 years of post-coursework research apprenticeship in pursuit of the PhD. The period of post-apprenticeship apprenticeship normally lasts 2 to 4 years, often requiring one or even two moves, not just across campus but possibly across the country -- or even out of the country (the one-year post-doc as a preparation for the independence of a tenure-track career is a fanciful legend of days of yore.).

Emerging from that post-doc, only a fraction will win tenure-track jobs; the rest will work in industry, starting out at 60k to 100k depending on their credentials and their employer. 31 or 32 years old, owning nothing, saddled with significant undergraduate (and likely, graduate) student debt, often living in some of the most expensive parts of the country (san diego, the bay area, boston, maryland), and guess what -- still expected to work 60-70 hour weeks.

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13 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Pluto's Republic's picture

...Afghanistan. Iraq's has had universal health care since the 1970s, but the US destroyed it and a critical number of Iraq's hospitals when they invaded. So, the US Taxpayers also fund Universal health care in Iraq.

The US does not support the American people because we are not a communist nation. We are a Capitalist Republic. That's means we are free to take care of ourselves. Americans are too busy worrying that some Mexicans might get health care to notice. Americans who get sick or injured in Mexico or Canada or just about anywhere outside the US, are generally not charged for medical care.

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21 users have voted.

The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus

@Pluto's Republic It is about growing up learning to care for your biologic being. We should be educating our 12-18 yr old children on how to care for their magnificent bodies/beings. The naturopaths can do this. Boom. [This is something I have had to develop for myself in my 50s; otherwise I would be dead]. This is a new paradigm. IT IS HUGE

baking soda (pH)
garlic
magnesium oil
sunshine
B vitamins
eggs
olive oil

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6 users have voted.

@p cook
are subject to an array of pathologies. there is no magical dietary solution to that reality. the naturopaths can not overcome that reality. your wonderful amazing body is not endowed with any sort of magical immunity to any and all biological and/or physical assaults, either from without or from within. we are not invulnerable to disease, anymore than we are invulnerable to sharks and mountain lions. nothing in a billion years of evolution has made us so. nothing in a billion years of evolution could have made us so.

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8 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd Our bodies have the ability to cleanse, rebuild. When we fast (as in the biblical sense; water only), our cellular selves get busy pushing out dead cells and creating new cells. This is nothing magical. It is biological. The Western medical monopoly has us believing that IT. IS. SCIENCE. It is not. Break free.

For instance; I have tendonitis in my left hip; I am a cook (I have a BS University degree; I am many things) and move around like a tennis player. What finally worked to end the pain/inflammation was fasting for 15 hrs a day. No more pain. Those 15 hours my body didn't have to digest food were spent dampening/healing the daily workings of my hip tendons.

Magic indeed.

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5 users have voted.

@p cook
whatever.

i don't believe in any god or spirit, so the word "sacred" is utterly without meaning to me.

you go ahead and believe what it comforts you to believe.

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

But don't let the science I discussed hit you in ass...

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2 users have voted.

@p cook
to riff on Jon Lovitz as the Prince of Darkness, when I start being mean, you'll know it.

but fret not, i've said all i have to say with respect to your understanding of the character of the pathologies that afflict human beings, and i will leave it now as i already have done: Believe what it comforts you to believe. Such is your birthright.

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd You better get it! And after age 50 get a colonoscopy every 5 years! Are you on statins? I hope your cholesterol is within range! Stay away from saturated fats. They will kill you! Stay out of the sun. It will kill you - melanoma! omg!

And make sure to follow your dentist's every recommendation! It's only prudent! You have it together.

[And go back to top, please]

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3 users have voted.
edg's picture

@p cook

Nobody should be told to go back to top, even as a joke.

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12 users have voted.

@p cook
you and me?

I conceded your right to believe what you like.

You, by contrast, are attempting to bully me into leaving this forum, because you don't like to be confronted with my beliefs.

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9 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@p cook

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7 users have voted.
Creosote.'s picture

@p cook
the Bayer/Monsanto chemical introduced about 1973 (see Wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_(herbicide) which is now present even in wine and beer, as well as crackers, Cheerios, Ben 'n Jerry's ice cream, and many other foods not clearly labeled no-GMO. And perhaps on your shoes an your chilren's clothes if you have to have a perfect weed-free lawn.
For more current information the Organic Consumes Association runs an excellent website, and so does their offshoot on Regenerative Agriculture.
This chemical (and its even more toxic excipients) is also used to dessicate crops, making harvest more convenient, so it can be present in sugar, as well as in milk when the cows have fed on weed-free alfalfa. The loss of songbirds over many parts of the country is caused by the fact that It kills insects and soil organisms too.
Go No-GMO if you can.

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12 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@Creosote.

Critically important: Avoid glyphosate

the Bayer/Monsanto chemical introduced about 1973 (see Wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_(herbicide) which is now present even in wine and beer, as well as crackers, Cheerios, Ben 'n Jerry's ice cream, and many other foods not clearly labeled no-GMO. And perhaps on your shoes an your chilren's clothes if you have to have a perfect weed-free lawn.

Regardless of GMO status, most of our food has traces of glyphosate in it, as do we ourselves. The stuff's environmentally insidious. If you've set foot in a hardware or garden supply store in the past 5 years, you're contaminated. Those weedless lawns are largely to blame, as it means any dumbass out there can obtain glyphosate anonymously and easily to use as (s)he pleases.

Our best hope is that ever more nations join the World Health Organization and recognize glyphosate as an human carcinogen, and ban it outright, like another Bayer product before it:

source

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8 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Cassiodorus's picture

@Pluto's Republic Or at least documented personal experience wherein you know this?

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1 user has voted.

"I was Zuckerberging people before Zuckerberg's balls dropped." -- the Devil, on "Rick and Morty"

edg's picture

@Cassiodorus

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cassiodorus

But I'm not sure which source you looking for. I did drop a lot of facts in this thread. I assure you I reverified everything again before I posted.

I know my facts are outrageous.

Was this your question?

The US Taxpayers pay for universal health care for everyone in Afghanistan.

Iraq's has had universal health care since the 1970s, but the US destroyed it and a critical number of Iraq's hospitals when they invaded. So, the US Taxpayers also fund Universal health care in Iraq.

...I have known about this for a very long time.

I checked it again before I posted it.

I asked Google:

"Does the US pay for Universal health care in Afghanistan?"

"Does the US pay for Universal health care in Iraq?"

Yep, they do.

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3 users have voted.

The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus
CB's picture

YouTube has a video of my operation - staples and all.

The surgeon also removed lymph nodes to check whether it has metastasized outside of the colon. Will get a report soon.

The most painful part was I contracted a virulent form of pneumonia that kicked the shit out of me while I was recovering from the operation in the hospital. Even taking a small breath caused extreme pain behind my ribs. Things are now improving but I still feel like I got kicked in the chest by a horse.

The cancer was detected through a simple FIT test which tested positive for occult blood in the feces. A colonoscopy confirmed I had a cancerous growth in the ascending colon. This was lucky - if it was in the descending colon I would have to have a stoma installed and a bag attached until the colon healed completely.

For now I have to wear Big Boy Pull-ups until my plumbing gets properly re-established. The medication for pneumonia set me back considerably. One has 30 to 90 seconds lead time between a gurgling deep in the bowels and a toilet.

I highly advise anyone over 50 take the FIT test. It is cheap and has a high reliability. Cancer is a disease which needs to be detected as early as possible. They can snip off cancerous polyps during a colonoscopy if they're small enough saving a major operation.

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21 users have voted.
edg's picture

@CB

I had pneumonia twice and it almost killed me twice. And that was without the complications added by cancer. I wish you the best and hope for a full recovery.

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13 users have voted.

@CB but so glad you are on the mend!

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7 users have voted.
Creosote.'s picture

@CB
You are on my list of the strongest, best-grounded, most articulate posters here, and I've missed you. Let us know if we can help you in any way.

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9 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

...has squeezed all the money out of the disease yet. They have no incentive to find a cure.

This site publishes an up-to-date collection of news and medical journal articles that say promising cancer cures are suppressed or purchased and buried every year. Because that's the only thing that makes sense. I know many people who have taken matters quietly into their own hands. That works with some cancers. Only the wealthy can afford custom biological medicine, but the success rate is high. It requires a suitcase full of cash, however. Insurance won't touch it.

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18 users have voted.

The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus

@Pluto's Republic
produces complete annihilation. Steve Jobs survived much, much, much longer than the typical pancreatic cancer patient, but in the end the cancer outmaneuvered the doctors.

I doubt claims of suppressed therapies, for two simple reasons:
A. I personally know cancer researchers, and there's no way they'd buy into any such scheme. Generally, they hate cancer the way that climate scientists hate AGCC (I also know some climate scientists, which is how I know they aren't a bunch of hoaxers inventing AGCC hypotheses just so they can ride an NSF-funded gravy train.).
B. I understand enough of the biology to understand what it would take for something to be a silver bullet. Cancer is tough exactly because some of the cancer cells are very nearly normal -- they just have a small number of mutations that make them successful bad actors, and those mutations produce "behaviors" that are actually pretty normal in the proper circumstances.

How do you target a cell whose only crimes are that it manages to:
A. Not kill itself when it no longer is getting the intercellular signals that tell it, "You're in the right place."
B. Present to the immune system as if it were somebody it is not -- so it doesn't get killed for hanging out in the wrong place.
C. Signal the vascular system to provide it with a blood supply.

Access to a blood supply is a big deal, by the way, because without it, tumors are limited in their size -- the inner cells don't get enough oxygen, start building up free radicals via oxidative stress, and then kill themselves via "apoptosis". This is why anti-oxidants (e.g., Vitamin C and Vitamin E) are probably a good idea for preventing cancer (free radicals can cause DNA damage), but a REALLY BAD IDEA if you already have cancer: They actually protect tumors from oxidative stress while the tumors are waiting for their blood supply to develop.

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14 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd While most pancreatic cancers metastasize so rapidly they are essentially untreatable, Jobs had a neuroendocrine tumor which was treatable with surgery with a good chance of long-term survival. He delayed surgery for 9 months trying accupuncture, diet changes, etc. By the time he agreed to surgery it was too late. He then tried aggressive treatments but to little avail. He effectively killed himself by delaying surgery.

I will add that you are absolutely correct that most cancer researchers absolutely want to end cancer. They have family members that have died of cancer like everyone else and the prestige and financial rewards of curing even one of the many forms of cancer would be enormous. I will say that for the companies engaged in developing cancer therapies, developing a long-term containment therapy would be much more lucrative than a rapid cure.

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11 users have voted.

@Roy Blakeley
to have been his great missed opportunity. my own comment referred specifically to what happened after he conceded to reality and engaged his unlimited resources in a scientific assault on his tumor. if he'd been a "normal" patient, i doubt he'd have lived 6 months after starting treatment. instead, because he could afford to have his tumors repeatedly analyzed, and treatment adjusted accordingly, he was able to stave off the inevitable.

once cancer has seriously taken off in your body, it's not necessarily a single cancer, but an innumerable collection of related but distinct pathogens. the most virulent cancers usually have damage to the genes responsible for the orderly replication of the chromosomes during cell division. what you end up with are lots of different cells with lots of different "karyotypic abnormalities" -- meaning, not just mutations within genes, but chromosomes sheared in two, or copied multiple times. in high school biology you learn (inaccurately, BTW) that every cell in your body has a single nucleus with exactly 23 pairs of chromosomes. cancer cells can have ... well, just about anything. the famous HeLa cells derived from Henrietta Lacks's cervical cancer can have ... okay, I couldn't find a page that cited "most ever", but at least one cited "70-90" chromosomes, many of which have been shuffled and cut up into abnormal configurations.

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11 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@UntimelyRippd

...as long as you're leaving 'precision medicine' out of your calculation, for example. Advanced Cancer protocals are not widely used because it is so terribly expensive. The cost of 'precision medicine' is set far out-of-reach of all but the very wealthy. The Insurance companies see it as a futuristic cancer-answer for the Elites, and refuse to cover it.

[Amazingly, Medicare is charting a very different course than the greedy insurers. They will begin covering precision medicine next year, which will finally improve US cancer outcomes compared to fellow OECD developed nations. And at half price if Medicare for All passes. It is a wonderful insurance program, no? Government-run Medicare focuses on the wellbeing of the people's, while insurers are most concerned with lining their own pockets and slipping some fun-money to their shareholders. They know that dividends coupled with constant buybacks will push the share price well beyond its actual value. At the first sign of the looming crash, they'll jump to short their own stock, fleecing their stock-owning customers once again. It's a shame that all Americans do not have access to Medicare — it could save their lives. Plus, during recessions, Americans would at least remain 'health-secure.' No insurance company denials. No premiums to pay. No out-of-pocket costs, and access to every doctor in the country. Best of all, per capita health care spending per-year could very well be cut in half. More money in everyone's pocket]

When patients of modest means leverage their assets to customize their treatment with precision medicine, many find that the ongoing costs cannot be sustained. Most have nowhere to turn. In the end, their families are left holding a mountain of debt that will likely take decades to pay down. Although a few patients find a way to hang in there longer than the reat:

Pricey Precision Medicine
Often Financially Toxic
For Cancer Patients

Medical treatments targeting the DNA in tumor cells are celebrated, but insurers often won’t cover the skyrocketing cost.

By Liz Szabo • NOVEMBER 1, 2018

•  •  •

When Kristen Kilmer was diagnosed with incurable breast cancer at age 38, her first thought was of her 8-year-old daughter. Kilmer lost her own mother as a teenager and was determined to get more time with her only child.

Kilmer searched for experimental treatments, opting for an promising approach in which researchers select drugs based on the genes in patients’ tumors. Doctors have selected her treatments for the past three years based on the unique, ever-changing DNA of her cancer cells. Now 41, Kilmer has responded better than anyone dared to hope. Her cancer has gone into hiding; her tumors are no longer visible on medical scans.

Researchers call the strategy “precision medicine.”

Kilmer’s insurance company calls it "experimental." As a consequence, her insurer has covered only a fraction of her care, forcing Kilmer to make an agonizing choice: The drug she needs, made from her own DNA costs nearly $17,000 a month. If she decides to pay for the treatment out-of-pocket, it will burden her family with tremendous debt.

‘Do I take a medication that might allow me to see her graduate high school?’” says Kilmer, of Spearfish, S.D. “Or do you stop taking it to avoid causing her financial harm?” Kilmer says, adding that she would rather go without her cancer treatment than financially burden her daughter and husband.

The high cost of cutting-edge tests and treatments is threatening to keep precision medicine — one of the most celebrated areas in cancer research — out of reach for many patients. Patients who pay for these new treatments on their own “could be in debt for decades,” said Dr. Scott Ramsey, director of the Hutchinson Institute for Cancer Outcomes Research in Seattle.

Already cancer care is hugely expensive. A recent study in the American Journal of Medicine found that 42 percent of patients depleted 100 percent of their assets — an average loss of $92,000 — within two years of diagnosis.

Precision medicine involves running expensive tests called genomic sequencing, which scan the DNA of tumors to find mutations that might be susceptible to available drugs. Although the field is relatively new, hundreds of thousands of cancer patients have had their tumors sequenced to identify cancer-related mutations, according to testing companies.

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7 users have voted.

The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus
edg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

The CIC and the MIC aren't going to permit any changes to the current funding arrangements. They'll keep the profits rolling in as long as possible until (maybe -- hopefully -- wishfully) we take things into our own hands and wrest control of our government to the people.

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14 users have voted.

While Rome Burns

becomes

While Bern roams

Wink

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13 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

edg's picture

@QMS

Thank you very much, ladies and germs!! QMS will be here all weekend!!

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12 users have voted.

@edg

Cheers!

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5 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

@QMS

The big C problem lies within the corps feeding us poison.
Where is justice in that?

Less said.

Hooked on it

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7 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

This site is a respite from the conventional. With regard to health; TAKE CONTROL! Here I go... "Fire you doctor!" There is a book with that title...

The medical complex brought to us by the Rockefellers (circa 1900) is beyond contempt. F'n A. I am going to be blunt. You all need to get your heads out of you ass! Stay away from doctors (especially hospitals!) I'm not sure where to start so... Here are a some sources/resoures:

Marc Sircus
Joseph Mercola
peakenergy.com
Carolyn Dean

These people, online, saved my life. I have had AIDS. Liver failure (from pharmaceuticals), kidney failure (from pharms, look I needed them!), cancer in the nether regions, dementia. I have beat it all.

I have beat cancer with baking soda. I saw it in the toilet bowl, [where it belongs!]. Liver congestion/failure, dementia, kidney failure, etc. I have battled and won with natural strategies that utilize the body's healing abilities/purposes. If you spend some time researching, you will find others have too. It is empowering!!

I am currently (I'm 58yo) beating back the bacteria eating away at my teeth. This is the bacteria that dentists refuse to kill because it will destroy 80 percent of their business. (They just drill, fill, and bill!) This bacteria kills teeth and much more (think heart health). If you kill this bacteria that has set up shop in your teeth roots, you can cancel your dental insurance! But it takes some time. Lugol's iodine. I use 5% on cotton rolls

Soak a roll, apply it to your gums for 3-4 mins. Boom. No more tooth ache, gum recession, tooth loss.

Cancer. With regard to cancer, look to Marc Sircus and Mercola (great website! It's a community! Read the comments.). Cancer is not genetics, its environment. That is why baking soda (pH alkaline) works to kill it (I know, not always).

btw, I am on time out at top. I could not hold back on the Tulsi slanders... LOL!

The medical community and the insurance industry want us to debate health care. But it isn't about that. We need to learn and teach our junior high school kids to look after their own bodies; to take care of their selves with nutrients and fasting. Yes! fasting... That is the age that I wish I was wizened to, "doctor myself" f'n a.!

peace.

doctor yourself. empower yourself.

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6 users have voted.

@p cook

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

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0 users have voted.

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0 users have voted.

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0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

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0 users have voted.

@p cook
If you want a real taste of what I'm about, head on over there and read the three or four diaries with which I offered that place my last aloha, in the autumn of 2015 -- and walked away, incidentally, un-banished.

Mind you, I don't think it will cheer you up any.

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd responded to anything of substance that I discussed. ph? Magnesium? cellular action in the human body? crickets. Just like them, over there. I get it. Most people trust our medical professionals. I did too until they failed me. [Are you going to make fun of that too?] Intellect? I don't see any...

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1 user has voted.

@p cook
interested in attempting to have a rational conversation about the molecular biology of cancer with someone who believes s/he cured a cancer with baking soda.

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4 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

edg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

I'd never heard it before. Is it based on research about buffering the environment around cancer cells to improve the efficacy of traditional cancer treatments? For example:

Effects of omeprazole in improving concurrent chemoradiotherapy efficacy in rectal cancer

Bicarbonate Increases Tumor pH and Inhibits Spontaneous Metastases

Intermittent high dose proton pump inhibitor enhances the antitumor effects of chemotherapy in metastatic breast cancer

Those studies indicate that in some circumstances, ameliorating the acidic environment improves standard treatment regimens. Of course, it's a huge jump to get from that to scarfing down a tablespoonful of Arm & Hammer as a cancer cure.

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9 users have voted.

@edg
they're doing with baking soda, and the problem is, i immediately run into statements of such straightforward quackery that i'm not inclined to pursue the matter much further:

two quick examples:
"As for whether cancer is fundamentally a kind of fungus, the jury is still out."
Uh, no, the jury is not out. Only a completely uneducated person -- someone who understands nothing about cellular biology and/or the disease that we label "cancer" -- could think that cancer is "fundamentally a kind of fungus".

"the acidity of the human body is the main cause of cancer"
This is a phenomenally stupid thing to say. For one thing, outside of your stomach, the normal state of your body is mildly alkaline (pH from 7.35 to 7.45) -- and it stays that way unless something else is really wrong already. drop your blood pH below 7.0 (into the acidic range), and believe me, you'll be a really unhappy customer.

notwithstanding such crankosity, i just now was following up by writing some mildly conciliatory but generally skeptical commentary on some of what i had learned on a couple of web pages and published journal articles. but then, in order to clarify a few points, i did another web search and ended up on a page that did me in. i am now happy and cheerful to denounce this baking soda BS as the bunk that it is. bunk, bunk, bunkity bunk bunk. with a bunk on top. it's right up there with "HIV doesn't cause AIDS," and "spinal misalignment causes cancer" and "the polio vaccine doesn't prevent polio" and all such bunknesses.

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5 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

just open up public Traditional Medicare, and eliminate all co-insurance and deductibles--meaning, make it pay 100%, including ALL RX's, axing Medicare Part D. Also, open to adding additional medical services; including, LTC.

Oh, and we don't need to raise taxes. Expanded and improved 'Traditional Medicare' could easily be paid for out of our current General Tax Revenues--if, as you suggest, we greatly pare down our military budget. Enough with policing the world!

Mollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all others.
~~Cicero

The obstacle is the path.
~~Zen Proverb

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13 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal

many accountants have already explained to the general public
about the cost of war, health care, surveillance & etc.

The public is informed of the cost, not so much of the price.

It feels like a marketing campaign.

Social Security costs too much.

Wars and intelligence expenditures pay for them selves?

BS

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9 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

edg's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

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3 users have voted.

Have you all had you flu shots? Shingles? pneumonia? Huh?

I go from time out over there to ignored as a free thinker over here.

It's OK.

But there is nothing more important than the health of my biologic being. It's magnificent! And it is part of the journey. And modern medicine has proved itself insuficient in my journey and I, (and millions of us) are thriving without it. Open your eyes...

Forget about cancer scientists. They are irrelevant; self imposed. do your homework...

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2 users have voted.
edg's picture

@p cook

That belief is welcome here. You won't get many converts, but c99 is open to differing opinions. That's one thing I like about it.

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10 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

3 had it the face or nose and two in their stomachs. I don't know when they actually got it, but I think it was at the end of their lives. Anyone else?

Sorry that you have lost your friends to it.

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7 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg pesticides for fleas? ring a bell? It's 2019 for chrisakes. chemicals cause cancer!

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1 user has voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@p cook

Ask before making an accusation.

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11 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg I worked for 20 years in hazardous waste side-by-side with toxicologists. I have an inquiring mind. It's not going well here. I'm out.

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2 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@p cook

If you hadn't insulted so many of us. We are definitely open minded here and I have heard about the baking sofa healing cancer before. But if you wanted us to be open to your opinions then you should be open to ours without saying that people here are dumb or the other insults.

This is a Know-Nothing website

Yeah that's helpful.

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4 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg
that regardless of lifespan, animals tend to develop cancer in their later years. This tells us that it's not just about "the odds" -- that humans don't get cancer in old age just because it takes 60 or 70 years before one of our uncountable precancerous cells makes it through the gantlet and goes rogue.

No, there's something else at work, and people are working hard at understanding it. There's a well-known paradox that elephants and whales get relatively few cancers -- especially given that they live long lives (we think some whales may survive for 200+ years), and that, being enormous, they have hundreds or thousands of times more cells in their bodies, presumably giving them hundreds or thousands of times more opportunities for a cancer to develop.

Meanwhile, there's a weird salamander from Mexico city, the axolotl, that does not get cancer, at all, ever (as far as I know). These salamanders also, in normal circumstances, never fully mature -- through their entire lives, they exhibit characteristics normally associated with embryonic, fetal, or newborn animals. In particular, they can regenerate almost any part of their body -- limbs, eyes, internal organs. If you deliberately wound an axolotl's back and add benzene ... well, if you did that to just about anything else, what you'd get would be malignant tumor, but what you get in an axolotl is ... unpredictable. It might grow a new limb there. What it won't do is develop a tumor.

There was a paper out a few years ago that discovered that elephants have multiple copies of the p53 gene. p53 is a really, really remarkable gene -- it's critical to embryonic development, and its levels need to be tightly controlled in your body's cells to prevent things from getting out of wack. Among other things, it inhibits angiogenesis (blood vessel growth), which explains why more than half of all human tumors have mutant p53 -- disabling p53 allows the tumor to grow a blood supply. People born with one of their p53s "broken" have much, much higher rates of cancer.

A relative of mine recently lost an ancient and most beloved feline to a not-very-aggressive, but implacably progressive cancer. Unfortunately, treating a pup's or kitty's cancer is wicked expensive, for many of the same reasons that treating a human's cancer is wicked expensive. If it cannot be treated by fairly straightforward surgery, we are faced, both as individuals and as a society, with a very disquieting ethical choice. A relative of

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12 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd Very familiar with the p53 gene and the paper. The p53 gene triggers cellular apoptosis. Elephants have twenty copies and humans have two.

What is also interesting is that progesterone is the hormone that triggers the p53 gene.

There have been some cases reported where bioidentical progesterone was effective in treating cancer of various types. No studies though. Progesterone is easily purchased over the counter or on the internet. Pretty cheap stuff. Probably explains no studies to some degree.

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4 users have voted.
edg's picture

@snoopydawg

The dog I grew up with developed cancer around 1970 at age 8. My parents had him euthanized. None of my dogs since then have had it. One of my friends in Michigan, the sister of the guy that died today, had a cat that died about 3 months ago from cancer. It was quite old, though, 16 or so.

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4 users have voted.

I am challenging you-all. We are not cancer victims. Cancer grows in a suitable environment. This has been established by many (Marc Sircus establishes this many times over, for one...). Do your homework people; I don't want to talk to morons dependent on the nonsensical medical system we have here in this country6. I will say it again, "Do your f'n homework regarding your health". Otherwise shut up about healthcare. If you are going to talk about cancer research, pink ribbons, mammagrams; then f you. Unbelievable. Think people. If you are still against my message at this point; just go away; you are not a free-thinker.

Take control of your lives! You don't need universal health-care! It would be nice and I am all for it. But f'n a, do you homework. I start my day reading Joseph Mercola and his daily words of wisdom! F'n A!

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0 users have voted.

@p cook
I suggest you tone it down.

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11 users have voted.

@JtC roger that

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0 users have voted.

--More prevention is needed, but even then it's something of a crapshoot. Lots of folks promote vegan diets to prevent cancer. Some say not to eat processed foods. There is some truth in statements like those. But, vegans and natural foodies still get cancer. Maybe at a lower percentage rate (maybe), but it still happens.

--As others have noted, cancer is natural and is often due to things not coming through the food chain. The sun. Genetic heritage. Radiation. Contaminated water (well, that's kind of food--but thinking more along the lines of Flint here). Viral illness. Pure, stupid chance. Cells mutate, and sometimes a body's defenses aren't wise enough or fast enough to get rid of it.

--Having worked at one of the top cancer researchers in the world for a long time, I can definitely say I have never seen anybody say "This will cure such and such a cancer, so let's not bring it to market." Never happens. Researchers would freak out and go elsewhere at such a reaction, news would get out, not to mention a company would be throwing away 20 years of exclusive profits. If you make something that works somewhat on a cancer, and if you make something that cures a cancer, either way you only get 20 years exclusivity. So, it makes no sense to claim that medicines are being withheld.

--Cancer is hard and adaptive. And different cancers have different causes and methods of growth. It's just very hard to combat, and even if you find something effective in one cancer, chances are it won't be effective in others.

--There are some new ways of battling cancer en route that will change (for the better) many types of cancer. For example, cancer vaccines and such. Not to mention, you may notice (if you look into it) that the outlooks of many types of cancer have been *dramatically* improved over the past couple of decades.

Hoping I don't come across as belittling the original poster--they are correct in that more should be done and more resources should be devoted to cancer. But, let's also not discount the amazing progress we have made. Some really top-rate stuff.

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15 users have voted.

@apenultimate
Did you hear about that company in Israel that says they've got a technology that will be able to cure most cancers, and that they're within a year or two of being able to prove it in the clinic? I read about it a few months ago, so I don't remember even the vague details they were willing to make public.

Nobody's sure if they're total frauds, or if they're onto something (but almost certainly overstating), or if they're sincere but wrong, or what ...

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3 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd

Yes, I did see that. It seems a couple times every decade, someone comes out with a "We've discovered the cure for cancer!" and to my knowledge nothing ever comes of it.

Unless you discover a way to keep cells from mutating, there is no way I can conceive of curing *all* cancers. They are waaay too variable.

Still, I'd love to be proven wrong!

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7 users have voted.
edg's picture

@apenultimate

Melanoma rates in the United States doubled from 1982 to 2011 and have continued to increase

Source: Skin Cancer Incidence Rates

There's obviously multiple factors at work. Sales of high SPF sunscreens also doubled during those years, which should have reduced melanoma but didn't.

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6 users have voted.

@edg
are in Australia -- lots of sunshine, and not enough ozone, due to their proximity to the HCFC-induced antarctic ozone hole, as i recall.

as in many other carcinogenic factors, there's no particular doubt about how UV rays induce cancer. the molecular biology is not complicated.

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8 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

proactive malfeasance to the Medicine For Profit complex, but as usual I urge that people take a more balanced view. Yes, pharmaceutical companies are far more interested in developing drugs that provide allopathic respite from chronic symptoms, rather than developing drugs that simply fix the underlying conditions. We understand that this is one of the obstacles to the development of new antibiotics, while we stare straight down the barrel of a pathogenic shotgun that is going to be a nasty blast in the face for the 99% of people who luxuriate in their short memories of just how fucking awful life was before penicillin. That's a pretty simple and predictable negative feature of any market-based approach to solving human problems.

Still, it's a big jump from there, to the active suppression of proven (or promising) cures. Consider the case of Gardasil, the vaccine that protects against the high-risk strains of HPV known to be part of the causal chain of cervical (and is suspected as the probable cause of several other) cancers. And by "known" I mean, researchers have identified exactly how the HPV virus begins the cascade that results in cervical cancer.

So in this case, we have a company selling a (granted, rather expensive) vaccine that depending on its efficacy will prevent somewhere between 70 and 90% of all cervical cancers, and a whole lot of other cancers -- with genital warts thrown in as a freebie. In other words, we have a plain and upfront counterexample to the assertion that the Medicine For Profit Complex simply will not allow the marketing of anything that will interfere with their very profitable cancer therapy market.

And what is the response from the community whose internal bias is a deep suspicion of the pharmaceutical industry? Is it trumpeted as a wonderful example of what the pharm corps should be doing? No, the response is an endless stream of accusations of fraud, or worse, epistemologically vacant accusations of deadly or debilitating side effects.

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6 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

janis b's picture

@UntimelyRippd

will make her/his choice. There’s no one way, and no one theory or scientific proof that fits all. Each individual will choose their own way, decided by knowledge, gut feeling, financial possibility, even religious belief. And I believe that's what makes the world go round.

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7 users have voted.

But, nothing appears to kick more cancer tush than a plant-based diet.

We think it’s because of animal proteins—meat, egg white, and dairy proteins increase the level of IGF-1 in our bodies. Insulin-like growth factor 1, a cancer-promoting growth hormone involved in the acquisition and progression of malignant tumors.

Here’s the experiment that really nailed IGF-1 as the villain. The same as last time; go on a plant-based diet. Cancer cell growth drops; cancer cell death shoots up. But then, here’s the kicker. What if you add back to the cancer just the amount of IGF-1 banished from your body because you started eating healthier? It effectively erases the “diet and exercise” effect. It’s like you never started eating healthy at all.

So, the reason one of the largest prospective studies on diet and cancer found the incidence of all cancers combined was lower among those eating more plant-based may be because they’re eating less animal protein, less meat, egg white, and dairy protein—so, end up with less IGF-1, which means less cancer growth.

How much less cancer? Middle-aged men and women with high protein intakes had a 75% increase in overall mortality, and a four-fold increase in the risk of dying specifically from cancer. But, not all proteins—specifically animal protein; which makes sense, given the higher IGF-1 levels.

NutritionFacts: How Not to Die from Cancer.
To see the full transcript or links to cited sources go to the link above, then scroll below the video and click on View Transcript or Sources Cited.

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4 users have voted.
edg's picture

@i dunno

Vegans have on average a lower BMI than meat eaters. Has that been controlled for in the studies?

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4 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

p cook is a little shrill in her comments but s/he is correct that you can minimize your risk with diet. Cancer can only grow in the presence of sugar. (you can make sugar from proteins). Getting off carbs is a 1st step if you are diagnosed.
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/December/Starving-Cancer...
https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/ketogenic-diet-weakens-cancer-cells/

TTAC-Graphic-Ketagenic-No-Sugar.jpg

“To say that we’re genetically programmed to become obese or to get cancer is absurd. It doesn’t fit the facts. It’s a hormonal metabolic disease.” – Dr. Jason Fung
http://www.fastingtalk.com/14-dr-jason-fung-on-the-latest-developments-w... Sorry no transcript just a podcast...

But here's Fung in a transcript...
https://www.dietdoctor.com/diet-doctor-podcast-23-dr-jason-fung

if you have a genetic mutation, there’s nothing you can do about it, you have it, like I’m not going to change it, if you have it, you have it and I can’t do anything about it. But I can change the environment in which that cancer cell lies because we know it’s vitally important. You take a Japanese woman in Japan and you move her to Hawaii and San Francisco, the rate of breast cancer like triples, even though the genetics are exactly the same.

So what’s the difference? The difference is clearly the diet and the environment in which that breast cancer cell is living, so again what is going to stimulate breast cancer cells to grow– And in the lab the answer is very clear, insulin is what breast cancer cells need. You can’t barely grow breast cancer cells in a dish without insulin. If you take away the insulin, they all like die. And if you give them lots of insulin, they grow, because the nutrient sensing pathways are the same as the growth pathway.

So you take this breast cancer cell, and remember the obesity didn’t cause the cancer, but after that cancer cell is there, you’re going to stimulate it to grow if you have a lot of insulin, so type 2 diabetes, a disease of hyperinsulinemia, higher risk of cancer, obesity, disease of hyperinsulinemia, higher risk of cancer, and then you say what about the other ones?

In the two decades from 1962 to 1982, the number of Americans who died of cancer increased by 56%. Adjusting for the increased population, this still represented a 25% increase in the rate of death from cancer, at a time when virtually every other disease showed decreasing mortality.

https://medium.com/@drjasonfung/cancer-inc-4cece0eb4e07

EDIT to add:
Why are we eating the wrong foods?
Chris Hedges talks to Marion Nestle, New York University professor of nutrition, on how food companies distort the science and research into what we eat. In her book ‘Unsavory Truth: How Food Companies Skew The Science Of What We Eat,’ Nestle explains that the food industry follows the formula pioneered by the tobacco industry – cast doubt on the science, fund research to provide desired results, offer gifts and consulting arrangements to buy silence or loyalty, use front groups, promote self-regulation and personal responsibility, and use the courts to challenge critics and dismantle regulations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3p3PpNRT8 (27 min)

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6 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout

I hope this doctor goes into a lot more detail in the podcast because the part you are quoting about breast cancer is wrong unless he's only talking about a particular subset of breast cancer which I don't know anything about. But I do know that there are several different kinds and types of breast cancer, and they don't all eat the same thing, so this quote on its own makes him sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about.

My breast cancer diagnosis is still less than a year old and it is the most common kind and type for women to get. I've had access to lots of very good tests, including genetic tests and multiple tests done directly on the tumor they removed. The breast cancer I had fed almost exclusively on female hormones, namely estrogen and progesterone. My surgeon was able to remove all the cancer during surgery so I am in treatment now to prevent recurrence, and the best treatment for me is to avoid all synthetic hormones and take hormone suppression medication.

The only evidence of beneficial dietary changes regarding this kind of breast cancer is a lower fat diet -- and even that might shake out at the end of the day to be related more to lower BMI than to the fat in the diet, we're still waiting for more data on it. But meanwhile there's been no evidence from any of the long term dietary studies to suggest that vegetarianism or eliminating sugar or carbs is any way beneficial to preventing this type of breast cancer.

Also, just like cancers are different and there are different kinds, bodies are different and don't all respond the same way to the same foods. For example, many people get an inflammatory response to dairy-based foods, and it works well for them to replace those with soy-based foods. But I go the other way, having an inflammatory response to soy-based foods and tolerating dairy just fine. Since soy can mimic estrogen in the body, after my particular cancer diagnosis, I'm even more careful about avoiding it. And since the hormone suppression medication I take can thin my bones as a side effect, I have upped my intake of dairy (switching some to lowfat and nofat and very careful to avoid any from hormone-treated cows) to be sure I'm getting enough dietary calcium. This wouldn't be good for a lot of other people, but it's good for me, so it's really important not to overgeneralize.

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2 users have voted.

of two back-to-back comments that both appear to be eminently reasonable and based on some actual understanding of cell biology at the molecular level ... and that very firmly assert exactly opposing claims about how to avoid cancer by changing your diet.

Trying to make sense of cancer is a hell of a cognitive challenge, that's for sure.

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6 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@UntimelyRippd

I hope somebody else here enjoys the maddening irony of two back-to-back comments that both appear to be eminently reasonable and based on some actual understanding of cell biology at the molecular level ... and that very firmly assert exactly opposing claims about how to avoid cancer by changing your diet.

Trying to make sense of cancer is a hell of a cognitive challenge, that's for sure.

Indeed.

It just goes to show how genuinely little understanding we have about cancer, and how much more work needs to be done. edg is right: this really is one area where our money would be better spent than on Forever War.

And that's really a low bar, as money spent on Forever War is a pure waste. Anything else, including dropping tens of thousands of $100 bills from helicopters in the immediate vicinity of Sean McCullough's house in Colorado Springs, Colorado, would return better value for our country.

Wink

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5 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg