#WhichMarkos


Hillary Clinton

"doesn't deserve fairness on this site" because she "fails the test of the guiding principles of this site"

She may be the establishment's choice, but real power in the party has shifted.

And therein lie Hillary Clinton's biggest problems. She epitomizes the "insider" label...SNIP…She's part of the Clinton machine that decimated the national Democratic Party….SNIP…. her advisers have stripped what personality she has, hiding it from the public…..SNIP…..what remains is a heartless, passionless machine, surrounded by the very people who ground down the activist base in the 1990s and have continued to hold the party's grassroots in utter contempt.

Markos Moulitsas, 2008

Granted, I’ve edited for content, and added emphasis/italics, to make my point, but that’s what Markos wrote back in ‘08. The only thing that has changed is the election year, and, apparently, his opinion on folks ability to openly and vociferously criticize a candidate in their own party.

This is stuff Markos wrote, both at DailyKos, and at WaPo, in May 2008, in the later half of the Democratic primary. But now, in March 2016, while it's still early days, Kossacks have to shush?
Frankly, I don’t see how calling her a ‘heartless passionless machine’ and essentially blaming her for decimating the Democratic Party would be intended to be ‘constructive’ or to ‘make her a better candidate’. ymmv

Yes, I know, it’s his blog. And, evolving.

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Pricknick's picture

Is that Markos has become wealthy and wants to be in the elite party. There's also the problem that he'd have to pay more taxes when Bernie becomes president.
Money corrupts and those it does quickly become hypocrites.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

cybrestrike's picture

Cenk has kept it real from the jump and left MSNBC because the powers that be asked him to sell out. Markos wants to be a Villager.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Markos wants to be a Villager.

But what will be his Number?
And just who is Number One?
Are all the rest of us Number 6?

(Important: if you are unfamiliar with the British mini-series The Prisoner, this will make no sense to you at all!)

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

PastorAgnostic's picture

Ah, the Prisoner. One of the finest shows I watched in my yute.
That, and Star Trek. Hogans heroes. Outer limits. Creature Features. Hmm there seems to be a common theme here.

That explains his second "explanatory" post. Can't collapse your own site before you ink the deal, eh? The numbers must be telling him something.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I don't fucking care. Give me a republic where the people actually have a say, on a planet that has a better than even chance of being habitable for humans 100 years from now, with an economy that doesn't grind everyone who isn't rich to dust.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

gulfgal98's picture

Your comment summarizes my own thoughts. I would much rather pay more in taxes for a livable and healthy society and planet. IMHO, that is a very small price.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

“I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilization.”

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detroitmechworks's picture

Oliver Wendell Jones, the little Hacker from Bloom County.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Wendell_Jones

This is what happens when you grow up with GOOD political cartoons.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

kharma's picture

the Me vs We. Some of us have empathy some of us don't. Sadly, those of us with empathy are sometimes (maybe often) taken advantage of by those that don't have a lick of it. Wealthy people are disproportionately without empathy since it is much easier to accumulate when it's all about you. Notice the car most likely to let you in in traffic? It's the old beat up chevy not the lexus.
It's the nature of the snake to bite.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

then rebuilt them with mithril and gold and triple-locked them to keep out us riff-raff.

(Whatever happened to Jerome Armstrong after their falling-out?)

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sensetolisten's picture

Frankly, I don’t see how calling her a ‘heartless passionless machine’ and essentially blaming her for decimating the Democratic Party would be intended to be ‘constructive’ or to ‘make her a better candidate’.

ymmv

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“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
detroitmechworks's picture

of the content over there today...

I can do without the fawning, Kow-towing, and ass-kissing that is emanating from his sycophants.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

For someone who is supposed to be Internet savvy, he sure has forgotten that the Web is one YUUUUGE "Wayback" machine.

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gulfgal98's picture

I love your observations. Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

detroitmechworks's picture

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPX-mW4l1rU]

Can't resist. Still love ya Bernie, but we all have to be able to laugh a little.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

SnappleBC's picture

Hillary Clinton always gets my best efforts at fairness from me. That's because "fairness" isn't something someone else deserves from me. It's something I expect of myself. I like to think of myself as a man of integrity so that guy in the mirror gets really testy when I'm not being fair.

Integrity, I've come to think, along with other words like honor, as at the root of our problems. And it isn't Hillary or Bernie or Trump's integrity that is the issue. It's the integrity and honor of us as a society. We allow the politicians to behave as they do. We vote them into office. We get the government we deserve.

Markos' statement is the poster child for that.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Muddy Boots's picture

We each carry responsibility for the whole.

I don't think Kos realizes that he has changed bubbles. And there is no way he would hear me - who mostly lurks, anyway. As owner the squabbles on his site really upset him, and he has tried to create a moderation system that runs on autopilot as much as possible. It always cracks during a primary and this time he steps in and that bubble shift just leaps off the page. I am sure someone will explain it to him. I joined there in 2008 but I would not join now. Nothing lasts forever. Not Daily Kos and not the Democratic Party and not the Republican party.

Meanwhile the good fight continues.

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"If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back" - Regina Brett

k9disc's picture

of the comment list.
Seriously... kind of out of touch. Like how the comments and comment system sucked on dk5 rollout.
"Who needs comments?"

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

from Markos Moulitsas the person. There are still some good folks over there -- MB, Egberto, the regulars in the daily BNR, the corners where people can take a break from Primary Pie like the pootie/woozle/birdie diaries (RIP Tricia) or Top Comments or Saturday Gardening. I do wish it had a less founder-centric name; it would make it easier to see the difference between the two.

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It is bad enough I view. I do not want to contribute clicks or worse yet, content in the form of a tip rec., comment, or story. I so want to rec and retweet BNR, but it is also promoting dailykos. As you can tell, I feel no desire to support someone who doesn't support me.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Borkrom's picture

I looked up Markos' worth, and he is wealthy- multi millionaire. No wonder he is wants to end all the discussions- it will dry up his revenue stream. Do not get me wrong we need money to live, but when you sell yourself for it then that is not a good thing. He might want to go into another line of work (prostitute), at least he can understand and feel better about his job.

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Lisa Lockwood's picture

when Vox goes public and he can cash out. Looked up Vox on teh google thingy, and wowsers. Nice little nest egg.

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"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~

Borkrom's picture

Good insight, did not realize it but he will be super wealthy. Good for him but he forgot how he got there and who helped him achieve it.

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that is just brutally damning stuff.

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Lisa Lockwood's picture

because it's so illustrative of how different he's behaving, now.
And shit for brains me, I 'saved' this as a draft, not meaning to post until I had tweaked it some, added a bit more content.... sigh.
New house, don't know how the light switches all work yet Wink
Thanks for reading and commenting. I think I'll post it over at GOS on the 15th. Might as well go out with a bang.

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"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~

Cachola's picture

I will go back for this one. Smile

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

After you have saved you work as a draft, you can find it on your user page, My Account/Drafts, there you can edit, publish and delete it.

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Lisa Lockwood's picture

I thoughtthat's what I did, saved as a draft. Anyways, it's all good. I was never any good at keeping secrets or surprises Wink
Must have reaaaaally wanted to publish, subconsciously? lol

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"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~

Great post!!!

Fuck Markos!

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riverlover's picture

on the 15th just to make a ripple in the Hillary club. How many swan songs will there be? Or would that require a swan dive?

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I guess you're supposed to use "Save and Continue". My tipoff was seeing some thumbs up and then the blood drained from my face as I realized my draft was already up. Kind of a "different" experience, right?

Imagine that happening while writing your GCW at DK - "this place is a hellhole, snakepit, echo chamber, Stepford Wife factory farce and I simply won't read or respond to a bunch of Party bots mindless cheerleadersflagging drones commenters whose only directive is to produce site approved propaganda drivel content designed to advance the coronation,annointment, appointment election of our queen candidate.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Lisa Lockwood's picture

"Unpublish" options, so there is some ability to retrieve an 'oops', but by the time I came back to my computer after 'saving' this thing already had 20+ comments, so it was pretty much moot.

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"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~

gulfgal98's picture

is your friend. It prevents you from accidentally deleting while editing too. I usually Save and Continue every few minutes to be sure.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

just a suggestion. If you DO post about his comments in 2008.... perhaps post it as a "Who said this" question with a poll... etc.

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Lisa Lockwood's picture

but I like your idea Wink
Maybe title should be #SameHillary, #WhichMarkos ?
;->

I'm just a little bit of a rabble rouser, I don't like being told to sit down and shut up, this nation, my kids, and our responsibilty as human beings is too damn important to just let politics be a 'game' or spectator sport, as some like to treat it. The fuckin' planet and our democracy is at stake....and being able to 'stick it' to someone so perfectly with their own words is pretty rare, and pretty sweet.

I'll work on my inner self and peace and kumbaya later Wink
(I'll probably have a lot more time, after I post this at GOS...lol)

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"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~

You know, like all those millenials dreaming of a better world who don't know how politics really works.

Perfect payback would be for his kids to grow up as radical hippies or whatever the 2020s equivalent.

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pfiore8's picture

i am gob smacked by so called Democrats who love Obama, despite his turning the page on BushCo, and going after whistleblowers, journalists, activists, and supporting TPP. He has endorsed and expanded BushCo's wars both outside and inside our borders.

My conclusion is this: whether it is fear or power or denial that drives the decision-making of people endorsing Hillary and celebrating Obama's 8 years, it doesn't matter. While I believe we must act local to save the world, we have to do it with a global view: how our decisions affect the humans and all other creatures on the planet. That's what we have in our power to do. And, as long as we can fend off the vampires from completely ruling the internet, we use social media.

I've said it from the beginning, when people starting complaining that Bernie wasn't getting mainstream media coverage: GOOD. in fact GREAT news. the system is vulnerable. we don't need the mainstream media. and hey! people are receptive to better ideas that involve justice and fairness.

one last thing: Daily Kos does not "belong" to Markos. If he were the last man standing there, who'd go? It exists because we go/went there and gave our energy and content. he also asks for contributions and has lifetime members (some of whom have been among the banned)... so ownership is one thing. but it isn't exactly true in virtual space.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

of Obama while being disappointed that he didn't go farther -- my mom-in-law falls in that same category. And definitely not wanting 4 more years of "stay the course".

When your ship is heading for an iceberg, changing courses doesn't mean a repudiation of the previous captain -- it's just responding to new information about changing conditions. Just because Bernie Sanders wants to do things different than Obama doesn't mean that he "hates Obama".

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fuckthemover.png
1. Obama chose not to raise the minimum wage as president even though he had the votes for it
2 & 3. was willing to cut Medicare and Social Security
4 & 5 chose not to prosecute Wall Street crimes or pursue ethics reforms in government
6 & 7 he dropped the public option and the aid he promised homeowners victimized by mortgage lenders

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/09/it_should_be_over_for_hillary_party_elit...

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kharma's picture

Same way David Brock was once their biggest foe, he's now working for them. The Clinton machine is pretty powerful when you are running in those circles it has influence.

Hillary's Hit List

As one of the last orders of business for a losing campaign, they recorded in a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet the names and deeds of members of Congress. They carefully noted who had endorsed Hillary, who backed Barack Obama, and who stayed on the sidelines—standard operating procedure for any high-end political organization. But the data went into much more nuanced detail.
“We wanted to have a record of who endorsed us and who didn’t,” said a member of Hillary’s campaign team, “and of those who endorsed us, who went the extra mile and who was just kind of there. And of those who didn’t endorse us, those who understandably didn’t endorse us because they are [Congressional Black Caucus] members or Illinois members. And then, of course, those who endorsed him but really should have been with her … that burned her.”

On one early draft of the hit list, each Democratic member of Congress was assigned a numerical grade from one to seven, with the most helpful to Hillary earning ones and the most treacherous drawing sevens.

Will she do anything to keep Sanders out including winning by Superdelagates?

It reached the point where Hillary—in a stale, sterile conference room at the DNC headquarters—asked uncommitted “superdelegates” to give her their word, privately, that they would back her if it came to a vote at the convention, even if they weren’t willing to take the political risk of coming out for her publicly ahead of time.

Unlike the regular delegates who were elected in state party primaries and caucuses, the superdelegates, a group of lawmakers, governors, and other Democratic officials, could support whichever candidate they wanted at the convention. As a last resort, Hillary pleaded with them to simply refrain from adding their names to Obama’s column. Bill would make that pitch, too, in phone calls and when he crossed paths with lawmakers. Please, just don’t endorse Obama, he cajoled.

Not saying Kos is bought but the Clinton machine is built like a mafia enterprise and resistance is unpleasant.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Lisa Lockwood's picture

And I understand that the Clintons are a powerful force, and not one you buck lightly, but I still don't see (unless they're hiring hit men to go after your family or something) why there is the fear and loathing to cross them. Yeah, they have the ability to be king-makers, to some extent, but as we've seen with Bernie, a well funded, or self funded campaign isn't dependent on the Clinton's good will. Is every other politician with a D after their name in some way beholden to them for funding? Maybe. They just don't seem like the big bogey men worthy of shaking terror that they are portrayed as, at least in terms of wielding some mystical power.
Perhaps it's just that I don't understand how it really works inside the beltway, and therefor I can't understand their ability to sway.

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"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~

That the Cinton Emporers have no clothes once challenged. Still, people like Nina Turner and Tulsi Gabard deserve mad props for courage!

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debate Hillary on domestic policy.

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to be part of the "political elite" -- a Sanders Presidency would make that designation obsolete. Fancy parties with the well-heeled would be obsolete for the most part. I think that's what scares a lot of politicians -- they're not sure how they'd be able to operate in a realm where money isn't the driving factor. They might actually have to show up and do their jobs.

There might be some who would be able to regain some of their youthful idealism when they realize they no longer have to be beholden to the lobbyist with the biggest check -- which is why I'm willing to give most of the current Dems in the House and Senate a few years (till their next election) to prove themselves if Sanders is elected; if they're constantly acting as roadblocks to progress, out they go.

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Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

By that I mean some big donor or PAC who has a set agenda and slate of players. They probably don't like a player on "their" team not supporting another player. Big money is calling the shots. The American public has to make their collective funding power as large or larger than the PACS. Bernie has been a real pioneer in this. The place where citizen power can't compete with the crony club is in offering sinecure lobbying positions in various industries which seems to be the golden parachute for de-activated politicians.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

JayRaye's picture

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

gulfgal98's picture

This is a democratic (little d) blog owned by its users. Smile

This is also why I am here.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Borkrom's picture

If I want to be bossed around then I will just ask a manager in my workplace to order me around without the ability to provide input or be listen to.

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