When Leaders Reach the Right Conclusions For the Wrong Reasons

I have noticed recently that a fundamental economic principle, ROI (Return on Investment) is fast becoming the underpinning of our national political and legislative debate. Simply put: Anything that provides a good return on investment is a thing worth doing, anything that doesn't provide a good return is not.

That leads us to our first question - Good return for who?

In our post Citizen's United world the answer is obvious - "who" is the large corporate interests that fund the political campaigns and underwrite (and sometimes literally write) the legislation that follows. We are back to the days of "What's good for GM is good for America."

As it turns out, what is good for manufacturers does not turn out to be good for America, or at least the labor class in America. It may have been good for manufacturers to offshore and send production to China and Mexico, but it ultimately was not a good thing for the workers.

Which leads to a second question - "Is there any way to tie the advancement of individual human and/or societal interest to this advancement of moneyed interests?"

There is a way that these competing interests can be brought into alignment, or so we are told by our elected class. The way that they appeal to both the Haves and the Have Nots is to make a logical appeal based on the rock solid fiscal principal of ROI - do something because it makes financial sense.

I first noticed ROI being used as the bridge between business and the Rest of Us when I listened/read Hillary Clinton's speech Building the Growth and Fairness Economy at the New School last July. This speech was considered important because it was the unveiling of the guiding doctrines HRC would use in forging a new economic order during her Presidency. The speech offered a great view of the ROI principle at work.

Here is Hillary discussing WHY companies should pay their workers decent wages and train them and retain them:

I’m not talking about charity – I’m talking about clear-eyed capitalism. Many companies have prospered by improving wages and training their workers that then yield higher productivity, better service, and larger profits. “Now it’s easy to try to cut costs by holding down or decreasing pay and other investments to inflate quarterly stock prices, but I would argue that’s bad for business in the long run. “And, it’s really bad for our country. “Workers are assets. Investing in them pays off. Higher wages pay off. And training pays off.

I find this argument to be pragmatic in the extreme as it offered ONLY a businessperson's view as to why such actions were a good ROI for a company but she completely abandoned the argument that I personally find even more compelling, the moral imperative to pay workers fairly and to train and retain them because it is the right thing .

IMO that's important because there are many times when both companies and people are faced with quandaries that will not be answered by applying the "ROI" metric and where in fact the ROI metric will lead to the wrong and even morally reprehensible answer. We find example of the ROI metric failing us as a society when a company chooses to pollute (yes, some of them make the conscious choice to do so if they consider the cost of compliance too high) or when a company decides whether a patient gets lifesaving treatment based on how it impacts their bottom line.

Why were people directed to higher costs sub-prime mortgages when they qualified for better ? Because the businesses involved were using the ROI metric and not the old-fashioned metric of basic morality, decency and ethics. So I personally don't advocate the ROI metric as being the one that should rule our policy decisions as a county.

Going down this same line of reasoning of placing financial returns on functions of government has led us to the madness where some think policing needs to be a profit-making center for a municipality such as happened in Ferguson. Policing, the courts, the justice system,and prisons were never envisioned as money making enterprises, at least not until this pervasive and corruptive worldview took hold that no entity had intrinsic value in its service to society and that everything must either pay for itself or even turn a profit. The worldview that the overriding concern of the globe and the nation is the health and strength of corporations is one apparently shared by Hillary - business growth trumps everything else and all the other good things in the world will be a trailing positive effect.

The premise of ROI is subtle in it's influences on policies that you may not be quick to relate to it. Today I happened to read this article in Salon.

In this article we see that Hillary Clinton rejects the practice of torture because it is ineffective In other words, not a good ROI on returning to the Middle Ages, defying Geneva Conventions and subverting all concepts of humanity and decency. Author Dan Denvir is eloquent about the moral failings of Hillary's argument:

It’s true, torture is ineffective. But it’s horrible for Clinton to make that the heart of her criticism. Torture is a monstrously cruel violation of human rights that degrades the rule of law and sets new rock-bottom standards for the treatment of detainees worldwide—something that ISIS, placing its victims in Guantánamo orange jumpsuits, has eagerly mocked. While Clinton did note that “terrorists are trying to undermine the democratic values that are at the root of our way of life,” that’s pretty milquetoast given that she as recently as 2006 said that torture might be acceptable in “ticking time bomb” cases.

What’s more, Clinton making her argument against torture an essentially pragmatic and technocratic one cedes the moral ground to Trump. And it’s not just on torture. Referencing Trump’s call for stopping Muslim travel to the U.S., she responded that it’s “unrealistic to say we’re going to completely shut down our borders to everyone…That would stop commerce, for example, and that’s not in anybody’s interest.”

Stopping Muslim travel is not bad for reasons of bigotry or xenophobia or intolerance, it is wrong because it is a hindrance to commerce! Bad ROI, in other words.

In our new world of moral equivalency guided by capitalist imperatives I wonder if Moses himself wouldn't have been co-opted by the golden calf industry to keep them in the loop as the intermediaries of religious symbolism and to phase out golden calves over a period of years while they diversified.

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A horrifying fun house ride.

LET ME OUT!

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I appreciate it.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Tommymac's picture

I think that you are saying some of the things that Paul Mason extrapolates about in his book

PostCapitalism: A Guide to our Future

I have not read the whole thing yet - just skimmed it but so far it seems a fascinating and very workable philosophical blueprint for the coming years. The fact that he incorporates environmental concerns as part of the system attracts me greatly.

IMO that's important because there are many times when both companies and people are faced with quandaries that will not be answered by applying the "ROI" metric and where in fact the ROI metric will lead to the wrong and even morally reprehensible answer. We find example of the ROI metric failing us as a society when a company chooses to pollute (yes, some of them make the conscious choice to do so if they consider the cost of compliance too high) or when a company decides whether a patient gets lifesaving treatment based on how it impacts their bottom line. - See more at: http://caucus99percent.com/content/when-leaders-reach-right-conclusions-...

But regardless more food for thought.

Great essay Phoebe.

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FEEL THE BERN: "But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine
"Here I Stand, I can do no other." - Attributed to Martin Luther, 1521

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm getting way behind on topical reading.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

detroitmechworks's picture

Had no advertising budget, no PAC and nothing to run on other than his reputation.
Hillary and the Calf Party would have eaten him alive.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I48hr8HhDv0]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

My personal all-time favorite is The Producers.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Torture is not an intelligence interrogation technique. This means that interrogators don't use it to find out or confirm information. That's what is meant by the phrase "torture doesn't work." However, torture is very effective in extracting false confessions or simply as a form of sadistic punishment.

Take the case of Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi. In 2002, the Bush administration had this guy tortured until he confessed that Iraq provided training to al-Qaeda in the area of chemical and biological weapons. In Cincinnati in October 2002, President Bush informed the public: "Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases." This claim was repeated several times in the run-up to the illegal invasion of Iraq, including in then-Secretary of State Colin Powell's speech to the U.N Security Council on February 5, 2003, which concluded with a long recitation of the information provided by al-Libi.

Of course this claim, like all the claims of close cooperation between Iraq and al-Qaeda, was false. The Bush administration wanted to associate Iraq somehow with the 9/11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington D.C., no matter how tenuous the alleged connection. Al-Libi recanted his false confession in January 2004, then was transferred to a Libyan prison in 2006. In 2009, he allegedly committed suicide by hanging.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

MarilynW's picture

for manufacturing fake evidence. So many levels of evil practiced by the Bush admin.

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To thine own self be true.

Shahryar's picture

in the case cited the Bush administration could blame Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, saying he lied to them!

(much like Hillary lovers claim Bush lied to Hillary)

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RantingRooster's picture

it what has gotten us to the point we are at today, no? I mean, just look at Flint, and the 2000 other water systems in this country ALREADY contaminated with lead and other toxic contaminates, because it "saved" money and supposedly increase the ROI.

But, to me, in reality, it's a simple, short sighted endeavor, Mr. Foot, meet Mr. 45, BOOM!

Tens of thousands of people have been poisoned and some people have died in Flint as a result of this ROI way thinking. There should be torches and pitch forks as a result imho. (snark/hyperbole/rage)

The ROI we have reaped from electing "business people" to run our government has not been very good.

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

going very badly and leading to horrific outcomes.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

thrownstone's picture

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

GreyWolf's picture

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Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

But I can say as the former owner of two businesses that the hardest part of running any business is running interference between all the diverse personalities. You would have to have an incredibly specific agreement as to expectations of contribution of labor and distribution of rewards/profits. You have ants and grasshoppers in every work situation.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

We take it in turns to act as executive officer of the week, but all the decisions of that officer must be ratified at a biweekly meeting, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but a two thirds majority in the case of ...

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

detroitmechworks's picture

Look, strange Superdelegates, lounging around in country clubs, distributing supervotes is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical pantomime convention!

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

GreyWolf's picture

There are differences in all those systems of governance, but all influence each other.

So, looking at workers, or members, as an asset, might work better in Wal-Mart than a family. In Worker-coops workers are the business, not assets of the business. Governance of a government is quite different than governance of a business. Co-ops are democratic families ...

Bernie Sanders has been a long-time supporter of worker co-ops, and Vermont has many.
Worker co-ops are basically better for humans and the planet and the economy. The workers make more, they don't want to damage their own community or the communities' environment, and they are more profitable because they have higher productivity (arguably because the workers get a share of the profits).

Bernie sees all humans as part of his own eco-system, the eco-system of humans.
Hillary sees only owners and assets. (Chelsea is being auctioned off for $50 million, but will lose massive value as soon as you drive off the sales lot.)

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Bisbonian's picture

They are moving the Democratic Convention to Sea World.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

RantingRooster's picture

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

Ken in MN's picture

...have forgotten one, fundamental truth: The economy was created to serve humans, not the other way around. I can understand "knowing your audience" and framing a message in a way that your audience can relate to. I get that. But she wasn't necessarily speaking to voters as she was speaking to campaign funders. (And yes, I get that funders are also voters in the strictest sense; however, they represent a tiny fraction of the votes required to get elected.) Finally, technocratic messaging rarely (if ever) works with the vast majority voters. Democratic Party insiders have made a cottage industry out of mocking Republican'ts for saying crazy, stupid shit. And yet those sayers of crazy stupid shit always seem to kick Democratic Party ass come election time. Why? Because that crazy, stupid shit connects on an emotional level. Why can't Democrats make emotional arguments? Instead of droning on about ROI and economic benefit, why not simply say, "People who outsource American jobs to Communist China are traitors who don't deserve the benefits of being American!"? You can follow up with how we used to make stuff in American, American workers were paid living wages, and America still created plenty of rich people AND raised enough taxes to build the Interstate Highway System and send a man to the friggin' moon. But all of that assumes that Democratic politicians want to get elected to represent our interests, versus Wall Street's interest, so maybe I just answered my own question...

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I want my two dollars!

shaharazade's picture

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kharma's picture

I get that funders are also voters in the strictest sense

they are the holders of the golden ticket.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

NWIA's picture

A million years ago, I received a BA in econ, when it was the hip happening thing to do during the reign of Ronnie. It has had a horrible ROI, as I've used my entire career to work in nonprofits. But to your excellent points, ROI is just one important part of the entire rationalism of economic thinking circa 1980s. It totally makes sense in a free market economy.

Of course, free market economies only exist and work in textbooks. Even as an teenager taking econ 101, I wondered just who these workers were who would up and leave one job for another, virtually regardless of any other factors, for a bump in pay? Do they not have families and friends? Can they not be attracted to a certain climate, lifestyle, or housing market? And how do people who live in poverty actually move; shouldnt Flint litetslly be a ghost town? And if workers do move freely in theory, why do we demonize the only ones who demonstrate an absolute commitment to the theory--immigrants.

Your essay brings up beautifully the horrific limitations of Ms. Pragmatic. She has zero empathy, compassion, or any other feeling that has as its ROI a wondrous sense of interconnectedness that for most of us makes life worth living. What baffles me is that so many of my older, ostensibly liberal friends cannot grasp just how robotic her valuation of happiness, beauty, and love is. It's as if they must check on their retirement funds first, and anything else is trivial. That's pragmatic, but the shallowness of these me firsters depresses the shit out of me.

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Ken in MN's picture

...in the framework of a society where absolutely everything has been securitized. Even the death of people you don't even know...

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I want my two dollars!

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

if there's a buck to be made.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

gulfgal98's picture

It is a must read and discuss type of essay because what you are really questioning is our values here in the United States. I think this is something every American should be questioning.

This essay hit home on so many levels for me because I have lived through these changes in how we look at things in this country. I saw this shift of values in my local government back in the 1990's. At one point, there was discussion in our department from some of the higher ups that we should strive for 100% cost recovery. I worked in a joint city/county planning agency and a good portion of our every day work was meeting the public and answering questions. How do you put a ROI on helping the very people who are already funding your agency? I once had a supervisor who downgraded my annual review (it was his first of me) because I worked too long at the same department and I knew too much.

If we look at our education system, we see a similar technocratic focus in de-funding of the arts, not teaching critical thinking, over testing and teaching to the test, and emphasizing those studies that lead to technological work. I contend that the liberal arts are the most important parts of our education system. The arts are what humanize us as a people. They bridge the kind of gaps between people that technology cannot. When once a liberal arts degree was considered very valuable, it is now frowned upon as a waste of time and money.

There is just so much more but the ravenous creature that capitalism is has changed our society in ways that have de-humanized us all. And in the end, ROI is just capitalism eating us and our planet alive.

Thank you for this incredible and very important essay Phoebe.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

In short order a lot of Bill Clinton's welfare reform chickens are going to come home to roost and millions will loose their food aid. As this Vice article points out a MILLION Americans between the ages of 18-49 are going to lose their food stamps this year. Read the article if you want to throw up.

We are a wealthy nation. Period. We can afford to not have our citizens dying of starvation or malnutrition.

Questions of simple right vs. wrong, good vs evil, being pushed aside to further the cause of unnecessary Austerity. So, I personally would like to see morality re-injected into the discussion. We are a rich country, we don't need to take food from the mouths of the poor. We might be literally sending people to their deaths - you need food to survive. It isn't fiscal responsibility, it is EVIL.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Pariah Dog's picture

You're talking about the "three months in three years" limit unless you "work or train?"

John Kasich was a cosponser on that little gem in 1996!

One of the ways he made his bones in the Thug party.

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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

shaharazade's picture

I have to get out of here right now and get to work. It's really hard to get off caucus99 as there are so many good writers essays and such great comments. I will be back later to reread and read the comments.

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TOP. You are so right. Caucus99percent.com is magnificent. Everything that screaming bloodthirsty lying neoconservative bullshitter king markos the bafoon from the depths of hell wishes Daily Kos could be.

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stevej's picture

ROI thinking really is insidious. Whenever our family gets together nowadays things proceed more like a business meeting than a gathering of friends. We all run our own businesses (a legacy of the awful gig economy) and spend our time discussing stuff like targeting, marketing, and of course ROI's - not even the stuff of our actual businesses which are photography, writing, publishing and design.

It is all part of the MBAization of the US where every activity has to have a dollar value attached and it absolutely sucks.

Again, thanks for the excellent writing - it put into words something that has been rattling around my skull for a while now.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Instead they substitute ROI for an industry, private company or other unrelated object. As a Nation, I don't give a damn about GM as a single company. I care only about how it helps or hinders the internal Domestic economics as a whole. They always limit ROI by economic assumptions of cost/benefit ratios which tend to be too narrow and constrained and typically have nothing to do with looking at the Nation as a whole.

Also, the uses of ROI and cost/benefit analysis tend to be short term and are driven by political interests which are never objective. They have a goal and bring equations to justify the conclusion.

Economic equations can be useful but I'd rather use a concept like Bhutans happiness quotient for the nation to help determine policy.

I very much enjoyed your article. Great food for thought.

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J.M.F.

presumes the existence of a god and an afterlife.

Yet, I'm the one who wonders why their ROI calculation leaves out any accounting for soul.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

IS a farse if you keep going over there to read. King Brutus aka Markos the screaming idiot doesn't care if you post. IT'S ABOUT CLICKS AND TRAFFIC! This is like yelling boycott then standing in line to buy the products. I can't believe the number of people, banned included, who admit to doing this. Can I get a WITNESS?

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