Vanity Candidates? Really?

On one of Keith Olbermann's latest 'rants' at GQ he goes on and on about how people have had enough of the blatant idiocy, racism, sexism and the like of Trumpy Boy and his know-nothing supporters. Then, he says this:

We have had enough of the vanity candidates and those who might as well vote for Trump, if they could seriously consider voting for Gary Johnson who cannot name any foreign leaders. Or for Jill Stein, a well meaning simpleton who stands for many good things, all of which she will watch die before her eyes, if she drains away enough votes to get Trump elected.

If there was any doubt that Olby had jumped the shark, that doubt should now be erased. Especially with the bit regarding what he calls 'Vanity Candidates' when referring to Johnson and Stein. As a supporter of Stein myself, I'd just like to start off by saying that Olby and others like him can kindly go fuck themselves with sharp, splintered sticks.

Clinton is a vanity candidate because she is so desperate to break the 'glass ceiling' not by being a woman president who will govern wisely or justly, but rather a woman president who has done everything she can to out perform the guys in every aspect, especially where foreign policy is concerned. Hell, to borrow a line from Sane Progressive of YouTube, she wants to fuck the world with a strap on. All this, while being able to say 'hey look, we have a woman president now'.

Donald Trump is a vanity candidate in that people actually think that the people who hold this country by the purse and by the balls will actually allow the toupee wearing idiot man-child to be president. After all, the greasy low budget porno producer and would-be bomber would never have won the primary without the billions he received in free press over the past year and a half. "But Drumpf wants to expose Billary and lock her up!!!111!", some say. Well, Trumpy Boy couldn't expose himself in a crowded porn theater even with Pee Wee Herman giving him pointers.

People are voting for Stein and Johnson because they want something better than this shitty Kabuki theater dressed up as 'democracy' where the elected go on to continue business as usual. I'd hardly call that vain. Vain is voting for Clinton or Trump and expecting either to 'get things done' or 'Make 'Murica Great Again'. Sorry alt-righties, you'll be just as disappointed with the walking hairpeice as you were with the walking teabags.

But please, by all means, keep underestimating us. We showed the country what could be done with a publicly funded campaign during the primaries and we will continue to do so in the years to come.

See ya around,

Aspie

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Amanda Matthews's picture

little toady now.

Carry that water, Keith!

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pricknick's picture

that so many of yesterdays progressives have turned into assholes all for money and fame?

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Amanda Matthews's picture

the wind is blowing at any particular time?

Not people that I'd ever turn my back on or trust for a minute now that we know what quislings they really are.

EDIT: They/their - good grief

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

I have no conviction, if that's what you mean. I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy.—Captain Renaud in Casablanca

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

but what I see is a bunch of people scared shitless.

People get that way when their livelihoods are threatened.

That doesn't stop me from being extremely pissed off at him, and all of them.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Or for Jill Stein, a well meaning simpleton who stands for many good things, all of which she will watch die before her eyes, if she drains away enough votes to get Trump elected.

but a simpleton is not one of them.

The simpletons (AKA Keith's dwindling target audience) are the ones who still believe Hillary would actually deliver any of the 'good' things Jill is talking about.

The simpletons are also the ones who think lamely insulting a good woman is a great way to win over her supporters.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

There is no "if." Either of the two major party candidates will kill off all those "good things," none of which Keith dares mention by name, apparently, because if he did it would become obvious that Clinton would herself kill them. In the library, with a candlestick.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

TheOtherMaven's picture

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Bollox Ref's picture

Perhaps he should go back to sports reporting.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

mouselander's picture

And that's on his good days. I remember an SNL sketch from a few years back in which Ben Affleck did an absolutely dead-on impersonation that was truly hysterical. Gotta say that Olbermann really does strike me as the kind of guy who would have a cat named "Miss Precious Perfect."

PreciousPerfect.jpg

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inactive account

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

He nailed it.

Thanks for the laugh.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

elenacarlena's picture

Thanks for the link! And Miss Precious Perfect is gorgeous!!

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

He was amazing. He said things nobody else would say, and it wasn't partisan:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLNFsl130_Y]

He has been compromised, whether by fear or favor I don't know, but he *was* great.

Affleck is a good actor, but he hasn't done anything half as helpful for this country as what Olbermann did--back before he was compromised. Now he's a lying propagandist. It's a loss.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

He has been compromised, whether by fear or favor I don't know, but he *was* great.

Affleck is a good actor, but he hasn't done anything half as helpful for this country as what Olbermann did--back before he was compromised. Now he's a lying propagandist. It's a loss.

I call KO Ichabod. (See Jewish Scriptures, I Samuel 4:21 and 14:3.) The word means "the glory is gone". And that really does apply to Keith Olbermann and quite a few of the other institutions of what passes for a "left" in the USA.

Sad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

riverlover's picture

is a damned sexist statement if you go with Clinton definitions. Or is it because she has little experience in politics? I think she's worth a gamble.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

Constitutional Scholar. Everything he's touched has turned to shit.

I don't care what his Labor Dept. says, a 'recovery' based on jobs that involve the phrase "would you like ketchup or mustard with your order' is not really a recovery at all. It's the final shovelful of dirt on our ability to earn a decent living.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Since 2004, under Dubya, this activity has been deemed "manufacturing" by some economists. As late as 2012, this discussion was still going on (Slate).

Our government works for business, and their main task is to defend business from us unruly peasants. Like the other business lap dogs, the media, they are to tell us what business wants us to believe. They are to act as if what they tell us is true. And they are to prevent us from doing anything about it.

So when they brag to us about what an exemplary president Obama has been, and that Hillary is more qualified to be president than even Thomas Jefferson, they are only doing what they are well-paid to do. They can rest secure in that too few of us can see through the lies to notice the truth, and will likely never raise enough opposition to ever topple the regime.

The goal of these lap dogs is to keep us distracted while our livelihoods and earning abilities are eliminated, reducing us to the economic status of the lowest-paid workers on Earth. Their duty once this is accomplished is to keep us pacified.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

thanatokephaloides's picture

I don't care what his Labor Dept. says, a 'recovery' based on jobs that involve the phrase "would you like ketchup or mustard with your order' is not really a recovery at all. It's the final shovelful of dirt on our ability to earn a decent living.

THIS.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Outsourcing Is Treason's picture

Worst Person in the World.

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"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush

snoopydawg's picture

Or for Jill Stein, a well meaning simpleton who stands for many good things, all of which she will watch die before her eyes, if she drains away enough votes to get Trump elected.

Do you mean that if Hillary is elected then she will do the things that Jill stands for? If that's what you mean then it's you who is the simpleton.
The many good things that Jill stands for aren't even on Hillary's radar, you idiot.
Gawd, it Unfuckingbelievable that so many people who were against the things that Hillary is going to do when it comes to the military were against them when it was Bush doing them.
Obama has killed more people then Bush did, but that's okay because he's a democrat or because the people he's fighting against are more bad than the ones that Bush was fighting. Or something.
The left would have been screaming for Bush's head if he had been president when the MSF hospital in Afghanistan was destroyed. And no one was held accountable for it.

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Putin isn’t going to make you homeless or kill you or deny you health care.
Your government will allow it to happen though.

lotlizard's picture

after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke — and liberals / progressives cheering — and then Obama came in, and one of the first things he “got done” was, to block that release. An action suddenly defended by most of the exact same (supposedly) liberal / progressive voices.

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edg's picture

It's OK If Your Gal/Guy Does It

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Centaurea's picture

"Vanity" seems to be the latest buzzword from the Clinton campaign. A way to marginalize and discredit anyone who dares to disagree with or oppose them. I've been seeing the word used a lot in pro-Hillary posts on FB the last couple of weeks.

Example: Someone writes a comment, pointing out the flaws in a Hillary propaganda post. The Hillary supporter replies: "Stop being a vanity poster!" and makes no attempt to give an actual, substantive response to the criticism of the Hillary talking point. Which they probably couldn't do, since many are no doubt paid (by Correct the Record and such) to post disinformation and cause trouble.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

called any candidate who advocates policies representing meaningful reform. Nader, Kucinich, Sharpton etc. -- anyone trying to give voice to the people's concerns is dismissed as running for "vanity". More generally, anybody who ever achieves any sort of public "notoriety" for demanding meaningful social justice is dismissed as a narcissist, an egomaniac, and/or a huckster: Again, Nader, Kucinich, Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, et al.

I used to get into it with anastasiap over Dennis Kucinich, whom she viewed as an ineffective troublemaker who rubbed his colleagues the wrong way and thus never accomplished anything. Simultaneously, of course, others were condescendingly "informing" me that "the perfect is the enemy of the good," and calling me a "purity troll" and worse. Purity? I once posted a list of DK's platform position on something like 20 issues of importance to me. I think I agreed with him on all but 1 or 2. By contrast, no other Democratic candidate agreed with me (or Dennis) on more than 2 or 3. That's their conception of purity -- anything more than a 10 or 15% congruence in philosophy.

Meanwhile, ap's contempt notwithstanding, DK's single most-oft-cited accomplishment of saving the public electric utility in Cleveland was a more important achievement, requiring more personal and political courage, and carrying more social and economic significance to more people, than everything Hillary Rodham Clinton has ever done in her life.

People who dismiss progressive or otherwise radical candidates as being motivated by "vanity" reveal their own failure of imagination, courage, and in the end, hope: They have nothing to offer humanity but a hopeless concession to the current spiral of violence, mass deprivation, and environmental despoliation. 40 years ago, Ronald Reagan, speaking (with significant clarity, BTW) on Firing Line told the gathered assemblage of conservatives that, WRT to the soviet union, conservatives had to be able to offer the public hope for something other than inevitable eventual WWIII -- which meant offering some sort of plan for somehow getting to some sort of resolution without a nuclear exchange. If the only "plan" the conservatives offered was WWIII, then they did not deserve people's votes, and they would not get people's votes.

Well, that's exactly how I feel about the current crop of Democrats, as opposed to those who are challenging them from the left. These Democrats offer sane people -- even ordinary sane people who aren't worried about the fate of veal calves or various obscure minor species of this or that or whatever such things exercise those of us who spread our ethical concern-nets broadly -- no hope at all: No hope for mitigation of climate change; No hope for affordable education; No hope for affordable health care; No hope for job security and decent working conditions; No hope for any of the things that matter the most to most people. Instead, all they offer is Thatcherist "TINA" apologetics for our collective race to a socioeconomic abyss.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

more positive social and economic significance. On balance, the harm that HRC has done to people certainly outweighs any good Dennis Kucinich has ever done for them -- and her foreign policy platform revolves mainly around doing much, much more harm to a whole bunch of people.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Flyswatterbanjo's picture

of some odious entity or person, I listen to what they are accusing others of doing. Works for Hillary and the Israeli government, for example.

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Alphalop's picture

excelled at.

A thief thinks everyone is a thief...

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

edg's picture

A guy I knew growing up used to steal cars and sell them to chopshops. Then one day, his car was stolen. He rode around with a shotgun in his lap for several weeks looking for the thief.

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Creosote.'s picture

with raging, verbally abusive alcoholics. All tneir accusations are detailed self-portraits. -- a realization that got me through countless hours without having to be upset or reply.

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elenacarlena's picture

The best candidate in the race is Jill. Hill should drop out and let her have the left-wing votes. Otherwise, those votes for Clinton could spoil Jill's chance at POTUS, letting Trump win. A vote for Clinton is a vote for Trump. All those well-meaning things she might like to do will die before her eyes if she drains away enough votes from Jill to get Trump elected.

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riverlover's picture

There are some online polls that have voting preferences with Clinton coming in fourth. She is losing to Trump. Thus the panic in the campaign.

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Pootie humor, right?

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elenacarlena's picture

of Olbermann's argument.

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Maybe the deal artist ought to offer dropping out if the friend of Wall Street agreed to do the same thus leaving the field open to Stein and Johnson.

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elenacarlena's picture

Johnson is marginally better than Trump.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Even if Clinton wins.

Trump is Clinton. Clinton is Trump.

Clinton's the better accomplished liar, and therefore knows when and where to keep her pie-hole closed. Trump just says all the shit Clinton wishes she could say and get away with it.

There end the differences.

Diablo

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

fight to elect New Democrat, center right Presidents. Lieberman, Cenk, Maddow, and those like you: Pick a side. No more helping to maintain the status quo while talking above it. You can't have it both ways anymore. Toto has already pulled the curtain aside. We see you, spinning the wheels to pretend you're more than you are.

As for Lawrence O'Donnell's claim to be a socialist, in the words of his idol, "Give me a break."

I suppose Nader was a simpleton, too? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader

Meanwhile, what has Olbermann done for humanity, besides cornering a sizeable chunk of the bloviating gasbag audience?

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Now he's a lying piece of shit.

The Clinton political machine is like a Willy Wonka machine that you feed good and helpful people and things into and come out with stinking trash. Though Wonka wouldn't have one of those, I guess. It's more of a Slugworth thing.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

What did he do for humanity that is remotely comparable to what Nader did for humanity? Compare their wikis.

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Meteor Man's picture

Alternet freaking out:. http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/five-truths-about-green-partys-jil...

1. She's only won local office.

2. She’s a low-key anti-vaxxer.

3. She’s pretty concerned about WiFi.

4. She praised Brexit as a 'victory,' and then blamed neoliberalism for the 'anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-refugee' anger in Europe.

5. She actually believes (or says she does) that Trump and Clinton are equally bad.

Yep. And Noam Chomsky is freaking out too! (May 16, 2016?). http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16215

Seriously folks? That's it? Someone really believes someone will be persuaded by this kind of tripe? Here's the link again: http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/five-truths-about-green-partys-jil...

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

#1 applies to Trump also. In fact, he hasn't even won local office. Hillary has been elected to the Senate but from the "gimme" state of New York and the local pols and Obama greased the primary for her.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

k9disc's picture

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Citizen Of Earth's picture

Not anti-vaccine. So is RFK Jr. And every other sane person who doesn't want to ingest mercury.

Alternet has been running other anti-stein articles as well. Time to cross them off my list I guess.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

riverlover's picture

Vaccines in multiple-draw vials mostly do not as well. So this is a lie based on outdated vaccine formulation, plus thimerosol is rapidly cleared, more mercury found in fish.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Big Pharma is, on the whole, not trustworthy these days, and the FDA is, well, when I lived in DC--right next to them, actually--word on the street was they were a damned scary place to work. Lots of surveillance of employees, former Monsanto guy in charge, bad news.

I don't know what they used to be like. Perhaps a true regulatory agency, dedicated to public service. We don't get to have those anymore. The ones that can't be corrupted are being defunded.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

edg's picture

Run tests to see if that is the case, or are you basing your belief on manufacturer claims?

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k9disc's picture

to research and comply with regulation in an honest manner.

The lack of trust in regulatory bodies and Big Pharma is feeding the anti-vaccination issue. She believes that many people don't trust our regulatory bodies and big pharma and rightly so.

It is not anti-vax or anti-science to answer those questions honestly.

If you trust the FDA, implicitly, you're not paying attention.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Citizen Of Earth's picture

Agreed. All the govt agencies are now compromised by corporate infiltration.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

Is anyone going to make it illegal to advertize drugs on TV? They banned cigarette ads why not drug ads? Is there anyone surprised that most American adults ( and kids ) have medicine cabinets FULL of "legal" drugs in their home?

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

k9disc's picture

Good call, tpe.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

lotlizard's picture

When I was in college, prescription drugs could be advertised only to those who wrote the prescriptions, namely physicians.

So something changed — was there a “free speech” court ruling, as happened with the American Bar Association ethics code ban on lawyers advertising? I used to know but at the moment can’t exactly recall.

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Alphalop's picture

commercials or print ads has been banned in the UK and many other European countries (I think Australia as well.)

When my friends from such places come to visit and see all the commercials on TV for pharma companies they invariably ask something to the effect of, "How can you even watch TV with all these lousy commercials?"

Personally I think they should be blocked, too many people are on too many drugs as it is and don't need to, "Ask your Doctor if X is right for you."

Here is a hint, if your Doctor is so incompetent that he needs you to come in and tell him what medications you need based off of a commercial YOU saw he is a fucking idiot and should be replaced by a competent practitioner.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to have an abundance of them anymore either, with the move to Managed Care and group offices.

I miss going to Dr. Beau. My doctor from about 1974 until 1991. His office was at the front of his house, his waiting room was a quite comfortable living room with regular furniture and while he would listen to your input without being dismissive but also without being soft and just writing it to keep the patient happy if he didn't think it was warranted.

Money is bad for our health... care system. (at least when its primary goal changes from maximizing quality of care to maximizing revenue generation.)

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Hawkfish's picture

New Zealand is one of the few exceptions.

As usual, the US is not doing something sane that the rest of the developed world does almost universally.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

elenacarlena's picture

American parents took Valium, or so it seemed. Medications have fads. The advertising to docs is effective. If you go to a doc with a problem, chances are they'll either write you a scrip or refer you to a surgeon. Educating you as to healthy diet and physical activity and/or researching natural remedies takes too long. And you're there because you want them to do something.

As for those ads, they appeal to me not at all by the time they get done discussing side effects. Four-hour erections? Increased risk of death? Rather than asking their doctors, I'm surprised people don't run screaming from their docs' offices if they suggest the most-advertised death pills.

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riverlover's picture

revenue from those 3-4 page drug ads. And eliminating drug ads in print would reduce copy size by about half as well. And for those intrepid readers who get to side effects/contraindications most probably run away, screaming. I would have no problem by banning advertising expenditures by Pharma banned. I have read that more is spent on advertising than on R&D. And we pay for it all, or insurance companies pay most.

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elenacarlena's picture

is persuasive regarding cost. I just have no problem with leaving the ads either because I don't think they convince anyone. I remember before ads were a thing, people still took way too many drugs, so I don't think the ads are the reason people take too many drugs.

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Alphalop's picture

I have several friends that are Doctors, PA's and NP's and virtually all of them mention when it invariably comes up in conversation that they hate having to take the time to explain why such and such a drug is not right for them when they could better use that time explaining to them what they should be doing or taking to treat their conditions.

My old ski buddy even back in the 90's used to complain about how it was making it harder to tell the informed patient that had a legitimate question about a potential medication from one that just watches too much TV and was inundated by commercials.

Sure, it doesn't take them too long to make that determination, but that's time wasted and has the potential to them being more likely to just ignore all patients requests as coming from such a person.

I dunno, I could be totally wrong though, this is nothing but 2nd hand anecdotal evidence at best and my own conjecture based solely on being one of those informed patients that has had to deal with dismissive physicians.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

elenacarlena's picture

_____ is right for you," so I see it as harmless informing of the patient. It's up to doctors to say, "No that isn't right for you" or to look it up and make that determination. I agree that doctors are too dismissive. I've not really had one happy that I ask a lot of questions, even though I'm not asking about drugs. And I used to work for them (hospital transcriptionist), I know what impatient pains in the rump doctors can be. I've had pretty good experiences with PAs and NPs, although I'm sure as they are overworked and/or absorb their doctors' attitudes, some of them will act the same.

So I think an informed patient is a good thing, and if doctors don't like to be questioned too bad for them, it should be their job to discuss options with patients, not to decree from on high. But a lot of them are authoritarians who hate patients' rights, so it's not surprising they object.

A properly informed patient will be given diagnoses and treatment options, with risks and benefits and alternatives. So I can't quite see how discussing an advertised drug is a waste of time. That would be, I would presume, an alternative.

It might be interesting to ask your friends some followup questions.

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Alphalop's picture

this topic. Smile

I agree 100% on the NP/PA over MD thing in general. I always ask to see my PA, she is young but incredibly smart and I can tell she really wants to take the time to make sure I understand everything and that I don't leave with any questions unanswered.

I agree that NP and PA care tends to be a lot more personal and receptive than M.D.'s, but that's not to besmirch the many fine M.D.'s out there, but as in any field you are always going to have some level of incompetents, authoritarians, scumbags and just generally lazy people. (When I do need an actual doctor I tend to lean towards D.O.'s anyway)

It's sad to admit but I have only had maybe two or three doctors in my whole life that I felt were both competent and good people...

Maybe like politics, a certain type of person gravitates toward certain fields?

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

riverlover's picture

installed for an arrythmia that the Cardiologist said was likely genetic (thus my kids had to be tested) that the particular arrythmia could be induced by a high dose of an antidepressant he was on. Years on that high dose. One would think a younger Cardiologist would inquire.

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Cachola's picture

in my experience doctors hateto admit medications canhave serious side effects. I just went through a hellish year trying to control my fibrilllation and keptvfeeling shittier and shittier. To the point i honestly thought i was dying. My internist just ignored my complaints. Finally I took it upon myself to reduce my dosage and within a week I was feeling much better. Now it's been a month and I feel great. I did finally go to a cardiologist last week and he approves. I had refused the referral because they were taking procedures I don't want. I am a terrible patient, before developing a fib my doctor used to say he gave me an A in health and a D-minus as a patient.

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

It infests all the government agencies.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

I'm sure I read that somewhere. But I'll concede it was probably a distortion.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

k9disc's picture

the law in many countries.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but we have no mandatory vaccination law here in the US. What we have is mandatory vaccination to participate in public schooling. This seems to me more of a hybrid compulsory/voluntary legal structure than mandatory. There have always been medical exemptions and religious exemptions in many states.

Nobody, as far as I know, is calling for universal mandatory vaccinations except for pro-vax arguers in media and social media. It's part of that binary political argument that we seem to be incapable of escaping in modern American politics.

A nuanced, honest and open discussion, which Greens and Stein push as an ideological baseline, is not acceptable in modern politics. This means she's anti-vax or as the article in Alternet says,"a low key anti-vaxxer".

It's a truthy argument, and nothing more.

I'm really bummed about Alternet's recent cave to the corporate center.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

elenacarlena's picture

work perfectly fine, with greater than 90% compliance, if we had the faith in our government regulatory agencies that other countries have in theirs. When she's in office and can root the corporate stooges out of government agencies, then people will voluntarily vaccinate again.

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I knew there was a push to make vaccination optional in public schools and thought she supported that. It was probably conservative "Christians" who pushed that.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

k9disc's picture

though...

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

elenacarlena's picture

problem. She realizes that could create epidemics.

She hasn't said this, but I would say if you don't want to vaccinate, you need to teach your children at home and keep them quarantined, basically.

I do believe vaccines can create health problems. But I had chicken pox as a kid before there were vaccines. If your kid gets deathly ill, s/he will not thank you for avoiding potential vaccine problems if s/he finds out you could have prevented his/her illness.

It's a choice between slight risk and big risk. Take the slight risk and then vote for Jill so that as President she lowers the risk further.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

elenacarlena's picture

But unfortunately I've developed a vaccine allergy and can't have them any more.

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riverlover's picture

I was 59. from my understanding of vaccinology, Since I have had the real deal, I am not getting the vaccine as well. No efficacy studies on vaccine success in post-shingles folk, last I had heard. And for shingles-naive folk (who had chicken pox) the vaccine is only something like 50% effective.

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It looks really painful.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

riverlover's picture

in under 3 days after the rash appeared. I went to ER the night before the blisters were evident to me, they never looked at my back, just got a chest Xray for suspected pneumonia. I registered a complaint about that Dr.

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k9disc's picture

Alternet has gone all Drumpfenfear. They're in the tank like Mojo & the Nation.

Common Dreams has done a much better job of maintaining their perspective.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

2. Is she really, or is that a smear? I've heard both.

3. In what sense?

4. Brexit is a feeble gesture that people in Britain are using to say "We want some local control of our affairs." It's feeble because as long as they have international banking interests running the show, they won't have any local control, and they're allowing themselves to be distracted from the City and their machinations by their distrust of foreigners and the continent. That said, once Obama went over and lectured them about how they shouldn't exit, I knew that the EU must be a fairly significant piece of the neoliberal plan, so, good for them. I just wish they'd get their heads out of the xenophobia and understand that the job isn't done.

5.Trump and Clinton are equally bad, because they're the political equivalent of two pro wrestlers working together while pretending to fight. However, if they were actually fighting, they wouldn't be equally bad. Trump would be marginally better. That's the hilarious thing here: if any of this kabuki were real, a "lesser of two evils" vote would be a vote for Trump.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

k9disc's picture

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

CS in AZ's picture

is in the linked article.

In March of this year, Stein discussed health concerns regarding wireless radiation, arguing kids should not be exposed to electromagnetic fields (EMFs).

“We should not be subjecting kids’ brains especially to that,” Stein said when asked about wireless. “And we don’t follow that issue in this country, but in Europe where they do, they have good precautions around wireless internet technology—maybe not good enough, because it’s very hard to study this stuff.”

“We make guinea pigs out of whole populations and then we discover how many die,” she continued. “And this is like the paradigm for how public health works in this country and it’s outrageous, you know.”

I read about this a few months ago and at that time I found the video of this on YouTube. It was at a Q&A and she was responding to a question from someone who was very concerned about this issue and sounded kind nutty and rambling with their "question" ... in a chem trails kind of way... and my feeling was that Jill's response was a bit on the pandering side... "oh yes, that's a valid concern... " but I wasn't able to find other instances of her talking about this as an issue.

So I doubt she's actually worried about it. Her answer to the question was, um, odd. But I suppose as a politician she can't afford to tell potential voters that their worries are nothing to worry about. However this was a little disappointing; I would prefer for her to be informed, informative and honest, rather than pandering on things like this. Or say she isn't informed and promise to look into it, if she must placate.

This kind of stuff is why she doesn't win elections, I'm afraid. She and her supporters can't shake off the image of being fringy and weird. My boss told me about a conversation she had with a Stein supporter who she described as "really out there" and later discovered the woman is known in the area as a loony who is always going on about various "concerns" so her talking up Jill Stein isn't helping to win anyone over.

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k9disc's picture

studies and concerns about Cel phones and EM.

And we have zero input locally, via local government about cel towers. They just happen without the input of citizens. Everything else requires an environmental impact statement and other such regulatory hurdles, but cel towers, not so much.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

EM fields and radiation. I will never buy a house in eyeshot of a power line.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

elenacarlena's picture

running through all the counterarguments, and now I can't log in to AlterNet!

Is Disqus just not working right now and interfering with any other way to sign in, or is AlterNet blocking me because I agree with the commenter's position? Anyone else interested in trying?

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I can never log on to anything where Disqus is the gatekeeper. I'm certain I've been blacklisted there.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Deja's picture

No problem up voting at Disqus proper.

Let me try the alternet article. Yes, I can up vote there, but am afraid to post a comment lol. I did read one that said alternet was censoring pro Jill comments. Up voted it, so I might be blocked from doing so in the future.

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elenacarlena's picture

comment and uprate. Zach is still near the top of the comments. I guess they were having trouble temporarily.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

of high-paid bastards lecturing me on how to vote.

Their lower-paid troll surrogates can go to hell too.

Nunya, Keith.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

His Ego was his undoing. Now, he's buried on the Internet, and has to live on his admittedly large bank account.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Not saying he's the easiest person to work with, but I saw his firing, and reinstatement with the proviso that he would never speak on any political matter again, as basically censorship, enforced by (probably) economic means.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

over the corrupt warmonger establishment candidate and the racist foul mouthed con artist with zero qualifications any time.

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“The first duty of a man is to think for himself”

eom

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

is killing us.

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Beware the bullshit factories.