Is transgender bathrooms the ultimate dog-whistle issue?
I am going to honestly ask this question because I don't know the answer: was transgender bathrooms ever an issue before this past year?
Let me put it to you in another way.
Were middle-aged men with beards and wearing dresses, using the women's room, a problem in your community? Were there enough complaints about it to merit legislation? Any complaints at all?
Because from my experience, I had never, ever heard of this being an issue before North Carolina passed a law about it.
So how is this legislation anything but a dog-whistle law to appease conservative pearl-clutchers?
Let's not stop there though.
Was access to transgender bathrooms a top priority in the transgender community before this? Were there loud demonstrations about it? Were transgender women demanding the right to piss in a urinal?
Or were they more concerned with real stuff like employment and housing discrimination?
Because from my experience, I had never, ever heard of this being an issue before North Carolina passed a law about it.
In fact, is it an important issue with the transgender community now? Or is just the fact they were singled out the reason for outrage (i.e. a reason that is easy to understand).
So how is Obama's executive decree anything but a dog-whistle order to appease liberals? Because Obama's order goes beyond just nullifying N.C.'s law.
How did an issue on no one's radar suddenly become a big deal?
I honestly don't get it.
Comments
I don't know and have wondered about this too.
I would like to see Robyn speak to this in one of her diaries.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Not to mention
now everyone's pissed off about moms and dads with their kids in which bathrooms.
Don't traumatize the grown women with stalls, instead drag the child past men lined up at urinals. I would never turn my child over to a stranger to be supervised in a restroom.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I get asked that all the time.
I get asked by some Dad/Boyfriend/ Uncle if I could do one of the either:
Take their daughter in with me.
Watch the Mens door while he takes his daughter inside.
I guess I just look "nice" and "trust worthy" to take your precious child into a bathroom... ?? And let me tell ya, it's weird and kinda skeery to take some stranger's kid into a bathroom. Like, if their kid starts crying are they going to think I harmed them??
Or the poor guy has TWO little ones with him - one of each sex - and they both have to pee NOW.
I used to work at a grocery store that had only gender specified rooms and the Womens was the only one with the diaper change area. Which I thought sucked.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Who could resist your great smile and kind face?
Rest stop restrooms are often filthy and yes unsafe. It is a trip trying to hold a female or young child off the seat while they pee.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Check out GoGirls!!!
female urination device. Got one for next camping trip. I have heard nothing but fantastic things about it from other women who hike, camp or kayak... ever gotta go pee while out in the middle of the lake in a kayak? well it sucks! (you can pee in a can or cup with it) That's one more reason.. and reviews over it are about parents not wanting to set their kids down on dirty public restrooms. Our public bathrooms are about some of the worst on the planet apparently because some reviews were about how tourists like them when traveling in the US.
I got one that had a pack of four and will just keep one in the car for "In case of" emergencies.
And thanks for the very kind comment that I look like a nice person
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Trader Joe's (at least in Atlanta) has either/or bathrooms,
single occupancy, bless 'em! That solves the problem.
In other places with sex specific bathrooms, women who need a toilet ASAP will crash the Men's Room rather than soil/pee themselves while waiting in line in the "gender appropriate" bathroom. Now those desperate women will be criminals. Crazy!
The whole damn thing is just a big distraction from reality from which both parties benefit.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
As a regular supporter of the local arts scene
I can tell you that this happens every single hour of every single day in every single tourist burg in the great state of Florida:
Imagine the free-for-all. OMG, talk about "unintended consequences" as distraction. It's beyond absurd, really, negatively, absurd. And more than a little cruel, which is why it smacks of such deliberate contrivance right out of the gate. I would love to be able to determine the moment where whoever in NC first decided this was some kind of issue that had to be dealt with legislatively. That would be mighty fascinating research, I'll bet....
I"m guilty of doing that :)
at NHL hockey games. That's a lot of money for a game and more importantly I don't want to waste a single second away from the game and the lines are long for the women. I'll walk around a bit during intermission which is super busy time on the concourse and find a mens room with not even a single person in it.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
gender crashing
I'll give away my tendency toward delinquency... In days gone by, I used to attend a fair number of festivals, special music events, summer parties, etc.. The ladies needs and methods always, always resulted in a long line, and less than desirable conditions ( so I was told). Many women crashed the men's line, and seldom did anyone comment, other than in good taste/humor. The ladies locked the door, or a gentleman behind them waited to be sure they had their privacy.
Speaking of conditions of public restrooms...it doesn't have to be as it is. I worked construction for 40 years...you know, those rough, crude, dirty, loud men??? Well, let me tell ya. When a porta john is your only relief, you take fricking care of it just like you would at home. You put the lid up, or down, aim appropriately, and follow the simple directions to keep odors down...PUT THE DAMN LID DOWN WHEN YOU"RE DONE!!! There is a vent pipe out the back!! Saves on the unmentionable visuals too. If there is a separate urinal....DON"T PUT TP, OR OTHER CRAP IN IT. If you are so grossed out by sitting your tush where I just sat, MAKE DAMN SURE YOU HIT THE HOLE@#%&*#.. There is nothing worse than entering a stall, and finding S$%# sprayed all over the the place. Use TP to line the seat, and then Farging dispose of it, rather than leaving it to gross out the next unfortunate.
The higher class the event, the worse the porta potties usually are treated. Spoiled Kids, and lounge bathroom, steam towel, worthy gentility , apparently, are never taught to have civil bathroom etiquette if mommie, or the maid clean up after them.
THUS ENDS MY RANT ON PORTA POTTIE/PUBLIC FACILITY RESTROOM ETIQUETTE!! MAKE SOME WONDERFUL MAN, WOMAN, OR CHILD, HAPPY TO FOLLOW YOU AFTER THEY HAD A MEAL THAT TEARS UP THEIR GUT>>>YOU KNOW!!!THE TIME YOU BARELY HAVE TIME TO UNDO THE BELT AND BUTTONS?????
It has nothing to do with gender, transgender, innies, or outies, it is all about biology, or whatever you call the basic act of expelling waste from our bodies. Keep it clean.PLEASE!! Pee like you are going to be the next in line.
WE have family rest rooms for moms or dads
We have single unit restrooms for everyone, including persons in wheelchairs. There's lots of room and they have lower sinks with special hand dryers that suit persons with disabilities. We have gender neutral washrooms with stalls. Male and Female restrooms in restaurants and elsewhere are becoming 2 gender neutral restrooms instead. Transgendered persons use of restrooms has never been an major issue in Canada, to my knowledge.
I thought about the "dangers" of having transgender people use the bathroom of their choice and I can't see any at all. For one thing when I go into a public toilet I don't examine every other person in there to the point where I would even notice whether they were transgender. And so what if they were? The dangers far as I can see are purely fictional.
To thine own self be true.
Sometimes it's gotta be tough for parents to figure
At our public swimming pool, some women bring their boys into the women's changing room, who look to be as much as 7 or 8 years old. This is an open area where ladies get naked, hey! Those are not toddlers! And personally, I feel embarrassed.
Well the upshot is, more girls and ladies end up using the toilet stalls or shower stalls to change clothes, and that jams the place up. Meanwhile I've been told some men bring their little girls into the men's changing room, who look about 5 to 6. A little old for this.
On the other hand, I can see where parents don't want their kids to go unspervised in a changing room or the pool area. (We did, but that was a more innocent time.) Possibly we need a rethink on how these things are structured.
Euterpe2
A possibility about the age thing
of such children being brought in the rooms..
Our son is autistic and at one time more along the Kanners syndrome side - he was first misdxed as being deaf. He would run off in a second. He needed all our attention even on good days, especially good days when our guard would slip for a second and he'd just disappear and wouldn't come to the call of his name. He'd wander away slowly or as fast as a crack. Me and my husband in various restroom situations or stores or venues would always have someone verbal or just give us the evil eye of judgement. I didnt' feel that I had to explain to every possibly witness as to my 9 year old son coming into the womens room where I would try to piss as fast as I possibly could hope I didn't hear him run out the door. And when he was older and the situation was a very new or scary thing like traveling across the country airport via airport during a storm and one of you have to check on the connection flight and I just happen to be able to help my son calm down during really big time anxiety attacks. And if you're going through an attack, the last thing you want is your mom telling every available stranger your medical diagnosis...
I think things would be so much better on this planet if people first asked, "do you need help with that?" and than "why are you doing that?"
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Hm, thanks, never thought of that
Personally, I've never confronted anyone over this, although I will confess to the dirty look on occasion. Some women seem to be like you, concerned to minimize discomfort, and for example, might have their boy wait in a space right outside the showers where he isn't exposed to everything on view. Others just seem kind of laissez faire, most of them (if you'll forgive the observation) Hispanic; maybe there is a cultural difference here?
And when it comes to rest rooms, who cares? We're using stalls anyway.
Euterpe2
Laissez faire
Here in the US we are still Victorian Prudes. Everybody does it...we pee, we poo. Shaming our selves, and our children is why we have this problem. Not everyone in the world has multiple bathrooms in their home. Try living in a house with one toilet, maybe it is separated from the other rooms, maybe not??? mom, dad, sisters, brothers... get the drift??? you learn to share, keep your eyes to yourself, show respect and dignity, etc..
I live in an area where there are many lakes, beaches etc.. Most women can change under a towel, or shirt no problem. I do agree though that at a certain age, generally the child is better off using the restroom alone, with mom, or dad outside.
And... a pervert, is a pervert, whether they expose themselves, or spy on others, or worse, they are still sick. Again, it is not a gender specific issue.
A friend of mine would ask me
to come along when he took the kids to the park or museum on "daddy weekend", so I could go into the bathroom with his two girls. This was in the era before "family" restrooms (single-seater) were commonplace.
When Mr. Scribe and I took his mom out places, the two of us would take her into the women's bathroom because she needed both of our help in transferring from the wheelchair to the toilet (and back). A few times we'd use the disabled stall in the men's room though, because it was better set up for the transfer especially if the women's room had an awkward placement of the sanitary products disposal. My mom-in-law's view: "I'm 80 years old and was married for over 50 years, and changed the diapers on 2 sons; those men don't have anything I haven't already seen."
So true Cali
and those disabled bathrooms are good for those with the aged family members and those with disabled family members or friends.
Wes and some of his friends meet up for movies at a cinema - the one that is right off mass transit and that has the disabled rooms. It allows for more privacy even amongst a friend attending with you.
Sometimes it's the smallest of things that allows for the greatest amounts of dignity.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
There have been a few
young boys murdered inside men's rooms. One of the main reasons I would take my son into the ladies room with me. Didn't want my son being murdered or raped in the MENS room. That was a concern.
Another concern were the bathrooms at some rest stops. Me and my daughter are always cautious when having to use one of those. You never know if some MAN will be stalking vulnerable women or children around or inside those.
I hear some politicians use them to hook up... and use drugs in...
My main concern is that most public bathrooms are just so disgustingly dirty and unkempt. Most of them I don't even want to use.
I wish there were more Family Restrooms so that some dad with two little girls doesn't have to peddle for some nice woman to take his two girls into the woman's room or ask you to watch them Men's door while he takes his two girls in to go tinkle. We need MORE non-gender restrooms for ALL
But have I ever had a the problems these haters are yammering about? No. Not even sure what they are bitching about.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
I think they're pretty much a requirement
in new construction here in California -- not sure about that but it seems there are a lot of them. Some older buildings have retrofitted their restrooms to make them single-seater any gender (such as Hobee's restaurant chain).
it's been
an issue in California for well over a decade. Back in 2005 the Los Angeles Unified School District established a policy similar to the one that went into effect statewide some years later. The people of The Hairball have been kicking and screaming about it the whole time. It is in fact the primary reason the droolers revived their fever dream of an independent state of Jefferson. It is not some shit just made up.
Well there you go--there is precedent
So why hasn't this gone so national before now? Why did it crop up in another state, all the way across the continent, ten years after it was/is such an issue in California?
Why hasn't it been a bigger issue before now, why did it take ten years to show up? Oh, wait...I'll tell you, it's because every media outlet in the country jumped on it when NC brought it up. That has to be the reason. They didn't do it in California, and it never got beyond a "regional" issue.
And that tells me the issue was contrived to gin up noise and division.
I would love to track it back to the very first media mention of it in NC in this decade, and then start looking for patterns (dates, number of outlets, etc.). I'll bet it would be very interesting to watch the story, ummm, evolve...
right
I remember when they contrived the whole gay thing, to gin up noise and division, when some people got uppity one night at an obscure bar in New York. And also how they contrived that whole black deal, to gin up noise and division, when a black lady was told to change her seat on a bus in Alabama.
Why didn't these remain regional issues? Why did they crop up in other states, even all the way across the continent? Obviously some sort of Plot . . . .
So you don't think that some
"consultant" in some ALEC-sponsored "think tank" ever got paid to sit around and mine the media for "things that might be useful as a divisor for The Voters over time"? Wow, how naive, particularly if you understand the concept of "the long game".
I think you have it.
I don't see this new media issue resembling Stonewall which in major part was an ongoing police brutality issue which turned confrontational when those oppressed, and a few allies, had had enough.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
the
Zoot Suit riots: another suspicious California happening. Why did it sometimes take decades, to travel to other states, the notion that maybe it's not a good idea, to allow mobs of drunken serial killers to beat the shit out of Mexicans on the street? Or, conversely, why did it take more than 60 years for the wonderment of The Hairball to appear, to pronounce that such problems can be solved simply by deporting the Mexicans, because of their known rapist drug-dealing proclivities?
Michael Brown: there's another one. So some racist cop shot a black kid through the top of the head: why couldn't that just remain a regional issue? You're not telling me racist cops kill black kids in other states, even all the way across the continent, are you? Obviously: all contrived. To gin up noise and division.
Clearly, the notion that transgender people, they should be treated like human beings, this is an issue that should be forever cabined to California. The issue creeping across the border: simple contrivance. To gin up noise and division.
Which is more arrogant?
Assuming it always happens a certain way, or assuming it can never happen in any other way but (certain ways), as postulated by (another individual or group of people)?
Please, proceed. And stop putting words in my mouth when you do, ok? In no way did I EVER say such things had to REMAIN regional. That's a disgusting sort of misunderstanding to be postulating, unless you really believe that something like ALEC doesn't exist. And that's just for starters.
&
I know all about "the long game." Which is that the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. What it does not bend towards, is dismissing and/or spurning an advance towards justice, as some Plot, a contrivance, to gin up noise and division.
All this is really quite amusing. Runt Limprod, he, too, has been railing all over the radio, that this is a contrivance, to gin up noise and division. His particular paranoia: all part of the drive towards the abolition of private property.
Mirror; mirror.
Where exactly have I "dismissed" a "swerve toward justice"?
I haven't done that at all, and don't particularly care for your aspersion that "suspecting" something like ALEC at work, trying to keep us all divided, is something only Rush Limbaugh might come up with. That's really reaching, in an attempt to....I don't know, what exactly are you trying to say here?
Why don't you just come right out and say it?
Back when the Equal Rights Amendment was up for ratification,
which simply would have prohibited discrimination on the basis of sex, the wingers claimed that the ERA would end separate public bathrooms for men and women. This claim got quite a bit of traction (anything about potties seems to be a guaranteed attention magnet) and probably was instrumental in preventing ratification. So, we still lack this very basic protection against discrimination in the US and the wingers learned that potty panic was a winning issue.
Of course their long-term agenda was about putting women back in their "place," as obedient subordinates to men's interests. ERA would have made that almost impossible. And this was possibly their first success in holding back and then starting to reverse the tide of female self-determination. Going after access to abortion, and now birth control, is another step of theirs towards returning women to dependency, by depriving us of barely-won sexual and reproductive autonomy. "Right to life," my fanny.
All pretextual.
These human rights issues are all so closely related. We are up against the same set of %$##@!WQ!!!s every time.
One account about bathrooms and ERA: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/06/3719688/how-the-religious-ri...
Euterpe2
I've been wondering this too
Both parties do this because these kinds of social issues are the only real differences between them. Unfortunately it means that if this issue is vital to your well being (e.g. Spousal rights) that they have you by the short hairs and can abuse you on issues that are less immediate (like income/wealth inequality) where the differences are razor thin.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I so agree. It is cynical
I so agree. It is cynical exploitation of things that matter to people that is instead of addressing endless war, employment, housing, health care, the environment, the dismantling of our democracy, etc.
It's the ultimate stupid issue
Was at the Mother-in-laws a couple weeks back when this was mentioned on the news. I said "What a stupid issue" and she said she supported it, because otherwise men could go into women's restrooms to molest women, and I said if someone was intent on committing that kind of a crime, why would they care if going in there was illegal? No response.
So much stupid surrounding this issue.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
Distraction and appeasement.
Distraction and appeasement.
Don't forget the word "deliberate"
that's pretty important:
Anything to avoid the mention of class and class war.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Anything to avoid the opportunity
for us to agree on enough to realize how badly we're all being played by this small group of people ("small" being "relative to the size of the rest of us")
Small in number - very small.
Large in wealth - very large.
The 1% - for want of a better term - knows that an organized and motivated populace would end their cozy scams, so, with their media in tow, hype up situations(usually real situations in need of a remedy) that exclude context. Instead of solving the problem in the context of political democracy; workplace democracy; and equal rights and treatment for all, exceptions in the law are carved out for a few which guarantees resentment and no sense of solidarity.
"Rights, unless enjoyed by all, is merely privilege extended" which can, and will, be revoked.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Thank you! Yes, this is exactly right...
The specific situation (in this case, yes, a REAL ISSUE) is being exploited. The exploitation is what's known in some circles as "a contrivance".
Dear voters in Wisconsin and Maine
Will you please depose your idiot governors so they won't insist on peering up women's skirts in the bathrooms? Even Mississippi gets it, it appears . . .
I heard a theory
That it's because the religious fundamentalists are losing ground: losing power, losing people, losing funds.
They're getting desperate. They were just convincingly defeated on gay marriage, so they dropped that (except for some obscure county clerk in Kentucky). When that failed, they immediately took up the bathroom issue. When they lose this, they'll grab up the next thing. And of course, they have the abortion issue to fall back on. They're flailing for some way — any way — to regain their former glory.
“We may not be able to change the system, but we can make the system irrelevant in our lives and in the lives of those around us.”—John Beckett
And who owns the fundies' access to elected office?
Those owners are the people you have got to get rid of. There's some serious rot setting in.
When I Use a Public Restroom
it usually results in a health hazard for anyone within a 40 foot radius. Women have used male bathrooms at clubs. I've had to use the women's bathroom due to circumstance. I assure you, the orgy only happened after several drinks at the mini-bar which is required in every women's restroom.
Just use the bathroom you feel is appropriate for you and the circumstance. This is a manufactured issue meant to attack certain groups and dangerously rile the less than rational groups.
Over the Past Several Years More and More Frequently
I've been using the line "If this is what everybody's screaming about, there must be something really important going on somewhere else". As already pointed out, people on the Religious Right need some fearmongering rallying point because they fear losing their influence but also the Religious Right's cynical users in the Right Wing establishment need something to keep them on board and not really thinking about things. I mean how in the hell is Trump being sold as the "Christian" Candidate? The way to do it is diverting attention to some periferal non-issue which no one has even considered before but now takes up all their attention.
It's just a distraction. Repubs want to lower taxes by claiming
that government doesn't work, therefore there's no point in funding it. And to distract from the fact that they're not actually doing anything for the people who voted for them, thus making their claim a self-fulfilling prophecy, they come up with this kind of stuff in hopes of being divisive. I'm sure transgender people who look reasonably like their gender identity have been using the appropriate bathroom for decades if not centuries, and nobody noticed.
Your map is out of date. As of yesterday, Kentucky's Governor Bevin has joined the suit. Sigh. http://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article80311527.html
I didn't vote for him. I actively campaigned against him, sold several shirts. So I am no longer responsible for Kentucky.
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