Russiagate: A mountain of evidence

Thus spake Politifact

A mountain of evidence points to a single fact: Russia meddled in the U.S. presidential election of 2016.

In both classified and public reports, U.S. intelligence agencies have said Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered actions to interfere with the election. Those actions included the cyber-theft of private data, the placement of propaganda against particular candidates, and an overall effort to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process.
Politifact: 2017 Lie of the Year: Russian election interference is a 'made-up story'

That's their opening paragraph and already they are off to a bad start.

Right from the beginning, the word evidence does not mean unsubstantiated rumors reported by anonymous sources. I suspect most of us here have been waiting for something that is externally verifiable and at least indicates some smoke. I haven't seen anything. Have you? Several intrepid writers have taken it upon themselves to compile the entire the list of claims and debunkings and it's a long and sordid tale.

Russiagate is like a mirage: from a distance it looks like something, but once you move in for a closer look, there’s nothing there. Nothing. Nothing solid, nothing substantial, nothing you can point at and say, “Here it is. This hard evidence justifies saturating the media waves with obsessive 24/7 coverage, escalating tensions with a nuclear superpower, stagnating political discourse in America and fanning the flames of a hysterical, xenophobic McCarthyist feeding frenzy.”
Caitlin Johnstone: The Big Fat Compendium Of Russiagate Debunkery

The folks here are not alone in questioning the lack of externally verifiable evidence. It was, in fact, the number one issue pointed out when Caitlin asked about it.

@caitoz An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof. - Marcello Truzzi Done! Thanks for playing! Smile
 — @Kylere_Original

@caitoz How many months has it been?
 — @tonyr951

And the problems, of course, go much deeper than simply a lack of evidence... evidence which Politifact asserts there is a "mountain" of. There's also the questionable reliability of the sources. For instance, when the New York Times writes something like this:

In late 2016, top United States intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government directed a massive cyberattack aimed at denying Hillary Clinton the presidency and putting Donald J. Trump in the White House.

This broad campaign included hacking and leaking Democratic emails, pushing false information on Russian media outlets, gaining access to state and local electoral boards, and using social media to disseminate misinformation.
New York Times: What is the Russia Story

it is important to remember that they have, quite literally, been reporting blatant war propaganda about Russia for a century. Yes, that's right. We are told we should believe people who have been lying on a topic for one hundred freakin' years.

Fake news on Russia is a Times tradition that can be traced back at least as far as the 1917 revolution. In a classic study of the paper’s coverage of Russia from February 1917 to March 1920, Walter Lippmann and Charles Merz found that “From the point of view of professional journalism the reporting of the Russian Revolution is nothing short of a disaster. On the essential questions the net effect was almost always misleading, and misleading news is worse than none at all…. They can fairly be charged with boundless credulity, and an untiring readiness to be gulled, and on many occasions with a downright lack of common sense.”
Popuplar Resistance: FAKE NEWS ON RUSSIA & OTHER ENEMIES: NEW YORK TIMES, 1917–2017

Reasonably speaking, when a group has been continuously lying about a topic for 100 years then at least asking to see some evidence seems prudent. Well, actually, simply ignoring them outright seems even more prudent but who knows? Maybe they are right this time?

Then, of course, we get to the US intelligence agencies have have told us that Russia hacked everything under the sun ranging from hacking the Vermont power grid, to various European elections including France and Germany (in both cases the domestic intelligence agencies denied the claims of their politicians and the NSA), and the list goes on and on... starting of course with Russia hacked the DNC.

So what we have here is politifact (and Snopes for that matter) pushing the statement that Russiagate is real based on "mountains of evidence" -- evidence which as we all know does not exist and was delivered by people who have repeatedly lied on this very topic... recently... and regularly.

I'll say the same thing to Politifact that I say to I say to all the other McCarthy-ites... show me your "mountain of evidence". In the mean time, all I see is a mountain of liars repeating the lies of the deep state.

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"Well, actually, simply ignoring them outright seems even more prudent but who knows?" I know Charlie Pierce of Esquire fame sold out to the Hillbots but Jeez, this makes his "Idiot America" come to life once again. Things that should not be debated as there's no substantive reason for them to BE debated have become regular "discourse" in Murka. No one remembers WMD? My God, that was only a little over a decade and we still are "fighting that war." They're really going with the same old tired shit. And once again, just enough of this country are on board. New Cold War? Massive spending on more military weapons, nuclear too? No problem. Healthcare and basic living for all? Fuck no. What, are you a Putin stooge?!

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Outsourcing Is Treason's picture

Of course nobody’s seen a lick of evidence. It’s all a mountain of bullshit.

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15 users have voted.

"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush

SnappleBC's picture

@Outsourcing Is Treason

This is one of the things my family likes to quote to me, "But Snopes/Politifact/Whoever" says.....

Although I will say this. If it turns out that Russia hacked the DNC, handed the emails to Wikileaks, then further colluded with Trump to steal the election via the purchase of puppy dog facebook ads then you can just color me surprised!

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9 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Alligator Ed's picture

@SnappleBC Lately, it seems to be blue.

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5 users have voted.

@SnappleBC

Hey, don't forget that those rascally Russians also divided bigots and murderers from the rest of the American population - who would never otherwise have imagined any such concept was possible - when they pretended that Black Lives Matter and had the nerve to mention them in ads, when Black Lives don't Matter at all, to Those Whose Lives And Whims Really Do Matter and who are obviously just fine with the routine police murder of American citizens with impunity, starting with those Disposables of darker skins, the homeless, used-up and broken war vets and and anyone having mental/psychiatric challenges.

And have done other evil things, such as ensuring that pensions and health care are available to their people rather than feeding their defense budget like the good US authoritarian crony capitalists and notoriously sent aid to help alleviate suffering and death in humanitarian disasters the US PTB were quite happy with. Even are notorious for keeping agreements with other countries, something that the US PTB would never even consider. I mean, really!

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0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

International sanctions resulted from Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea, which Putin wanted to see lifted.

Crimea wasn't annexed, the people voted whether to stay with Ukraine or Russia. They chose Russia. Another lie that we keep hearing is that Russia invaded Ukraine, when it was our government that overthrew its elected president. Hillary's BFF Nuland is on record stating that it cost $5 billion to get it done.

CNN told another lie just last week when they said that Wikileaks gave Trump Jr. the key to unlock the DNC and Podesta's emails 4 days before they were released to the public. This was actually done days after the emails had been released. The person at CNN who ran with that story has been suspended from CNN for a month.

These are just some of the lies we've been told since this started as you and Lizzy stated, but now we're supposed to believe them? Mkay.... And how about the Steele dossier and Trump's Golden Showers?

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12 users have voted.

To really control a country, you must first control its courts. Then whatever you do is legal and anything the opposition does is illegal

TheOtherMaven's picture

@snoopydawg
Time was, that level of incompetence/malfeasance would be grounds for firing. But when it serves the purposes of The Ruling Class....

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7 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

SnappleBC's picture

@snoopydawg

Honestly, I reported this because up until now the jury was out on the fact checking sites in my mind. There may have been other stuff but I didn't track it. This one was just so blatantly obvious that now Politifact (and for that matter, any other fact checking sites) are off my list.

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0 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

snoopydawg's picture

Ahh Bill, et tu?

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7 users have voted.

To really control a country, you must first control its courts. Then whatever you do is legal and anything the opposition does is illegal

Lookout's picture

...and yet no reporting from the corporate media...typical.

Here's Bill Binney and Ray McGovern explaining the disconnect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1BZD6UX3wU (12 min)

Bill Binney was only the NSA tech guru...so why give him credence?

It amazes me this false narrative (Russiagate) continues to dominate shows like Maddow's (the most popular news show in the country). No wonder we are a nation of blithering idiots when this kind of crap is peddled as news and the sheeple gobble it up.

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8 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

The concept of a "fact checker" has been proven in the last election cycle to be pure bullshit. They turned out to be very political, excusing crooked Hillary on every issue, and finding everything that Trump said to be a lie. Not surprisingly, they defend Russophobia. The claim that Russia hacked and denied us our democracy is sooo appealing to Her Majesty's Supplicants that they are willing to believe it. The whole chain of evidence is a joke. The DNC-CrowdSrike-the CIA, NSA and FBI. Not one intelligence agency has a single piece of original evidence, simply believing a private company with a sketchy record. The statements from these three agencies is the evidence in the entirety used by the MSM and our greedy, lying politicians. At least the NSA had the decency to say that the evidence was not conclusive. But you will not find the MSM quoting that.

We seem to have reached an all time low in demanding evidence. We love summary execution by drone. The military gets to do whatever it wants, even the Secretary of Defense doesn't know what they are up to as he recently stated. We have completely given up on due process, evidence, principles, and rationality and the people don't give a shit, primarily, I believe, because the MSM doesn't tell them that they should give a shit.

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11 users have voted.

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Eagles92's picture

A statement like this would get you kicked out of Journalism 101:

U.S. intelligence agencies have said

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SnappleBC's picture

@Eagles92

... that it was the job of the press to see if what the government said was true or not. That, of course, was always a spotty performance on their part that they at least tried from time to time. Nowadays, they are stenographers and cheerleaders.

This goes back to why things like Trump and Moore can happen. Why on earth would a Republican voter believe MSM when they say the truth about people like that? They lie so often otherwise.

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3 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard