Re: Rich Men North of Richmond
Alrighty, Rich Men North of Richmond is already discussed in 2 current threads, so I thought I'd toss this up here and refer to it in each, rather than repeating myself. Just my typical crazy random thoughts.
OK, this will not discuss what the author/performer meant and/or intended by the song "Rich Men North of Richmond"; I'm not qualified to do so on a vast number of grounds. I've never been a southerner except that I was a Southern Californian for a while, but that doesn't count. Nothing Californian counts. I'm not the author and I don't know him. I don't know his background, how he thinks, nor his linguistic tendencies. I'm far, far too often obscenely over analytic. I am also unduly influenced by what little I know of history.
First, let's dismiss Billy Bragg. He's not from the south, or the north, he's a Brit. He has well known socialist leanings and tendencies and is a fan of unions. His response to "Rich Men North of Richmond" is an almost socialist union mongering song that at best addresses the plight of the poor, but, mostly the working poor through the unionizing lens. It is totally inclusive, including, among others, northerners and fat people. and is simply socio-politically and geo-politically elsewhere. We'll put him in the "not relevant" box.
Now, what do we hear, intended or otherwise, in "Rich Men North of Richmond"? What can we learn or conclude.
1 There are no rich Men south of Richmond, or else they are benign, well meaning and helpful.
2. Life in and south of Richmond would by idyllic were it not for rich Men up north
3 Fat people live entirely on fudge rounds
4 Fudge rounds are only bad if fat people buy them, it is ok for skinny people to consume them and for the government to pay for their purchases thereof.
5. Richmond, VA is the center of the universe, the key referent with relation to which all things are measured. It's latitude, 37 degrees, 37.27 min N Latitude, is a critical locus and a lens through which the country is to be viewed. There is a world south of Richmond, perforce good, and another north of Richmond, at least partially demonic.
This largely comes about because of the unfortunate trope "North of Richmond" which may be intended to identify D.C., or maybe Manhattan, or maybe both conjoined into some evil symbiosis. It was not a good choice because of all of the historical cultural echoes. To a westerner, it can be strongly evocative of a still simmering and festering divide that we can't not note.
be well and have a good one
Comments
I'll let Chris answer your questions...
Best to hear from the horse's mouth rather than speculate. (10 min)
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Listened to part 1 the other day and part 2 this morning.
Like I said, "this will not discuss what the author/performer meant and/or intended by the song "Rich Men North of Richmond"" What it is about is what one hears when one listens to the song. When I first heard it I couldn't help but hear, among other things, a good old boy's lament about what those folks north of holy Richmond were doing to the good people of Holy Richmond and points south thereof.
be well and have a good one.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
yeah it is all about what we hear...
...not what is being said? Each to their own.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
What is heard is very often what is being said.
And sometimeswhat is heard defines what is being said to those hearing it.
is straight out of Reagan, regardless of asserted intent.
words have meaning in and of themselves. If you call somebody a lowlife heathen, simply suing a phrase you read somewhere and "meaning" only that they didn't attend church, you, nonetheless called them a lowlife heathen.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
The singer/composer
is not the stereotypical hillbilly redneck southerner. It is obvious he is dissing government that is not representing us, pretty much supporting programs that make us sick, kill us, and the lyrics have nothing to do with historical north/south cultural divide. We are working ourselves to death for no financial gain-----for us, that is.
That was what you heard, El? A southern redneck dissing welfare recipients and calling for northerners to stop welfare?
The world outside so-called liberal Democrats heard the heartbreaking truth.
Give the song another listen.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I heard both. I heard a complaint most likely about
about the political classes in DC keeping the working class stiffs down. I also heard a seemingly gratuitous swipe at the "obese milking welfare", which seemed to be somewhat unmistakable language (milking welfare, really) echoing Ronald Reagan and his divisive lies about welfare queens.
But also, instead of 'the rich, everywhere, are giving the rest of us (everywhere) the shaft, or the political classes, everywhere, giving the rest of us (everywhere) the shaft, or the political classes in D.C. giving all of us (everywhere) the shaft, but a drumbeat undercurrent involving not all rich, but specifically those north of holy Richmond whose victims are presumably, by inversion, those south of holy Richmond.
As I noted, it is perhaps because I'm a westerner, or my age or that I've read so much history but the repeated gratuitous use of the seat of the Confederacy as a principle referent for things jumps out at one, not DC, Politicians, nor Rich People per se, none of which are referenced. I then wondered, just how many others heard those things too.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I can see how the mention of Richmond
is a red flag/Civil War thing. But the city north of Richmond is DC. He did poetry. Richmond / rich men. Very clever, a good "hook" in musical terms.
Not sure how many friends you know who are on welfare and food stamps. I am in an extremely poor area. In order to eat, Ramen noodles and Spaghettios, in order to escape the awfulness, eat candy, or swap the food stamps for some beer. I see it every day, see the poor selling their food stamps.
A friend came to my home with a bunch of t-bone steaks. 2 decades ago. He offered to sell them to me for cheap. Not quite understanding why they were offered, I bought them. For cash. He then used the cash to buy booze and drugs. He would have been better off eating fudge and Frosted Flakes.
The system sucks. More songs confining the poor to junk food need to be written, more work on the part of our government needs to address our approved foods, and amount of food stamps allowed.
That is what I heard in this song.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
For Pete’s sake!
Items 1 & 2 are more about the homophonic similarities of “rich men” and “Richmond”, a play on word sounds
Sometimes with music it is much better to put one’s brain into “Park” and simply try to feel what it is all about.
Just my 2 cents ….
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
I wrote a comment
that rich men/Richmond was poetic, a great song "hook" but it disappeared.
What is just north of Richmond? DC. Great hook, nothing about the north/south divide.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Quantico
and a bunch of other spook/military stuff.
If I might interject...
The song is an allegory. Using a geographic reference is something that can easily show a separation of motivation and intent of two different classes of people. Identify the differences between people who dream of a better more fulfilling life and those who prey on them. Something I believe adds so much is that this class of people are so ready to lend a helping hand whenever they see someone in need.
Even though I have never lived anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon (does Tucson count?) I identify with my brothers who know there are more important things in this fleeting life than money and power.
Be well.
Excellent comment.
Rich men north of Richmond are the government who screws us every which way but loose.
I loved the minors/miners line. LOVED IT!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
which Richmond?
Hi all, Hey EL! I like your points all EL.
What surprises me is that according to most recent Geography knowledge surveys I know of, at least half of America does not know what 'north of Richmond' means. Sure everyone in VA does, and maybe some adjacent states, but there is life west of the Mississippi. They took Geography out of schools decades ago, and it shows according to surveys. Most people away from a fairly local area could not have told you Richmond VA was just south of the great swampy cesspool we know of as D.C., and that was the reference.
thanks for the thoughts as always...
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein