A Proposal Is Made
A recent gjohnsit post, https://caucus99percent.com/content/remember-bernie-bros-dead-enders, which suggested that the “Bernie Sanders wing” of the Dimocratic Party is in ascendance, garnered 148 comments most of which were negative both about Bernie and about our political system in general. In my own responses, I twice asked for at least one positive statement from the naysayers that could be built upon. Receiving no reply and being both anxious to build a bridge over troubled waters and to meet my own request, I have drafted a proposal for your consideration.
I propose an alliance between those of us who see value in continuing to use the electoral system and those of us who don’t. There are many here who carp vociferously about the corruption of our electoral system (no argument there whatsoever), but react by saying that it is meaningless to vote because all candidates are corrupted by the system (including Bernie and all “Berniecrats”) and nothing ever changes O, me! O, my! *hand to forehead palm outward*. My proposal is this:
Those who believe that there is at least SOME value in voting will get together (caucus) and tell the carpers who to vote for. The carpers, who believe that voting is meaningless will then vote for those candidates losing absolutely nothing in the process.
If “our” candidate wins, then we both win: we get the candidate of our choice PLUS the carpers get another opportunity to carp and moan even louder when nothing appears to happen in six months or so. PLUS: the carpers get to throw in “I told you so” ad nauseam at a new bunch of elected officials (who knows what the Russkies might find there?).
If “our” candidate loses, the carpers get instant gratification PLUS “I told you so” ad nauseam and those of us who still believe that there is some value in the electoral process will lose nothing because we know that all of the carping and moaning is meaningless.
WIN/WIN. What do you say?
Comments
I always vote,
even though I believe that it almost always changes nothing.
It costs nothing to vote, even if you vote for a goat.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
So 6 months is our litmus test?
OK, whatever. Sorry, but the problems we have are not going to be solved in 6 months. So yeah, I'm a carper.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
And that ladies and gentlemen
is how a non-partisan blog becomes a partisan blog. I'm assuming when vote you mean vote for democratic party politicians.
As one of the "carpers", you so derogatively assign, I wouldn't vote for a democratic War party politician if you paid me. I would however vote for third party candidates if applicable and I always vote for direct democracy actions offered in my state. (I'm also trying to work on the National Referendum Project to institute direct democracy at the national level.) But I don't need any advice for that, thanks.
@Big Al I would however vote for
Yup. Past two Pres elections for me, I've done Green twice. Referendums are also great: direct power to people.
But yes, that's the thing. The Democrats/Republicans will always tilt back-and-forth, but that's it.
45-55
48-52
51-49
And on and on.
But it doesn't matter. Because they both want the same things. Decades and decades of experience shows this. All the wars, the surveillance, the tax rates, the deregulation, all of it is supported across the board. What's the difference?
vote vs not vote does not a partisan blog make
I think I'm a carper too, but I don't take offense or object to Strollingone's claim that this is indeed what I/we/some of us here do - a lot. It is why we are here and not at Red State or DailyKos, its dually evil and mirror image twin. Reality can be a bitch. Refusing to see or accept what others see is way too snowflake for me. I have to acknowledge the reality of others and be able to address it at least to myself. If I can't, maybe I'm wrong.
I always vote, and I also believe my vote is totally meaningless. However it is free, easy to do absentee, and the fraudulent system might fuck up somehow and let the peons accidentally win something. Michigan is voting on legalizing pot and ending gerrymandering. Our governorship is up for vote, and it is important that the Koch, ALEC, and DeVos family rule lose its stranglehold on our state. Freaking awful Stabenow is also up for re-election. Do I want to make her eat her superdelegate vote for Hillary or help the Dems take over the Senate and make Bernie Chairman of the Budget Committee? I do have to figure out who to vote for and why, but there is no way in hell I am not going to vote. The way I see it, I can stay home and hand them my vote, or I can vote and make them work to steal it.
Do you want to know what my big bitch is? People in Detroit who don't get off their ass to vote. Prince Obama brought them out in huge numbers. Snyder and the GOP poisoning their brothers and sisters in Flint, destroying the public schools, and not spending taxes to fix the roads on fixing the roads doesn't motivate them like that grinning bastard Obama. Just like NY, CA, and other states, Michigan is red except for SE Michigan, the population center of the state. The only exception to this was Bernie. He turned outstate Michigan blue. This is why the Democrats play identity politics and refuse to give it up. Kamala Harris pushes the black and female buttons and will be their candidate. If urban centers show up to vote, Kamala lies her way into office just like Obama and the Democrats win. If the urban centers stay home like they did for Hillary, the Dem funders and the GOP win. Until voters strategically use or withhold their vote to take the system down, we lose whether we vote or not. Our vote is the only pretense of power we even have left.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Is that the political definition of "Hope"?
Continue with an electoral strategy that has won us nothing? How many decades have we been doing this?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
lol - could very well be.
Maybe it is just habit and indoctrination. As I said, either way my vote is not likely to count. However, I must say my vote for Jill Stein in Michigan in 2016 made a difference. I always told my staff that if you don't document it, you didn't do it. Same is true with your opposition to the two party oligarchy. Not voting doesn't document anything but your absence.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Starving the beast
Actually my non-participation in a corrupt electoral system is documented. In polls where they show that the participation % in the corrupt electoral system keeps shrinking.
Ergo, I await with interest when the power structure running the political masquerade we are calling democracy sees that number dip into the single digits. Organic shifts in the status quo are unpredictable, but they also can present opportunities.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I thought of that very response when I typed my comment
back to you. What you say is true, but it provides no real explanation. Were you sick? too lazy to show up? disinterested in both the candidates and the process? But now I am also assuming the reason why the no vote actually matters when it probably doesn't. A no vote being out of sight, out of mind is probably good enough.
I sometimes leave a spot on my ballot blank. That's a no vote too. I google all the candidates on my ballot and try to make the best-informed decision I can. It isn't easy where everyone is pretending to be non-partisan.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
No it isn't
But I respect your ethics for trying to do what you feel is tbe right thing to do. Which ultimately is what we are all trying to do. The right thing.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Your assumption is, of course, incorrect.
Nowhere have I even hinted at such a possibility. That's all yours.
Up until the last election cycle, I had for fifty years put "Decline to State" in the blank for "Political Affiliation". During the last cycle I registered as a Democrat so that I could for the first time in my life vote for a person that I thought was qualified to be a President. I did that by writing in the name of "Bernie Sanders". My vote was counted and that's all that I expected.
As for the rest: If the fins fit wear 'em with pride!
Bickering Is A Win/Win For C99P
People here are gonna bicker and be "carpers" over everything, (including Bernie) because that's what we do. There will be common ground on issues like (1) Hillary, Obama and the DNC/DCCC suck (2) the Corporate Duopoly sucks and (3) the biggest threat to America is the MIC.
Bernie chose to attempt reforming the Democratic party, because that's Bernie's ballpark. A lot of former supporters are disappointed with Bernie for legitimate reasons. I seriously doubt a Green/third party run in 2016 would have ever gotten traction. Bernie progressives are having some success. Will anything change after the midterms? Who knows? I hope they have enough success that a combined Progressive/Black Congressional Caucus can raise awareness going in to the 2020 election. I could be wrong and totally off base. We shall see.
The midterm elections may be a tipping point or a total dud for Bernie, Progressives and America. Until then I suggest we keep bickering and carping, because that's what we're gonna do anyway.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
For some reason that reminds me of the Monty Python sketch
"I'd like to buy an argument":
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNkjDuSVXiE]
Beware the bullshit factories.
I'll See Your Argument
and I raise Two Contradictions. Here's five pounds for a strange sketch and a humorous viginette.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
5 pounds is pretty cheap
for an argument.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Your vote is all you have.
Why not use it? Use it your own way. I have never seen an election where the true believers didn't vote their true beliefs, but they aren't us. Evaluate, think, cross your fingers and vote. People here are the ones I have always looked for: those who think about what they do carefully and then follow through all the time knowing they could be wrong. I feel despair when I think of climate change or the power the neocons have, but I don't stop hoping because that and your vote is all you have.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
True
It's the only thing they want from us, or the only thing they want prevented from going to the other guy. Whatever change happens it's going to come from the bottom up. I admire the Tbaggers for one thing, how they totally F'd the republican establishment. I think sooner than later the same will happen with the democrats. Peoples disgust with the d's is just increasing by the day, hence the fake progressives. We may not be able to take over the party, but maybe we can make some of the bastard walk the plank.
What might be the
criteria for the decided candidate? Voting for the greater good or the lesser evil (to put it simply - maybe too simply)? Say for instance prez in 2016 - Stein? Someone else?
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
No
I have no intention of telling someone to vote a certain way.
What I will do is tell someone why they should participate:
Because the ruling elite want you to tune out of politics while they steal the country blind. The more apathetic you are, the more hopeless you feel, the better off the kleptocrats are.
Think about it. If you were a thief would you want the public watching and asking questions?
Amen, brother. n/t
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Teachers in my state have walked off the job.
Why is that ?
Because public education in my state has been defunded.
Why is that ?
Because Neoliberals of the Republican party control the state house, the state senate and the governor's office.
Remind me again why I shouldn't vote this November.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
We can watch and ask questions without voting
You keep going back to this. Same arguments. But still not correct.
What they *want* is a docile public that thinks voting and cheering for your political team and waiting forever for crumbs is the only thing one can do. They want us to accept it because there is no alternative.
They want the populace to behave and sign petitions and wait for some politicians to be voted in to finally change things. They want our anger, frustration, and demands to be quieted by channeling it all into a power runoff ditch called electoral politics. That is what they want. That’s what you’re promoting.
People think change will happen by continuing to do the same old thing... voting for the lizards. Which is obviously what the lizards want.
The problem is, lining up in the chutes to vote for them is giving them legitimacy to keep doing what they do. It keeps up the illusion that this is the government we want. It must be, since we keep voting for them.
Deciding to stop doing that does not mean someone is apathetic, disconnected, or not paying attention to the fact these lizards are running a scam. Quite the opposite.
Participate != vote for major party
"Participating" is far broader and more inclusive than just casting a ballot every two years.
What other actions do you advocate?
I asked the same last night. You didn’t answer, because apparently you needed to go and post that essay about how everyone hates the democrats (who we keep being told we must vote for, as long as they’re the “right” democrats), and never got back to it I guess. But I really want to know. Outside of getting on the team of the best lizards there are to choose from, what else counts for you as “participation”? And why do you keep equating not voting with being apathetic and not paying attention?
OWS was participation
as are many other activities... opt out, starve the beast, speak, act, etc.
Voting helps too though, even third party. Our dissent is recorded that way.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Well, what are you promoting ?
What's the secret, what's the answer ?
Stop being so coy about it.
What do you suggest ?
Half the people don't vote already, will things improve when that reaches 75% ?
Will our problems be solved when nobody votes at all ?
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I’m not being coy, and I don’t have the answers
What I feel personally is, I’m not going to continue legitimizing this corrupt system.
What I’m proposing is that people on this site who choose not to continue legitimizing the corrupt system, and who point out it’s failings, and note that’s it’s a giant scam that zaps our ability to really change anything — I propose that they stop being attacked, shamed, scolded, and ultimately silenced.
I understand your frustration.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
The "ultimately silenced" part . . .
seems to be failing miserably.
I will add, I do now support a boycott
Which would not be just not voting.
(I’m answering now as if you meant this as a genuine question, despite the sarcasm.)
An actual protest around the idea that we won’t keep voting for lizards, that is the best I got.
Half the people vote. Bazillions of dollars and hours go into elections. What has it gotten us? How’s that working out? How the fuck is voting for more of it going to change anything??
Man, I’m tired of this argument that if you cannot magically fix everything, the only choice is keep hitting yourself in the head and hoping it works this time.
YES, that's what I do.
I keep hitting myself in the head and hoping it works.
Because that's all there is.
That's the only avenue I see.
When you've got another one let me know.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
You brought up another avenue yourself
The teachers strike. Like I said last night, they are demonstrating how to act outside electoral politics. They do not care if the government is run by democrats or republicans or lizards even, they demand change now, from whomever is handling the levers of power. You can’t really believe that democrats would fix these problems without just as much pressure. Do you?
Well I'm glad they're doing it.
But here's the thing, the reason they have to walk out is because of tax cuts and the defunding of public ed. by the state government. It matters who controls the state legislature.
Let's see how this turns out.
The teachers can march all they want but the funding still has to come from the state government, that is, from elected officials.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Ditto, I'm happy to see the teachers who have walked out
I wish that more people could do that and it would have been great if they did right after the tax bill went through.
This is what people are going to need to do to get their government's attention. Protesting and boycotts are what is going to be the most effective I think. But let's figure out how to get others to wake up and see how this country is being demolished by the tax cuts for the rich and the corporations.
There is no reason why Bezos should be getting a huge tax break for building his company in a city. This will affect so many areas of what cities provide for the people. We're seeing the affects of the tax breaks for the oil companies and that's why the teachers are not getting paid a decent wage. I love the fact that they are also looking out for the other people who aren't getting paid enough. From the janitors and the school bus drivers to the lunchroom workers. It's great to see the community is supportive of the teachers.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Here's an idea
check out the Black Mirror, season 2, episode 3, it's about a guy who taunts politicians creatively.
The Waldo Moment
That series btw is quite addictive.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I might give the series another try
I made myself watch the second episode of the first season after in episode 1 the guy porked a pig. Wow, that bothered me for some reason and I stopped watching it.
I'll watch the one you suggested though and see how it goes.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Yeah, it can be pretty edgy
but nothing like that first one. There are synopses on-line as well, so that viewers can know what they're going to see.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I'm tired of the argument that . . .
if you cannot fix everything you have no reason to fix anything. I could write an essay on the things I disliked about Obama, but it's been covered by others. But I did like the required, substantial increased standards in miles per gallon autos were going to meet. I also found it a good idea to provide funding to the best scientists in the country and allow their work to be included in policy debates. The extension of unemployment benefits that Obama and the Democratic majorities enacted prevented foreclosure on my sister's home.
I guess the value of the crumbs one party provides and the other excludes depends on how badly you need the crumbs.
If people are given something to vote for, they'll vote.
I think a lot of first time voters voted for Bernie.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I didnt answer
because I don't like the tone of this discussion.
And life is too short for that headache.
So you cannot provide even one idea
Well, ok then. You claimed you have dozens of them, and I asked you sincerely and nicely what those are. You blew me off with a referal to old stuff on daily kos. I’m thinking you didn’t answer because you don’t have one. You’re being disingenuous when you say there other legitimate forms of participation.
I understand, you don’t like being questioned on your statements or being asked to back them up. And you’re a super popular big wig here, so there’s no need to answer to the little people.
Oh, he's not a big wig.
We don't have any big wigs here, that was the whole idea.
Now if you want a form of participation,
there's going to be a march downtown on May Day.
I'll be there.
I can't believe we've never met, you and I, after all these years.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
He is, relatively speaking
Very often, scanning the front page one gets the impression this site is the daily gjohnsit. It’s not unusual for 70-80% of the visible list is his essays. He gets by far the most recommends on his posts, and has a cadre of followers that rivals DOV. Let’s at least be honest about it.
Thanks for the invitation to the protest. I’m working that day. I’m supporting the strike by helping cover at work for two coworkers who are staying home with kids, their own and others whose parents have to work. We do what we can.
If you don't like gjohnsit's posts
the internet is a big place...
Whining here is unbecoming.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Thanks so much for the input
Very helpful.
No problem!
Try the veal!
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Oh no, dervish, I can’t go there. Veal is cruel.
Does this place serve veal? Damn. I want to speak to the chef.
That's because he writes.
It's not an editorial decision.
You or I could do the same, just step up and do it.
gjohnsit is bright, well-informed and, most of all,
he has the drive, the time and ability to write two or three posts a day.
I couldn't do it but thanks to gjohnsit, there's decent content at c99 all day every day.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Sigh...
First, I have a full time job. Not everyone has that kind of time on their hands. I never said it was an editorial decision, it’s simply a fact. He’s popular with a large following, so he can blow off questions about his disingenuous statements with no worries. That’s all I said, and your response along with dervish shows the truth of it.
@CS in AZVery often,
If I could jump in here for a bit.
Gjohnsit often writes like 1-2 essays a day, so not particularly strange to see him on the front page.
I don't write essays that often, but when I do I seem to make the front page as well
So far from my time here it just seems that if people write something, good chance that it will end up on the front page anyway. I often see Al, or Alligator, or Steven on the front when they write essays.
Like many here, I skip the front page entirely
and move to the commentaries section. Right now I'm not writing essays because, for some serious reasons, I don't have time. I'm grateful to the people who take the time.
Is someone censoring your essays?
You should be thanking him for all the content he
donates to this site and our reading pleasure, not sniping at him. He is entitled to his opinions. That is the whole point of this site.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Wow. I called that one
Me Too!
What a coincidence. Lol.
It’s always a pleasure.
I hope someday you will deign to actually answer the question I asked you. I’d still love to know about any of those dozens of alternatives to electing progressives you have advocated, and what other forms of participation you might deem legitimate.
I have been here since c99 started, and I
have never seen anyone advocate for voting for the Democrats except the trolls that came over from dailykos before the election. Voting for either of the two establishment parties is as useless as not voting.
Personally, I wouldn't tell anyone how to vote or to vote or not vote. I have my opinions, but some people are just a total waste of time.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Rouge journalists
But you can do that through blogs like this, or doing what Jimmy Dore, Caitlin Johnstone, and other rouge journalists are doing.
Participating in a corrupt electoral system only falsely "legitimizes" it.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Hard to counter that argument.
There are so many good arguments for voting, not voting, voting third party, not voting third party, etc. that I don't think I can pick just one. For me, this usually means sometimes this and sometimes that depending on what day it is, will usually work best.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
That is true
Which is why you see oppositions calling for election boycotts all over the world, all the time.
The thing is, those boycotts never solve/achieve anything.
Applying an agreed upon metric that could measure
The "success" of election boycotts might be more useful than throwing out a wide generalization about them that does nothing to inform the readers.
Really?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
OK
Well, the winner of the boycotted election always takes power and rules as if the boycott didn't happen.
Yes, there are questions about his/her legitimacy, but it never goes beyond questions.
Am I missing something?
I think we are talking about two different things
I'm talking a movement where instead of people going to the polls we protest the illegitacy of our electoral system.
Not a candidate.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Um, how about this?
If there is an actual Left left in America (and I have some doubts), it is small, disorganized and poor. In other words, completely unequipped to make a dent in big-money partisan elections. So why waste scarce resources there? Instead, if you wanna be active in electoral politics, do it on the local nonpartisan level where it may still possible to get something done. Having local elected officials who seem to have an idea of what's going on may not only help your town, but will also provide an example to other towns, as well as generate a group of experienced folks who may some day work their way into positions with broader influence - just don't ever get hung up on leaders and personalities. The same with local ballot measures: they also can provide an example to other communities. It's all part of how a movement grows.
As was pointed out above, voting is free, so there's no need to be shy about using that vote for partisan politics. Just don't give them time, energy or cash, since they can get that themselves elsewhere. Concentrate your work where it will make a difference.
And of course never neglect non-electoral politics, which IMHO is where the real change comes from. This is a very long haul...
I will vote next election
As stated above, non political policies are where the change is. This is absolutely correct. Gay marriage was first voted for in many states and passed in a few, but the biggest change we're going to see is marijuana becoming legalized. This is something positive to vote for.
It's only medical marijuana that is on our ballot, but it's a start for Utah. If it gets passed then we can start working on recreational marijuana. This will be much harder for Utah because of the Mormons who are dead set against it and people here do what their church tells them to do unfortunately.
Then there's the other legislation that can change how cities do things, so yeah, I'll be voting for those types of things.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Mormons, do they believe in karma?
the two times I encountered our local guys, the ones who go out evangelizing, I ended up lecturing them, bigly. The first time was about how disgraceful I thought it was their church poured tons of outside cash to get PropH8 passed in California. That was so terrible it ended up in the Supremes court. FTS, it's a good thing the decision did not go the other way. whew
Maybe it will be karmic justice that turns the wheel for you after the crushing tons of California green that could pour in to Utah and decide the cannabis issue for good. lol
Wannabe Chris Hayes
oh please
The second time I talked to them, I told them off for locking up everybody's ancestry behind a pay wall, that should be illegal. There should be no profit involved to know who our ancestors are. I spoke from the knowledge I gained when working at Broderbund Software, and we bought Banner Blue, and that was the company who sold the ancestor CDs (when Internet was dial-up) shakes fist at sky
Omg it blew my mind how much money was involved, and the tech support was great! A friggin' gold mine that turned our call center in to a "profit center". People would call you up just to chat about their ancestors. lol
Oh yeah, there was a third time when I asked those Deacon guys if they knew what a watershed was, and do they know which one they live in, etc.. NOPE. The entire block their church property sits on is a nightmare, ivy so overgrown takes up half the bike lane, full of garbage, the drains are half covered. Why the city does nothing, I don't know. Someone has to evangelize for the watershed, no one listens. The Mormons don't knock on my door anymore. huh
cannabis is peace
if you let it
P.S. Whatever happened to the Separation of Church and State? Wasn't there an amendment or something? lol
Just realized how big a block of states that would be.
There could be a lot of interstate commerce between California, Nevada, Utah, Oregon, Washington and Colorado. No wonder the corporatists want in.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Actually there already is a lot of transportation between
the states. I'm constantly reading articles on how drugs are found after a person is stopped for a minor traffic error. Broken taillight, speeding or weaving.
Yeah right. People are not going to go out of their way to drive carefully or make sure that there is nothing wrong with their cars.
The dea gives the cops a heads up, but they can't use the evidence in court because of how they got it illegally. So the cops make up a story about why they stopped someone.
Now in those cases, the stopped person will do something even more stupid and so the cops call for a drug dawg.
The highway patrol is already camping out on the borders because people make booze runs to Wyoming or Nevada, add in pot and it's a huge chance of being stopped.
Stupid state! The money other states are making from taxes sure could be used here! This is why I dreaded moving back.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Oh there is separation of church and state here
it's so separate that only Mormons seem to get voted into the legislature here. So the church doesn't have to tell them what they want done by leaning on them at the capital, they just do it through their individual wards.
I get missionaries now and then and I still am usually polite and say no thanks to what their selling. But one day after saying it 4 times to this pushy little dweeb who wouldn't take my no seriously, as I was closing the door he "said that if I don't convert then my soul is going to Hell"
Oh boy, did I open that door back up and give him a good portion of my mind......... Heh, his poor companion knew that he had gone too far and he hopped it off my property lickity split. But the other guy took what I gave him and then he apologized. I always wondered if the other guy listened to what I said about the religion and changed his mind? Now wouldn't that be something?
But when the next one came I was as polite as ever.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
imo, there is no level that is non-partisan...
We are split ideologically to the nth degree.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
No D's or R's will get my vote
However I might vote Green or Socialist if I think the candidate is worth voting for.
Vote for the candidate
with the smallest campaign chest. Make the wealthy establishment label themselves as sellouts.
75% of all Americans, from all walks of life want campaign finance reform.
We need to get everyone to see the futility of waiting for our current elected(appointed) representatives to change things and commit to sending everyday people to elected office.
Be they cooks, garbage collectors, barbers, plumbers, or anybody as long as they are working class or middle class. A constant stream of newbies.
They couldn't possibly do any more harm than those running things now.
By 2022 we could have a whole new Congress, Potus, governorships, and state legislatures.
The only way to beat them is to turn their money against them.
Those with money, lose.
IMHO
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
There's a lot of weapons in the arsenal
Swamp the system with candidates of, for and by the People and co-ordinate that with our powerful, people's tools like boycotts and our ability to raise large sums of money, fast as was done with Bernie's campaign and Standing Rock. Create a people's fund that can be used to finance, maybe, a people's media, that can support the people's candidates and can give all the candidates fair time and exposure to share their views and debate, and that can expose corporate distractions and propaganda.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Vote your conscience but vote
Perhaps Tim Canova has quietly launched a progressive wave. The conspiracy by the DNC, including Hussein, Handsy Biden, DNC against him was so blatantly visible that no one could miss it--if they were looking? If a person won't vote, why would they look?
Perhaps all the repressed progressives that Stenchy Hoyer is strong-arming will say "I'm outta here. I'm running Independent like Tim." If there are enough who win, perhaps they can form a nucleus around which a new progressively-oriented party can form. Instead of caucusing with one of the Duopoly, they can start their own caucus. To this nucleus might adhere members of other parties such as the Greens, etc. The process will be likely slow, at least at first, but could hopefully gather momentum. Even if such a new conglomerate of Progs elects only a few members, they may actually prevent the almost mythical Blue Wave (like the toilet bowl cleaner I use) from gaining a majority. In fact, given enough size they might prevent both Duopolites from a majority.
Wouldn't that be interesting? Forcibly requiring either major party to coordinate with a bunch of rebels--rebels with a cause, rebels not reliant on big money.
You are trying to build a bridge
Over troubled waters by pejoratively referring to those of us who disagree with you as "carpers".
This is a snark essay, right?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
In large part, yes. The troubled waters are where
the carp swim, but now I see that it may have been a red herring. I stand by the use of the word "carp", though (look it up).
Thanks for this essay, for the proposal
thanks, I had the same kind of sentiment when my voter info thingy arrived in the mail, it's more fun to vote in blocks and feel some solidarity, as if it might make a difference. Also, I like to discuss candidates, listen to debates, etc.. I am a political junky I guess. It is how I was raised, it's in my blood. My grandpa worked for Hiram Johnson before he became a judge in San Francisco, let's talk about progressives! Where are they?
need a party need a party need a party need a party need a party need a party
You started out by calling me a carper, and I then I felt bad, like fuck solidarity this is war! lol
I am still interested to know who you think I should vote for in California, so go on let me have it with both barrels.
just go with the flow
peace
Eyo: Thank you for thanking me...I hesitated until now to
look at the responses given the first few. I no longer live in California, so I don't know as much about the players there as I once did (in my former official capacity we sued three governors over a twelve year period all over the same thing). But I would be happy to do some research...which seats are you most concerned about? I am really good at giving excellent advice. Remember: the proposal is meant to be a collective effort by anyone who wants to chime in.
This was edited to add Eyo's name in the subject line as I realized that, once again, I was talking to myself.
I guess I'll be voting
in the primaries for sure, maybe volunteer if it's possible. Then after that, in the general it's all bets are off. As for the argument about voting it's probably a matter of hope/no hope. Both views seem equally valid at this point. With either party I'll be either stepped on or ignored if past history is any indication of the future.