Obamacare in 'death spiral'

This was a very bad week for Obamacare.
The biggest reason was news from Humana.

Health insurance giant Humana on Tuesday said it will quit Obamacare's insurance markets altogether, announcing it will stop selling individual coverage in 2018.
The decision makes Humana the first major insurer to fully exit Obamacare amid uncertainty about the GOP's undefined health care plans. Other major insurers said they could also withdraw from Obamacare marketplaces next year if Republicans don't take immediate steps to shore up the law before replacing it.

The Humana exit will strike Tennessee first.humana.png

At least 40,000 people in the Knoxville area may have no health plans to pick from in the Affordable Care Act’s markets after insurer Humana Inc. opted to pull out from all 11 states where it still sell plans in 2018. Another 39,000 in the state would be forced to find a new insurance company.
It’s a warning of what may come if lawmakers don’t do more to shore up the markets. Some big insurers have retreated in the face of mounting losses, while those that have stuck around say that they need more certainty about the rules of the road from the Trump administration and Congress to continue to sell ACA health coverage. And the markets are already fragile, with 43 percent of enrollees having just one or two insurers to pick from, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if we hear of other insurers leaving,” said Cynthia Cox, who analyzes insurance markets at the foundation. “Right now, there’s just not a lot of incentive for insurers to stick around.”

The news didn't get any better today.

Molina Healthcare Inc., one of the few big insurers that’s stuck with the exchanges created by the Affordable Care Act, said Wednesday that it could pull out of some markets next year after losing $110 million in 2016....
One of the biggest industry critics has been Aetna Inc. Earlier in the day, CEO Mark Bertolini said the markets were “in a death spiral,” predicting that more health insurers will quit in 2018, following Humana Inc.’s decision this week to exit entirely next year. Aetna cut its footprint to four states for this year, from 15, after losing about $450 million on sales of ACA plans last year. The company is mulling whether to further reduce its presence.

Obamacare was always flawed and needed to be fixed, but th GOP has absolutely no idea what to do to fix it.

On Capitol Hill, the prospects for transforming the health-care system don’t look good. Hard-line conservatives want to go back to the initial plan of repeal first, replace later (or never). The Freedom Caucus wants to eliminate the Medicaid expansion, while congressional leaders want to increase the funding to compensate mostly red states that never expanded, ensuring parity nationwide. Republicans are essentially caught between their promise that nobody will lose coverage after Obamacare and the vow of their right flank to reduce federal health-care dollars. And without the president coming in to dictate the way forward, lawmakers will likely remain at one another’s throats and searching for a resolution.

It appears that Obamacare is destined to implode, and both Republicans and Democrats will be rightly blamed.

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Obamacare was only a bandaid. And bandaids always fall off sooner or later.

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ZimInSeattle's picture

when the Repukes said they would replace it with something better, they meant better for the insurance industry, not the people. It sucks living in such a backward country. The silver lining here is that maybe single payer will come along sooner with ObummerCare out of the way.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Citizen Of Earth's picture

@ZimInSeattle
Not with the current neoliberal corruption of congress. As i recall, when ACA was being crafted, NO Repubs would vote for single payer, and there were enough blue dawg Dems who wouldn't support it either. And Obama went golfing rather that use the bully pulpit.

So what has changed? Repubs are now in charge of 3 branches.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

Wink's picture

@Citizen Of Earth
rather than bang on the bully pulpit." Exactly. Not that it would have mattered much, but it would have been nice to see him at least defend "his" own Plan. My lord, what a lame ass he turned out to be, very lucky to get out of town before his -ahem- "Legacy" came toppling down on his lame ass.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

@Wink

"...and Obama went golfing rather than bang on the bully pulpit." Exactly. Not that it would have mattered much, but it would have been nice to see him at least defend "his" own Plan. My lord, what a lame ass he turned out to be, very lucky to get out of town before his -ahem- "Legacy" came toppling down on his lame ass.

And yet what did that chickenshit moderate 1985 Reagan Republican do once it was clear that HER! was going to lose to the Braying Orange Huckster? He hauled his sorry lying ass before the cameras and begged We the People to stand against the Republican dismantling of the only program he produced which had any beneficial effect on the average American citizen. Heck of a job, Barry! Ward Nine got better support from Dubya.

He knew all along the value of the Bully Pulpit. He knew how well it could work if used. He was too busy thinking that his POTUS jacket made him look cool to actually decide to LEAD an effort to give the nation something it needed.

So fuck him and his LIEbury. I hope the residents of Hyde Park manage to prevent the construction of the Mausoleum to Misfeasant Malfeasance.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Wink's picture

@neoconned

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Strife Delivery's picture

I mean everything.

Economy
Environment
Peaceful Relations

The last hundred years could be called Humanity's Death Spiral

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@Strife Delivery

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

shaharazade's picture

@dkmich manufacturing water safety hysteria in another push to privatize our water. We have a state law enacted by a Democratic majority that forbids rent control in a state/city that has become a wet dream for developers,investors (foreign and out of state), realtors and landlords. Portland is a 'hot market' in the latest round of the housing bubble machine. The state is threatening to sue Portland if our city supervisors try to implement any city plans to create affordable housing be it rentals (no cause evictions are rampant here) or skyrocketing home sales.

This is what happens when neoliberal, corrupt Demorat's are in the majority in state, county and city governance. Blaming, loathing and fearing Republicans seems absurd when the Democratic party rat's have no intention of obstructing or governing democratically. The crooked Gov.Kitzhabar who won by posing as a environmental progressive declared Oregon is open for business. He may be gone but we're still getting the business from his successor and our useless Democratic run state and city government.

btw Obama did not just go play golf. His WH cut deals with the for profit healthcare industry lobbyists including the hospitals. The public option was dealt away in Aug 2009 way before the phony Town Hall debacles. It was never an option just bait for the Heritage Foundation's plan. Here's an article I bookmarked back in the day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html

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@Strife Delivery [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T2UeKKac-s]

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@Jamawani

Damn near made me cry with that one. Holy cow, that was seriously magical, in real life, too!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Strife Delivery It's exploding based on Republican promises of unlimited crack cocaine for business.

I'm watching it daily, ready to pull the plug on the IRA when the next crash starts.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Strife Delivery's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness Bubbles are fun.

And when that one bursts, the common folk will be forced to bail out wall street and what not. This will funnel more money yet again to the top. Rinse and repeat. How many times the public will accept this, no one knows. But besides, regarding the stock market...how many of those in poverty or even the working class own stocks? Just a means for the rich to become even richer.

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@Strife Delivery @Strife Delivery It's the new pension. That's where my IRA came from - rollover.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Wink's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness
Better to put it under your pillow.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

@Wink

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness @The Voice In the Wilderness

But they're after the (edit: capital, whether investments or bank deposits) in both industries. The US can no longer claim full (or any) faith in their financial institutions, so WTF?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Creosote.'s picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness
in the face of the increasing uncertainty and likelihood of vast authorized poaching of the public. Especially with regard to IRA funds, along with a discussion of the relative safety of credit unions for both savings and IRAs. Recently we learned that the under-the-pillow option would in a crunch convert whatever you have to 'dark money' - as that's supposedly illegal drug money in the eyes of anyone in a position to seize it. Someone else suggested parking funds in gift cards, but how and how long would that work in an implosion?
I was born the year Gershwin died, and am hoping for non-technical options that would give me a chance at avoiding the worst.

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@Creosote.

They steal your money coming and going.

Apparently the police have been seizing gift cards, presumably in case you remember a drug dealer's B-Day...

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/10/3-courts-agree-cops-can-swip...

Scan away —
Court: It’s entirely reasonable for police to swipe a suspicious gift card
Two men pulled over in Texas were found with 143 gift cards and no receipt.

Cyrus Farivar - 10/17/2016

A US federal appeals court has found that law enforcement can, without a warrant, swipe credit cards and gift cards to reveal the information encoded on the magnetic stripe. It's the third such federal appellate court to reach this conclusion. ...

...The cop then asked the driver, Broderick Henderson, what was in the bag. Henderson replied that they had bought gift cards. When the officer then asked if he had receipts for them, Henderson replied that they had “bought the gift cards from another individual who sells them to make money.”

As the 5th Circuit summarized:

After conferring with other officers about past experiences with stolen gift cards, the officer seized the gift cards as evidence of suspected criminal activity. Henderson was ticketed for failing to display a driver’s license and signed an inventory sheet that had an entry for 143 gift cards. Turner was arrested pursuant to his warrant.

The officer, without obtaining a search warrant, swiped the gift cards with his in-car computer. Unable to make use of the information shown, the officer turned the gift cards over to the Secret Service. A subsequent scan of the gift cards revealed that at least forty-three were altered, meaning the numbers encoded in the card did not match the numbers printed on the card. The investigating officer also contacted the stores where the gift cards were purchased—a grocery store and a Walmart in Bryan, Texas provided photos of Henderson and Turner purchasing gift cards.

...

... The 5th Circuit also noted that while users have the “ability to re-encode the cards,” citing a device for sale on Amazon, the “time and expense it takes to purchase and use a re-encoding device to change at most a few lines of characters means it will rarely be worth doing for a lawful purpose.”

This possibility of any illegal purpose to be determined by the people who get free money by taking yours, just because they can.

This was not far below on the same searched page:

Amazon.com Gift Cards
Shop hundreds of gift cards from Starbucks, Nordstrom, GameStop, Whole Foods, Sephora, and more. ... Make Money with Us. Sell on Amazon; Sell Your Services on Amazon;
[Search domain www.amazon.com] https://amazon.com/gift-cards/b?ie=UTF8&node=2238192011

Buy gift cards from Amazon or elsewhere and you'd better have that receipt registered with a notary; even video evidence of having bought these from a store won't save your money from the police...

http://boingboing.net/2016/06/09/oklahoma-cops-can-use-scanners.html

/ Xeni Jardin / 4:57 pm Thu Jun 9, 2016
Scanners let Oklahoma cops seize funds from prepaid debit cards without criminal charges

The Oklahoma Department of Public Safety has purchased several 'Electronic Recovery and Access to Data' devices to install in police cruisers for seizing funds from prepaid debit cards during roadside arrests.

Oklahoma Watch first broke the news. There, Clifton Adcock reported that police use of this technology represents a new approach to civil forfeiture, and began with a DHS initiative. ...

... The ERAD scanners are designed for use in law enforcement vehicles. Using the ERAD device, troopers in Oklahoma will be able to “freeze and seize” funds that a suspect has previously loaded on their prepaid debit card. ...

... The vehicle-mounted scanners can read and store some data from other cards, too: debit cards, credit cards, and “payment account information from virtually any magnetic stripe card,” according to ERAD's website and patent documents. ...

... Federal and state laws allow police to take property or cash said to have been earned through drug trafficking. The officer grabs the assets, and the law enforcement agency they work for then takes ownership of the assets through a civil court action.

Sometimes the police officers steal valuables or cash along the way for themselves. ...

It's not legal; the illegal cannot be 'made legal' by passing illegal laws to claim they are. But when they have the guns and commonly get away with even obvious murder and can use the power of the State against the citizens it exists to serve - not to mention tourists then stranded without funds - and corrupt judges co-operate, the top needs to be changed by the bottom 99% having the blood squeezed from their stones, so to speak.

And it'll be the poorest and most vulnerable without regular bank accounts most likely using pre-paid debit cards to try to protect their mite from thieves so as not to be left starving/unable to pay rent; the wealthy have credit cards (and better lawyers).

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-legal-for-the-police-to-seize-the-money-...

Why is it legal for the police to seize the money on pre-paid cards on the spot if they suspect you have committed a crime?

OHP Uses New Device To Seize Money During Traffic Stops

Oklahoma police have a new gadget to scan pre-paid debit cards and take all the money. It also doesn’t say what their definition of a pre-paid card is. Couldn’t any debit card be considered pre-paid since you need money in the account to use it?

Gary Hewitt, Director at Sustainalytics (2014-present)
Written 10 Jun 2016

I guess there are two questions here (I’m assuming you are talking about the U.S.).

First, is what is the legal basis for these actions, when there appears to be robust Constitutional protections in the fifth amendment against deprivation of property without due process of law.

These proceedings are typically called Civil Asset Forfeitures, where the defendant in the case is not the person whose property is seized, but rather the property itself. Since the property is being accused, the burden of proof turns onto the owner, to prove that the property is not involved in criminal activity. More details here: Civil forfeiture in the United States.

The legal rationale is that the property itself is “criminal” in some way. This has some logic: for instance, illegal drugs, or smuggled goods, or other contraband is clearly criminal at some level - so “convicting” and seizing the property itself might be justified, even if the judicial system can’t convict an individual person.

The use of civil asset forfeiture has grown significantly in recent years, however, and expanded beyond these items for which “criminality” is fairly straightforward, towards items that are more loosely connected to suspected illegal/criminal activity. Most attractive is large amounts of cash - often linked to money laundering and drug trafficking, but there is also a long list of legal reasons to possess large amounts of cash. Civil asset forfeiture bypasses the pesky requirement to prove anything, and allows seizure .

Also controversial is the aggressive use of forfeiture by certain law enforcement organizations in what might best be described as revenue-raising efforts. Notably, trading waivers of asset forfeiture for promises not to arrest make it look a lot like legal extortion. Opposition to civil asset forfeitures is one of the few things that the ACLU and the Heritage Foundation and the Institute for Justice can agree on.

The second question is, why is law enforcement so happy to do this? The glib answer is that these civil asset forfeitures generate a lot of money, most of which goes to the very organizations doing the seizing. The less glib answer is that these seizures are powerful tools to use against certain kinds of crime. My personal opinion is that the shift to seeing large amounts of cash as “criminal property” subject to seizure, is the tipping point that leads to abuse.

'Leads to'?

... The legal rationale is that the property itself is “criminal” in some way. This has some logic: for instance, illegal drugs, or smuggled goods, or other contraband is clearly criminal at some level - so “convicting” and seizing the property itself might be justified, even if the judicial system can’t convict an individual person. ...

'Cash' does not equal 'drugs' and cannot be pretended to do so in any sane environment - any more than corporations can be pretended to be people, only with far more rights than do the actual people, whose rights are not being protected at all by their own public servants too-often eagerly abusing them.

This is the looting phase, and those non-millionaire/billionaire Poors should have nothing, with those more powerful having every 'right' to take anything they might still be able to scrape together.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Creosote.'s picture

@Ellen North
Great thanks for spelling out more of the accurate darkness.

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@Creosote.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Creosote.'s picture

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Azazello's picture

The IRS says it won't withhold the ACA penalties from tax returns.
--> WaPo
This is important. There are people who signed up for Obamacare only because of the penalties. If there are no penalties, enrollment will drop.

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

@Azazello

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

@duckpin It's in today's NYT. I think they said due to an EO issued by Donald Trump.

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It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan

@chambord

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Citizen Of Earth's picture

@Azazello
So if young people don't want to pay predatory prices for HC, they don't have to. Without the mandate, the ACA numbers don't add up. The house of cards is coming down.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Citizen Of Earth

The house of

.... Usher ..... (E. A. Poe)

is coming down

Diablo

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@thanatokephaloides

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@irishking [video:https://youtu.be/hATjg5VxJag width:420 height:270]

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@thanatokephaloides

can't disagree.
thx.

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Obamacare strengthened the for-profit insurance industry by transferring public, tax-generated, money to the private sector. Obamacare has no effective way to control costs. Since private insurance has administrative expenses about seven times higher than public administration, the rapid end was forecast.
The overall costs of our health system under Obamacare 17% in 2013 rising to 20% in 2020.

No other industrialized nation has these high costs.

Profit needs to be removed from the delivery of health care services in my opinon and, more importantly, in the opinion of those who are very familiar with the system.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

@duckpin It isn't just the health insurance industry. The pharmaceutical industry is doing its part.

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@FuturePassed mentioned the AMA that lobbied for and got, and continues to support, what Clinton gave them, an onerous requirement that MD's from other countries must complete an entire residency in the USA before being allowed to practice here. This is the main reason American physicians make double the salary then physicians in western Europe make.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

EdMass's picture

Escalating Premiums and unreachable Deductibles don't mean it's bad. All those Exchanges, the marketplace of competition to drive down prices, are working great! Oh, crap, they're not?

In many States, like Vermont, you have the OCare Exchange choice of BCBS or BCBS. Umph. One could ask what purpose the State Exchange serves if all it is a middle man to BCBS. Oh, revenue to the State. Good jobs at good wages (Thanks Mikey the Duke!)...

oops.

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Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

Citizen Of Earth's picture

It was a laugh riot. I found myself laughing thinking "only a f**kin idiot would have said that."

Some CNN lady said "this should have been a conversation Trump had with a therapist -- not a national teevee press conference". I have to agree.

Trump did say at the PC that his Health Care plan is coming along Great and they will have an announcement on it in early March. Bend over folks, here it comes.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Citizen Of Earth

Trump did say at the PC that his Health Care plan is coming along Great and they will have an announcement on it in early March. Bend over folks, here it comes.

Take out stock in K-Y......

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Daenerys's picture

@thanatokephaloides since KY stopped making the sensitive formula a while ago. (TMI? Gotta laugh else you'll cry.)

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This shit is bananas.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Daenerys

Astroglide for me since KY stopped making the sensitive formula a while ago. (TMI? Gotta laugh else you'll cry.)

K-Y's latest product line -- the two-part formulas -- cause me to cringe every time I see an ad for them. (And I see those ads frequently!)

You see, being originally trained as an electronic tech, I've worked a lot with industrial adhesives!

The first thing to enter my mind is epoxy (or, worse, two-part cyanoacrylate!).... hence, the cringe!

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@Citizen Of Earth Grab your ankles and spell RUN.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

gulfgal98's picture

insurance. Healthcare should be a human right, but only in the US is it a right for those who can afford it.

This is exactly why Obamacare was destined to fail. It was flawed from the very beginning because Obama refused to consider single payer or even to use the bully pulpit to lobby for it. He caved to big pharma before the plan was even drafted. Medicare for all was the most logical route to universal health care, but that was never on the table.

Good going, Obama. Bad

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98
I would not use "caved" to describe Obama's dealings with the Master class.

He sold us out long before 2009.

He screwed us just as he intended all along. There was no "did the best he could" as President. He was a fake and a liar from the beginning.

Thank Dog for Podesta emails which expose his corruption. He is totally busted.

"The Sultan gave Michelle and I a piece of cake."

What a dumbass. Master of the language. Genius. argh.

"I am the smartest man in the room. Always." uuhhhh.

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@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98 I agree. The thrust of our health care system should be taking care of ourselves; be our own doctor. We should learn in grade school through high school to understand, respect, nourish, trouble-shoot our biologic selves. The state of our health has nothing to do with pharmaceuticals but rather nutrients, movement (exercise), detoxification (it's not that complicated), and, shh, parasites. This is stuff I had to learn online like millions of people in the so-called alternative medicine niche. When I turned 50 I had to make major changes to set my health right. If I had been taught this stuff as a child, oy vey!

Check out Joseph Mercola and Marc Sircus for pretty much everything. For parasites, Hulda Clark. Also, there's great stuff on youtube. If you have high blood pressure, ask youtube..., etc.

Here's a link to an article I read today. Check out the first comment. It's an example of the kind people involved

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/16/early-deme...

Doctors are a last resort. They are concerned with their prescription pad and billing codes for insurers. Word.

peace

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@p cook Tin foil hats are for sale on Aisle 3.

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@Jamawani Take the red pill. Enjoy the matrix.

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@p cook I was violently sexually assaulted and came close to being killed. 20 years afterwards, I discovered that I had Hep C and now have cirrhosis. I am aware of the excessive pricing of new antiviral drugs - esp. when compared to the Salk vaccine in the 1950s. And I resisted taking the new drugs for political and ethical reasons. But, ultimately, the reality one lives in is the real thing. Perhaps 10 or 20 years from now there will be an entirely different - and more sane - access to medical care and medicines, but if I did not take this treatment, I would be dead.

I have cycled more than 100,000 miles. I x-c ski. I cook almost all my food from fresh ingredients. I do not drink or smoke. And I volunteer in my community - - but all of those things do not do anything to eliminate the Hep C virus.

Attitudes such as yours are not only ill-informed, they are arrogant. They are little different than prohibitionists stomping around telling everyone else not to drink. If YOU do not want to take medications - fine. But you cross an ethical boundary when you start telling other people what to do.

I fear that you ascribe to the very consumerist American worldview that if you just do everything right - the results will be great. To paraphrase Marilyn Manson, if you just use the right mouthwash, you'll be able to fuck the girl. There's a social Darwinist corollary, too - that if people are sick, poor, homeless, etc. then they must have brought it on themselves.

Mirrors are on aisle 4.

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@Jamawani @Jamawani

We are biological systems; our functions from the cellular level up are dependent on having sufficient of numerous nutrients available and a healthy diet of non-toxic food (and, where suitable, supplementation according to circumstance,) is essential to optimum health, as are other factors, including, as stated in that post, exercise.

This is hardly tin-foil hat territory, unless you believe in polluting industry 'science' claiming that - especially following Bush's trashing of the EPA's libraries and the destruction of governmental scientific evidence compiled against chemical companies - whatever's good for their cost-saving/profiteering is just fine for those forced to live and die with the consequences of cost-saving/profitable damaging exposures which cannot even be tracked in their multitude due to the protections corporate polluters enjoy over citizens.

If independent scientific findings and the need for industrial regulation placing human and environmental health over ever-increasing industry profits had been consistently and continuously respected and applied to sane public-protective law, there would be not nearly the amount of need for pharmaceutical intervention - or the outrageous profits accruing to pharmaceutical interests which have long been branches of the petrochemical industry and are now also GMO and nanotech-involved.

These condensing monopolists have become more wealthy and powerful than small countries by draining citizens and resources and this is how they are able to manipulate entire governments and why they are protective of the other branches of the polluting industries they depend upon as the producers of their products and, in the case of some major shareholders/companies, are directly involved in/allied with/profit directly/indirectly from in the promotion of medications and other treatments for industrially-related diseases.

Please don't knee-jerk your way into tin-foiling biology, history or the sources of many current and disastrous problems.

The specific article posted was not one I would have personally taken to heart, but the body of the actual post, which I cannot now seem to access to check was, certainly in its introductory paragraph, quite sensible, as far as I now recall after some distractions.

Edit: I gather from your since-posted reply that you may have believed that the poster to whom you responded to be recommending diet and other life-style choices only to the exclusion of any medical aid.

However, the point I understood to be made in that post was made that drugs should be a last resort rather than an automatic go-to for all health issues, with encouragement to build up the body's resources where possible by paying attention to diet and exercise, not to refuse pharmaceutical treatment where required, and I couldn't possibly agree more.

Hepatitis treatments are a whole 'nother ball of wax than such those as general fatigue, digestive problems or other issues resulting from dietary issues/nutritional deficiencies which also form signs of a weakening system more vulnerable to the development of more serious dysfunction/disease.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North @Ellen North Context is everything.

The OP talks about the collapse of Obamacare and the millions of people who will be left without health coverage. I think you will find few here who will argue with the view that Obamacare was deeply flawed. Some probably assumed that it would be improved by the next Democratic administration. (Yeah, right.)

Yes, nutrition, exercise, safe environments are essential to good health - but the real question is whether or not people have access to the full range of health options. Statements such as "medicine is overrated" actually mock those who don't have access. Access to preventative healthcare also has significant impacts on obesity, diabetes, tobacco and alcohol use.

It's not "either / or" it should be "both / and" for everyone.
And to discount those who face losing half of the equation is unacceptable.

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@Jamawani

No, certainly both must be available, and unfortunately, neither are, in richest-country-in-the-world-America.

I'm afraid that I misunderstood your initial response as dismissing the role of nutrition in health, having encountered such before, so my apologies for that, and my sympathy for your horrendous experience and life-long results.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North Thanks EN.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

I said years ago it was a stupid unworkable mess! (Which made me a RACIST!!!) And after old Max had those doctors and nurses thrown in the pokey and I said that if that was what passed for Democrats I'd never vote for another one again. Down came the ban hammer. But by that time I didn't give a fuck.

Obamacare was a jaded scheme of Barack Obama's to play the public against Big Pharma and the corporate health insurer's. He got to (try) to claim that he solved the problem of healthcare coverage for Americans (his 'legacy') while Big Pharma and Humanas, BCBS etc., got a captive clientele. When the Empty Suit shit-canned the mandate for corporations but left it on the public, that's when I knew it was just a matter of time before the whole mess came crashing down. Took longer than I thought, but here we are.

I suppose that I shouldn't feel so smug. But hahahahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so tired of us being screwed by these guys. I can't wait to see what the Repubbies come up with.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

CB's picture

@Amanda Matthews
in DKos got run out of town. Obamacare was written for the private, for-profit healthcare providers by these same healthcare providers. They needed the federal cash boost that Obamacare gave them. I got slammed for pointing out the rise in their stock prices.

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One of her corporate masters had it all planned - she would cut Medicare reimbursements to compensate the insurance companies for their "losses" (I am assuming that Joe Isuzu has gone into the bookkeeping business )

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On to Biden since 1973

I would love it if Trump said, OK, you couldn't come up with a solution and I promised it would cover everyone, cheaply, so I've just dropped the Medicare eligibility age to 0. He seems to really get a kick out of decisive action that surprises everyone. The GOP's heads would explode, but what could they do? The DC Democrats would hate it, too, for the same reasons that the GOP would, plus jealousy, but they couldn't admit it. Fury all around in DC.

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Sandino's picture

@Sunspots and be elected president for life.

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They only need to let it die. That way they escape all blame.

But it would be nice if Trump decided as our country's first CEO that expanding medicare to all makes the most sense. Haven't researched if he's in the insurance companies' back pockets but what if he's not? He could very easily convince his red meat followers that this makes the best (capitalistic) sense and disentangled healthcare from being an employer's obligation.

Yeah, I know...Really stretching here. But I am finding his own party's animosity toward him amusing. Perhaps it will be of use to him. He's harped on having a new plan that'll we'll all love so much that I could see him ramming it through by rallying the public around him (for once!) I doubt he will just let it go.

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but now with Trump, they can kick it to the curb and really skim the cream. I blame Obama, but Trump gets no points for his committee of chaos. These are real people with serious health conditions that these ass-hats are screwing over.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

I think the best Progressive outcome of the Obamacare dismantling would be for the states to be allowed carte blanche to set up statewide and even regional single payer pools.

State healthcare reform’s biggest impediment might be federal law, specifically the ACA and the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA). The Affordable Care Act’s requirements that states follow its exchanges can be waived, starting in 2017, if states achieve a waiver. The three standards for doing so are providing coverage at least as good as the ACA’s, providing coverage to at least as many people, and costing no more for the federal budget. These are rather easy standards to meet, especially if states implement basic coverage single-payer. At worst, the states will need to supplement funding to meet the third requirement.

ERISA’s requirements, on the other hand, might be a little more difficult to overcome. The law preempts any state laws that “relate to” employee health benefit plans, either in their administration or structure. The federal government tried to make these preemptions as broad as possible, in hopes of creating one universal American health coverage law to keep insurance companies from having to follow fifty different sets of laws. Because of this, writing a state law that circumvents ERISA can be difficult. Multiple states have seen their regulations overturned, while others—Massachusetts, for one—simply wrote their healthcare laws into their tax policy.

Trump has said before he thinks that health is a state rather than Federal issue. So fine, give the states the freedom to experiment with various models. It's deregulation. Its state's rights. What's there not for a Gooper to like?

Once the Federal shackles come off, Progressives can target various states for implementation. It's basically the medical marijuana strategy but taken to another level.

Click this link to see a great position paper on state single payer. It's worth a full read.

America may or may not join the rest of the industrialized world by eventually implementing a federal single-payer system. But for now it’s not happening, and given the ACA’s third rail status, other major federal healthcare reforms appear unlikely in the foreseeable future. But at the state level, where legislatures regularly enact laws that would be unthinkable at the federal level, Vermont led the way and provided all of its citizens with healthcare. Though state-provided healthcare systems have some comparative weaknesses, they seem more possible now than ever and could provide a transition step before federal reform.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Strife Delivery's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger I don't know about individual states doing single payer though.

It is one thing when a nation does it since they have their own currency with which to continue to print funds if necessary. But states are forced to have a balance sheet.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

A vote on a referendum on a flawed plan failed thanks to a Hillbot governor who didn't want to undermine Obamacare any further. See also Fed regs problem.

people in red states like me would be hosed.

Like you're not getting hosed now?

We need to start thinking more creatively about this. Clinging to the pipe dream of Federal single payer is not realistic in this political environment. Need to try something else unless you want to wait another twenty years for the Federal stars to align for some half assed corporate insurance scam to be rammed down our throats again.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Wink's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Daenerys's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger people in red states like me would be hosed. UDoT can't even build roads right here. Not sure if Utah is one of the states Molina is pulling out of. I really, really hope I'm wrong and Trump actually does something useful with it.

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This shit is bananas.

One might use caution in celebrating the demise of Obamacare - because it will certainly have major negative impacts on millions. Since poverty is, disgracefully, one of the strongest health predictors, the collapse in Obamacare will result in millions of early deaths as well as poorer quality of life for those without access to medical care.

Yes, Obamacare was terribly flawed. And yes, Obama caved to pharma and the insurance kleptocracy. And Democrats in Congress never put it to te Republicans - "Do you or do you not support basic, affordable healthcare as a right for all Americans? Yes or no." If no, then Dems should not have even tried to work with them, For the few that said yes, then there might have been some room for negotiation.

Of course, the Dems can't exactly do much negotiating right now, eh?
(As if they ever could.)

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Rather take drugs and under go chemo than change their diet. Lazy mans way of health care.

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

@the_poorly_educated This wreaks of being classist and anti-science. There are a large number of diseases that don't necessarily respond to diet therapy and yoga. I don't disagree that we have a major health crisis which is in part, rooted in nutrition, but let's not get carried away.

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Daenerys's picture

@the_poorly_educated with your woo nonsense already.

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This shit is bananas.

@the_poorly_educated I beg your pardon?

I presume you have never had cancer or similar conditions. Not all diseases are caused by bad diet/living/morality etc. Ruth Carter Stapleton - Jimmy Carter's sister - died from pancreatic cancer in her 50s. Given her evangelical background, her faith, and her work in healing, I doubt she drank, smoked, or chowed down on McDonalds - but she died young all the same.

Many premodern religious traditions blame illness on the person who is sick - most famously, leprosy. I believe that such a view is hardly compassionate and only adds more suffering on top of what the person is already going through. New Age spiritualism has a strong streak of this blame-the-sick-person attitude.

There is little doubt that modern medicine has eliminated or largely eliminated many horrific diseases - smallpox, polio, measles, and leprosy, too. Cancer treatments are difficult for the patient and expensive, but they do save or prolong lives with many types of cancer. Kale and kudzu don't.

YMMV - It's your thing - but don't make your thing mine.

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@Jamawani Not only did Ruth succumb to it, but so did his other sister, his brother, and his father.

It's amazing Jimmy survived cancer considering what it did to his family.

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Daenerys's picture

@Jamawani or a fucking idiot. It's just as bad as anti-vaxxers and people who pray rather than take their kid to the doctor when they get sick. Dangerous.

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This shit is bananas.

Strife Delivery's picture

@the_poorly_educated I'm certain that kale smoothie I had will help my ruptured spleen in a car accident.

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@the_poorly_educated @the_poorly_educated

Would be nice if there was a safe food supply, safe water, safe air, safe products and a living wage and social safety net to assure everyone of the base for a healthy lifestyle.

But the official placement of corporate/industry profits before human, animal and environmental health assures that none of this can exist in America or, now, anywhere in th world, regardless of established protective law, to whatever extent it existed in various countries.

And 'exhausted, impoverished and unable to obtain nutritious food' does not equal 'lazy'.

http://www.mintpressnews.com/california-using-recycled-fracking-water-to...

California Using Recycled Fracking Water To Irrigate Crops

By MintPress News Desk | July 9, 2015

REDDING, California — California’s governor, a recipient of generous donations from the oil and gas industry, is now responsible for putting dangerous “frack water” into the American food supply.

As California struggles with a historic drought, some farmers in California’s agriculturally fertile Central Valley turned to a water recycling program, allowing them to irrigate their crops at a fraction of the normal cost. According to Phys.org, the recycled water costs about $33 per square foot, while freshwater could cost as much as $1,500 for the same amount.

The recycled water, which was used on some 45,000 acres of farmland, came from fracking wells, and recent water testing found some dangerous chemicals remain even after treatment. Chevron submitted the results of its water tests on Monday, according to Julie Cart, an environmental reporter for the Los Angeles Times:

(List follows, at source)

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/17/california-farmers-rely-oil-wastewate...

U.S.
In California, Farmers Rely on Oil Wastewater to Weather Drought
By Zoë Schlanger On 4/6/15 at 6:54 AM

... That’s where Chevron comes in. For every barrel of oil Chevron produces in its Kern River oil field, another 10 barrels of salty wastewater come up with it. So Chevron is selling about 500,000 barrels of water per day, or 21 million gallons, back to the Cawelo Water District—the local water district that delivers water to farmers within a seven-mile slice of Kern County—at an undisclosed amount, but “essentially ‘at cost,’” according to Chevron spokesman Cameron Van Ast. In a time when freshwater in the Central Valley is selling at up to 10 times the typical cost, it’s a good deal for farmers.

The wastewater Chevron is selling flows, without municipal treatment (though the oil products are removed), to 90 local farmers who spread it on their citrus, nut and grape crops. The Cawelo Water District might first mix the wastewater with freshwater, or it might not, depending on what crop the wastewater will be used on—and on how much freshwater is available at the time. In the midst of a drought, there is less freshwater, so the water the farmers get is saltier than in a wet year. But the farmers understand that using the salty wastewater on their crops is an emergency measure. If all goes as planned, when the rains come back the excess salt will be flushed through the soil. ...

http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Toxic%20Waste%20As%20F...

Killing Fields? Toxic waste being spread as fertilizer
BY DUFF WILSON
Seattle Times
(reprinted in the San Jose Mercury News 7-5-97, front page)

QUINCY, Wash. — Some farmers blamed the weather for their lousy wheat crops, stunted corn and sick cows. Some blamed themselves.
But only after Patty Martin, the mayor of this small, dusty town 100 miles east of Seattle, led them in weeks of investigation did they identify a possible new culprit: fertilizer.
They don't have proof that the stuff they put on their land to feed it actually was killing it. But they discovered something they think other American farmers and consumers ought to know:
Manufacturing industries are disposing of hazardous wastes by turning them into fertilizer to spread around farms. And they're doing it legally.
"They just call dangerous waste a product, and it's no longer a dangerous waste," Martin said. "It's fertilizer."
An investigation by the Seattle Times has found the practice occurs around the country. Industrial toxic waste is being used increasingly as a fertilizer ingredient.
There is no conclusive data to prove the practice poses any risks, and none to prove its safety.
Experts disagree on the risks and say further study is needed. However, little study is under way.
As things stand now, any material that has fertilizing qualities can be labeled and used as a fertilizer, even if it contains dangerous chemicals and heavy metals.
The wastes come from iron, zinc and aluminum smelting, mining, cement kilns, the burning of medical and municipal wastes, wood-product slurries and other heavy industries.
Across the Columbia River basin from Quincy, in the town of Moxee City, Wash., a dark powder from two Oregon steel mills is poured from rail cars into the top of a silo attached to Bay Zinc Co., under a federal permit to store hazardous waste.
The powder, a toxic byproduct of the steel-making process, is taken out of the bottom of the silos as a raw material for fertilizer.
"When it goes into our silo, it's a hazardous waste," said Bay Zinc President Dick Camp. "When it comes out of the silo, it's no longer regulated. The exact same material. Don't ask me why. That's the wisdom of the (Environmental Protection Agency)." ...

There are endless and long-running examples, as well as new exposures less well understood and others which may not be mentioned, being 'confidential business information'. But a general idea of past practices in a time when corruption had not perhaps so entirely permeated all levels of protective agencies can be found here.

http://www.williamsanjour.name/main.htm

Collected Papers of William Sanjour

After 30 years at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency I finally retired in June 2001. Before my retirement I decided to try to gather all the things I have written about EPA and my experience as a whistleblower in one place. With my retirement I continued to write on subjects of interest to me and in 2013 I wrote my memoirs titled "FROM THE FILES OF A WHISTLEBLOWER, Or how EPA was captured by the industry it regulated."

Includes many gems, such as:

2003

October 17, The Death of Capitalism. An essay/review of "Trust Us, We’re Experts" written at the suggestion of one of the authors, John Stauber. It gave me the opportunity explain my theory of how capitalism is destroying capitalism. Stauber loved it, a feeling not shared by any of the periodicals I sent it to. Posted May 10, 2005

THE DEATH OF CAPITALISM

by William Sanjour

October 17, 2003

Capitalism – market economy – free enterprise – these are the jewels in the crown of civilization which, since the renaissance, have brought unprecedented wealth, prosperity and freedom to large parts of the world. Capitalism has struggled and eventually triumphed over its historical adversaries; in earlier times, popes and kings and in our time socialism and communism. In the 21st century, since the collapse of the Berlin Wall, international corporate capitalism is bursting, like fireworks, in triumph; merging, globalizing and buying governments. What puny opposition remains is easily dispatched with a broad range of powerful weapons which have been developed over the years. Today the only real threat to capitalism is capitalism!

Socialists may practice socialism and Christians may practice Christianity but if by capitalism we mean a competitive market driven economic system, then capitalists do not practice capitalism. Theorists notwithstanding, capitalism is not an ideology, it is merely a description. Capitalists are not trying to implement some philosophy, they are only trying to make a buck any way they can. To a capitalist the biggest enemy is not socialism or labor unions or liberals or environmentalists, or even big government, the biggest enemy is risk. Risk of not making money. Risk of losing money.

Making money and avoiding risk in doing so is what capitalism is all about. But it is precisely in the risk taking that society draws its benefits from capitalism. That is the dilemma. Risk promotes wise investment resulting in efficiency, innovation and the creation of wealth, not just for the capitalist but for society as a whole. But a lot of capitalists fall by the wayside in the process. It is in the capitalist’s interest to eliminate risk and society’s interest to prevent them from doing so. The way to avoid risk is to control the market and to do that they must also control the government. This struggle has been going on for hundreds of years: capitalists forming monopolies, oligarchies and trusts and society breaking them up. ...

And:

October 1, The 1978-79 Sludge War. Because of the recently revived interest in sewage sludge I have decided to memorialize the sludge battles in which I was involved in 1978-79 during the early days of RCRA. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Posted 10/5/99.

http://www.williamsanjour.name/Sludge3.htm

The 1978-79 Sludge War
by
William Sanjour
October 1, 1999

Because of the recently revived interest in sewage sludge I have decided to memorialize the sludge battles in which I was involved in 1978-79 during the early days of RCRA.

Keep in mind that the purpose of a sewage treatment plant is to capture the toxic substances and other bad stuff in sewage and to concentrate it in the sludge. To start with, let me give you an idea of the kind of pressure EPA was (and is) under to try to find some use for the millions of tons of sewage sludge being and expected to be emitted by the waste water treatment plants funded by the EPA Construction Grants Program, the largest public works project ever in America. Here is a quote from a letter written by the Seattle Sewer District to EPA in 1974(1) in response to the Agency's then proposed guidance on "Methods for the Utilization or Disposal of Sludges". This was written long before RCRA and is typical of the kind of pressure exerted then and still being exerted on EPA.

The limits suggested for the metal content of sludges will not allow many large cities to use sludge for agriculture unless the metal content is reduced. If metals are removed at the source, it will represent a large cost to industry and ultimately to the consumer. There will be a demand on the natural resources for the chemicals needed to remove the metals, and there will be chemical and metal sludge to dispose of. If a cost benefit analysis is carried out, it would appear doubtful that the value of using sludge in agriculture could equal the costs. The proposed guidelines would appear to favor landfill or incineration.

Municipal sewage treatment agencies and their allies in the engineering, construction and fertilizer business dominated the policy of EPA's Construction Grants Program and that policy was to remove any impediments to the flow of federal money into the construction and operation of new sewage treatment plants. I saw an illustration of that domination when I attended a meeting of a panel of the EPA Science Advisory Board in 1976 to evaluate a proposed Technical Bulletin concerned with the health effects of using sewage sludge as fertilizer on crops. The EPA Science Advisory Board has a reputation for scientific objectivity which was not evidenced in this meeting. The Chairman was the former head of the Chicago Sanitary District and the originator of Chicago's sludge utilization program. In his opening remarks(2) he railed against the "negative nature of the Technical Bulletin" and said "there would not be a municipal official that would dare to approve land disposal in the form that report was proposed for our review". His bottom line was "you wouldn't even get favorable interest rates on your municipal bonds". The panel then proceeded to blast the Technical Bulletin without ever considering the human heath effects of sludge utilization. As a result, the bulletin was revised so as to be toothless. So much for science. ...

... In fact sewage sludge contains very little in the way of nutrients relative to commercial fertilizers, so much so that some sanitary districts add nitrogen to their sludge in order to give it away(10). Furthermore, many instances of land farming industrial wastes were known at the time(11).

The draft standards prepared by my office(12) limited the arsenic, cadmium and lead which can be applied as soil amendments made from hazardous waste. At the intra-agency meeting to review these draft standards the Water Office objected that the regulations for arsenic, cadmium and lead may set a dangerous precedent for the Section 405 (i.e. sludge) regulations(13).

By September, everyone involved recognized the futility of resisting the sludge juggernaut -- everyone but me, that is. I was finally instructed by Gary Dietrich, Jorling's hatchet man, to weaken the standards for land farming hazardous industrial waste to the comfort level of the Water Office, regardless of the consequences to human health(14) And the consequences of this cruel decision were indeed far ranging and severe as not only sewage sludge but raw industrial hazardous waste is "recycled" into fertilizer to this day(15). Eight days after this decision I was canned(16).

Different people handled the defeat in different ways. I became a whistleblower(17). My ex-boss, Jack Lehman, consoled himself with the knowledge that there was a potential medical treatment for the people we were poisoning(18). And Bob Tonetti wrote the definitive letter to the Washington Post(19).

The Environmental Protection Agency is in need of being told not to waste hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars. I believe the problem to be mismanagement. You judge:

The clean Water Act requires EPA to develop regulations for the disposal of sewage sludge. The agency is already six months--and could be another 18 months--late in meeting the act's mandate. Meanwhile, cities such as New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angeles and many others venture on with development of local sludge programs. When EPA finally completes its regulations, many of these programs may be found inadequate particularly those that distribute sludge for homeowner use as mulch or soil conditioner.

More than two years ago, the General Accounting Office requested that EPA provide "immediate" guidance on sludge distributed to the general public because of "potential health hazards." This guidance has not yet been provided.

Highly contaminated back-yard soils have now been found In Chicago, where sludge was used as a mulch. Thousands of Chicago-area back yards have been contaminated in a program that continued for one year following GAO 's warning to EPA. Many similar programs are still ongoing nationwide--without restriction.

The position of EPA's construction grants program has been the biggest factor in the delay of the sludge regulations. Construction grants provide funding for the planning, design and construction of sewage-treatment plants. These are the plants generating the sludge that another part of EPA, the Office of Solid Waste, has responsibility for regulating.

Since 1973, construction grants have provided cities some $22 billion, of which sludge systems take up no small portion. The grants program has assisted the cities so well, it's often hard to tell the regulators from the regulated.

This "industry's" influence was primarily responsible for the exemption of municipal sludge from EPA's proposed hazardous-waste regulations. The exemption will apply even though some sludges contaminated with industrial wastes can be quite hazardous.

The construction-grants program should not be capable of so strongly influencing other offices in EPA that are charged with regulating certain aspects of sewage treatment and disposal. Perhaps the grants program should be set in some corner of EPA where this influence could not be exerted. Or, maybe placed in another agency altogether. (Please not the Army Corps of Engineers.)

ROBERT TONETTI
Burtonsville, Md.
(The writer is an employee of the Office of Solid Waste at the Environmental Protection Agency.)

We are continually inundated in industrial toxins; no wonder industry 'science and 'life-style scientists' were so beloved of complicit governments for so very, very long that now even a number of us unthinkingly frame our poisoned-for-profit health situation in their terms...

Edit: I do agree that good nutrition and exercise are essential for optimum health, but transferring liability/blame to the victim is a very old and very evil polluting industry tactic used to avoid regulation enforcing safer processes, products and restricting pollution and the payment of medical costs, compensation or pensions to those they injured or bereaved in the pursuit of maximized profits.

This also being adopted by multiple governments following WW2 to avoid having to recompense expediently/experimentally exposed military, war workers, the general public and even groups of school-children to substances known to be deadly upon inhalation/exposure, including radon/radiation, asbestos and damaging petrochemicals, (as well as the effects of combusted fossil fuel/industrial air and other then-uncontrolled pollution not specifically related to war-time efforts) having often long-delayed effects which could potentially be re-attributed to other causes for which they would not be held responsible or obliged to respond to down the road.

The wave of predominately respiratory/heart disease resulting among the exposed through ensuing decades was entirely predictable - yet such expedient/profit-driven toxic exposures continue to be 'acceptable', if at typically less obvious levels, nonetheless still causing avoidable disease now more comprehensively denied by the industry 'science' officially used.

Hey, cool - what I'm replying to is showing at bottom now, rather than the OP!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

business. Instead, insurance companies are putting Obamacare out of business.

Obamacare = Romneycare on steroids.

Romneycare = Billarycare

Billarycare = HeritageFoundationCare

HeritageFoundationCare = response of conservatives in Jackson Hole, Wyoming to Nixoncare.

Almost a half century later, Democrats gave us a health insurance plan that is worse for individuals than Nixon tried to give us. Whooptiefrickindo.

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@HenryAWallace nice connecting down to root cause, you radical. Heh.

Statement on Signing the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973

IT IS with great pleasure that I today sign into law S. 14, the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973. This legislation will enable the Federal Government to help demonstrate the feasibility of the HMO concept over the next 5 years.

Expanding the geographic distribution of health maintenance organizations is an integral part of the National Health Strategy that I first proposed nearly 3 years ago. S. 14 is somewhat broader than the Administration's proposal, but it nevertheless contains the essential concepts and principles that I support. It will provide initial Federal development assistance for a limited number of demonstration projects, with the intention that they become self-sufficient within fixed periods.

The national health insurance bill that I will be submitting to the next session of this Congress will allow patients to use such insurance to join HMO's. For that reason, it is particularly important that this demonstration effort get underway immediately and build upon the momentum which has already been achieved in this field.
...

New and Improved! Bloody Obama version: https://www.healthforcalifornia.com/covered-california/health-insurance-companies/kaiser

Find Affordable Kaiser Permanente Health Insurance through the California Health Exchange

Kaiser Permanente is the oldest and largest HMO (Health Maintenance Organization) in the United States, serving nine states and the District of Columbia. Its largest membership base in California with over 8 million, many of which being Covered California Kaiser plans. Kaiser has sought to lead the way in the health care model on many fronts. Its integrated delivery of care is what makes it so unique. A patient’s care is coordinated and connected all within one system from the beginning to the end. This can include but is not limited to an office visit, lab work, treatment, disease management, and in-patient procedure to recovery.

Blah blah blah, just don't be mental. California does suck, for being THE Neo-lib ATM far too long. Help? Bueller?

PEACE

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@eyo

http://caucus99percent.com/content/why-america-got-obamacare-not-nixoncare

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BernieOrBust's picture

Hey Everybody, I know the ACA sucks. We wanted/needed Single Payer. Obama and the Dems SERIOUSLY sold us out on this. Big ins sucks and is run as a criminal enterprise with money and not people in mind, etc, etc, etc...... With all that said, there is another side to the story....and that is the side of MILLIONS of people who now get care, that previously did not. It might be crappy, or expensive care, but it's better than nothing, and those people are going to be very, very hurt by not having health ins, or Medicaid. I have Cushings. It's quite rare, and usually a benign tumor on the pituitary gland. Sounds easy enough, but it's not. The average patient sees 10 or more doctors over an 8 year period before being believed and/or diagnosed. It's extremely common to take 20, and even 30 tests, some of which are done in the hospital under full anesthesia, to get accurately diagnosed. It's a bastard, tricky mother of a disease for many of us. There is a big FB page for Cushings people, and I am increasingly seeing comments from "veterans" such as myself to "newbies" to "GET YOUR TESTING DONE NOW!!!!" "Try to get diagnosed and surgery done NOW!!!!" Because all of us have a "pre-existing condition" and will be uninsurable potentially in the next 1-2 years. Or the folks who depend on Medicaid, may totall be up shit creek soon. Cushings doesn't kill immediately, but it is emotionally and physically debilitating, and many of us become bedridden while trying to get diagnosed. So please don't feel too much "I told you so", or "glee" at Obama's signature policy taking the plunge. Real lives are at risk here. Be angry, advocate, but don't hope the ACA dies until there is a real replacement, or so very many people with so very many weirdo and not so weird diseases will die, and/or suffer needlessly. I'm lucky, I kept my individual $1089.00/mo grandfathered, HIPPA BC PPO plan because it's WAY better than the ACA plans. I kept it partly because I have kick-ass coverage, and I need that, but also because I was worried when Obama left office things might crumble. Most people are not so fortunate to have done so, or to have had the funds to do so. Anywho, have an open and loving heart, please. Those of us who do not enjoy great energy and health need health ins. For many, the ACA being annihilated will be a death warrant, and/or make their lives very difficult. Thank you.

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Daenerys's picture

@BernieOrBust if they get rid of that part. Almost everyone I know has something that would be considered a 'pre-existing condition'. Then what will the insurance companies do? Do they even think things through? Oh wait....

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This shit is bananas.

@BernieOrBust thanks for including your experience. I fully supported the ACA, had that silly certificate signed by Obama on display, until it was implemented.

The first thing rolled out at my Health Center was ... robots! They bought an IVR (Integrated Voice Response) phone system and re-purposed the people to other tasks. Maybe that is fine and good for general health issues, but mental health? Nope. Instead of an actual person answering the line, a robot says "If this is a mental health emergency, please hang up and dial 911". How's that for service? I won't give too much detail, but "pill mill" is descriptive, as far as what became offerings for "treatment" after the ACA kicked in. I can't even afford my doctor's rate, it shot to $400 an hour and her bill time-slices were reduced to 10 minutes each. She never realized the cost of anything she prescribed, no prices attached to the digitized records. Twice I took 'scripts I can't afford to the pharmacy, now I don't even bother going to the doctor anymore. Too expensive, for nothing in return.

Her final words: "I couldn't stand the pain."

Still I totally agree that is has helped millions of people, my neighbor for one, a low-income immigrant from Mexico, raised her two boys here they are both LEOs now, all good people. Until MediCaid expansion here in California she suffered a lot with stomach troubles, has since received great care at the local Health Center, got well, and passed the citizenship test, thanks goodness she doesn't have to worry so much about traveling and such. We are all one people, insurance companies don't give a fuck for any, as far as I can tell.

PEACE

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@BernieOrBust

anyway.

One of the reasons for fighting for Medicare for All is that repealing it would have been very difficult.

But, we lost that fight before Obama was inaugurated for the first time. He campaigned on a strong public option. Had he not abandoned that promise, scolding the left for trying to hold him to it, insurance companies would have had to compete or go out of business, hopefully with the government hiring most of their employees to operate Obamacare. Had that happened, no one would have been able to repeal it.

As it is, what got passed was easy to attack and therefore easy to repeal.

On this, and other things, Obama wasted a huge opportunity.

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