didn't see an open thread, so here is this: i'm pushing back at kos...

i'm getting pounded in the comments so far too...

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/8/1498143/-Kos-Orders-Sun-to-Set-...

Here's the text in full for those not over there:

This started out as a comment in kos’s latest attempt at clarity, but I think it needs a bit more fleshing out. I can understand the want and appeal for unity, but trying to force it is going to have (and is already having) some (likely) unintended consequences.

Sure, the pundits and the Hillary campaign’s supporters really really would like it to be done with after March 15th, but that’s not an accurate date for stoppage. We Bernie supporters look at numbers too and we know that almost all of Hillary’s strongest states will have voted by then. However, it’s the states coming after that that are best for Bernie, and where, if he can, he will make up ground and possibly take the lead. It may well be up for grabs all the way til June. *At some point yes, the math may turn, but that point is not in mid March — not even close*. Calling it March 15th gives rise to some pretty big problems.

First and foremost, it fosters enmity between the supporters of the opposition factions. Yes, there is already enmity, but by forcing one side out of its vigorous campaign stance before their campaign is actually dead is asking for even more resentment of the candidate who benefits. If anything, it will foster a rise in PUMAs instead of actual unity, and really, if Hillary is the nominee, she’s gonna need all the help and unity she can get. The last thing she needs is more angry partisans refusing to vote for her in a general, but that is effect the forcibly shutting down the primary here will have.

i understand that kos doesn’t want Hillary picked apart anymore after that cuz it might hurt her, but honestly, if what is said here can actually hurt her, it worries me even more about a general. She should be able to take whatever the left gives her cuz the right will come at her stronger and a lot more recklessly. Lobbing bombs that are malicious *and* unfounded shouldn’t be allowed here in the first place, but there are plenty of criticisms that seem like bombs to her supporters (and kos) that are grounded in reality and should be lobbed. It’s a primary and we as lefties should want to have the best candidate — one who can handle the criticisms from the left. That’s what primaries are for ffs. Letting us all have our shot at democracy should be what we strive for; it can make us all the stronger for it in the end.

Second, calling an end to the primaries prematurely also gives the right wing a lot more time to act. Not knowing who they will be running against and having to somewhat prepare for two *very different* candidates means they are having to do a lot of oppo for longer and can’t uniformly deploy against a single candidate. If we give them the gift of letting it be over, they get a few extra months of flooding the airwaves with memes and lies and distortions, when repeated over and over will become believed. It’s always said that Hillary has taken everything the right has thrown at her and she has; however, she hasn’t run in a general against them yet and they will be bringing out all the stops. Why give them lead time? Tactically, it makes more sense to keep them off their game as long as we can. In previous years, when we were more unified in general, it may have been good tactics to unify early, but I think there are very few people left that think this year is anything like previous years. The conventional wisdom is a relic nowadays; operate using it at your own risk.

In short, I think this premature calling of the primaries can backfire on us badly and for the life of me I can’t understand why anyone would want to risk that outcome. It does less for unity and more for division, and it’s a gift to the right. They always liked to say that the left is a circular firing squad and calling the primaries this election year just after March 15th is a perfect example of that. Let’s not be that example.

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pfiore8's picture

very good points ... and i loved the title.

i have to stop going over there. i just do it to find ways to piss people off. i know it's not right, but keyrist, these fools don't seem to have a grasp on reality outside of dKos.

crazy. hey, anybody seen Meteor Blades there? I saw he put up an essay yesterday then it was deleted and haven't seen him since.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

gulfgal98's picture

are published every day between 8 and 9 am Eastern time. The reason you did not see one is that we have so many great new people here and they are writing their hearts out so hecate's wonderful Open Thread has fallen far down. Also the Evening Blues functions as an evening open thread too. It's good to see you here, poligirl! Smile

Just sent over there and rec'd it and commented. I thought it was very well constructed diary but it seems to me that Markos and many of the Clinton supporters over there do not believe in democracy.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mimi's picture

just for the OTs and the EBs and other regularly posted series essays, as there are so many other diaries now that it takes some searching for them by folks who are not here since a long time and are overlooked ?
May be it will calm down in a while.

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poligirl's picture

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detroitmechworks's picture

They've made it VERY clear that the people who run it have no interest in an open discussion forum.

At this point, I've got good writing to do with people who appreciate it.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Canos, Knud, Knos...Kos!

Good one!

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Shaylors Provence

Unabashed Liberal's picture

use more than one.

Thanks!

(Music City) Mollie at DKos
elinkarlsson@WordPress


"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."--Japanese Proverb
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Big Al's picture

I've made this case before about who you run with. If Kos is a democrat, why the hell would I want to be a democrat. I know it's a big tent, but look who running the tent? A bunch of assholes. NO way do I want to be associated with them, it's no different than being associated with Trump and his supporters. No, this 99% thing ain't gonna work. Those of us that know what we want can't compromise like that. I understand the symbolism of the 99% and this blog's name, but in the end, there will be no unity among the 99%, only among those that have similar goals.
Kos and his blog and the Dem party are my opposition, they're in the way.

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Cassiodorus's picture

at what Kos actually said:

There is ambiguity between what is legitimate criticism of Clinton from the left, and what is a right-wing or destructive malicious attack. I get that. Language can be imprecise, and perspective matters. One person’s freedom fighter is another’s terrorist. So here’s one way to think about it: intent.

If your goal is to make Clinton a better candidate and president, that’s allowed. Constructive criticism falls under that rubric. If your goal is to sabotage Clinton, then that won’t be allowed.

So what is Clinton to become better at as a candidate and as a President? Telling us what we want to hear while throwing us under the bus? "Dear Hillary: the quality of your pandering is too low. Make some promises that actually make us feel better -- you know, ones that don't remind us of your support for the Crime Bill, the Welfare Bill, and Kissingerian foreign policy." Listening to us intently ("oh she's such a good listener!") before planning our eventual disposal? "Dear Hillary: maybe you could show a few signs that you agree with us before we are completely screwed." Clinton has her agenda, and to the extent we won't like it, she keeps it secret.

So what counts as constructive criticism of Clinton again?

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Amanda Matthews's picture

If you can't lay $250,000 down on the table before you even open your mouth she's not going to listen to you anyway.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

JayRaye's picture

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

Pat K California's picture

Sigh. I tipped and recommended you, poligirl, at the GOS. Then I read through the comments and wished I hadn't made the trip. Nothing that you wrote seemed to make a dent. They really don't see the point you were trying to make. Or won't see. Personally, I agree with you ... I can see many advantages to be gained by letting the primaries play themselves out unimpeded. After all, minds can still change. But the kicker for me is: will primary turn out and new voter totals remain high once there's no one left to vote for but Clinton? I kinda doubt it.

I'm glad I'm here now at c99p. Don't feel the least bit welcome Over There anymore. Heh ... never have done well in dictatorial environments.

So, I'm letting the ol' GOS go. And I trust that no one Over Here will ever refer to me as a "fucking moron"!

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"Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.

Much nicer here.

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