The day the Dem party lost the 2020 Presidential race--and both houses of Congress
We could sing along with the "Day the Democrat Party died" to the tune of the Day the Music died. Such cacophony and lemming-like stampede to the edge of oblivion. If I were a rational demonrat, then I wouldn't be perturbed by the following diatribe. But of course, the only rational Dem is Tulsi (I don't know enough about Mike Gravel to comment about him--but he hasn't got a chance in the race. But now, thanks to a suicidal vote in Debacle Debate number 2, The Dims have assured themselves of three things
1. El Trumpo remains the Orange Man-in chief
2. Repugnants solidify their hold on the Senate and send Nervous Nancy to minority status, which she so richly deserves (pun intended)
3. The Democrat party Whiggifies itself. Going, going....
Yes, dear fans of politics and nastiness of other sorts, the Dems are grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory (as if they had a chance). They are adept at this who can forget the spirited campaigns of Al Hanging Chad Gore and John Kerry? Oops. Many of you have already suppressed those two firebrands going down to defeat like kittens being tossed into the ocean.
The focus of their suicidal one-way run for the cliffs from which they will throw themselves onto the rocks of reality is immigration. Do these Dumb F's really think Americans want to pay the medical bills of illegals when citizens often cannot get adequate medical care for themselves and family? Oh, virtue-signaling be praised! We shall provide for those illegally here but not for our own.
By a show of hands, the round two Klowns indicated their desires to rest in the ash-pit of history.
During the second Democrat presidential primary debate on Thursday, every Democrat candidate said they supported giving American taxpayer-funded healthcare to all 11 to 22 million illegal aliens living in the United States.
When asked by NBC News anchors whether their healthcare plans would provide taxpayer-funded free healthcare to all illegal aliens, all 10 Democrats raised their hands in support of the initiative.
Already, Americans pay about $116 billion to subsidize illegal aliens living in the U.S. — providing them with free education, free healthcare, and public benefits.
Today, American taxpayers pay nearly $20 billion for free healthcare for illegal aliens, according to estimates from analysts at the Center for Health Policy and Inequalities Research at Duke University.
Everyday Americans care nothing about Russiagate--that is an obsession of the elites and incontrovertible Hillbots. Amongst the things they care about is the southern invasion of our country by people who mostly come here for economic betterment. But this begets the Tragedy of the Commons
The tragedy of the commons is a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action. The theory originated in an essay written in 1833 by the British economist William Forster Lloyd, who used a hypothetical example of the effects of unregulated grazing on common land (also known as a "common") in Great Britain and Ireland.[1] The concept became widely known as the "tragedy of the commons" over a century later due to an article written by the American ecologist and philosopher Garrett Hardin in 1968.[2] In this modern economic context, commons is taken to mean any shared and unregulated resource such as atmosphere, oceans, rivers, fish stocks, roads and highways, or even an office refrigerator.
The Dems sucking on a cyanide capsule, awaiting the fatal hiccup which won't be long in coming. I pray to the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pasta be his name) that a sudden jolt of trismus (jaw spasm) will crush that capsule and be done with the whole sorry lot.
In the meantime, dear fellow swampers and those who prefer remaining dry, I await the entrance of her majesty, the Future Queen of Hades, to enter the race, sweeping all before her away into political nothingness. Tulsi will bolt the Dems the moment that happens. Although Tulsi may drop out of the race, knowing correctly that she will be cheated a la Bernie, she might start a third party. You can't keep a good woman down--Tulsi I obviously mean.
Comments
You're probably right that a majority of americans
will object to the formulation.
Because, unfortunately, most americans are xenophobic ignoramuses, unaware that most analyses demonstrate pretty clearly that "illegal immigrants" contribute at least as much to the economy as they take out of it. Whether that would be true in the context of, say, medicare for all, is hard to know, especially if the accounting is done according to "the market" and the dollars that "the market" uses to allocate value. Since illegal immigrants generally do work that is grossly underpaid, they may be unlikely to pay enough in taxes to cover the market-accounted costs of such healthcare as they currently receive.
Regardless, your argument depends on an assumption that millions of American voters are so stupid and lacking in imagination that they would vote against a proposal to completely alter the healthcare system, based on a shortcoming of the current system. "Wait! This new system that would guarantee sufficient healthcare for all Americans would include people who are in the country illegally? That's outrageous ... why, the old system doesn't even take care of people who are here legally!"
It makes about as much sense as someone saying, "Wait! This new system will provide healthcare to people without jobs?!?! That's outrageous ... why the old system doesn't even take care of people with jobs!"
Sadly, you're probably right -- there probably are millions of voters who are that stupid and lacking in imagination. I'm not sure, though, that I'm interested in voting for politicians who cater to that kind of unimaginative stupidity.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Okay, show me the math.
"unaware that most analyses demonstrate pretty clearly that "illegal immigrants" contribute at least as much to the economy as they take out of it.
Because I just don't see it. They can't even support themselves without public assistance.
And don't give me vague platitudes. It is not uncommon for immigrant families to live in housing that is meant for single families. So, their wages are so poor, that they can't even afford to live in their own apartment. In addition, they usually have multiple kids.
And don't bring in issues like underpayment, because that issue applies to all of us, and not just illegals.
So, show us the math.
dfarrah
there's that odd buzzing sound again ...
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Can you provide some numbers or not?
If you can't, then maybe you ought to quit making statements that appear absurd on their face.
Because I am not seeing how people who use assistance for housing and food alone (without even bringing in medical costs or education)could possibly be contributing "more" than what they use. Further, these people might be able to get earned income tax credits (I'm not sure how this would work for illegals - but everyone says that they pay taxes, and I assume they include income taxes), so they may not even pay income taxes at all.
dfarrah
Illegal immigrants net positive impact
Google it. There are dozens of peer reviewed economic studies cited over the years that show up. Try it. It would cost the US more to remove the undocumented than might be saved by not educating their kids. But, the majority of Americans rarely vote their own self interest - we can all agree on that much.
Giovanni Perri at UC Davis
Has published a bunch on this for starters.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
George Borjas at Harvard reviewed the literature
https://sites.hks.harvard.edu/fs/gborjas/publications/popular/CIS2013.pdf
The economists -- whatever one may think of the "dismal science" -- find that undocumented persons provide a small net positive effect for the U.S. economy.
More like tiny, per the article.
The article you linked to is fairly unfavorable. I wouldn't use it to support an argument for illegal immigration. It specifically cites some research that says immigrants drive wages down.
From the article:
The immigration surplus or benefit to natives created by illegal immigrants is estimated at around $9 billion a year or 0.06 percent of GDP — six one-hundredths of 1 percent.
dfarrah
Well, I looked up
Giovanni Peri.
Here is some fluff from him that can be filed under, "correlation does not mean causation."
https://research.ucdavis.edu/migration-research-cluster/
But I'll check out some more.
dfarrah
“Peer reviewed economic studies” *sounds* good — except that
economics is hardly a genuine science. It’s more like an arena of competing ideologies that has tried to award itself the prestige and mantle of science, by such ploys as creating a fake “Nobel prize” for economics, knowing that most people would confuse it with the original Nobel prizes covering the physical sciences.
Ok. But, people keep asking for numbers. n/t
The numbers produced,
as in the 'studies' above, simply are not believable.
I might be able to believe that they could provide a small net positive; however, I don't even know how that would happen.
They typically don't make enough to even cover their own living expenses. If they are cash basis or under the table employees, it is highly likely they pay no income tax.
Additionally, there is a huge amount sent back to their home countries, which also drains the US.
I'll check out the studies, though.
dfarrah
Money sent to home countries
According to this article in Fast Company, $429 billion was sent out of the country in 2016. It's hard to see how that benefits the U.S. economy, even if you ignore the multiplier effect.
Not to mention that
science overall has come under the gun for studies that can't be replicated.
dfarrah
This is fascinating.
You demand scientific data. (It's going to be social science. There's no way around it.) Then you dismiss it because it fails to conform to your preconceptions.
If you think about it you might find a similarity between your approach and that of the climate change deniers.
we used to say it is a soft science, not a hard science
like physics or chemistry.I wouldn't call economists' research as non-genuine. YMMV.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I'll be happy to read the links
provided.
But does 'google it' really even work anymore, given the censorship in favor of the left?
dfarrah
I do not think you know
what left means. But I don't expect someone that regurgitates right wing talking points to understand that no matter how many times it's pointed out.
It seems status quo or establishment or oligarchy or quite a few other words would be more truthful.
If you don't think the mighty Google doesn't censor
you might want to reconsider. All the tech giants are censoring: Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Google, YouTube and of course the MSM. Do not be surprised WHEN--not if--El Trumpo gets all these firms to be declared publishers because they select which material to publish and which to ban.
I didn't say
that they don't censor. I just don't see how it favors anything other than TPTB. It certainly doesn't favor the left.
Also, your analogy
doesn't hold up at all.
The US already provides for its own medically, or at least it tries to between medicare, Medicaid, and various state programs for children.
I am curious as to when someone like you would draw the line. Do you expect the US to absorb all poor people in the world who want to come here? What if millions of Indians and Chinese decided to up and leave their country for the US? Should we start shipping all of the Palestinians over here?
The UK was also a big exploiter in its heyday. Do you think millions of Indians and Chinese should move to the UK?
And the US isn't the only country who used slavery. So how do we hold those other peoples accountable for their exploitation?
dfarrah
No.
we do not provide for our own citizens' medical needs.
In a country where 2/3 of all bankruptcies are due to medical bills, no, we are not taking care of our citizens' medical needs.
In a country that ranks the worst among all high-income nations for access to healthcare, adminstrative efficiency, and health outcomes, no, we are not taking care of our citizens' medical needs.
In a country whose infant mortality rate is double and triple that in comparable developed nations (Canada, UK, Germany, Australia etc.), no, we are not taking care of our citizens' medical needs.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Whoa
That's a faulty generalization. You claim seems to be that because SOME citizens lack access to health care, ALL citizens' medical needs aren't being taken care of. The actual number is less than 10%.
Yes, and I did say we
are trying.
(but the politicians aren't)
Geez, we've only been arguing about this since Teddy Roosevelt, right?
dfarrah
Are you aware
of the millions of Americans that cross the border into Mexico and other countries for medical and dental procedures because they cant afford it here, Its fairly common knowledge. Travel agents are pushing Medical Vacations to other countries for fucks sake. Now that's what you call the U S taking care of its own.
Totally correct
Your comment well reflects the miserable state of US "access" to healthcare. Access does not equal ability to obtain healthcare. It's like going to a steak house but unable to afford anything on the menu. Off to Jack in the Box then.
If that is the case,
and yes I've heard of medical travelling, then why in the heck are people clamoring to come to the US??
Found this gem a while ago:
Martinez, 25, and his wife, Tania Vanessa Avalos, 21, had been living with his mother and reportedly concluded the couple's jobs at a pizza parlor and as a restaurant cashier would never provide enough money to be able to purchase a modest home in their suburb of San Salvador. That dream of owning their own home led the family to set out for the U.S., Martinez's mother, Rosa Ramirez, told reporters.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/salvadoran-president-says-his-country-is-t...
And these ding dongs think they can buy a house in the US with those types of jobs???? I guess they don't know that home ownership in the US is dropping due to unaffordability.
So why do people think the US is the land of milk and honey? Our medical services are crap, housing is unaffordable, etc., oh, and they get forced into concentration camps and forced to drink water from the toilets. And we're racist, racist, racist.
Gee, this just convinces me that yes, someone is paying these people to make this long arduous trip, risking their children's lives, just to get to drink toilet water.
Something is way off here.
dfarrah
Ding dongs?
Seriously? Your contempt for immigrants is showing...
You are way off.
However, you are exactly in line with right-wing opinion.
I expect that. You are our site Fox News Talking Points person.
What you do not know is Europeans hoping to come to America are now hoping to come to Canada. They get it that we suck.
These people entering illegally have no where else to go to live out their lives.
Give us your weak, your poor...except now, when we have made their countries unlivable in the first place. Stay there. Die there. Americans are only beholden to Americans.
Except that they suck at doing anything for born and bred Americans.
We are Third World, and all the closed borders and Nationalism we can generate does not lift up the poor, the homeless, the ill.
When rich people go to prison for knowingly and intentionally hiring illegals, we can have a rational discussion.
We will never, ever, have that rational discussion.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
A couple more comments:
it's a public health issue too, if it should happen than an undocumented with a contagious disease goes w/o the ability to access health care. And many in this group are the ones who bring food to our table, harvesting in the fields and working in restaurant kitchens.
They also pay taxes -- sales taxes for sure, and rent.
That said, the Ds on the stage needed to do a far better job of making the positive case for including undocumenteds in our health care. Like with paying for M4A and dealing with private insurance cos, D candidates have dropped the ball in properly and succinctly making the case.
I'd worry more about Americans infecting immigrants
Mexico has higher vaccination rates than the US. Measles especially.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
zenophobic ignoramuses, huh?
So we need to just move over for virtuous migrants who begin their US career by knowingly and deliberately violating our laws.
Do those studies factor in the economic and social effects of upward pressure on housing, utility and other prices caused by migration?
A "compassionate" society would first attend to our own problem with homelessness. I think that there should be a moratorium on all immigration, from anywhere, until we have no more homeless, always excepting the statistically insignificant Kings of the Road who don't want a settled place to live.
The fundamental question is whether we are going to regard national boundaries as real or not. You evidently think they are not real and need not be respected, just like you think it OK to insult anyone who disagrees with you.
Mary Bennett
No. No. No.
Over half of those "stupid Americans" disagree with you.
This is why we lose. You try to take out over 100+ million people with Private Health Insurance, including the Unions with their Cadillac Plans, away? Ever heard of AFSCME? That's the Gubmint bureaucracy. They like their health insurance and their pensions and all the other benefits that non-Gubmint workers don't get. You have a Pension? Me neither. Yeah, they're all Stupid.
ACA:
If you like your DR you can keep your DR.
If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance.
We will lower premiums by $2,500.
Oh wait. My premiums went up. My deductibles went up. I have to spend about $5 or $6 K out of pocket before "insurance" kicks in? Oh, and we'll fine your ass if you don't participate/conform.
Please reflect that Congress exempted themselves from the ACA because they were "concerned" that their staff would no longer be able to afford to "work" for the Gubmint... Hmmmm...
Phhtttt
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
I don't know why your comment began with,
"No, no, no", since my comment admitted that the majority of the electorate would rather live without affordable, adequate healthcare for all Americans, than provide that healthcare to the horrible gross lazy bloodsucking mexican and central american vampires who pour into this country just so they can kick back and live the Life of Reilly. Pretty much just like the Irish in the mid-1800s. Man, think what a better place this country would be if only we'd managed to keep out all those fat lazy catholic gingers.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I should note, on the other hand, that I have nothing
but contempt for your contempt for the people who work for the government. Anti-government sentiment of this sort is exactly what allows vicious predators like the Kochs to take everything from the rest of us.
It is an interesting characteristic of our well-propagandized populace, that when they encounter incompetence, laziness, or mendacity in the private sector they blame the individual; but when they encounter the same in government, they blame the entire system of having government provide services.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I hurt
your fee fees. Sorry, my bad.
My father worked for the Gubmint at the Natick Labrotory for 30 years where they developed "space food" and suits for the Astronauts. I am the last one to criticize what Gubmint can do when they have a purpose. My son, worked there too, developing mobile, air conditioned medical tents to provide the best care possible in extreme battle situations for our soldiers. Father, pension. Son, not so much...
Will try to be more "1984" and "Animal Farm" and "Scarlett's Web" in the future.
I actually like your posts among many others. This is why this site is great. We can disagree and argue and there are no banning trolls looking for fame (Raptavio?)
Keep on keeping on... See you on the next one.
You like Stevie?
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
I love Stevie. Saw him play live
I picked this song to reflect my smooth (s/) style
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqMNwOz3hgQ]
Yeah
Just another Irish Catholic here that is compelled by Stevie.
Hey, Untimely Ripped, Friggin Irish?... This is our countries most serious problem? Next up, Norwegian Terrorists?
Go figure.
The most interesting of the mystique is that he used the heaviest of strings because he had fat and strong fingers that could bend the Sh*t out of the instrument. That's an electric guitar. You could use silk string and make it sing, if one was a pud. Wild.
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
Rock and Roll, man
Play it loud!
not to wax excessively dismissive, but you cannot really
think that you could possibly hurt my fee fees ... can you?
as for SRV ... many, many years ago some friends of ours told us they were getting tickets for a concert where SRV was among the performers, and they wondered whether we wanted to also get tickets and meet them there. unfortunately, the venue in question was staffed by persons so utterly obnoxious, and was operated according to principles so contemptuous of the patrons, that we had, after our previous attendance (an otherwise excellent show with Eric Clapton and Mark Knopfler), sworn we would never return, not were Jesus Christ himself headlining.
in the end, the concert we missed became the stuff of legend. Clapton was scheduled to close the show ... as he recounts it himself, watching SRV play, he went through something akin to the stages of grief, sick with fear at the thought of following such a performance; until he finally reached acceptance when he realized that nobody in the audience would actually expect him to rise to the level that SRV was achieving.
as you have probably guessed, this was that concert, the grandest and finalest of grand finales ... after the concert, SRV was in a hurry to get somewhere, so EC offered up the helicopter he had originally arranged for himself. they took off into one of those summer fogs that is quite common in south-central Wisconsin, making for no small number of white-knuckle drives to and from here and there. seconds later, they plowed into a small rise, and that was the end of them.
three times in my life I've been listening to the radio while driving, and heard somebody playing guitar, and thought to myself, holy hell, who is this and how come I've never heard this record before. in each case, i was already familiar with the artist -- just not the particular song. two of those songs were performed by Clapton and Hendrix; the third was by SRV, playing the song with which he opened his triumphant 1985 return to Montreux:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVnbOq8dM94]
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Beautiful description of superb performer
I had the fortune to see SRV live in Santa Barbara. What fireworks. Had the good fortune to see brother Jimmie playing with the Fabulous Thunderbirds in San Luis Obispo. Also had privilege of seeing EC play in San Francisco's cow palace with Paul Rodgers. Good times.
Rock and Roll, brothers and sisters. It may yet save the world.
Here is one of my favorites--by REO Speedwagon, whom I saw at Winterland in S.F.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AymtlSTW_rA]
Play it loud.
Hard, hard sell.
I requires voters to trust the Democrats.
Seniors are going to be another hard sell. We know the devil we have with Medicare. By the time these fools open it up to a rewrite, who know what will be left in there. Toothbrush and a bandaid is my guess.
Trust - never going to
happyhappen."Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I hate to be the bearer of bad news
but that horse left the barn a while ago. Medicare is already under attack by the insurance industry and their friends in the US Congress. It's already being rewritten, and has devolved into an extraordinarily and unnecessarily convoluted mess.
The health insurance industry is hard at work trying to co-opt and hijack traditional Medicare and turn it into an HMO/PPO managed care system, complete with networks, pre-approval and referral requirements, etc.
The moniker currently given the insurance companies' managed care system for seniors is "Medicare Advantage.". They are selling it hard, with gimmicks such as "you get a free health club membership!" You know what? I'd rather forego the free health club membership and be able to choose my own doctor.
In some areas of the US, such as where I live now, most health providers do not accept traditional Medicare anymore. They only accept Medicare Advantage, which means we are de facto being strong-armed into buying the private insurance companies' managed care plans.
We don't know the exact parameters of Medicare 4 All in its final form. But I, for one, will welcome anything that takes power away from the sociopathic for-profit health insurance industry.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Gulp.
That's a hard pill to swallow--your comment is. I like Medicare just fine as a patient. Trying to "fix" it is certain to cost the patients and potential patients (all the rest) money.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing
with my comment? It's hard to tell.
I agree, it's such a big pill to swallow, even a gator with its huge gullet might choke on it.
Medicare as it originally was set up and functioned was a simple system. It isn't that way anymore. I'm intelligent, and I have a law degree, so reading and deciphering obscurely written documents should be easy for me. Medicare has become such a mess, I was metaphorically tearing my hair out trying to figure it all out.
In addition to everything else, they force you to make choices now about your coverage that have long-term consequences, even though you may not know what your needs will be in 20 years.
Whenever the health insurance industry gets ahold of something, they destroy it. I guess I could (should?) expand that statement to include financialized capitalists, aka Wall Street, in general.
Medicare does not have to be this complicated. I have to believe that they've deliberately made it so.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
To answer your question
I sadly agree with your comment. As far as obscurantism, I would rather read the neuroanatomy of of the reticular formation than try to penetrate the legalese that passes for healthcare legislation.
Yeah, just think of all the time
wasted managing health care.
Ugh.
dfarrah
Really?
You like medicare.
My dad has a medicare advantage plan, and I hate it.
The insurance companies make a mess of it; they make a mess of the entire industry. How I wish everything could be simplified. It would be so much cheaper overall.
dfarrah
They can always find more to take.
My medicare is working just fine too. Everything could always be better, but they can always find more to take. You know the response. "Welllll, it isn't perfect, buuuuuuuuutttt"
In a society with a government that "wanted" to improve the lot of Americans, the legislation would get fk'd up or a regulator would interpret something to everyone's disadvantage. Now give it to a bunch of soul less whores who hate our guts and want us all in gutters in the streets to further line their pockets and those of their pimps.
No matter the rationale, I do not, will not, can not trust any of them.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
You nailed, it, DK! That's exactly the plan. EOM
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Analysis spot on
Whenever one sees the phrase "modernization act", one knows the PTB are going to screw you. This is a case, not of "once bitten, twice shy", this is a case of "they keep biting and biting, even though I'm running like hell to avoid them".
Or "reform."
"Reform" means destruction.
dfarrah
Yes, approximately 1/3 of seniors are enrolled
in Medicare Advantage--by choice, though.
Why on earth would anyone want to see bills passed that would also make TM a 'managed care' system?
Why not just allow folks to join MA, if that's what they want, but, refrain from destroying our current TM system?
You say,
Agree, totally. But, it's a choice that every senior is allowed to make for themselves, as far as I know, and understand it.
(IOW, a couple years ago, it was that way when I turned age 65.)
Don't know how it helps to 'reform' current (1965) TM program to include the same features that are part of MA--so-called, Utilization Management (UM) and Global Budgeting (same as managed care capitation fees, called GB, when applied to large institutions, like hospitals). Also, a feature of 'managed care' systems.
TM is still a simple system.
And, totally efficient.
It's MA that's privatized.
If anything, I have to wonder why people aren't asking their lawmakers to nullify the legislation that created the Medicare Advantage program, in the first place.
Not the other way around. Sheesh!
Obviously, allowing those (MA) seniors to enroll in TM, unless, they have other healthcare options that they prefer.
As to,
Couldn't agree more, especially, with the current crop of neoliberal/corporatist lawmakers.
(talking about Congress, as a whole, since, we know that one or two lawmakers won't have the authority to dictate the final bill)
That's exactly 'why' I advocate for leaving Title XVIII, or Traditional/Original Medicare, alone--just, adding amendments to improve the benefits, not to destroy them, and pass more costs on to the beneficiaries.
I'm honestly perplexed that the solution would appear to be "going after the part of the Medicare system that works--as opposed to repealing the privatized portion."
But, as they say, "to each his own."
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
As I said in my comment
and have said before, in some areas of the country, such as where I currently live, most healthcare providers do not accept original Medicare. They only accept Medicare Advantage.
That means seniors living in those areas have no meaningful choice about whether to sign up for MedAdvantage and its HMO networks. They are being coerced/manipulated into it.
I have absolutely no doubt that the hand of the private insurance industry is behind that. I also have no doubt that they would love to see that state of affairs exist everywhere, and are actively working to make it happen.
I live on the West Coast. I've noticed that things tend to start out here and work their way eastward.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Hey, Centaurea - Apologize if my tone sounds
excessively sharp and/or disagreeable. Truly didn't mean to be contentious.
I believe I do recall, now, that you, and Smiley, and I had a conversation at EL's OT about this same topic. Clearly, it's not your fault, if your Medicare options are severely limited. Thanks for reminding me.
Of course, I strongly believe that allowing lawmakers to 'reform' TM (in the way that's been proposed in recent UMFA/MFA/Buy-In proposals) will make it not much different from Medicare Advantage--and, would be a huge mistake.
So, I plan to share the screenshot(s)--there's one more--which show that our current TM program will cease to be. Not be amended, or, simply reformed. But, replaced. With managed care.
If all else fails, Mr M and I just hope we'll be outta here before it happens.
Good luck to you in the Pacific NW--if I remember that, correctly!
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
DK, you say,
That's exactly the plan.
Both the discussions on 'Global Budgeting' and 'Utilization Management'--translate to transitioning/reforming to become 'managed care.'
'O' opined as to whether his own Mother should have had a surgery (fractured hip, I believe) at the expense of the American taxpayer, since she had terminal cancer (at the time of her fall).
For me and Mr M, having had 'Moms' who lived (collectively) just under 200 years--we wonder--if our genes were to allow us to stick around for several more decades, will we one day be refused healthcare, based upon on our age?
And, for people who believe that Bernie's/Jayapal's proposals leave the current (1965) TM in place, see below.
(Sorry, it doesn't look better. Didn't have large display hooked into laptop, so, the screenshot was poorly executed.)
Reading this blurb, keep in mind--Traditional/Original Medicare, signed into law in 1965--IS Title XVIII of the Social Security Act.
This part of Bernie's bill states emphatically that no more services will be paid from this program. Meaning, the program will be dismantled. IOW, his proposed UMFA is a replacement, not an amended version of our current TM.
Pushed for time. It cannot be stressed enough--this is a bait and switch operation.
No lawmakers--in their right mind--will admit to the tens of millions of seniors in this country, that they plan to dismantle the almost 60-year-old insurance program, which has served most (admittedly, not all) of them quite well. And, at an exceptionally low cost--due to the heavy subsidizing of the premiums.
IMO, lawmakers should just amend the current Title XVIII section of the SS Act to cover all costs at 100 percent. Then, expand it to all.
(Additional services can be added, as well. And should be.)
Easy peasy!
Later.
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Those "Illegals" wouldn't be here if it weren't for
what we were doing to their home countries in the first place. Both parties love capitalism and imperialism, but they sure as shit don't like paying the price for it....oh, that's right, they just make us pay for it. Too bad voters can't figure out that this is how the system really works. They'd rather shit wholesale on people with no power and no money. "Stoopid Immagintz!"
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEux8I2wMY0]
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
This applies to veterans too
The chicken hawks love to send men and women off to fight for their industries, but they sure don't like paying for the injuries they receive while doing it.
... and they wouldn't be here if we didn't want
cheap produce, cheap motel rooms, cheap janitorial services, cheap remodeling and repair, etc etc etc.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
You are very brave in
posting your essay.
dfarrah
Thank you but it isn't bravery
It's recognizing reality. The Dems are toast. But Hillary will come to the rescue!
I watched KH promise
an illegal how she would fight for her. The woman cried in gratitude.
How nice. The dems are going to fight for non-US citizens. Hell, they don't even fight for our own citizens.
dfarrah
Stop sniffing the Fox swamp gas Ed.
The point is that under M4A, EVERYONE will get medical care they can afford and that includes the undocumented. There won't be any more divisive Reaganite, us vs them bullshit when it comes to health care benefits and that's a very good thing.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
So NHK wants to give healthcare to anyone
who can step foot in the U.S., regardless of the legality of their presence here. So how would one deal with immigration then? Just do away with it altogether? Come one, come all. Yessir, we have enough money to bomb the crap out of 80+% of the world but we still don't have enough to cover all American CITIZENS. I guess, requiring citizenship to enjoy the benefits (?) of citizenship is an old worn-out concept. Passage of M4A is already under heavy attack because of the elevated taxation required, even if a lot of that taxation can be passed onto the 1%.
Swamp gas, indeed. Even if we reduced the military budget in half, an admirable goal, there is still not enough to cover all citizens, let alone free-loaders who are given the green light to trample across our borders, thereby disobeying our laws, by the oh-so politically correct Dem SJWs.
For a doctor...
you have a very reactionary view of public health policy.
Sick people outside the system cost far more than healthy people in it, which is why everyone must be allowed access to care, in order to keep them and everyone around them healthy and costing less.
In this way, covering everyone SAVES money in the long run.
(I'm actually kind of surprised I have to explain this to you.)
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I guess we can provide the rest of the
needy in the world medical care?
Why not? Why stop at South Americans?
dfarrah
These sick people shouldn't be here.
They should be provided with basic urgent care and once stable, deported whence they came.
don't be a joker, to send them back for them
to return the next week, is more expensive than to give them the same care as any other person.
You are teasing, right? Dr. Alligator. Think about your students. They are getting confused.
I make an example for how long and how deeply people get hurt, when they have been neglected or marginalized.
My former husband from an African country grew up in a former French colony and his own father and mother grew up in a former German colony, being born before wwI. All are dead, including my former husband, so I feel I won't hurt anyone telling this little story.
The french colony became independent in 1960. My former husband was 15 at that time, so he was 'lucky' to get accepted at age 12 year in the only colonial French highschool existing in that colony in the late fifties. For any child during that time to pass the exams to get accepted in that highschool was considered life-saving and of high importance. Their mothers and fathers were deeply relieved if their child 'made it'.
For him living through the struggles of the following independence years of his home country had a profound impact of him growing up. For sure his emotions towards the French and German colonialists were deeply tearing him apart. He hated them, but it was them, who gave him the opportunity to exel in school and being offered a stipend to the EU and to finally made a professional career in engineering and economics in the US. He never changed his thinking and emotions about those, who followed after the white colonialists were officially and legally not 'exsisting' any longer, but their emotions got passed along to the next generations. He knew very well, because he worked with them and I witnessed it as well.
We met in the late sixties and became partners/couple. One day I scanned a letter writtne to him by one of his former highschool schoolmates. She said literally, he should go to Europe and make a lot of babies over there with us white women and then drop them all and leave them alone to struggle with raising their mixed-raced babies on their own, ie the same way as the the white colonialists fathers dropped their mothers and left them mixed-race babies behind without ever receiving their white colonialist fathers' support or love.
I never forgot this letter (and never talked to anybody about having read it), because it showed me, how deep and long resentments received from society and family, remain alive in those who suffered under it.
Fifty some years later, I observe the same in the next generations.
That's why I don't like if one is teasing or bullshitting or funnily sarcastic in his verbal expressions about issues that are painful to some folks, one would never think about or even know they exist. But those folks read blogs and use the intertubes as sophisctically as any other person around the world. The technology has changed.
https://www.euronews.com/live
It is the right thing to do, but....
My American grandson got sick in England. Saw a doctor and got his Rx no fee, no questions asked. It is the way it should be world wide. Having said that, this is America. We don't give a FF about anyone or anything but profits, privilege masquerading as merit, and satisfying every one of the seven deadly sins until we destroy the planet and ourselves.
It will be a tough sell, and if we want health care for all, we really need to start by giving it only to our own until we get all the kinks out. Why set up an easy target to hang every problem on?
One thing about this country is how stupid we are. We plug up the drain and flood the basement. Do we unplug the drain? Hell no, we install a sump pump that floods the yard? Then do we unplug the drain? Fk no, we hire a landscaper to regrade the entire yard.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
dingdingdingdingding!!
dingdingdingdingding!! Give that dkmich a Marijuana!
(I live in Colorado; I can say that!)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
So, you really think that the
American voter is going to go for picking up the tab for foreign freeloaders?
We have enough trouble providing for our own in need.
dfarrah
What are you saying?
That you oppose M4A because the undocumented get the same benefits you will?
Yet another example of Fox conservatives finding creative ways to vote against their own economic interests.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Great straw man.
And no, I do not want to provide the world medical care with the US footing the bill.
dfarrah
What straw man?
Do you want M4A or don't you?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
The issue is not M4A regardless of their equities
If they are not legal residents, they belong elsewhere. No question the US squanders its wealth expanding the Empire but even if that drain were suddenly and completely stopped this very minute, there is no way that the flood of illegals could be paid for. Even crazy AOC admitted to an "accounting error" by which M4A planners calculated M4A costs could be shifted from the military budget: http://journalgazette.net/news/fact-check/20181204/fact-check-ocasio-cortez-makes-a-21-trillion-mistake
Yes it is...
If you want to derail M4A over a relatively minor issue of illegal immigration, you seriously need to reexamine your priorities.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Relatively minor issue?
144K illegals storm the border from the South is a minor issue--that's just in the past month. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
When does this become a big issue? 1,000,000 per month?
Sampling bias
That is apprehensions, not migrants. If you increase the surveillance, you will increase the apprehensions regardless of the actual numbers. They are not independent of course, but neither are they perfectly correlated. It makes more sense to use estimators that have not changed over the time period in question.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
And you suggest what measure?
It’s your argument!
But maybe you could look at Nonprofit assistance records?
(Science is hard...)
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
The measure I suggest is implicit in my essay.
Stop the illegals from entering in the first place.
Drug War redux
Like when The Feds would spend six months seizing more coke than usual and then announce how much worse the problem was becoming.
Although now they're seizing people.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
it is a major issue in Europe
and the discussion is needed, but not helping. The US 'illegal immigration issues' from neighboring countries in South and MIddle America seem to be peanuts compared to Europe's 'illegal immigration of refugess' from Middle Eastern and African countries.
When a captain of a ship, whose task it is to rescue 'illegal immigrants' into Europe from drowning or starving of thirst or psychological imbalance of its passengers, gets imprisoned for 'illegally' entering a harbor in Italy (Lampedusa)
Updated | Sea-Watch 3 captain arrested after defying Salvini ban,
it's time to stop mincing words over what it means to be 'illegal', being a 'migrant' or being a 'refugee' or being a 'free-loader'. At the very least the discussions enrage people's emotions to a degree that should never happen.
https://www.euronews.com/live
What you describe is in the science of logic
is a dilemma. Meaning that there are two horns of a pointed argument between which those extremes, there is no middle ground. We have with immigration a true dilemma. A balance has to be struck between the feelings of empathy and the practicalities of material supply. Too often, the SJWs do not allow for deficiencies in the crass materialistic nature of well...material. They pretend that material resources are as surely as boundless as their endless SJW empathy.
they may pretend whatever, but the voter
still will have to come down to earth five minutes before he makes his cross on the ballot and and knows what's for real and what is 'hot air noise pretending manipulative shit'.
I trust common sense.
I am sick and tired of dilemmas too. At least for today.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Where, may I ask,
is the endless SJW empathy for the homeless and one step up therefrom, meaning the person scored a bed in someone's garage for a week or so till they get kicked out, already here? I guess our own citizens in desperate circumstances lack a certain exotic appeal.
Mary Bennett
Your comment is both appropriate and reflects a larger issue
That issue is the destruction wrought by neoliberalism onto the majority of the populace. We should spend our money at home. We should not reward oligarchs for their oligarchy nor squander trillions per decade on the military. Besides, neoliberalism and a permanent war economy promote each other. There is enough money to do good things (not war) such as reduce homelessness and rebuild infrastructure.
... they do? Since when?
(corrected misplaced blockquotes)
The US is not providing medical care properly, neither to illegal immigrants, nor legal ones.
Your rhetoric is at minimum boring and at maximum enraging some folks and it smells like it's on purpose. Which is where it gets dangerous to read your comments.
Do not worry, most people who might consider immigrating into the US know by now they would end up poorer than they would staying in their 'poor' countries. At least they can do the math.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I'm also beginning to see
this whole issue as a race issue, too, just like the SJWs do, except from a different perspective.
After all, the people in the US who are complaining that the US is not providing enough for the South Americans aren't belly aching about poor Indians, poor Chinese, poor Muslims, poor Russians, poor Persians, or poor Palestinians, etc.
Hmmmmmmmm.
dfarrah
...
Do you need some help sratching your belly?
Note to JtC:
I am willing to redact this comment, but I am sorry to say that I am now an example how much commentators can enrage readers. You tell me how I am supposed to behave on this blog.
https://www.euronews.com/live
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