Can we talk about Syria

Hi everyone:

If you were hoping to read a highly informative piece about the mysteries and intrigues of Syria you've come to the wrong place. What happened was that I was asked to answer a question on Quora:

What is Hillary Clinton's end-game in Syria?

I pondered that for a bit and I got to wondering why we were there at all. Of course, I knew about the evil Assad and his human rights abuses but that justification is wearing a bit thin from the US Government. Naturally I assume there are other reasons... reasons having to do with oil, money, and regional politics. Oddly though, I'm not finding much. I did come across this online debate between Jacobin & Counterpunch

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/08/syria-civil-war-nato-military-interve...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/31/jacobin-and-the-war-on-syria/

But reading those I'm still left wondering what the US is actually doing there. So now I bring my quora question to you folks. Who's got some information on Syria circa 2011 & 12?

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Azazello's picture

It's a pipeline war. Here are some links:
Pepe Escobar at Counterpunch
The Guardian
blacklisted news.com
Global Research.ca
OEN
Hope that helps. Most of these are links I got from joe, by the way.

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

SnappleBC's picture

As soon as I saw the question I knew that C99 was going to be the place to go to get real information.

As a general note to everyone here, thanks for helping to make this a reality based community -- you know -- actual reality which conforms with facts on the ground without first checking party affiliation.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

importer's picture

Here is a good source for the incredible myopia that is prevalent in our State Department and other agencies that are infested with neocon psychopaths............

http://eastwestaccord.com/team-member/stephen-f-cohen/

In the end, it is all about Russia and trying to keep Russia from becoming a key player in world politics. Putin has pretty much outplayed the neocons who live in a vacuum of feverish hatred for Russia. We sit here like a bunch of dolts buying into the BS that we hear day after day on MSM that has nothing to do with reality in the world. Russia, China, Brazil - (the brics) and a lot of other nations, including some of our NATO allies are realizing that our leadership is stark-staring crazy and believes that they can win a "tactical" nuclear war - whatever the hell that is. We are the country that needs to be stopped - and I hate having to say that, but it is the truth. We have totally lost our way and are preparing to put another stark-staring crazy neocon in the WH. Even now, they prepare the path for the anointed one - we are headed to WWIII like McNOW without divine intervention. Buckle up kids, it's going to be a wild ride.

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Big Al's picture

were on the Bush admin's "7 countries in 5 years" list. Syria is also seen as a stepping stone to Iran, which is also on that list. Syria and Iran are strong allies and some have said the road to Tehran goes thru Damascus. The war in Syria was never a civil war as the mainstream media labels it, it was from the beginning an externally instigated proxy war to effect regime change, i.e., remove Assad like Gaddafi and Hussein before them, and balkanize or partition the country to weaken it. Like with Iraq and Libya there are others reasons particularly oil and oil pipelines, but also Syria has an independent central bank and the banksters want that.

Prof. Tim Anderson has a good book out titled "Nato's Dirty War on Syria".

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/25/interview-with-prof-tim-anderson-n...

Tony Cartalucci of Land Destroyer Report has also covered the Syria and Libya wars from the beginning.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/search/label/Syria

"Slouching Toward Sirte, Nato's War on Libya and Africa" is a good reference regarding the Libya war.

https://www.forewordreviews.com/reviews/slouching-towards-sirte/

Of course, our next president was highly involved and her emails told the story.

A newly-released Hilary Clinton email confirmed that the Obama administration has deliberately provoked the civil war in Syria as the “best way to help Israel.”

In an indication of her murderous and psychopathic nature, Clinton also wrote that it was the “right thing” to personally threaten Bashar Assad’s family with death.

In the email, released by Wikileaks, then Secretary of State Clinton says that the “best way to help Israel” is to “use force” in Syria to overthrow the government

http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clinton-destroy-syria-for-israel-th...

So Clinton's plans are to finish what she and Obama started, get rid of Assad, destroy Syria like they did with Libya, then go on to Iran, Russia and China.

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SnappleBC's picture

I sort of figured you'd have some research on this Smile

Thanks for the assist.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Big Al's picture

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snoopydawg's picture

As Big Al mentioned, Clark said that the United States was going to take out 7 countries in 5 years.
Most of the reasons for taking out the governments of those countries is to then install our puppet governments that will not only let the United State's special interests be able to get their hands on those country's resources, but make Israel the only superpower in the Middle East.
It's interesting that while countries are doing this for Israel, there hasn't been any Israeli troops having to put their live's in danger.
How many US military members have died not to protect our country or our freedoms, but for Israel? There is something very wrong with this!
This is an excellent article about how the CIA has been meddling in Syria and many other countries in the Middle East since its inception.

While the compliant American press parrots the narrative that our military support for the Syrian insurgency is purely humanitarian, many Arabs see the present crisis as just another proxy war over pipelines and geopolitics. Before rushing deeper into the conflagration, it would be wise for us to consider the abundant facts supporting that perspective.

In their view, our war against Bashar Assad did not begin with the peaceful civil protests of the Arab Spring in 2011. Instead it began in 2000, when Qatar proposed to construct a $10 billion, 1,500 kilometer pipeline through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and Turkey. Qatar shares with Iran the South Pars/North Dome gas field, the world’s richest natural gas repository. The international trade embargo until recently prohibited Iran from selling gas abroad. Meanwhile, Qatar’s gas can reach European markets only if it is liquefied and shipped by sea, a route that restricts volume and dramatically raises costs. The proposed pipeline would have linked Qatar directly to European energy markets via distribution terminals in Turkey, which would pocket rich transit fees. The Qatar/Turkey pipeline would give the Sunni kingdoms of the Persian Gulf decisive domination of world natural gas markets and strengthen Qatar, America’s closest ally in the Arab world. Qatar hosts two massive American military bases and the U.S. Central Comman

http://www.politico.eu/article/why-the-arabs-dont-want-us-in-syria-midea...
This article shows that Obama knew that Assad didn't use the sarin nerve gas on the Syrian people, it was the terrorists that the US is funding that used it after the CIA and the state department gave it to them while they were supplying them with weapons from Gaddafi's stockpiles and they were running them out of the embassy in Benghazi.
The reason Obama let them use the gas was so that he would have an excuse to invade Syria and remove Assad for our allies.
Think about that! He intentionally killed over 1,000 innocent people including children! And Hillary, the protector of women and children was aware of this.
If that isn't sociopathic behavior, I don't know what is.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line
There are so many more articles about the Syrian wars, including how the United States is creating, arming and funding terrorists groups in order for them to help overthrow Assad.
I am beyond disgusted with the people who are going to vote for Hillary even though they know that she has responsibility for over 1 million deaths of innocent civilians in the Middle East and other countries going back decades to when she encouraged Bill to bomb the countries he did.
She not only has been in favor of so many military interventions, she profited from the weapons sales to countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar and others that have horrible human rights violations.
And they insist that when we called her a warmonger that we were using right wing talking points.
For many of her and Obama's supporters, wars started under false pretenses is only wrong when it's a republican president doing them!

The Syrian children that died a heinous death from the sarin nerve gas.
image_189.jpeg

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Big Al's picture

is the article Sy Hersh wrote in 2007, telling how the Bush admin was shifting toward instigating a sectarian war between the Shiites and Shia in the ME/NA region to facilitate take down of Libya, Syria, and Yemen and usher in ISIS.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/05/the-redirection

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Iran is Israel's big bad enemy (go ask Bibi), and since the Syrian Alawites (a branch of Shia Islam) have run Syria for a long time and are allied with Shia-majority Iran, the Israeli hawks would love to keep the place in perpetual chaos and ruin, even if it means having ISIS next door. Likewise Turkey (Israel's frenemy) has been slipping aid to ISIS, as has Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states, just so they can all take a whack at Shia Muslims. Meanwhile of course, the Saudis are bombing the living hell out of Yemen just so they can exterminate the Houthis, a perpetually oppressed Shia ethnic minority in Yemen, with Israel and the US cheering them on. It gets even more disgusting than that, but I'll stop here.

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Robert Perry breaks down Hillary's rational for Assad regime change. He references a policy statement that Hillary sent to her staff. Once you realize what regime change is about, you then realize why neocons have no problem with Sunni-based genocidal jihadists conquering Syria--you realize why this administration has not taken out ISIS nor Al Queda. They are needed to "remove Syria as the link in the supply chain between Iran and Israel’s foe, Lebanon’s Hezbollah."

A Revealing Email

Publicly, Hillary Clinton has toyed with both the democracy and humanitarian arguments but one of her official emails – released by the State Department – explains that the underlying reason for the Syrian “regime change” war was the Israeli government’s desire to remove Syria as the link in the supply chain between Iran and Israel’s foe, Lebanon’s Hezbollah.

Though undated and unsigned, the Clinton email reflected the thinking of the then-Secretary of State and her inner circle as of late April 2012 (when it appears to have been sent), about one year into the Syrian civil war. (The position paper appears to have been drafted by Clinton’s former adviser James Rubin but then was passed along by Clinton to other recipients with the author’s name deleted.)

The email explains the need for “regime change” in Damascus as important to Israel, which wanted to blunt Iranian regional influence and protect Israel’s “nuclear monopoly,” which is acknowledged quite frankly although Israel’s status as a rogue nuclear state is still considered a state secret by the U.S. government.

“The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad,” the email states, brushing aside President Obama’s (eventually successful) negotiations to restrict Iran’s nuclear program.

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/02/how-hillary-clinton-ignores-peace/

Note, the quote has link to email.

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a worse-kept secret than Israel’s status as a rogue nuclear state? I mean, is there anyone who doesn't know they have nukes?

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native

Lenzabi's picture

In my view Syria is a mutli-pronged issue.
1) the situation helped form ISIS as that bogeyman replaced Al Queada as our reason to support feeding the MIC over 600billion a year and cost us trillions of dollars fighting what should be WW-3. Money spent to fight as well as on contractors who have made working toys of war as well as potential garbage(F-35).

2) the chance to control the oil of that nation, so the Resource wars are part of WW-3, and it has been bloody and brutal.

3) a Place where Hillary if she is elected can act tough, and escalate her ME policies.

4), losing Syria as a warm water port for the Russian Navy is a punishment to Putin who is in opposition to Hillary and that poses a chance for military retaliation for their hacking records of the DNC(?).

5) Still a power play chip in the world wide game the leaders and oligarchs and plutarchs are playing while fooling us that they have our interests at heart.

6) a place the MSM can use to distract us from the theft of democracy, our few remaining safety nets and programs, or from seeing any new political scandal until they are ready, so, Syria is another dog wagging piece so long as that warring continues.

and finally, our CIA and Pentagon make buffoons of themselves there as they arm opposing factions thinking that they will either fight Assad's forces, or ISIS, when instead they turn them on each other, showing the futility of it all.

I agree with Jill Stein, cut off the weapons and see how the fighting slows down, and maybe some talks can help end the suffering?

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

snoopydawg's picture

That joe creates each week night? If you haven't then that's a great way to learn about the many wars and other issues that our government is doing around the world.
He posts links to articles and after I read the articles, I go to their home pages and read other articles they post.
Counterpunch, global research, truthout and truthdig are excellent websites for information.
Maybe you don't have as much time as I do to read not only the EBs, but many other websites. I guess that's the nice part of being disabled. Smile Sad

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SnappleBC's picture

I need to start reading those things. Honestly back in the GOS days I didn't even know what those threads were all about and I assumed it was community members communing or somesuch. Now I know them better as more of a news compendium but I never swapped over my brain

*** To everyone in this thread thanks. I've got my quora answer but I think I'd like to add more detail and then start a "Hillary around the world" set of diaries. One of the things which amazes me about Democrats is how much they hated Bush for lying us into a war in Iraq with bogus WMD claims.... which is exactly what Hillary is doing right now with Syria.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

snoopydawg's picture

supporters and I'm not alone here.
As many of us have stated, we joined DK because of the Iraq war and we all knew that it was based on lies. But after Obama was elected president and continued PNAC's mission in the Middle East, people on DK gave him a pass.
Suddenly it was okay for him to use drones in over 7 countries we weren't at war with, have a kill list and decide every Tuesday who was going to be the next person to be killed from a drone regardless if they were at a wedding or other social gatherings.
It was acceptable for him to kill 3 Americans without due process, including a 16 year old boy because "he should have picked a better father"!
It just boggles my mind how they went with her instead of the candidate that was offering what the democratic party used to stand for.

I wonder how many of them didn't vote for Hillary because of her Iraq war vote, but now that she has said that she made a mistake, it's okay and she is forgiven, even though she continued her warmongering ways when she was SOS?

If you do an essay about her and need more links I have a lot so message me.

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by negotiating with the GOP as if it had an ounce of legitimacy left breathed life into a party that only needed a stake in its heart to die. Obama is absolutely the worst neoliberal we had in office yet.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Redstella's picture

I expect her to top this shameful 'legacy'. Sad times...

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skod's picture

Forever war.

L. Ron Hubbard had it wrong: he said something on the order of "to really make money, start a religion". Nope. To really make money, start a war- or a whole shitload of them. Declared or undeclared, who's going to stop her?

Faugh.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

…which is taking place across for the entire Middle East, from Palestine to the border of Iran, sponsored by the Saudis, Qatar, Israel, and the US. Executed by ISIS, a Sunni cohort.

I discussed it here a while back:

Why is this any of this the business of the United States?

This is a religious issue on the other side of the world. The extermination of all Shiite muslims. ISIS is paid well by our closest allies, Saudi Arabia, to carry out the genocide as far as the border of Iran, with their fleets of identical vehicles and American weapons. It's not that complicated to see what's going on here. This, too, is a US proxy war against Russia via Syria and Iran (and Ukraine, of course).

In Syria, the religious war centers on an issue over a single pipeline that must transit Syria to reach the EU market. The Syrians, being Shiites and all, want it to carry Iran's oil. The Saudis, being Sunnis and all, want it to carry Qatar's. The US fights on the side of the Saudis and Sunnis, so the CIA had to stage a fake revolution there. They ran guns from Benghazi to the mercenaries pretending to be outnumbered and abused Syrian rebels. That way, the US Neocons could stage a "humanitarian intervention" with money and military support on behalf of Greater Israel, the future nuclear-armed dictator of the entire Middle East, as per the Bible. Hillary, Queen of the Neocons, facilitated most of this, as SoS.


Note the Syrian location. It's up to them whose oil flows. War is always about resource control and profits.

I believe I also answered the question at Quora some time ago.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
snoopydawg's picture

I'm sure that people have noticed all of the anti Putin/Russia rhetoric being spouting by the media, Obama, Hillary, the people in the war department and their dogs.
Instead of talking about how the DNC cheated Bernie out of the election, they blamed Putin and Trump for hacking into the DNC without any evidence.
People aren't aware that Obama is already starting the war with Russia. He and NATO have been putting troops in over 20 countries surrounding Russia and saying that Putin is being aggressive.
Yes he defended his base in Crimea and is helping Assad in Syria.
People are buying the propaganda.
Just like they bought the babies being thrown out of incubators, Saddam had WMDs, the gulf of Tonkin and all the other propaganda they feel us when they want people to get behind their wars.

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According to the PNAC, any other country that seems strong, has to be knocked down so we can be dominant everywhere. Only subordinate colonies allowed. With our military bases in them to maintain control.

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elenacarlena's picture

It's also why Jill should win, but of course won't.

The whole lot of the mainstream politicians, plus their USA! Rah rah! enablers deserve a special place in Hell.

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our votes for senators and congresspersons.

The priority this election needs to be to deny Clinton a congress willing to rubberstamp her war plans. I know she is quite capable of ordering troops onto the battlefield without congressional approval, but congress can deny funding, can hold hearings which publicize her crimes and can even impeach and remove her from office.

The Republican for whom you would normally not consider voting might be a reliable vote for impeachment, against NSA spying, and maybe even against her war plans.

In particular I urge anyone who votes in NY22 have nothing to do with Kim Myers. If you can't stand Tenney--I don't blame you--there is also self-funded independent Babinec. In two years, how much damage can he do?

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Mary Bennett

elenacarlena's picture

there is no good independent to vote for, then vote Dem. A Democratic Congress is less likely to vote our civil rights away. A Repug Congress will still be all for the TPP and wars and every other corporate rump-kissing they can envision and Clinton will sign it all. And a split WH/Congress will allow them to do nothing else and point at each other for the blame when it all goes wrong. Make it all the same party. Then they have to actually govern or show themselves for the do-nothing a$$holes$ they are. No more excuses, no more the other guy did it, no more finger pointing. Force the party to either grow up or prove themselves incompetent and cruel.

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The republican, Tenney, opposes TPP, or so she says.

Meanwhile, the democrat, Myers, who knows? I have never seen a website so devoid and empty of information regarding the candidate's stance or views on important issues of the day. War and peace, nada. Immigration, zilch. Industrial policy, put Americans back to work, nowhere to be found. Foreign policy: she apparently never heard of it. Farm policy, well there she does have something, which is, paraphrasing, farmers in Central NY need more infrastructure. Actually we have quite a good, if modest, mostly two lane, road system What I take this to mean is that when she was recruited by the DCCC, she was promised money to spend in the district in return for her rubberstamp vote for the Clinton/Netanyahoo/Schumer war plans. In addition, she is completely inaccessible to voters. NO town meetings. NO debates that I have heard of. Her "campaign" is a kind of royal progress around the district from festival to parade to upscale eatery, all described with breathless enthusiasm on her website, where her schedule is NOT published, nor can her schedule be found on her website. If you want to know where she will be appearing, you have to put yourself on an email list. No thank you. I consider it an insult that this nonentity has been placed in front of us, especially in a district that voted heavily for Bernie in the primary.

I have been an independent for about 7 years, so please don't tell me I have to vote for democrats. The democrats need to earn my vote.

What I want, first and foremost, is no more overseas wars, no more regime changes. Right now, the democrats look like the war party.

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Mary Bennett

elenacarlena's picture

I said IF you don't have a decent independent to vote for, I think it would be better to vote Dem. I said what I think, and I do think that will hold true in general. We have had a split Congress, did it accomplish anything meaningful? No. What happened? The Repugs blamed the Dems and the Dems blamed the Repugs. Want to stop that? Make the WH and the Congress the same party. Since I think Clinton will win (gag), then that would mean making Congress Dem.

Meanwhile, since you have a demonstrably lousy Dem and maybe an OK Repug, vote Repug if you want. You can think that's better just like I think Dems are (slightly) better. This isn't TOP and I'm not trying to be the vote police, just voicing my opinion. I'm voting for Jill Stein and hoping most Americans wake up and join me. Then Congress will be split regardless, but with a Green in the WH who knows what will happen. At least we won't be at war.

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Like Glen Ford said the day before yesterday on Real News, the way to grow third parties is to vote for them.

As for divided Congress, I have to disagree with you there. At the present time, it looks to me (assuming that Clinton will win, which I still think she will (auggh), a hostile and non-cooperative congress might be the only thing which can keep us out of a general war, or an endless succession of regime changes.

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Mary Bennett

elenacarlena's picture

limited authority they refused, because it didn't go far enough! http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-war-against-isis...

Anyway, we've had a lot more divided Congresses/Presidents than we have of the same party, and divided has never worked very well. So I still think try something different, make it all one party for an extended period of time. I still think they think they can get away with $#I+ because they can point the blaming finger at others. I could be wrong, but we'll never know if we keep splitting them.

But we can agree to disagree.

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Wiki: CIA activities in Syria

CIA activities in Syria since the agency's inception in 1947 have included coup attempts and assassination plots, and in more recent years, extraordinary renditions, a paramilitary strike, and funding and military training of forces opposed to the current government.

nice

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Lenzabi's picture

Oh I mentioned them as they have made a clown like affair with bloody consequences when the CIA backed faction fought with Pentagon backed and armed faction instead of killing ISIS/Assad's troops.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish