Breaking: Ukraine-bound plane crashes in Tehran
Submitted by WaterLily on Wed, 01/08/2020 - 3:35pm
I'm just seeing this, and have no idea what it might mean. But it certainly seems relevant:
Ukrainian Boeing plane crashes in Iran, 176 people dead
Per usual, this is a drive-by but I'll try to update as time allows (I have a conference call with a client on the other side of the world soon, so my evening is a bit messed up). For that reason, I also welcome updates in the comments from the many of you who know way more than I do. (And if anyone wants to start a new essay on this topic, please do).
Comments
Here is an op ed on the crash I found interesting
The more we find out about Tehran plane crash, the more questions we have. Here are the main ones
I've read the plane had been serviced two days before the flight and that it wasn't very old. Just the timing of it raises questions, but hopefully time will tell the true story.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Thanks, snoop!
As always, you're on top of it.
My heart goes out to the innocent victims, no matter the reason for the tragedy. Of course I remain skeptical that it's coincidence.
MH17 déjà vu?
Hope not. Would be nice to get definitive answers.
MH17
That was almost six years ago?
How is that possible? Tempis fugit.
Edited.... snoopydawg beat me to it
In unrelated news ...
My client call was with Australia.
My contacts there are lovely people. Still, I was struck by their "soldier-on" attitude, driven (of course) by capitalism. There we were, talking about f*cking software, while they're all holed up at home, instead of at the office, because the air quality in Sydney is so atrocious. But we all carried on like nothing is wrong. Which also says a lot about me.
Stop the world, I want to get off.
the world (and media)
keeps on spinning
"stop this bus, I need to get off"
is very appropriate
end of the ride
It's not that you're a Snowflake....
...for grieving during business hours.
It's just that Americans were more than ready to transition into a Utopian environment fifty years ago. We certainly had the dough to make that happen on this continent for everyone. A showcase of the possible for humankind. I figure the collective mind still grieves for how our real potential and treasure was seized, twisted, and turned into ashes by Federal government psychopaths and a frightened zero-clue society of enablers. The people were never taught how to power-think the future. We were schooled in extinction, instead.
In my case, I have Australia blocked in the real world and scurry past any mention of it. I'm conserving the trauma for those who need it.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Thanks, Pluto.
What you say is so true.
The latest "rumor"
was that it was shot down. The most rational release I read was that following an investigation a report will be issued.
From a professionally perspective: I am waiting for a real report from real professionals. Your mileage may vary.
RIP
reading between the lines here
a valuable asset was tracked to the flight
had to have another black ops
'accident'
cover their tracks pretty well
eventually truth will come out
unless all witness is erased
It's happened before.
It's now 3 or 4 possibly powerful peace negotiators
disappeared mysteriously
kinda fits the CIA portfolio
setting up another 'regime change'
for US interests
over there
So, same old same old ? ! ?
This is getting a bit redundant.
RIP
Not sure the playbook has been updated
much from the 50's
unless you see a new pattern
I'd love to hear it
Same vicious cycle
I keep thinking we should hit a low point were we say this far and no further, but …
RIP
I followed the story last night.
But not today.
Soon after it happened, Iran reported that there were technical problems on the plane.
Eyewitnesses said it was a fireball in the sky. Pictures showed scattered burning on the ground.
The plane was climbing from the airport and had reached 8000 feet when it began burning and fell. That was about 6am.
Iran did downplay the crash. The missiles that Iran fired at US airbases in Iraq that morning targeted an agreed-upon spot. The US evacuated the area. This was done to demonstrate an Iranian response to the assassination war crime. The point was to calm down Iranians, who were demonstrating and agitating for revenge. It does not replace the revenge strike against Americans, which could even be a high-level target in the US itself. Appropriate retalitory targets would be the Secy of Defense or one of the Joint Chiefs. Or anyone who bragged about it that day. If I am not mistaken, Iran put $80 million in a fund for anyone who served Trump's head on a plate. Kathy Griffith already applied.
I thought more details would be out today. The pilot had plenty of time to contact the tower, unless the plane was blown out of the sky. But there was no mention of that. The circumstances are strange, in any case. I can see Ukraine being suspicious. The passenger manifest could provide a cui bono.
(I can tell you right now, Russia did not blow MH-17 out of the sky that day in Ukraine. My view is that the Ukraine Neonazis in Kiev are very familiar with shooting down passsenger planes. They would recognize the signs.)
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
There have been several reports to that effect
but they never get any traction in the MSM.
Photos from the US geostationary spy satellites
...above Ukraine that day tell the whole story in detail. I understand those photos are currently in the hands of the US Navy.
Until I examine those satellite photos, my story is as credible as the US government's story. Anytime they classify a document like this, it is to hide a crime that they committed themselves (or a crime they plan to commit).
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Kerry said he had complete satellite proof
that the Russian backed separatists were guilty of downing MH17. Yet, at the very same time he is calling for an investigation but the US government NEVER releases this 'unquestionable proof' of the separatist's quilt.
???????
Listen to Kerry catapulting the propaganda:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qJeSHvV5B4]
Don't forget that he has already said he has definitive satellite proof of guilt. If that was the truth then why didn't he cut to the chase and simply put it on the table?
It is because he had no proof that the Russian backed separatists did this horrendous crime.
The thing that pisses me off the most is how fucking easy it is to baffle the average person with this bullshit. Maybe the average American deserves what they get.
A geosynchronous orbit . . .
is a bit over 22,000 miles above the center of the earth. If you have a reference to a geosynchronous spy satellite, please share. Spy satellites are typically in elliptical low earth orbits. They reach their lowest altitudes over the areas they are intended to observe.
I would never be able to find where I read it,
but the first news I came across about this plane was that someone at the airport, an employee, said it looked like the plane had taken some flak, that the holes in the plane at it's nose appeared to have holes in the metal.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Here's one source with extensive photos
of holes in engine cowling and fuselage.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10698862/iran-plane-shot-down-crash-projec...
Thanks.
I went to sleep last night figuring the plane was shot down.
This will make it Night 2.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Which is indicative of catastrophic turbine failure.
When that happens the hydraulics are likely to be cut. On the 737NG the manual trim wheel is so small that it is impossible to use in most conditions. There is also the possibility of the manual control cables being cut by shrapnel from the turbine.
I'm surprised that I haven't seen any CT about the earthquake near the Iranian nuclear plant yet.
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Hoping that was the cause.
We don't need another MH17 media circus to confuse the unwashed masses.
how to power-think the future
just imagine it
Iran won't give black boxes to Boeing or us
Iran says it will not give black box from crashed airliner to Boeing
Oh bugger off, Mike. You don't get to tell Iran what to do with this incident. Yes Ukraine has a right to be involved, but I think the investigation should go with Iran since it happened there.
Interesting info.
Is this ominous?
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
By law, the investigation will be in Iraq,
, the country where the crash occurred. The joke in pilot-land today was that Iraq would not give the black boxes to Boeing because Boeing would just say that it was the pilot's fault. Ethiopia also refused, in their own investigation...trust in Boeing, the FAA, and the NTSB has taken a huge hit in recent months. There are other very capable technicians in other countries that will help in the investigation.
This afternoon (our time) a seeker head for an anti-aircraft missile was found, and publicized, and stirred up a whole lot more theories. I will wait.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I recently flew through Dubai
En route to vacation. Flight pattern went right over Iraq.
Grateful I'm looking back on that trip and not ahead to it.
Video of the plane on fire and the crash
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
PPRUNE
Is by far the best professional source for aircraft accidents, incidents, sabotage and shoot downs. Pilots from all over the world post. No agendas. And you get some really good analysis.
So here is the link for this accident / shoot down???
https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/628650-ukrainian-aircraft-down-iran-...
"And you get some really good analysis."
, and some really loopy theory. The trick is figuring out which is which.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Loopy shit
The loopy shit usually gets shot down in a hurry. After a while consensus builds.
Somebody has to be willing to go through all of the comments in order to figure out the consensus. On MH17 I probably went through 180 pages or more of comments. Probably about the same for MH370. It takes a lot of work. But in the end you have a much better idea of what the experts think.
And English is the universal language of pilots so you get to hear from any perspective.
In general, very sparce reporting on this incident...
...considering the magnitude of the tragedy. From the Guardian Iran crash: Ukraine Boeing with 176 onboard comes down near Tehran
When I saw the subheading
I noticed that, interestingly, there were no Americans on board. It could have been shot down by either Iran or "our" side.
Either way, neither side is playing this up, as far as I can tell.
The majority of the passengers were Iranian,
, many with dual citizenship. I can't see any motive for Iran to shoot it down, but could maybe have done it by some horrible mix-up with their air defenses. I can think of lots of parties with a motive to make it look like Iran did it.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Thank you all for contributing to the discussion.
Much appreciated. And I definitely am learning a lot about this.
I would not want to be in Iranian leaders' shoes.
I expect that their thoughts immediately went to Iran Air Flight 655 in 1988. This looks very much like the "disproportionate response" Trump was threatening. Which would make a proportionate tit-for-tat consist of downing a U.S. airliner. In the U.S.
EDIT: the latest reporting claims that the plane was downed by an Iranian defense system against attacks from the U.S. If so, that makes this no less a tragedy, but considerably less of a trigger for a wider war. That's assuming that the Iranian leaders acknowledge their error, instead of taking the American way of deflecting by blaming it on the enemy.
I'm waiting for what Pence has to say (snark)
This crash follows the usual pattern for a false flag.
It makes no sense for Iran to shoot down a civilian airliner minutes after assiduously avoiding casualties at two American air bases. It makes less sense to do it at your own airport. Operation Northwoods has been in the CIA playbook for a long, long time.
Others here have already mentioned MH-17. Would the fascists in Kiev murder their own countrymen to raise tensions? Of course. The US throws away American lives every time it starts a war.
In my essay here about Russiagate I mentioned MH-17: https://caucus99percent.com/content/okeydoke-americans-were-supposed-get
In my essay here about the Mueller investigation I discuss Pan Am 103: https://caucus99percent.com/content/what-mueller-wont-find
Killing innocent people is no problem for the warmongers who run the show here in the US. Tying in a murderous shootdown to the start of a war with "the enemy" is de rigueur for intelligence services. The second part is how this mass murder is reported in the American press. There has already been an unverifiable tweet from someone in the Middle East saying the Iranians did it. We know how easy it is to lie on Twitter. Someone like Pence will lie about it. Someone from the American military will leak something pointing the finger at Iran. It will be important for the Mighty Wurlitzer to merge the rockets that made holes in those airfields with whatever brought that plane down.
I would also say that Ukrainian mechanics fixing the plane two days before the crash may be the tell.
By the way, have I mentioned how American military mechanics fixed General Torrijos' helicopter before that one went down. There was a stretch when UN Secretary-Generals trying to stop wars around the world tended to have air crashes. At least until they got a Nazi in office there.
Watch how the media covers this.
Oh wait!
Lookee here: https://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Iran-investigators-Crashed-jet...
For anyone who hasn't seen it:
@earthling has started a new thread:
https://caucus99percent.com/content/and-bs-begins
I wanted to post it here so that contributors to this discussion can continue it over there, on the most recent essay.
Why was any plane allowed to take off?
During a time of hostilities?
Isn't there some kind of electionic warning in the Iranian defense system to ascertain if the target is a passenger plane?
Whatever sympathies there were with Iran because of Trump's assassination of their war hero who led the fight against Isis will surely dissapate if these new reports prove valid.
I don't know about you
But my skepticism meter is at 11.
Every which way, yeah.
No matter any provable explanation, a horrific tragedy.
Flying in the midst of war zones isn't a good idea no matter how anybody slices it.