About that NY Dimocratic primary:

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 10:25am

As an independent, formerly WFP, I could not vote.

I have more questions than answers.

First, about Nixon, why was everyone in NY progressive circles drooling over a TV actress with no previous experience in public office? Did she ever set foot outside of the NYC metro area? I am not aware that Nixon ever visited upstate.

What about the Green Party candidate for governor? I can understand the mainstream types wanting to pretend he didn't exist but did WFP or DSA even consider endorsing him?

I will take your word for it that Williams is a good guy, but also, I don't think he ever campaigned upstate. If you are running for a statewide office, should you not at least be seen throughout the state occasionally?

A relative did vote for Cuomo because, this person told me, Cuomo had made money available for the construction of low cost housing in our county, Oneida. Now, I think the money would have been better spent refurbishing existing housing stock, but that is just me with my historical preservation obsession.

If you think NY is badly run, you should try California. High rents, high crime rate--in some towns it is like living in a war zone--miserable education, low wages.

What do we know about Letitia James? Can she at least put a stop to the NYPD shooting unarmed citizens?

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Submitted by sny on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 12:29pm

My take

I doubt anybody was really drooling over Nixon - it was more drooling over getting rid of Andrew Cuomo. In the end Nixon got exactly the same percentage that Teachout did last election (34.4% vs 34.3%) - for comparison, Hillary got a weak-for-NY win of 58-42 over Bernie with a fairly similar statewide distribution.

Nixon didnt campaign upstate, since NYC was her weakness. NYC is a machine, and the recipe for success is to get the major party bosses on your side. Typically, this means bribing the big bosses who can get their demographics to come out and vote, either explicitly through no-show jobs or implicitly through more power/funding for them. This election, Cuomo cleaned up in lower-educated areas of the city - the Bronx went >80% while Queens and non-white-hipster parts of Brooklyn went >70%. The numbers just aren't there in the rest of the state if you're losing by that much there.

Most IDCers did lose - thats those Ds who caucused with Rs in return for mostly implicit bribes. But they won easily last time, with the difference being that Cuomo (thus the machine) was forced by his primary challenge to be ambivalent last time and nominally against them this time (he backed them completely before).

Edit: I should have said above that she spoke mainly to NYC issues rather than upstate issues, not that she didn't campaign upstate at all (though most events were around the city). This made sense since it was NYC where she needed votes to win.

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 11:41am

Thank you for that analysis.

@sny If Nixon's weakness was NYC, and she didn't campaign outside of NYC, what was her strategy? Did she even have one? I think that the American public has been there done that with celebrity TV star candidates. Myself, I don't think Trump won in 2016, I think Killary lost. I think Trump voters were looking for someone, anyone, who could get us out of the ME and disrupt our government.

What the phenomenon of the IDC losses suggests to me is that the smaller parties like DSA can, when they have good, convincing candidates, who are willing to work hard, win in local elections. AOC, for example, was tough, smart and Not An ***hole.

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by ggersh on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 12:20pm

Doesnt smell fishy to me, how about you?

@sny

- it was more drooling over getting rid of Andrew Cuomo. In the end Nixon got exactly the same percentage that Teachout did last election (34.4% vs 34.3%) - for comparison, Hillary got a weak-for-NY win of 58-42 over Bernie with a fairly similar statewide distribution.

Odd's of that seem pretty astronomical.

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

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now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Submitted by Steven D on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 11:44am

Yes she visited and campaigned in upstate NY

Many times. She won many upstate counties over Cuomo.

She didn't so well in NYC districts controlled by Cuomo's political machine where evidence of voter purges and suppression occurred, just as it did in the 2016 primary.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/reports-of-widespread-voter-supp...
https://epeak.info/2018/09/13/nycha-oversight-brings-claims-of-voter-sup...
https://gritpost.com/new-york-primary-vote-suppression/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/new-york-primary-voter-rolls...

Cuomo btw has been one of the most corrupt governors in NY history.

https://poststar.com/opinion/columnists/column-cuomo-s-new-york-is-still...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/nyregion/kaloyeros-guilty-buffalo-bil...

http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/395487-ny-governor-andrew-cuomos-own...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/nyregion/corruption-trial-cuomo-perco...

He even founded and supported the "Independent Democratic Conference" that caucused with Republicans in State Senate to prevent Democratic backed bills from passing, especially those bills promoting progressive programs like legalized marijuana and single payer healthcare.

https://mic.com/articles/177230/new-york-state-assembly-expected-to-pass...

https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/local/2018/06/17/ny-assembly-ok...

https://newrepublic.com/article/142670/andrew-cuomo-profits-republican-s...

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2016/05/another-cu...

https://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/marijuana-legalization-new-yor...

But insinuate how awful Nixon was and how great Cuomo has been for NY all all you want.

BTW I have lived in NY state since 1988.

Have a nice day.

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 7:22pm

On of the articles you linked to

@Steven D stated

I’ll give the governor some credit. He banned fracking, got same-sex marriage passed and established free college tuition at SUNY schools. But he also passed the “SAFE Act” — for which he continues to be reviled upstate — after the Sandy Hook shootings.

Those look to me like some pretty decent achievements. Free tuition? Isn't that one of the things we loved Bernie for? That alone might give him the vote of every voter with college aged kids.

My question about Nixon campaigning remains. "Meeting with community leaders" in discussions closed to the press and non-leader voters as well does not constitute campaigning. How many county fairs did she visit? How many town halls did she hold? Town halls, you know, those fora where a candidate presents him or her self in front of everyday voters, listens to them rant and answers their questions? When and where were those?

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by Wink on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 9:23pm

Many. She was not

invisible by any stretch,
@Nastarana
ran a good campaign.
You're stirring something that didn't exist.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Steven D on Mon, 09/17/2018 - 3:00pm

Read again

@Nastarana You didn't read that free tuition thing very well. Very restrictive on who can use it and limits ability to move out of state.

Fracking was banned thanks to activists not Cuomo who initially supported it until too many in his own party objected because of activist pressure.

https://inthesetimes.com/article/17697/new_york_fracking_ban1

Karen Scharff, Executive Director of Citizen Action of New York, says, “There were so many times when the Cuomo administration offered different versions of compromises, thinking they could divide people, but the coalition stuck with its demand.”

One such instance occurred when the administration, having already proposed banning fracking in the New York City and Syracuse watersheds, floated the idea of pilot projects in the state’s Southern Tier. But the movement immediately squashed that notion, insistently demanding at rallies, in press statements, and in social media, “Not one well!”

We targeted Cuomo

At one memorable coalition meeting, a colleague pounded his fist on the table, declaring that our strategy should be “Cuomo, Cuomo, Cuomo!” Indeed, we were laser-focused on pressuring Governor Cuomo, providing cohesion to the movement and its tactics and messaging across the state.

It’s an organizing maxim that you can’t take on City Hall, but you can take on the mayor. We were committed to the notion that we had one decision-maker who we should direct all our energy towards and his name was Andrew Cuomo.

It made sense. Cuomo once infamously told the New York Daily News, “I am the government,” and it is widely understood that all important decisions—and many unimportant ones, too—are made by him.

He came out for same sex marriage once it was clear there was no opposition to it. He didn't do much to get it made legal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_New_York

He's a fake progressive.

Your continued praise for him makes me think you are either being deliberately obtuse or you are a shill for the type of corporate controlled, Big money donor recipient, neoliberal Democrats of which Cuomo is a proud member.

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by Mark from Queens on Mon, 09/17/2018 - 6:25pm

Thanks Steven.

@Steven D @Steven D
You nailed it.

I’d add that his prime job has been to protect the Economic Terrorists of Wall St, who are among his biggest donors. Did that by abandoning the Moreland Commission. Also refused to even levy a half %,point tax on computer-generated high speed financial transactions, which have been one of the primary ways they falsely inflate an already bloated and subject-to-serious-criminality stock market.

There’s more too, but don’t have the time.

#2.1 You didn't read that free tuition thing very well. Very restrictive on who can use it and limits ability to move out of state. Fracking was banned thanks to activists not Cuomo who initially supported it until too many in his own party objected because of activist pressure. https://inthesetimes.com/article/17697/new_york_fracking_ban1 Karen Scharff, Executive Director of Citizen Action of New York, says, “There were so many times when the Cuomo administration offered different versions of compromises, thinking they could divide people, but the coalition stuck with its demand.” One such instance occurred when the administration, having already proposed banning fracking in the New York City and Syracuse watersheds, floated the idea of pilot projects in the state’s Southern Tier. But the movement immediately squashed that notion, insistently demanding at rallies, in press statements, and in social media, “Not one well!” We targeted Cuomo At one memorable coalition meeting, a colleague pounded his fist on the table, declaring that our strategy should be “Cuomo, Cuomo, Cuomo!” Indeed, we were laser-focused on pressuring Governor Cuomo, providing cohesion to the movement and its tactics and messaging across the state. It’s an organizing maxim that you can’t take on City Hall, but you can take on the mayor. We were committed to the notion that we had one decision-maker who we should direct all our energy towards and his name was Andrew Cuomo. It made sense. Cuomo once infamously told the New York Daily News, “I am the government,” and it is widely understood that all important decisions—and many unimportant ones, too—are made by him. He came out for same sex marriage once it was clear there was no opposition to it. He didn't do much to get it made legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_New_York He's a fake progressive. Your continued praise for him makes me think you are either being deliberately obtuse or you are a shill for the type of corporate controlled, Big money donor recipient, neoliberal Democrats of which Cuomo is a proud member.

—

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 5:15pm

With sny, I disagree that "progressives" were "drooling"

over Nixon. As with Obama, she was saying things people wanted to hear and running against someone they didn't like. (At first, in 2007- 2008, Obama, of course, spent more time running against Bush, from whom Obama promised change, than he spent running against Hillary.)

For his part, Cuomo seemed corrupt and certainly more of the same. And those who consider themselves to the left of the Democratic Party establishment, of which Cuomo is as much a part as Hillary, don't want more of the same. It may be that the WFP, which endorsed Nixon in the Dem primary, can make Nixon its nominee? I hope so.

BTW, this article both shows that Nixon did campaign in upstate NY (Albany, in this instance) and describes a suspect last-minute cancellation by not one, but two Buffalo venues that her campaign had booked: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo/2018/04/buffalo_venues_reject_cyn...

What about the Green Party candidate? I vote Green, but with no expectation that a Green is going to win the Presidency or even a gubernatorial primary. Additionally, I think you answered your own question when your post referred to the Green Party candidate as only "the Green Party candidate." And then, there is always the issue of money: With only about a $ million in funds and no incumbency advantage, Nixon had a hard time against Cuomo, who raised $31 million ($35 million, according to Politico), as well as having the incumbency advantage.

As to funding for "the Green Party candidate:"

The NYS Board of Elections limits Green Party candidates for governor to accepting individual donations up to $44,000 for the general election and $7,000 for the primary over a four-year cycle.

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/news/2018/08/who_is_funding_howie_hawkins...

Those limits are academic in this context, as Hawkins raised only $50,000 and, of course, has next to no name recognition. However, I am not sure how Hawkins, "the Green Party candidate," figures into a critique of the Democratic primary.

As far as Letitia James, I know nothing, but I usually start with wikipedia and then google in general, which you no doubt have already done. Whether she even WANTS to change police practice is the first consideration.

ETA: It appears that the Working Families Party did not only endorse Nixon against Cuomo, but also made her their gubernatorial nominee. However, she has not yet said whether she will continue an active campaign.

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 7:03pm

The second

@HenryAWallace article you linked says that Hawkins had 226,000 as of Aug. 30. If he is a "perennial candidate" as wiki sniffed, it is because he wants to keep the Green party viable.

over Nixon. As with Obama, she was saying things people wanted to hear and running against someone they didn't like. (At first, in 2007- 2008, Obama, of course, spent more time running against Bush, from whom Obama promised change, than he spent running against Hillary.) For his part, Cuomo seemed corrupt and certainly more of the same. And those who consider themselves to the left of the Democratic Party establishment, of which Cuomo is as much a part as Hillary, don't want more of the same. It may be that the WFP, which endorsed Nixon in the Dem primary, can make Nixon its nominee? I hope so. BTW, this article both shows that Nixon did campaign in upstate NY (Albany, in this instance) and describes a suspect last-minute cancellation by not one, but two Buffalo venues that her campaign had booked: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo/2018/04/buffalo_venues_reject_cyn... What about the Green Party candidate? I vote Green, but with no expectation that a Green is going to win the Presidency or even a gubernatorial primary. Additionally, I think you answered your own question when your post referred to the Green Party candidate as only "the Green Party candidate." And then, there is always the issue of money: With only about a $ million in funds and no incumbency advantage, Nixon had a hard time against Cuomo, who raised $31 million ($35 million, according to Politico), as well as having the incumbency advantage. As to funding for "the Green Party candidate:" The NYS Board of Elections limits Green Party candidates for governor to accepting individual donations up to $44,000 for the general election and $7,000 for the primary over a four-year cycle. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/news/2018/08/who_is_funding_howie_hawkins... Those limits are academic in this context, as Hawkins raised only $50,000 and, of course, has next to no name recognition. However, I am not sure how Hawkins, "the Green Party candidate," figures into a critique of the Democratic primary. As far as Letitia James, I know nothing, but I usually start with wikipedia and then google in general, which you no doubt have already done. Whether she even WANTS to change police practice is the first consideration. ETA: It appears that the Working Families Party did not only endorse Nixon against Cuomo, but also made her their gubernatorial nominee. However, she has not yet said whether she will continue an active campaign.

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by Big Al on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 1:28pm

Are you suggesting people should have experience

serving in public office to qualify for serving in public office? Actually, one option to potentially bring actual democracy to this country is to run citizen lotteries to select public officials. It seems like the more experience our public officials get, the more corrupted to the establishment they become. Term limits are also an option to prevent the system from devolving into career politicians beholden to the system and those that control it.
That's not to defend Nixon who ran with the democratic war party which automatically disqualifies her in my book.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 5:24pm

During 2015-16, did we not hear again and again that

@Big Al

that Hillary's experience made her the best qualified Presidential candidate in the entire history of the United States? At that time, a KOS post opined about Hillary's alleged qualificiations, "Job titles do not accomplishments make," or words to that effect. And it was true: lots of job titles, not much by way of accomplishment, though.

I'm not a sports fan, but I've read that Babe Ruth was great, no matter what position they had him play. Whether or not that is so, I'm a fan of "the best athlete" theory of hiring, meaning I'd take a chance on a smart, motivated person's doing a great job no matter where in the company I placed him or her.

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 6:24pm

Dear HenryAWallace,

@HenryAWallace did you find Nixon to be smart and motivated? If you did, could please explain what I am missing.

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by Wink on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 9:26pm

apparently a lot. n/t

@Nastarana

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Nastarana on Mon, 09/17/2018 - 10:10am

Perhaps you might like

@Wink to share that insight with the voters who did stay with Cuomo.

Daily Mail is pointing out that Williams got more votes than Nixon, mostly from NYC and surrounding areas. I can't help but wonder if a better candidate at the top of the ticket might not have helped put him over the top.

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 09/18/2018 - 1:59am

I did. Both smart and

motivated. She didn't
@Nastarana
campaign from her couch, eating Ho Hos all day long.
She busted her ass. She might not be Teachout in the brains dept., but she's no dummy, knows the issues, and is most certainly to the Left of Mario Jr.
Much voter suppression in the Bronx - big surprise - or it would have been much closer, more like 56-44. Saying the "official count" didn't reflect the race.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Mon, 09/17/2018 - 8:11am

Babe Ruth began as a pitcher

@HenryAWallace

but once his mighty bat began to manifest, he was switched to the outfield so he could play every single day. (IIRC he would occasionally pitch in exhibition games, and was mighty tough to hit.)

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 2:01pm

It would seem that

James has lots of relevant experience to take to the JD.

I had no intention of implying that Cuomo is "good for NY". As a newcomer, I simply don't know if he is or not. I do find it entertaining to watch his various shenanigans. I stand by my assertion that NY seems to me far better governed than CA--waiting in line at DMV only takes about 5 min, not 2-3 hrs., and the staff are even fairly civil, for example. However, I don't know how much credit should go to the governor.

I would still like to know, why Nixon? Just for the name recognition? Was there no one else?

Thank you everyone for the links, which I am not able to look at now.

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 4:50pm

Another link you may want to look at when you have time:

@Nastarana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_gubernatorial_election,_2018

Among other things, it answers your question about whether anyone besides Nixon challenged Cuomo for the Democratic nomination.

My prior response already gave my best guess as to why people rallied around Nixon and I think the others who replied to your OP gave their best answers, too.

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 6:55pm

I just read the wiki link you provided, thank you.

@HenryAWallace On May 23, the Dim. party convention nominated Cuomo, and then after that Nixon submitted signatures to get herself on the ballot for the Sept. 13 primary. So, that gave her June, July and August to introduce herself to voters. She seems to have garnered the I hate Cuomo vote which apparently amounts to about a third of Dimocrats.

She will still be on the ballot on the WFP line, as will Mr. Williams, but she "hasn't decided" if she wants to continue to campaign. Huh? If she decides she had rather not, thanks but no thanks, what happens to the WFP? Will they even secure the 50,000 votes they need to be on the ballot next election?

I am afraid my response so far is if she doesn't care, I don't care. As of right now, I will be voting for Hawkins, who at least seems like an honest man.

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by Wink on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 9:13pm

Howie has run for

every office there is over the last 20, 25 years. He runs every two years, picks up a handful of votes. Rinse, repeat. As for Nixon, why did we embrace her? "Anybody but Cuomo," and she proved her energy and commitment. Yes, she campaigned upstate. Often. Hers was Not a subway campaign, held many a "Town Hall" up here.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Nastarana on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 9:20pm

Thank you to everyone who left links.

I have one for you.

https://theintercept.com/2018/09/15/jess-king-pennsylvania-lancaster-sta...

A somewhat long and winding article but worth reading. Jess King holds 11 town hall meetings with voters in ONE WEEKEND.

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Mon, 09/17/2018 - 4:29pm

"Green Party candidate for governor"

May we please name my friend Howie Hawkins?

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by Nastarana on Mon, 09/17/2018 - 5:08pm

Apologies for forgetting

@Cassiodorus your friend's name and as of right now I do plan to vote for him.

How do you respond to the complaint made above about him being a perennial candidate?

—

Mary Bennett

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Tue, 09/18/2018 - 9:44am

Someone has to run.

@Nastarana Now, I'm not from New York so I'm not going to comment upon its politics. But I'm at a loss to understand America's faith in the Democratic Party. When Obama was President the Democrats gave up 900 state legislative seats to the Republicans, and nobody in the Party so much as batted an eyelash at this phenomenon.

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by Nastarana on Tue, 09/18/2018 - 1:13pm

Moi also, Cassiodorus.

@Cassiodorus I departed from the Dims in 2010 and have not looked back.

—

Mary Bennett