@Ellen North
Thank you for all of this. Often at caucus99percent I wonder if and when we will have a day to look at 9/11 together. I think we will. It's so important.

But I am the oldest, longest dedicated, and most dedicated conspiracy theorist you will ever meet.

I think Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was trained at Harvey Point in North Carolina in explosives design and detonation because he studied at a small college nearby during the time we trained jihadists there. That's why I think he was tortured, so that all that he confessed to will be inadmissible in court. They don't want him in a courtroom because he's ours.

I am very interested in the anthrax attack, and I want you to remember that Cheney also tried to mislead the public into believing the anthrax came from Saddam, and that the meeting in Prague with Atta was for the purpose of giving him the spores. I think anthrax is possibly the reason our elected officials fold when confronted by the Deep State, because they're told that unless they follow orders there will be another attack, much larger than the first one.

Peter Lance has documented that the FBI was told in 1995 of the plan by Ramzi Yousef to crash planes into the buildings attacked on 9/11 plus several more. That is why the FBI was monitoring flight schools for jihadist students right up until 9/11.

I think the PNAC paper pointing out the need for a new Pearl Harbor was not so much an advocacy for such an attack as a justification for letting it happen, because they knew there was ample evidence that the highest level of our government knew about it in advance.

They let it happen. On purpose. The PNAC paper is an explanation of why.

#2.1.1.1

This is the same Architects and Engineers group whose videos and detailed explanations convinced me.

The overwhelming evidence and the number of professionals/experts pointing to such evidence explains the amount of effort put into convincing people to dismiss such 'CT claims' without examining the evidence, because the official claims in no manner cover/explain the circumstances.

And honestly, anyone who feels absolutely convinced that the criminal polluting industry representatives within the Bush administration would - apparently simply by virtue of having attained/been cheated into/appointed to public office - never, ever lie, cheat, risk damage to airplanes or buildings to profit anyone or risk Americans suffering and dying in the interest of an excuse for invading oil-rich countries needs to read more. Including the *torture report, perhaps? Maybe even take a look at the Bush Admin disaster response to Katrina victims. 'Heck of a job' done on those people... Personally, I'd put nothing above them, going by their own actions and characters.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html

There are other expert groups as well.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/UA93_Press_Release.html

Best to read this in full at source, if device used permits - but this is essential reading, this shows what we're facing.

* http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/media-focusing-wrong-senate-tor...

The Media Is Focusing On the WRONG Senate Torture Report
George Washington's picture
by George Washington
Dec 12, 2014

The Big Story Torture Everyone Is Missing

While the torture report released by the Senate Intelligence Committee is very important, it doesn’t address the big scoop regarding torture.

Instead, it is the Senate Armed Services Committee’s report that dropped the big bombshell regarding the U.S. torture program.

Senator Levin, commenting on a Armed Services Committee’s report on torture in 2009, explained:

The techniques are based on tactics used by Chinese Communists against American soldiers during the Korean War for the purpose of eliciting FALSE confessions for propaganda purposes. Techniques used in SERE training include stripping trainees of their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, subjecting them to face and body slaps, depriving them of sleep, throwing them up against a wall, confining them in a small box, treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures [and] waterboarding.

McClatchy filled in important details:

Former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration…

For most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there.”

It was during this period that CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly — Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 — according to a newly released Justice Department document…

When people kept coming up empty, they were told by Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people to push harder,” he continued.” Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people were told repeatedly, by CIA . . . and by others, that there wasn’t any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam . . . ...

... Levin recalled Cheney’s assertions that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer had met Mohammad Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, in the Czech Republic capital of Prague just months before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

The FBI and CIA found that no such meeting occurred.

The Washington Post reported the same year:

Despite what you’ve seen on TV, torture is really only good at one thing: eliciting false confessions. Indeed, Bush-era torture techniques, we now know, were cold-bloodedly modeled after methods used by Chinese Communists to extract confessions from captured U.S. servicemen that they could then use for propaganda during the Korean War.

So as shocking as the latest revelation in a new Senate Armed Services Committee report may be, it actually makes sense — in a nauseating way. The White House started pushing the use of torture not when faced with a “ticking time bomb” scenario from terrorists, but when officials in 2002 were desperately casting about for ways to tie Iraq to the 9/11 attacks — in order to strengthen their public case for invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 at all.
***
Gordon Trowbridge writes for the Detroit News: “Senior Bush administration officials pushed for the use of abusive interrogations of terrorism detainees in part to seek evidence to justify the invasion of Iraq, according to newly declassified information discovered in a congressional probe.

As Truthout reported:

[Torture architect] Jessen’s notes were provided to Truthout by retired Air Force Capt. Michael Kearns, a “master” SERE instructor and decorated veteran who has previously held high-ranking positions within the Air Force Headquarters Staff and Department of Defense (DoD).

***
The Jessen notes clearly state the totality of what was being reverse-engineered – not just ‘enhanced interrogation techniques,’ but an entire program of exploitation of prisoners using torture as a central pillar,” he said. “What I think is important to note, as an ex-SERE Resistance to Interrogation instructor, is the focus of Jessen’s instruction. It is EXPLOITATION, not specifically interrogation. And this is not a picayune issue, because if one were to ‘reverse-engineer’ a course on resistance to exploitation then what one would get is a plan to exploit prisoners, not interrogate them. The CIA/DoD torture program appears to have the same goals as the terrorist organizations or enemy governments for which SV-91 and other SERE courses were created to defend against: the full exploitation of the prisoner in his intelligence, propaganda, or other needs held by the detaining power, such as the recruitment of informers and double agents. Those aspects of the US detainee program have not generally been discussed as part of the torture story in the American press.”

In a subsequent report, Truthout notes:

Air Force Col. Steven Kleinman, a career military intelligence officer recognized as one of the DOD’s most effective interrogators as well a former SERE instructor and director of intelligence for JPRA’s teaching academy, said …. “This is the guidebook to getting false confessions, a system drawn specifically from the communist interrogation model that was used to generate propaganda rather than intelligence” …. “If your goal is to obtain useful and reliable information this is not the source book you should be using.”

Interrogators also forced detainees to take drugs … which further impaired their ability to tell the truth.

And one of the two main architects of the torture program admitted this week on camera:

You can get people to say anything to stop harsh interrogations if you apply them in a way that does that.

And false confessions were, in fact, extracted.

For example:

A humanitarian aid worker said: torture only stopped when I pretended I was in Al Qaeda

Under torture, Libyan Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi falsely claimed there was a link between Saddam Hussein, al-Qaida and WMD

President Bush mentioned Abu Zubaydah as a success story, where torture saved lives. Zubaydah was suspected of being a high-ranking al-Qaida leader. Bush administration officials claimed Zubaydah told them that al-Qaida had links with Saddam Hussein. He also claimed there was a plot to attack Washington with a “dirty bomb”. Both claims are now recognized to be false, even by the CIA, which also admits he was never a member of al-Qaida.

One of the Main Sources for the 9/11 Commission Report was Tortured Until He Agreed to Sign a Confession that He Was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO READ

The so-called 9/11 mastermind said: “During … my interrogation I gave a lot of false information in order to satisfy what I believed the interrogators wished to hear” (the self-confessed 9/11 “mastermind” falsely confessed to crimes he didn’t commit)

And the 9/11 Commission Report was largely based on a third-hand account of what tortured detainees said, with two of the three parties in the communication being government employees. And the government went to great lengths to obstruct justice and hide unflattering facts from the Commission.

According to NBC News:

Much of the 9/11 Commission Report was based upon the testimony of people who were tortured

At least four of the people whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators information as a way to stop being “tortured.”

The 9/11 Commission itself doubted the accuracy of the torture confessions, and yet kept their doubts to themselves

Details here.

Today, Raymond McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials – provides details about one torture victim (Al-Libi) at former Newsweek and AP reporter Robert Parry's website:

But if it’s bad intelligence you’re after, torture works like a charm. If, for example, you wish to “prove,” post 9/11, that “evil dictator” Saddam Hussein was in league with al-Qaeda and might arm the terrorists with WMD, bring on the torturers.

It is a highly cynical and extremely sad story, but many Bush administration policymakers wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11 and thus were determined to connect Saddam Hussein to those attacks. The PR push began in September 2002 – or as Bush’s chief of staff Andrew Card put it, “From a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August.”

By March 2003 – after months of relentless “marketing” – almost 70 percent of Americans had been persuaded that Saddam Hussein was involved in some way with the attacks of 9/11. ...

... Paul Krugman [whatever you think of his economics, he got this one right] eloquently summarized the truth about the torture used:

Let’s say this slowly: the Bush administration wanted to use 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So it tortured people to make them confess to the nonexistent link.

There’s a word for this: it’s evil.

Torture Program Was Part of a Con Job

As discussed above, in order to “justify” the Iraq war, top Bush administration officials pushed and insisted that interrogators use special torture methods aimed at extracting false confessions to attempt to create a false linkage between between Al Qaida and Iraq. And see this and this.

But this effort started earlier …
5 hours after the 9/11 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said “my interest is to hit Saddam”.

He also said “Go massive . . . Sweep it all up. Things related and not.”

And at 2:40 p.m. on September 11th, in a memorandum of discussions between top administration officials, several lines below the statement “judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. [that is, Saddam Hussein] at same time”, is the statement “Hard to get a good case.” In other words, top officials knew that there wasn’t a good case that Hussein was behind 9/11, but they wanted to use the 9/11 attacks as an excuse to justify war with Iraq anyway.

Moreover, “Ten days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President Bush was told in a highly classified briefing that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein to the [9/11] attacks and that there was scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda”.

And a Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary issued in February 2002 by the United States Defense Intelligence Agency cast significant doubt on the possibility of a Saddam Hussein-al-Qaeda conspiracy.

And yet Bush, Cheney and other top administration officials claimed repeatedly for years that Saddam was behind 9/11. See this analysis. Indeed, Bush administration officials apparently swore in a lawsuit that Saddam was behind 9/11.

Moreover, President Bush’s March 18, 2003 letter to Congress authorizing the use of force against Iraq, includes the following paragraph:

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Therefore, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war to Congress by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks.

Indeed, Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Ron Suskind reports that the White House ordered the CIA to forge and backdate a document falsely linking Iraq with Muslim terrorists and 9/11 … and that the CIA complied with those instructions and in fact created the forgery, which was then used to justify war against Iraq. And see this.

Suskind also revealed that “Bush administration had information from a top Iraqi intelligence official ‘that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq – intelligence they received in plenty of time to stop an invasion.’ ”

Cheney made the false linkage between Iraq and 9/11 on many occasions.

For example, according to Raw Story, Cheney was still alleging a connection between Iraq and the alleged lead 9/11 hijacker in September 2003 – a year after it had been widely debunked. When NBC’s Tim Russert asked him about a poll showing that 69% of Americans believed Saddam Hussein had been involved in 9/11, Cheney replied:

It’s not surprising that people make that connection.

And even after the 9/11 Commission debunked any connection, Cheney said that the evidence is “overwhelming” that al Qaeda had a relationship with Saddam Hussein’s regime , that Cheney “probably” had information unavailable to the Commission, and that the media was not ‘doing their homework’ in reporting such ties.

Again, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks. See this, this, this.

Even then-CIA director George Tenet said that the White House wanted to invade Iraq long before 9/11, and inserted “crap” in its justifications for invading Iraq.

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill – who sat on the National Security Council – also says that Bush planned the Iraq war before 9/11.

Top British officials say that the U.S. discussed Iraq regime change even before Bush took office.

And in 2000, Cheney said a Bush administration might “have to take military action to forcibly remove Saddam from power.” And see this.

The administration’s false claims about Saddam and 9/11 helped convince a large portion of the American public to support the invasion of Iraq. While the focus now may be on false WMD claims, it is important to remember that, at the time, the alleged link between Iraq and 9/11 was at least as important in many people’s mind as a reason to invade Iraq.

So the torture program was really all about “justifying” the ultimate war crime: launching an unnecessary war of aggression based upon false pretenses.

Postscript: It is beyond any real dispute that torture does not work to produce any useful, truthful intelligence. Today, the following question made it to the front page of Reddit:

Why would the CIA torture if torture “doesn’t work”? Wouldn’t they want the most effective tool to gather intelligence?

The Senate Armed Services Committee report gave the answer.

Can you really be certain that these people were, at best, stupid and incompetent enough to have ignored persistent warnings of intelligence indicating an attack, telling messengers that 'You've covered your butt, now go away'?

Please, if possible, go here (to 'Cheney Admits that He Lied about 9/11', below) and follow the links, especially these following, which may explain a great deal:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/09/big-brother-has-come-to-the-birth...

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/02/america-might-be-a-more-gilded-ca...

On the continued-since-Bush-Admin-initiation on 9/11 and certainly up to 2011 by Obama 'continuity of government orders' creating a 'shadow government' of 'civilian managers' of which many in Congress had no idea at time of interview and information regarding which kept secret even from Homeland Security, but it's thought that this 'shadow government' might be functioning outside of the US Constitution - all on the excuse of '9/11'.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/03/cheney-admits-that-he-lied-about-...

Cheney Admits that He Lied about 9/11
Posted on March 8, 2013 by WashingtonsBlog
What Else Did He Lie About?

The New York Times’ Maureen Dowd writes today:

In a documentary soon to appear on Showtime, “The World According to Dick Cheney,” [Cheney said] “I got on the telephone with the president, who was in Florida, and told him not to be at one location where we could both be taken out.” Mr. Cheney kept W. flying aimlessly in the air on 9/11 while he and Lynn left on a helicopter for a secure undisclosed location, leaving Washington in a bleak, scared silence, with no one reassuring the nation in those first terrifying hours.

“I gave the instructions that we’d authorize our pilots to take it out,” he says, referring to the jet headed to Washington that crashed in a Pennsylvania field. He adds: “After I’d given the order, it was pretty quiet. Everybody had heard it, and it was obviously a significant moment.”

***

When they testified together before the 9/11 Commission, W. and Mr. Cheney kept up a pretense that in a previous call, the president had authorized the vice president to give a shoot-down order if needed. But the commission found “no documentary evidence for this call.”

In other words, Cheney pretended that Bush had authorized a shoot-down order, but Cheney now admits that he never did. In fact, Cheney acted as if he was the president on 9/11. *

Cheney lied about numerous other facts related to 9/11 as well. For example, Cheney:

Falsely linked Iraq with 9/11 (indeed, the entire torture program was aimed at establishing such a false linkage; and Cheney is the guy who pushed for torture, pressured the Justice Department lawyers to write memos saying torture was legal, and made the pitch to Congress justifying torture. The former director of the CIA said Cheney oversaw American torture policies)

Falsely claimed that spying on Americans, torture, the Patriot Act, the Afghanistan war, the Iraq war and the “war on terror” were all necessitated by 9/11 … when all of them started or were planned before 9/11

Falsely stated that an attack such as 9/11 was unforeseeable, when Al Qaeda flying planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon was something which American military and intelligence services – and our allies – knew could happen

Falsely pretended that he was out of the loop during the 9/11 attacks

Falsely blamed others for 9/11, when Cheney was in charge of all of America’s co unter-terrorism exercises, activities and responses on 9/11. See this Department of State announcement and this CNN article …

… And when Cheney was apparently responsible for letting the Pentagon get hit by an airplane (confirmed here and here)

And was instrumental in squashing a real investigation into 9/11

* Indeed, Cheney initiated Continuity of Government plans on 9/11 which essentially nullified America’s constitutional form of government.

I haven't followed all of the above links this time, but there are too many indications that the Bush Admin, among others, may not have been entirely truthful (or sane) and that there was too much hay made out of 9/11 for any assumptions that the thwarted investigation into 9/11 should not be revived and completed as well as still is possible.

And I'm posting an awful lot in here, but some stuff just vanished from my draft page and dunno how long any of this might remain; I hope that people will pay attention to this and look into it, not just swallow the corporate party propaganda, exploded 'debunking' and defenses intended to encourage people to ignore anything beyond the official stories, while Bush is being paraded as a 'hero'.

I also fear another, worse Black Flag spree intended to justify nuking multiple countries and we must not fall for any such further attempts.

@FreeSociety @FreeSociety
thank you so much for this concise description. As I responded to Ellen, I am a serious and dedicated conspiracy theorist. I believe it is much more likely that the buildings were blown up with explosives than that they just pancaked downward because of fire. Concrete pulverizing to dust seems impossible otherwise. And I've read about the Port Authority's concerns about the buildings ever needing to be demolished, the enormous contaminations involved, the costs, so given they were known terrorist targets, it's more likely they were set to be blown up in case of an attack than that they were left to be badly damaged, as had happened in the 1993 attack.

#2.1.1.1

Hi Linda, keep in mind that if the "official" description of the collapse were true, and all the core columns simultaneously melted from fire (which never happened before), and in synchronized fashion to the point where all the floors just fell at once..... you still would have the result of a pancaked building --- and not a building imploding into bits and pieces --- to the point of fine dust clouds.

The pictures alone (never mind audio recordings of explosions going off) make quite clear this was not a collapse due to fire or heat.

And then, of course, we have the unusual substance nano thermite that was found at the site, which is used expressly for the purpose of demolition.

@Linda Wood in light of 2000 and 2004 election "irregularities." Remind me again why anyone saw any hope in the Democratic Party after 1988...

#4.1.1.4 #4.1.1.4
Putin is running our elections. The Saudi Arabian government is running our government. They're running our foreign policy. They're running our war, which means our they're running our military.

Booz Allen Hamilton is a private security contractor for the Saudi government, providing security services that allow that psychopathic dictatorship to spy on its people and behead and crucify their citizens for criticizing or even joking about the government.

The fact that the Saudi government funded Al Qaeda right up until 9/11 means Booz Allen Hamilton should be under surveillance by the NSA. But no! The most important revelation to come from Edward Snowden is that he worked, not for the NSA, but for Booz Allen Hamilton, who runs the NSA, as it has been privatized. To a contractor protecting the security of our enemy!

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal deliberately ignored and there is a paper trail to back that one up.

A friend of ours daughter came back from school [in France] the day of 9-11, the first words out of her mouth when she heard the news were- Bin Laden.

#5.1.1.1 I think I'm one too. Does it include thinking that there was enough evidence to warrant investigation of the idea that Bush et al sat back and allowed it to happen?

Because that's where I'm at.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal This pretty much summarizes where I am at too. The more I read and learn, the more skeptical I am about every part of the "official story." Too much does not add up.

#5.1.1.1 I think I'm one too. Does it include thinking that there was enough evidence to warrant investigation of the idea that Bush et al sat back and allowed it to happen?

Because that's where I'm at.