Anti-Capitalist Meetup: Maslow's hierarchy, inalienable rights, and constitutional reinterpretation

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"A fairy tale in realist drag, 'The Pursuit of Happyness' is the kind of entertainment that goes down smoothly until it gets stuck in your craw. Inspired by a true story, as they like to say in Hollywood, the film traces the fleeting ups and frightening downs of Chris Gardner, whose efforts to keep his family from sinking into poverty evolve into a life-and-death struggle of social Darwinian proportions. It’s the early 1980s, and while Ronald Reagan is delivering the bad economic news on television, Chris is about to prove you don’t need an army to fight the war on poverty, just big smiles and smarts, and really sturdy shoes." Excerpt of Manohla Dargis's NYT review of the 2006 Columbia Pictures movie. (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2006/12/15/movies/15happ.html?referer=)

Solidarity requires us not only to fight for the common good but also to think for the common good. We must not cede thinking to the tax-deductible think tanks continuously feeding the billionaires’ grist into the cultural mills. Abstention from the culture wars is not a humane option. Right-wing cultural views have nefarious substantive outcomes for the working class, including PoC, women, children, LGBTs, and immigrants, not to mention straight U.S.-born white male workers. Since the God-fearing Puritans stole the land of the native Massachusetts people, the culture wars were a vital part of how the west was “won" and the hulls of slaving ships built, filled, and insured.

In the service of divide and rule, and cloaked in historical rhetoric, anti-women legislators will continue to co-opt “the right to life,” billionaire faux libertarians “the right to liberty,” and Wall Street swindlers the bootstraps version of “the pursuit of happiness.” Rather than withdrawing from the culture wars, the left must take these wars to an intellectually vibrant, strategic, and structurally comprehensive level, one that threatens the ruling class-cherished but largely unchallenged assumptions of the legal system.

A government that is democratic in pretense but focused on divide and rule in effect relies on continual unacknowledged propaganda by and for the ruling class. Yet, if we dare to squint we can begin to see through the constant engulfing emissions from the legalistic mist machines an authentically humane city on the hill after all. If we the divided democratic masses have the vision to see the very words that are used to misinform and manipulate us we might one day democratically seize the power to reinterpret these words.

While the pitiful nature of U.S. politics was birthed by the so-called founding fathers, these privileged white males signed on to broad precepts in the Declaration of Independence and later the Constitution that can provide functionally humane hope. This hope is unlikely to materialize, despite objective conditions, in part because a commodified judicial, bar, and legal education establishment refuses to support even the free visualization of functionally humane meaning to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and other inalienable rights.

Facilitating a culture of loving visualization is the starting place for the flowering of a loving society. Loving visualization is impeded by a legal culture that serves the economic objectives of the ruling class and the ancillary, mercenary ends of their pet judges, lawyers, and law professors. If it is to succeed, political revolution must deeply address the legal culture. This is not at all a call for anti-democratic thought, much less authoritarianism, but rather a call for we as the people to take over "our" words, the ones through which we were and are deemed to "consent” to be governed. The constitutional framework for logical reinterpretation exists if the working class will begin to comprehend and demand the fulfillment of its inalienable rights. This may involve studying the theories of more than one Brooklyn-born Jew.

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In the middle of the Second World War, two years after Bernie Sanders was born, Abraham H. Maslow, the son of Russian immigrants, published his seminal article in Psychological Review, "A Theory of Human Motivation.” (http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Maslow/motivation.htm) He continued to work out his theory for more than a decade when the book Motivation and Personality was published. (http://s-f-walker.org.uk/pubsebooks/pdfs/Motivation_and_Personality-Masl...)

I’m not a Sanders idolator much less a Maslow acolyte, but I do think the Sanders candidacy, and in particular his use of "rights” language in reference to health care, can represent the beginning of a mature conversation about not only the meeting of needs in a caring society but also the rights to have those needs met. In contrast to Sanders, Maslow was not at all a political thinker per se. But his thoughts have political implications that he could not completely brush aside, despite his sometimes efforts to do so.

Consider this random description from "A Theory of Human Motivation" and whether it was merely a product of its perilous time:

Some neurotic adults in our society are, in many ways, like the unsafe child in their desire for safety, although in the former it takes on a somewhat special appearance. Their reaction is often to unknown, psychological dangers in a world that is perceived to be hostile, overwhelming and threatening. Such a person behaves as if a great catastrophe were almost always impending, i.e., he is usually responding as if to an emergency. His safety needs often find specific expression in a search for a protector, or a stronger person on whom he may depend, or perhaps, a Fuehrer.
I will not attempt to summarize his thoughts on basic needs, but suffice it to say, he states the challenging obvious--that human beings cannot be expected to focus on what the ruling class depicts as “higher” things when their physiological and safety needs are unmet.

He was not saying something particularly new, but he was daring to speak as a psychologist to psychologists about major gaps in their thinking. And his implicitly democratic honesty left room for subsequent gaps in his own thinking to be freely discussed by his admirers.

Tay and Diener in their 2011 article on “Needs and Subjective Well-Being Around the World” made an exhaustive empirical critique of Maslow. (http://academic.udayton.edu/jackbauer/Readings%20595/Tay%20Diener%2011%2...) They found much that was validated and that portions not validated pointed in the direction of the need for greater human cooperation not less:

Need theories hypothesize that there are universal needs and that they are not substitutable for each other. Supporting this, we found evidence of universality and also substantial independence in the effects of the needs on SWB. We also observed that the needs tend be achieved in a certain order but that the order in which they are achieved does not strongly influence their effects on SWB. Motivational prepotency does not mean that fulfilling needs “out of order” is necessarily less fulfilling. Thus, humans can derive “happiness” from simultaneously working on a number of needs regardless of the fulfillment of other needs. This might be why people in impoverished nations, with only modest control over whether their basic needs are fulfilled, can nevertheless find a measure of well-being through social relationships and other psychological needs over which they have more control.

We also found that societal need fulfillment—particularly of basic needs— has effects independent of an individual’s personal need fulfillment, so that it is beneficial to live in a society with others who have their needs fulfilled. Improving one’s own life is not enough; society-wide improvement is also required. Societies have a substantial influence on whether basic and safety needs are fulfilled, whereas individual factors are more associated with whether psychosocial needs are fulfilled.

Across diverse regions of the world, it appears that basic needs are important for life evaluations, whereas social and respect needs are important for positive feelings. The experience of negative feelings is more related to whether basic needs, respect, and autonomy are met.

Clearly, if our objectives include equality and promoting the general welfare, we should look at the welfare of all members of society. Amazingly, in the U.S. legal system such simple truths, even when grounded in the "plain English” of the framers, seem to evade our so-called scholars.

We on the left should not serve those mercenaries or their masters. We should seek and expose the holistic truth. We should relate to Maslow’s work much like we should relate to the work of 19th Century political-economic writers much less 18th Century “enlightened” ruling class framers—as conscious members and allies of the working class. We do not have the luxury of allowing our intellectual influences to be frozen in time.

The same thing must begin to happen with the supposed guardians of the legal system. Which side are they currently on? Overwhelmingly they, consciously or not, even the so-called liberal ones, are on the side of the ruling class. To think that we could build a just society without addressing their mercenary role is ludicrous. While there were gains in the 20th Century, and have been some even in the early 21st Century, too often legal precedent is the quintessential attempt to freeze in time the preferred interpretations of the ruling class.

Here are some concepts in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution that bear not only scrutiny but also in many cases reinterpretation and invigoration for the working class. We can use these words to the advantage of the working class, and even be proud of them, though by and large we cannot be not proud of the people who wrote them and the ways they and generations of legal water carriers have applied them in practice. We must fight for the meaning of these and other foundational words because the enemies of the working class certainly long have and will:

Declaration of Independence

*We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

*That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

*That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

U.S. Constitution

*We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

*The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

*To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

*The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

*Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

*No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

*The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

*All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

The Constitution containing these passages would be "everything it's cracked up to be" if we had actual rule of law in this country.

Instead, we have rule of lawyers in favor of the 0.01%. Whenever these passages (the ones you quoted) are too inconvenient for our Owners and Masters, they direct their lawyer minions to crank out "interpretations" which render them meaningless, such as the notorious "properties of a legal code" objection.

In many cases, restoration of a genuine rule of law would require trashing the entire "common law" concept and actually going to a code law system. The Roman Emperors Julius Caesar, Justinian, and Theodosius I all knew this. The main problem with any legal system tied to "British Common Law" and the infamous Marbury v. Madison decision is that the law isn't what the law says, but whatever the "judges du jour" decide it's going to be this week. How does an ordinary citizen obey law like that? How does that citizen know what his rights are and aren't? There is no way. Under "common law" there may as well be no law at all -- which is pretty much the way it is today for all the American non-rich. The law is what Ownership pays the lawyers to determine it to be.

How many lawyer jokes are there?

ONE. This one. All the others are FACTS.

And, as you point out G, that's got to change.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Galtisalie's picture

Peace and justice be with you. I always learn so much from you. Can you please expand on your "properties of a legal code" point? I'm ignorant on this subject.

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the decision of the judge applies only in the case at hand. In theory, anyway, it does not become binding precedent. For the parties of the lawsuit in question, however, it is judge-made law.

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I can absolutely say I do not have a pet judge.
I can also absolutely say lawyers represent clients. We are no more nor less than client advocates.
I have never sued anyone, nor have I been sued.
I handle legal issues for clients, not myself.
Their case, their problems, not mine.
As for the body of common law, there has to be some way to address problems not codified. We are human. We create problems for ourselves that no legislature could foresee.
I view the horrific legal precedents on the books as coming from appointed judges.
Eliminating lawyers first has been the go to for every coup in every country since lawyers existed. Lawyers are usually the first ones killed.
Do your own divorce. Represent yourself in your own bankruptcy. Go all pro se in probate to inherit grandpa's millions.
And please, please do not call me at 3 a.m. from jail when you get arrested.
Because, I am a lawyer, the butt of jokes.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Galtisalie's picture

I appreciate your work. The shoe may not fit you. How the judiciary, bar, and law professors narrowly interpret language that leaves room for a needs and even rights-based protection of the working class consistent with Maslow's hierarchy is the concern I was trying to advance. The narrow view on the General Welfare clause is one good example.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Those are all valid services. That wasn't my point.

Or mine. We are merely suggesting that some changes to the legal system are necessary for the US Constitution to be "all that it's cracked up to be", as the saying goes. One of those necessary changes -- a recognition that the Constitution means just what it says and says just what it means, rather than constantly being subject to interpretation -- was objected to by some critic in the past, on the grounds that it would "give the Constitution the properties of a legal code". I maintain that the U.S. Constitution in general, and most certainly the Bill of Rights in particular, needs to have those exact properties of a legal code (the law is what the law itself, not opinion, says it is). Again, that's the concept that the great law codifiers in Western history -- Julius Caesar, Justinian, Theodosius I, Napoleon, Pope Pius X -- worked from.

A certain irony exists here, as those changes would systematize on the cusp's chosen line of work and make hir living a great deal less stressful to earn.

And thank you for your kind and loving greeting to me! May 2017 be kind and good to you!

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

I have a chance to help.
I can rip, roar, persuade, make a judge or jury angry, or make them cry, and think. It gives me room.
With code, pull out the cookie cutter.
Look, I went to law school in hopes to make the death penalty illegal. After 10 years, I started scaling back on defense work in order to feed myself.
I went into the areas of law that interested me, and gave no more than 5 seconds of thought about money.
I am, by choice, in the worst place doing the worst body of law on the books to get rich, and I love what I do.
And I do it suffering all kinds of insults.
Nobody ever walks into my office on the best day of their lives.
They come to me on their worst.
For them, not me, I am bold, prepared, and persuasive.
For payment, I accept yard eggs and beer, and $5 monthly payments.
A lawyer is a voice in a courtroom. A place where "legal speak" is where laymen can't quite figure out the magic words and phrases.
I doubt anybody truly understands what a lawyer does until they hire one.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

thanatokephaloides's picture

It is in the area of common law where I have a chance to help.
I can rip, roar, persuade, make a judge or jury angry, or make them cry, and think. It gives me room. With code, pull out the cookie cutter.

My assertion is that there are places where the "cookie cutter" is the appropriate approach. This does not mean that the approach applies to "the whole enchilada" of the law of the land, however.

I'm talking about the most basic level of the law here -- the level at which all adult citizens need to be able to function on a day-by-day basis without help from anyone. This is only a thin layer of the whole of the nation's law. But it is critical. This level of the law of the land needs to be easily and universally understandable, and everyone, high and low, who are subject to this law needs to agree as to its meaning at all times and in all cases. Then that meaning needs to be part of everybody's basic, free-of-charge education. I'm talking basic civics here, not lawyering so much.

I respectfully submit that your job would be easier to do -- and I'm giving you full assumption as to its nature here on the grounds that you know that better than I do! -- were this the case, which it isn't. And unless you were the commenter that objected to the Bill of Rights having the properties of a legal code (which I doubt!) then again we're back to you trying on shoes that don't fit you at all. Bills of Rights should have certain code-law properties. Specifically, anything they assert needs to be the law, valid in and of itself in Constitution and Equity/Statute alike, exactly as stated. Why? Because bills of rights are the type and kind of law I spoke of earlier in this Comment. They exist to spell out what the Citizen's rights are -- and therefore should be immediately comprehensible by every citizen (or at least every literate citizen) without help; and the results need to be the same every time. These are difficulties peculiar to bills of rights, however; and as you point out so well and correctly, there's a lot more to any system of law than that. As an example, I refer back to France's "Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen". The ideals are immediately determinable by anyone literate in French. On the other hand, the implementation of those Rights has caused the French to build no fewer than six different Constitutions (five Republics and one Caesarist government) since 1789 to try and "get it right". Only the Declaration is reliably constant throughout; from an historical viewpoint, all else is in flux.

So it could be worse in one other way, too: you could be practicing law in France! Wink

And my apologies about the lawyer joke. At the very least I should have made it clearer that it was snark.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

janis b's picture

I’m sure they provide valid and beneficial services in many instances.

I do though believe, that lawyers can also provoke conflict, where conflict can be otherwise resolved between reasonable people. I am thinking of my own personal experience of divorce. A lawyer I knew and respected advised us not to do our own divorce, after 22 years of marriage. Although her advice was considered, we had a genuine desire to apply for a divorce on our own, trusting our own personal commitment to fairness and respect for the other. We had a JP sign, paid $200 to the council department for processing, and have never questioned that decision in 6 years.

I am not implying that you, as a lawyer provoke conflict, but I do believe that lawyers can aggravate, rather than alleviate, a difficult situation. Not because they necessarily choose to for mercenary purposes, but because it is often inherent in the nature of law.

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Unfortunately, there are so few of them.
Sorry Counselor, that's as far as I'm willing to go.

When a class of rather well compensated people are the gate-blockers to the courts. for all but the wealthy.
When a profession critical to a just society is self regulated and stinks with ethical conflicts and corruption.
When justice becomes a game about winning and losing rather than about justice and truth.
When a profession washes it's hands and absolves themselves of responsibility for their work pleading they only serve.
It's little wonder the profession would be held in contempt by the people.
Yes, attorneys are but a stage player in the theatre of the absurd we call our justice system and carry not the sole weight of guilt. The entire system they (self?)serve is found incompetent for it's proscribed purpose.
The administration of justice.
Look around counselor, do we live in a just land?
I think no.
What we have is the justice your profession has deigned to provide.
I find the results lacking.

No, I'm no fan of the members of our legal class.
Seems to me we need more good men or a new system.

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

thanatokephaloides's picture

Without good men, who are lawyers,
there would be no justice

Unfortunately, there are so few of them.
Sorry Counselor, that's as far as I'm willing to go.

It does appear that on the cusp is, in fact, a member of that altogether too rare breed, honest hard-working middle class lawyers.

As such, (s)he is showing a certain lack of awareness of just how rare a bird (s)he is.

[snark:]
I would advise hir clients to coat their hands with cyanoacrylate the next time they shake hands with hir, as they do. not. want to lose hir. Ever. Smile
[/snark]

When a class of rather well compensated people are the gate-blockers to the courts. for all but the wealthy.
When a profession critical to a just society is self regulated and stinks with ethical conflicts and corruption.
When justice becomes a game about winning and losing rather than about justice and truth.
When a profession washes it's hands and absolves themselves of responsibility for their work pleading they only serve.
It's little wonder the profession would be held in contempt by the people.

And there are two root causes for this situation, both of which I addressed in my first Comment in this thread:

(1) Non-code law systems, especially those which sovereignize the nebulous "common law" concept, are impossible for ordinary citizens to have even the slightest working knowledge of. What the law is isn't what the written law says it is (that's the core concept of code law) but rather what the judges du jour opine it is. Not only does this make for more work for lawyers, but it makes it ever less possible for ordinary citizens to know enough about the law they are expected to obey to avoid getting into trouble with it.

(2) The problems you cite, at most basic root cause, come from the fact that it costs way too much to create a new lawyer for it to be otherwise. A typical "baby lawyer" is hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in debt on the day (s)he first passes the bar. The day and age of Abraham Lincoln spending years reading law books and then passing the bar exam debtlessly have long since passed into history. The irrepressible fact of natura abhorret a vacuo (nature abhors a vacuum) dictates that professionals with this particular problem to solve will favor those laden with cash over those who aren't. The lawyers' student loans are the vacuum, and the cash of the richest are the high-pressure gas wanting to fill that vacuum up. The direction of the resultant wind can be easily predicted. Sad

My complements, btw, on defending my comment better than I could!

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

I debated what word to use there, fearing this would come up.
'Without good humans' sounded silly to me.
'without good men and women' seemed clunky to me.
So it came down to people or men
I went with 'men' because it's slightly less typing. (not a joke, it's health and typing skills related).
Plus fewer letters takes up less space in a title.
And because I figured the good people here would know I meant men and women.
For the record, I know that women are as capable and as important, as men. I have NO doubts about this.
Further I think that women have had it worse than any other living creature throughout our time on this planet, for they have the human awareness of their maltreatment.
I'm happy to live in a time when women finally have acquired so many of the rights that they should have had long, long ago.
And while a chorus of 'And women' whenever one uses 'men' (meaning as the species, not the sex), annoys me at times.
I don't begrudge it. I just wish it wasn't felt necessary to do so. We have a ways to go still.

My post was meant to indict the profession not slight women, and not all in the profession at that.

My heartfelt thanks goes out to all who better our world in their work.

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

I have always liked shortcuts because I've always been a very poor typist. Now, in addition, I, too, have physical issues that make typing (and many other things) painful and harmful. So I get it--although typing "people," rather than "men" twice in a long post would not make that much difference in my case. A long post itself is challenging for me, but six characters within a long post are not, for me, what makes a significant difference.

Nonetheless, I do think the day when we can assume that the word "men" (and only the word "men") refers to both women and men is over. (That it was ever assumed to be remotely okay, especially given that women are a majority of the species, is mind-boggling.)

I don't think that has to do with any lack of goodwill in the reader. It's that things that were once assumed to be fine or"just the way it is,"are no longer acceptable, whether the wording involves women or people of color or people who are challenged or people who are LGBTQ or people of certain ethnic or religious backgrounds.

That said, I will not raise the issue with you again--and will defend you if I see anyone else raise it with you-- now that you've said that six characters make a significant difference to you because of a physical issue.

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I thoroughly enjoy a subtle insult. I love best the undetected ones. Alas *sigh*
I think if you saw how long it takes for me to communicate by the written word, you'd be far less willing to mock.

In any case.
I long been a whole hearted supporter of a woman's right to education, to vote, to equal pay for equal work, to equality under the law. I support full legal personhood for women the same as for men. I even support a woman's right to abortion, though with reservation and sadness. I urge life but support choice.

I do not support however the PC police who would take on to themselves the determination of what words, used how, are acceptable or not. Nor do I support efforts to insist on gender neutral language or most of the tenets of the radical brand of feminism that insists that all male sexuality is objectifying and abusive.
Most of the PC movement I see as folly and a counter-productive.

Having been raised by a bra burning feminist and having the fortune to have a long relationship with a feminist who was far brighter than I. Having sought out the viewpoints of women, feminist and not so much feminists.
I've concluded that I can fully support the feminism that celebrates both femaleness and maleness and asks only for same rights of personhood that man have and do enjoy.
Other forms I am wary of.

I often wonder what the purpose was of Gloria Steinem's role in infiltrating the feminist movement on behest of the CIA. As it appears to certainly be so. I fear it was to divide the people ever more. To exploit and further drive wedges between the basic fundamental relationship of mankind. To the ends of keeping the people divided.
(I coulda used 'our species' there but chose not to, nothing at all to do with typing).

Your allies won't always agree with you. The tendency of the left to pontificate and speak in absolutes about speech AND THOUGHT infuriates me as much as when done by the right.

Anyway, I guess I'm just one of those racist, misogynists that keep voting for women and POC even though I'm not getting much out of it.
I still don't like the lawyer profession much, but I did hire a woman attorney the one time I needed one.
She billed me for her drivee time.

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

I am in no position to decide what creates a physical issue for you, only what creates one for me. And I wasn't thinking about it beyond that. So, yes, I took you at your word and was indeed ready to defend you if it came up again. However, now that I see your reply to me and look at your other posts again, I get more consciously that, while we both have physical issues around typing, what you type and omit is a matter of priorities for you, just as it is for me and not of impossibility. The proof is that you've now typed two somewhat long posts, just to justify your not typing six extra characters in your first post--and to try to dress me down.

http://caucus99percent.com/comment/229643#comment-229643

http://caucus99percent.com/comment/229586#comment-229586

You said...

And while a chorus of 'And women' whenever one uses 'men' (meaning as the species, not the sex), annoys me at times.

So, not only is including women by using "people," rather than "men" not your priority, but excluding women is something you do regularly and having your exclusion pointed out annoys you. This time, of course, there was no "chorus," just my simple, four-word post saying "Women are lawyers, too." Yet, you were annoyed anyway. Your second post is far more clear about your resentment, which seems to be the actual salient factor in this, more than anything else. ("Bra burning feminist?" I've met many feminists, male and female, of all ages, but not a single woman who ever burned a bra.)

FYI, most lawyers who are billing by the hour (as opposed to a flat fee or a contingency fee) do charge for travel time. My plumber charges for travel time, too. It has nothing to do with being a woman, and more to do with charging by the hour than with being a lawyer. Anyone who charges for travel time should warn customers and clients about that before invoicing them for it, but most don't. While that is, IMO, wrong, it's wide spread. Once burned, twice shy, so next time, you'll know.

Obviously, I don't agree with anything you've said about exclusion or about me, but I will leave it at that. I have a feeling you'll respond to this. However, my participation in this specific colloquy ends with this post.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Eliminating lawyers first has been the go to for every coup in every country since lawyers existed. Lawyers are usually the first ones killed.
Do your own divorce. Represent yourself in your own bankruptcy. Go all pro se in probate to inherit grandpa's millions.
And please, please do not call me at 3 a.m. from jail when you get arrested.
Because, I am a lawyer, the butt of jokes.

Like all professionals, lawyers have to respond to where the money is. It costs too much to create a lawyer for it to be otherwise. Moreover, lawyers act at the nexus of money and power. Lawyers who practice family law hit the grand trifecta of opportunities for disastrous mistakes and/or corruption: money, power, and sex. All this creates opportunities for any British Common Law system to be dragged in the direction of favoring the richest, and all such systems have suffered just that for this exact reason. The U.S. system is currently the worst so corrupted, after several centuries of Britain holding that dubious distinction.

That is not your fault. And I don't deny that honest lawyers exist or that you are most likely among them. But the kernels of truth behind the jokes come from the fact that you are attempting what essentially boils down to an impossible task: determining what the law in fact is when the whole idea of British Common Law renders that exact task impossible. To use your very examples, that's why Grandpa's will has to be so opaque to ordinary literate citizens, why bankruptcies are seldom the simple affairs they should by rights be; and -- to use our common example -- why it is becoming ever harder for citizens to avoid getting arrested, as it is becoming ever harder for ordinary citizens to keep up with just what the law expects of them. This means that they not only need to have lawyers, they all need to be lawyers just to remain un-arrested.

And I will assume you know the well-rehearsed fact about the accused who defends himself having an idiot for a lawyer. Smile

Please do not forget that most citizens can afford no servant who makes more per hour than they do, ever. I myself have spent most of my adult life in that state.

And it could be worse. You could have chosen to be a surgeon. (See Alligator Ed's excellent essay on that subject this morning.)

Anyway, on the cusp, kindly please forgive me for any offense I may have caused you. I certainly meant none such to any honest, hard-working lawyer having to swim up this ghastly current (common law) on behalf of his clients. My oppobrium was intended entirely to those lawyers (don't forget that all judges, and nearly all legislators, are lawyers) who make it so hard for folks like you to do what you do for a living.

And I would dare say the joke-makers' oppobrium comes from the exact same sources and no others.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

PriceRip's picture

          Like all professionals, lawyers have to respond to where the money is. It costs too much to create a lawyer for it to be otherwise.

          This is a myth that should have been put out of its misery back in the 1960s. It just keeps popping up like wack-a-mole. The "costs" are fake just like so much of our economic system because we continue to perpetuate this corrupt system. When given the opportunity to shell it we just don't give a damn. More true now than back in the day young professionals are actively seeking ways to not "respond to where the money is".

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thanatokephaloides's picture

This is a myth that should have been put out of its misery back in the 1960s. It just keeps popping up like wack-a-mole. The "costs" are fake just like so much of our economic system because we continue to perpetuate this corrupt system.

But to the poor bastards who must needs incur them, the costs are very real indeed. Baby lawyers often really do end up owing six or seven figures before they work a single day in profession. Ask your daughter if you doubt me here.

You are, however, correct: the corrupt system is to blame -- both for the dollar costs of creating professionals, and the all-too-frequent need of us 99%ers to hire servants we can never hope to afford. Were the dollar costs of creating new professionals more reasonable as they had once been, we 99%ers would be healthier (because we could afford a doctor, early, when we needed one); we'd be freer and wealthier (because we'd need lawyers a lot less and be able to afford them when we do need them); our infrastructure would be in better shape (because craft engineering would make a comeback rather than the "cut costs at all hazards" garbage that passes for most civil and consumer engineering today); etc.

But that would mean the 0.1% would have to pay the same proportion of their income and wealth in taxes as us ordinary working dweebs. We really can't have anything like that going on.....

Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

PriceRip's picture

          · · · and my daughter thanks you. She just completed law school. She managed to land a position where she has a lot of support. She is really excited about inhancing the mediation and restorative justice aspects of the system.

          She was on the job for seven years and saw a lot of bad stuff. We are hopeful this new aspect of law enforcement proves to be less stressful from a certain point of view.

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janis b's picture

to support the concept of restorative justice, in the name of integrity and resolution. It is a very worthy path to travel on. We need all our daughters to restore justice.

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My son is so much better than both his "raising" and his parents--certainly better than I---that I never try to take credit for anything about him. However, I am sure you were a fine Dad. In any case, congrats about your daughter's accomplishments and goals.

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Aw, man. Faint praise.
At any rate, best of luck to you and anybody who wants to enlarge the protections of the working class, of which I am merely an overeducated and credentialed member.
Especially if you want to do it without lawyers.
You will need it.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Galtisalie's picture

wishing luck and seeking validation of your work pursuits?

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I help my clients every single day or I wouldn't have 200 cases in my active files.
I file grievances against attorneys, I file complaints about judges, I do pro bono work, I campaign for any quality judicial candidate, and mentor 2 really awesome young lawyers.
I treat pro se litigants with all due respect, and encourage settlements through mediation whenever possible.
I have very little respect for a class of corporate lawyers who represent the 1%.
My tip of the hat is to those who represent the 99%.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

they have championed the vulnerable and sought to hold the powerful accountable to their obligations, including the powerful in government.* That is the reason for both all the historical worries about how lawyers get paid, how much and by whom--something no one worries about when prepubescents plunk down two years' allowance for the privilege of watching Justin Bieber melt down onstage. If Beyonce charges three million dollars to sing for two hours at some oligarch's wedding, no one cares. However, if an entire law firm picks up three million on a contingency fee after going out of pocket for five years with no guaranty of ever getting paid or even reimbursed, everyone is resentful and laws like "tort reform" get enacted. That doesn't happen by accident.

On the flip side, the entire society seems to have become more grasping and I don't think that lawyers, as a class, are exempt from that, even if many of them don't deserve to be included in that category. Same for doctors. During the Depression--and for a long time before health insurance was the norm--doctors (who then made house calls) got "paid" by being invited to join the family for a meal after they completed their ministrations. I believe that doctors and lawyers who decided to invest in medical and law school then were, as a class, a different from those who decided to go to med school or law school not very many years later, when the only Cadillacs and air-conditioned homes and offices in the area may have belonged to the doctors and lawyers.

Does that mean that only money motivates all of today's doctors and lawyers? No, of course not. No generalization or stereotype applies to 100% of the members of any class. Many idealists exist in both professions and society would certainly be the poorer without doctors and without lawyers. However, I think it safe to say thatas a class, each of those professions has changed dramatically since the Depression.

On the one hand, we should not over-generalize mindlessly, especially when generalizations are negative, but, on the other hand, we need not be clueless.

*Lawyers for the ACLU, whether or not we agree with its positions in every case or not, did much to safeguard the Bill of Rights. Ordinary people like us can "speak out"all they wish (or are allowed to), but winning a lawsuit does so much more. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamdan_v._Rumsfeld did more than countless "sternly-worded letters" or impassioned speeches from Amnesty International (whose work I admire greatly). Sometimes, even a threat of a lawsuit that could be serious is all it takes. For example: http://caucus99percent.com/content/did-obama-draw-red-line-syrian-sand-d...

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Respect and thanks to the profession on the cusp. Thanks for people like this guy:
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/5727531-181/santa-rosa-housing-advocate-david

David Grabill, a Santa Rosa public-interest attorney who became one of the region’s leading advocates for the poor in battles with local governments over affordable housing, died Saturday, family members said. He was 74.

Grabill was legal counsel to the Santa Rosa-based Housing Advocacy Group, which forced the construction of hundreds of homes for low-income residents and sparked the creation of dozens of shelter beds for the homeless.

Most recently, he pushed for rent stabilization and just-cause eviction rules in a successful campaign in Santa Rosa. Grabill previously championed farmworker rights as a lawyer for California Rural Legal Assistance.

“He was a fierce advocate, a compassionate human being and a brilliant mind,” said Davin Cardenas, co-director of the North Bay Organizing Project.

Cousin explains my bias: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2219743-181/sonoma-county-judge-rene-chouteau

Law is a family tradition for Chouteau. His father and maternal grandfather were lawyers in a San Francisco firm started by his great-grandfather, Edward Young, in the 1880s. His son, Chris Chouteau of Healdsburg, also is a lawyer.

Chouteau hung out at his father's firm when he was a boy, working the office switchboard and listening to stories about trials and colorful, big-city characters.

"That always interested me," he said. "I was fascinated by the trial process."

We picked abalone off the rocks at low tide near Jenner when I was a little kid, I'd pound 'em out right there on the beach, grilled fresh on an open firepit. All of which is mostly illegal now with way too many people it is unsustainable. But I can still remember California as paradise on earth, where I could drink from any running stream with no worries, and restrooms were for everyone, not just "customers only". Good grief.

Thanks

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader

After a lifetime of service, he's been shat upon for years, simply because he tried to do about the PIC (political industrial complex) the same thing he'd done about cars and other things that were dangerous to people.

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you left out the succeeding part of the Declaration of Independence. which I offer here.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government

I think it important to note the Declaration provides not one, but two urgings to action should conditions merit.
In the words I've quoted above, our current condition is aptly described and our duty made clear.

America must reform and become the light of liberty and justice for the world.
Rather than it's despotic, arms and death dealers.

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

PriceRip's picture

          Like the London Fog creeping in on little cat feet, the notion that money is somehow a limited resource or even a real quantifiable thing suffuses various of these discussions.

          Money is not corporeal. The function of money is to influence commerce. The function of government (in this respect) is to manipulate the economic system to be fair and equitable. Please note: equitable does not mean equal.

          We have an unfair, inequitable economic system that grinds some of us into an early grave, not because there is any lack of resources · · · not because there is any lack of funds · · · We have an unfair, inequitable economic system that grinds some of us into an early grave, solely because we (collectively) lack the will to do the right things.

          I won't bother to "point fingers", but we could have a better tomorrow (literally tomorrow) if we really wanted to have a better tomorrow.

          I should clarify for the young readers that may deign to read this: When I type literally I mean the real literally, not the fake literally that keeps popping up all over the internet.

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