Uncle Loudmouth who voted for Trump

This piece was posted Elsewhere on Christmas eve. It is not needed here but some of you may be amused by it. People here can appreciate the irony that might be overlooked Elsewhere.

I shared this Elsewhere for people who are having problems dealing with their relatives as a result of the recent election. As some of you know, there has been a lot of pressure on people to disown friends and relatives who did not vote 'correctly'. I have never seen an election cause this much personal unhappiness.

Shortly after this diary went up there was an appalling diary at TOP called "Why Trump voters are not welcome in my house this holiday". It has gotten almost 600 recs and has been shared more than 1500 times on Facebook. I have a horrible suspicion that it has been sent to quite a few Trump voters. What bothers me the most is the theory that people who voted
for third-party candidates or who did not vote are somehow closet Trump voters. Otherwise intelligent people are fervently arguing that 0 = -1. The level of hostility over 'incorrect' voting is frightening.

I hope this phenomenon is not as widespread outside the TOP, but do not really know. We will need to form coalitions across party lines to fight for issues we care about. The gloating, rage, fear and angst are going to make it much harder to fight for worthwhile causes. Some of the rest of you may have better insight about how widespread the demonization has become. It is also not clear to me just how to combat the nastiness.

Anyway, here is my diary:

Uncle Loudmouth who voted for Trump

Almost every extended family has an Uncle Loudmouth. Some unlucky families have more than one. At any family gathering Uncle Loudmouth aggressively shares his unsolicited opinions on politics, other people's children, scientific 'facts' that are entirely wrong, and his view that younger relatives are wasting their time on that graduate degree. The minute he opens his mouth most eyes in the room glaze over; a few 'librul' eyes begin to glow with the light of the impending battle.

There is approximately zero chance of getting Uncle Loudmouth to respect any views other than his own. He has never been know to be swayed by rational arguments, partly because he is not listening. It is always funny to watch him continue his attack even when someone 'librul' agrees with something he just said. "Yes, we do need to try to bring manufacturing jobs back to this country." Uncle Loudmouth keeps yelling that you are wrong, even though he just said the same thing you did.

"Yes" you say, "the people in ISIS are terrible human beings." Uncle Loudmouth bellows that you don't know anything.

"I agree, insurance companies should not be allowed to set premiums too high." Uncle Loudmouth keeps hollering. He will not notice that a family 'librul' just agreed with him until the snickers around the rest of the table cannot be suppressed.

Uncle Loudmouth has always been this way. Older relatives say he was a bully even when he was a teenager. He is not going to change. Since Uncle Loudmouth does not listen to anything anyone else says, there is no reason to try to convince him with facts. It is a waste of breath. Uncle Loudmouth lives in a Limbaughian fact-free zone of Faux reality. He ruins a lot
of holidays for the rest of the family.

When Uncle Loudmouth starts one of his tirades the best strategy is to turn to Aunt Flower and congratulate her on winning the blue ribbon at the flower show for her prize zinnia. Feel free to comment that gardening is a wonderful way to help the environment by beautifying the neighborhood. Complement Aunt Flower on increasing biodiversity by planting her lovely flower border that attracts songbirds and insects. Once she get started Aunt Flower will carry most of the conversation. It is not necessary to comment on the tons of toxic biocides that Uncle Loudmouth uses to drench his lawn. The rest of the family is truly tired of hearing about Uncle Loudmouth's war on crabgrass. They will share Aunt Flower's pleasure in this conversation.

Ignore Uncle Loudmouth without being obvious about it. He hates that.

Admire the baby pictures your cousin Newpop is sharing. It is true that just about all babies smear their first meals all over their faces, but this is the first time your cousin's first child was photographed coated with strained peas. Sympathize with Newpop about the high cost of day care and the difficulty of finding good caregivers. Agree on the importance of fathers in the lives of their children. Say you think employers should be family-friendly, especially Newpop’s employer.

Ignore whatever Uncle Loudmouth is bellowing about now.

Agree with your cousin Caringmom that the frequent testing in the schools is very stressful for children. Ask how her kid did. Either there is no need to use a test to show that the kid is exceptionally bright, or tests don't mean anything when a kid cannot show their high intelligence because they have testing anxiety. Anyway we cannot test the kid's gift for art or music (or whatever). We do need to get art and music back into the schools.

Ignore Uncle Loudmouth until he insists on calling you a 'libtard' for the fifth time. Then smile sweetly and say, "Yes, I am a liberal." Immediately turn to Grandmother Cook and ask for the recipe for her peach pie.

Uncle Loudmouth is never going to be convinced to change his votes. Other voters in the family will conclude that liberals are a lot nicer than conservative bullies like Uncle Loudmouth. Some of them may be swayed by your courtesy into considering some of your political views. Those who already agree with you will be relieved to avoid the usual holiday indigestion. Aunt Flower may not vote for Democrats, but she can decide not to vote for Republican candidates she does not like. Aunt Flower may not want to argue with Uncle Loudmouth about voting, but he cannot follow her into the voting booth to make her vote his way.

If Aunt Flower is not a gardener, maybe she is a volunteer for Meals on Wheels, or she is a volunteer tutor at the literacy center, or she works as a school-crossing guard. If your cousin does not have a new baby, your Great Aunt has pictures of her puppy. Maybe someone in the family is taking art classes or maybe someone has a woodworking hobby. If discussions of politics are likely to turn hostile, the most persuasive argument for progressive views is to show that progressives are nice people who care about the needs and feelings of others.

May your days be merry and bright.

Happy Holidays!
**********************************
In response to a question asking why I allowed Uncle Loudmouth to attend holiday gatherings I explained:

Uncle Loudmouth, Sr. lived next door to my grandmother and she loved him even though he thoroughly annoyed her. My family was very close and I lived with my grandmother for a while. The family all liked his wife and we wanted to see my cousins, his children. Uncle Loudmouth in this piece is a composite of my uncle and his oldest son. [My late Uncle would have voted for Trump because -- despite the 2nd Amendment -- Hillary would have taken away his guns.]

My cousin was not such a jerk when he was younger, but he has turned into an even more obnoxious version of his father. My cousin, the Trump voter, has no compunction about trying to bully his daughters, nieces and nephews.

I learned the strategy for dealing with my obnoxious uncle from older members in my family. My generation is trying to pass on the technique to my cousin’s nieces and nephews.

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Big Al's picture

arguing with each other, hating on each other, they're all missing the boat. My brother voted for Trump, sister for Clinton. I've told them both, in my nice, diplomatic way, they were both dead wrong. What I've found really hard to do is discuss voting with those who believe voting is our ultimate civic responsibility regardless who they voted for.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

…and courageously re-evaluated with the highest levels of conscious awareness.

What I've found really hard to do is discuss voting with those who believe voting is our ultimate civic responsibility regardless who they voted for.

Once the act of voting is turned into a platitude, then it is merely a robotic action. The polls are flooded with low-functioning adults who cannot thoroughly explain the issues and the future outcome of their vote. Not one in one hundred voters can filter out the deliberate propaganda generated inside the US to misinform them about the issues they are voting on. (The US may be the only country where lying to voters, via the media, about upcoming election issues is legal. Because First Amendment.)

When they vote and get a free lapel sticker, is that a responsible thing to do? Are low-information/low-awareness voters harming or helping their fellow citizens? Their numbers do demonstrate to the world that American voters consent to be harmed by their corrupt leaders. And, their numbers help certify the winner democracy-wise.

Aware voters either deny or tolerate this recklessness because they think the ignorant and misinformed on both sides cancel each other out. At the same time, they would not want any on them on their jury in a courtroom. Is that simply a desperation to believe in democracy at all costs, because beyond that lies the abyss?

In my view, Democracy in the US is a playground for corrupt powers and a carnival game for voters. It's no better or worse than flipping a coin, which is certainly a lot less expensive, materially and emotionally. The only thing that aware voters have to lose is their self respect for participating in such a degrading form of self harm. This is especially the case when both candidates are owned by, or are members of, the permanent Federal government or deep state.

Does it logically follow, then, that someone with my view would encourage those who are intellectually qualified and who can explain their votes' future impact, to vote?

It depends.

[Edit grammar]

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The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
asterisk's picture

information with voters outside the MSM.

Someone at TOP suggested producing a competitive tabloid for supermarket checkout lines. I was on board with this until the discussion degenerated into suggestions about how to make our lies better than their lies. Ross Perot used to use informational graphs that were extremely popular with his followers. Ordinary voters are not as stupid as the two parties think. Many people would like to have truthful sources of information.

An interesting presentation doesn't hurt. A lot of people got information from The Daily Show. I like watching John Oliver. Maybe we can find more ways to communicate with the people who are willing to listen. Almost everyone is thoroughly sick of the Loudmouths from both parties.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

You would need to partner with a publishing insider already at the checkstands, however. That distribution channel is still run by the mafia. But it would probably work well.

Perot's use of charts was brilliant, I thought. For a long time, I pondered why leaders were not using charts and visual language when they communicated. I was even annoyed when Obama didn't use charts at his first State of the Union address. Charts are used less and less in the news.

Then it dawned on me, duh! Charts convey information that runs contrary to what they are pitching to Americans. In fact, they show the opposite, if they are not hoarked by information saboteur specialists.

I, myself am a collector of charts and visual data. There's always so much more information than it purports to show. Yesterday I found one showing 70 years of continuous US propaganda revising history to show that the US won WWII — rather than the Russians, who actually did. It was necessary for a lot of people to die of old age, first:

In 1945, most French people thought that the Soviet Union deserved the most credit for Nazi Germany’s defeat in World War II — even though the Soviets didn’t play much of a role in France’s liberation, relative to the US and Britain. By 1995 and 2004, however, the French had changed their minds, and were crediting the US as the biggest contributor to victory in Europe (survey data from the French Institute of Public Opinion).

Some of the current podcasts are doing a great job. But, audience size and audience quality is an issue. Social media is self-canceling, I believe. Americans seem to be waking from their 50 year coma, which is nice. But the truth is, we're in the Hail Mary zone. The tipping point, according to the scientist who brought us the Gaia Theory, came and went decades ago. We're in for it, he says, although he thinks recycling is nice activity. People will be fully aware by the end, for what it's worth.

I really liked your Loudmouth piece. That issue in families is the one I find most sad about these times. You presented it perfectly. Your comments have been a pleasure to read in recent days. Glad you are here.

Your friend,

Pluto

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The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
asterisk's picture

party politics has turned voting into 'my football team' vs. 'your worthless football team'. I think Occupy scared The Powers That Be and they want us to spend our time screaming insults at people who actually agree with us on most issues. Some of the rabid Dem fans are labeling everyone who did not vote for their candidate as "sexist, racist, antiMuslim, anti . . . ."
As a Libtard of long standing I actually find the Repub line of insults less offensive.

People here at C99 generally discuss issues in a civil way. There must be some way to export that civility. I just am not sure how to do it.

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bygorry

asterisk's picture

Unfortunately the species is numerous, widely distributed and difficult to ignore.

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gulfgal98's picture

Stupidity is what I found in those diaries over at dkos in which people have decided to never speak to another Republican or Trump or Stein or Johnson voter because Hillary lost. Tribalism does nothing to solve the underlying issues which make people vote or even not vote the way they do. Instead, it throws up another wall between people. And each wall between us is just another win for the oligarchy.

In particular, I too exception to BBB's diary in which he claimed he has never known or associated with a Republican. That is pure bullshit. The guy claims to work in the finance industry in NYC. I find it very hard to believe he has never met a Republican. That diary was posted to rally the tribalists and shame those who refuse to take some sort of Democratic party loyalty oath. That is what that site and the Democratic party is all about now. Tribalism.

Regardless, listening to and finding out why people are angry is the only way we can build a movement to benefit us all. By last count, Democrats consist of less than 30% of the electorate. So are we going to discount the other 70% because we do not like how they voted or even did not vote? No wonder the tried and true tribal Dems keep losing. They are the ones who are making themselves irrelevant.

I spent four and a half years with a Peace vigil that met once a week for one hour. During that time, we talked to a very wide variety of people, including many self described conservatives. One of the main things we tried to do was to listen to them and find common ground. It is really amazing that when you do just that, you learn that we have far more in common than that which divides us.

Nearly every person wants to be assured of economic security, the ability to have good healthcare, provide a decent future for their families, and know that they will be cared for in their old age.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

The Neoliberals/Clintonites need to wither and die; they won't change. If they take the Democratic Party down with them (as they seem determined to do) then so be it - nature abhors a vacuum and something else will emerge - but it won't be rehabilitated until then.

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asterisk's picture

friends. I thought about writing something about tolerance for about a week but was about to give up on DK. On Christmas eve I just felt I had to do something about all the real unhappiness the tribalism is causing. The Uncle Loudmouth thing flowed into my keyboard in a couple of hours.

The responses to this diary and my comments in several diaries written by other people were diverse. There are a lot of people who want to be allowed to love their families without being told this is the same thing as accepting the antisocial views afflicting some of their relatives. Continued demands that these people choose between the Dem party and their relatives will decrease the size of the Dem party.

Some people are using a Trump vote as an excuse to cut off contact with obnoxious relatives that have been abusing them for years. Others would have been surrounded by a crowd of gloating Trump voters taunting them. I was only being given one side in the individual cases, but it did sound like absence was likely to make respective hearts grow fonder.

The dk crowd who smugly cut off everyone who did not vote for their preferred candidate are doing their friends, relatives and acquaintances a big favor. It would be nice if the smug ones did not feel so compelled to publicly announce their superiority and their utter wonderfulness. Maybe someday they will realize they are the ones who are the Loudmouths. Or maybe not.

The Peace vigil sounds beautiful. So many people just want to be heard. We will never know how much having someone listen to them sent ripples of kindness through the community.

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gulfgal98's picture

early this summer. We had gotten down to three of us when one of our dwindling number (Bill - age 80) had major physical problems that kept him from coming. He and Don (age 86) were the original members who began the Peace vigil from over 13 years ago. I was the newbie and the youngest member in my late 60's. The others simply aged out. When Don and Bill decided to disband, I had to understand.

I have so many wonderful memories of the four and a half years I spent with them. It was always about having the conversations and listening to people. We had folks who approached us in a state of great anger. But when we talked, it turned out that we had a lot in common. The key is listening first and then having a conversation, not preaching and judging.

That is what the Democratic party and its strongest adherents should be doing. However money talks and tribalism ensues.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Pluto's Republic's picture

By last count, Democrats consist of less than 30% of the electorate.

Lately, I've had a suspicion that something big happened after the primaries concerning Party shifting. Were numbers ever released?

(There were too many strange behaviors during the convention (USA!, USA!, USA!) and in the time leading up to Election Day that cannot really be explained in a normal fashion. There are always invisible influences, but that campaign was moved around by an invisible bulldozer. It became positively supernatural following the election. The nation has never seen anything as crazy as this before.)

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The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
gulfgal98's picture

I have not done a check lately. It may be lower, but 29% is pretty pathetic in itself.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Although I would tell Uncle Loudmouth, when he's admiring those cute baby pictures, that it's a shame that the baby is going to grow up to face Waterworld.

There needs to be a caucus for the 99%....oh wait.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Pluto's Republic's picture

There needs to be a caucus for the 99%....oh wait.

There needs to be an ALLIANCE of the 99%. The caucus has done its job.

OWS set the boulder rolling down the hill in motion, of course. But as far as I can tell, a nationwide voters alliance that uses this faux democracy to defeat the Deep State proxy candidates — and turn US elections upside down unless uncontaminated non-Party candidates are included — is the only way out for the American people.

I strenuously reject the values of both parties (as demonstrated). I bet the American people are with me on that.

Perhaps the message should be:

"Stop playing the game.
You're just making it worse."

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato