The Struggle Is Also Within ME

So about "#NeverHillary".

Of course I should avoid those kind of hyperbolic #hashtag proclamations for the exact reason for this post. Words like "Never" and "Always" are generally a bad idea, as there is always a non-zero (or non-100) percent probability to... well, anything. Sure, sometimes the difference is very, VERY small... but in a world where anything really can happen, it's important to remember.

I've spent the last few weeks struggling with the whole Bernie v. Hillary conundrum, which only grew worse when the DNC e-mail dump came out last week showing that the conspiracy theories about the DNC favoring HRC (well, to be honest it wasn't much of a theory considering how baldly obvious it was) weren't.

While the links between Russia and Trump/Drumpf are are should be... MUST be... of concern to this country in terms of the external corruption of the political process, We really need to see more of a mea culpa on the part of that establishment. Having Debbie "Downer" Wassermann-Schultz fall on her sword is all well and good, but this was a systemic issue.

"But," comes the argument, "Hillary wanted to dump the DNC chair last year!" Except that sounds pretty weak coming now, after the exposure. If Hillary had been a bit clearer about her dissatisfaction vis a vis the head of the DNC, then we'd be a lot kinder about it now. She wasn't, so yes, more needs to be done to heal that mistrust, among so many other incidents that make us mistrust her.

Ultimately all of that is (or should be) over-ruled by the exhortation on the part of Bernie himself that we all be behind Hillary. If the man is half the leader that he was to me, the progressive movement, and this country, I should listen to him.

But my conscience is a damnable thing. It wants to argue that maybe this time the terrible nature of both candidates is what we need to kickstart a third party, which a staggering 71% of independents say they want (as per Gallup, 7/25/2016).

That's my struggle. Remember, as far as I'm concerned Hillary seemed to do everything in her power to alienate the progressive base of the party. She HAD my vote to begin with. Bernie Sanders was this "local" politician (during my last years in NY) that I knew about only because of the "socialist" leanings that were supposedly huge threat.

Part of me want to believe the expediency of politics will pull Hillary to the left. That the crowds, the enthusiasm, and the ENERGY of the next generations are both a source of donations that are practically begging for someone to give their money to will induce her to move away from the Wall Street psychos that seem hell bent on starving the government as much as, albeit much more slowly, than the GOP. That "socialism" isn't a dirty word, but a system that (no matter how the capitalist 1%'ers scream and kick about it) is not only viable, but NECESSARY in the face of mankind's current point of evolution.

Because the problem with ideals is that they scare people. Think about every goal, wether ending slavery, giving women the right to vote, or even just giving the vote to anyone old enough to die fighting our wars; Each and every one of those great leaps in freedom required changes to our constitution, and each was foreshadowed by those who would lose nothing, but whatever shallow perception of "control" they never really had in the first place.

While I am often frustrated at the glacial pace of change, I have to find that perspective that helps me realize that incrementalism is the reality of modern politics -- at least until people work, from the local level upwards, to move things forward more quickly. One way I do that is to remember... because I CAN remember... what things were like in 1969, the earliest point I can recall what people thought of certain things, like politics, sexism, bigotry. That I was *4* when Stonewall happened, and I personally know married couples that are same sex. That transgenderism, while still a painful slog, might be less of a hurdle going forward, but if we can get over gay marriage, what the hell is everyone's issue with the transgendered?

My biggest frustration is the "two steps back" that the last 35 has felt like to me. Like we came really far in the first half of the 20th century, and some serious movement in the 70's made it feel like we were finally waking up... and the radical regressives then spent the last 20 years of the 20th and the first 10 years of the 21st fighting those changes tooth and nail.

While they've not been as successful as feared, that pathological resistance succeeded in slowing progress on so many fronts. To some degree the Clintons were responsible for that. But at what point do I concede that slowing down things less is better than blowing things up?

In the past I've made comments about "hitting bottom". This was not out of some perverse desire to watch the country burn, but out of my direct and very personal experience at the hands of an abusive step-father. That's not an appeal for pity or sympathy, but an explanation why "hitting bottom", while a tragic and terrible process, is not one I fear as much as others.

But then there's the fact when my step-father finally hit bottom my greatest challenge was not killing him as he abused my mother. The greatest risk for the USA hitting bottom is the utter annihilation of all progress of the entire world due to Trump hitting the button, and the nuclear "open season" that would engender. Even if not as apocalyptic, the result could be a third-world USA, permanently punch drunk and brain fried, like some aging boxer who was once a contender for the title, but is now that sad hulk people try to slip the occasional coin toward in ways the still proud wreck could avoid seeing as charity.

If you've made it this far, THIS is what many who felt the Bern are struggling with. The details and circumstances may change, but we're not just being assholes to piss you off, whether you supported Hillary from the beginning or not. And, if people stopped playing "punch the hippy" and "that's a right wing smear!" bullshit, they would realize that the point of this process is to make the candidate stronger, NOT weaker.

Maybe HRC believes the shift to the left, maybe it's just politically expedient... and maybe there is no difference if we get a result that move things forward. Even Obama noted that the best way to get something was to MAKE Washington DC to pay attention. Our job as the masses of democracy is to make our voices heard. The point of a movement is to get everyone saying the same thing at the same time, this amplifying that voice.

For too long the progressive movement has let the right wing dominate that conversation. It's time to push forward.

Will I find the strength to vote for Hillary? True, it's likely a forgone conclusion in California. I'd likely have less of a struggle in Utah, where Hillary actually has a shot of taking the state. And maybe the DNC and HRC haven't done enough (yet) to heal the divisions of that e-mail dump.

But the implications that Russia may be conniving to manipulate the US political process, all with that fascist Trump's black cherry on top? Too scary to ignore.

So, I have to swallow hard, and admit that maybe it isn't quite time for the third party. A lot of the foundation is there, but the collective will hasn't quite hit the level where we can realistically push a third party over the top.

Now, at the local level it's a different story. Stop with the binary Red v Blue thinking, and realize you could go with Green, or a whole new progressive party. At the very least, run as a progressive, vote for a progressive, regardless of party.

Yeah, I want to fix it all now. I mentioned to the tribe recently that I had a better understanding for the evil genius who wants to rule the world out of frustration of the idiots who can't seem to get over the trivial and unimportant. The same idiots who get all huffy and defensive if you point out how shallow they're thinking, whether through willful ignorance or greed (or some combination of both).

But the reality is, giving in is not giving up... it's conceding people aren't ready.

Yet.

Though I wish I didn't feel quite like this:

MeH.

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can take us: "the result could be a third-world USA, permanently punch drunk and brain fried, like some aging boxer who was once a contender for the title, but is now that sad hulk people try to slip the occasional coin toward in ways the still proud wreck could avoid seeing as charity." Shillary will do the same damned thing, and really, the fact that the Rump has made it as far as he has pretty much shows you just what a sad hulk the US has already become.

And I wonder, is this another troll diary to fire up a bunch of hysterical screaming about the Rump, concentration camps, deportations, etc? Because if that's the case, that ship has already sunk here.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Yohannon's picture

Did you just accuse ME of trolling??

This wasn't a troll. And the final message was LITERALLY "MeH". If the result of the Chaos Purge is that the ejected group is even LESS open to hearing bad news than Markos He Who Shall Not Be Named was, then we're all screwed.

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Just another refugee from the Daily Chaos. Wink

kharma's picture

the result of the Chaos Purge is that the ejected group is even LESS open to hearing bad news

and more like we've heard how compared to Trump she is Princess Lilyblossom--some of us are not receptive to that argument. Just because some people don't agree with you doesn't make them 'LESS open to hearing bad news', they heard the news and gave you the forum to say it (you're still here right?), but disagreed. Some things you say rings a bell with some of us (my wife and you might agree) and to others it's just another attempt to put reform off for many more years. Anyway your input is valued (as are everyone's) but don't expect this to be an amen forum.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

detroitmechworks's picture

It's Always "Change Next Election" and "Change Last Election" but never "CHANGE THIS ELECTION".

Their pronouncements of doom always come to pass, because we always vote for one of them, and they make SURE to punish us for our choices. Fuck em.

The time is now, and it will always be now. The choices we make NOW are what our future will be. We cannot win a Pyrrhic victory. Pyrrhus was NEVER stupid enough to throw away resources in the vague hopes that someday in the future there would be a battle he could win.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

kharma's picture

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

If it didn't have the fear mongering in it.

The greatest risk for the USA hitting bottom is the utter annihilation of all progress of the entire world due to Trump hitting the button, and the nuclear "open season" that would engender. Even if not as apocalyptic, the result could be a third-world USA

Hillary is the one that comes with a bigger threat of "nuclear open season," not Trump. This is proven by her actions. This is proven by her political stances. This is proven by the war hawks of the Republican party flocking to her, not to Trump. This is proven by her attitude towards Russia. She supports setting up no fly zones that would result in attacking Russian aircraft in the middle east. How would that not start us down a path towards war with a nuclear armed nation?

Trump's foreign policies are being called isolationism. How do we end up in a "nuclear open season" through isolationism?

And what does any of that matter when faced with the corporate coup of our government that Hillary supports, the TPP? If the TPP is enacted, our government and its laws are null and void.

What's ironic is the end of this diary.

The same idiots who get all huffy and defensive if you point out how shallow they're thinking, whether through willful ignorance or greed (or some combination of both).

This diary is full of shallow thinking. It's full of fear mongering. It's full of phrases designed to shame people into a hive mind way of thinking.

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Hillary is the one that comes with a bigger threat of "nuclear open season," not Trump. This is proven by her actions. This is proven by her political stances. This is proven by the war hawks of the Republican party flocking to her, not to Trump. This is proven by her attitude towards Russia. She supports setting up no fly zones that would result in attacking Russian aircraft in the middle east. How would that not start us down a path towards war with a nuclear armed nation?

The idea that Donald Trump, political scum that he is, would pose the greater threat of nuclear annihilation than Hillary is truly laughable. Precisely the opposite it true. Her reckless eagerness to put American troops/carriers in harm's way is truly terrifying to me.

This is indeed THE issue that can make me do the unthinkable this fall if the contest is as close as it is today: vote for a Republican. I never thought I'd see the day when the Republican was clearly the lesser of the two evils I have to choose from, but that day has finally arrived.

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James Kroeger

RejectingThe3rdWay's picture

But the implications that Russia may be conniving to manipulate the US political process, all with that fascist Trump's black cherry on top? Too scary to ignore.

Sorry, but the information needed to come out on the corruption and rigging of our system.

The fact it had to come from Russia?
That's an indictment on our media, DNC officials who have no conscience, and the intimidation by the Clinton Machine.

#JillNotHill
#JillStein2016
#NeverTrumpOrHillary

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When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

certainly not the MSM.
Also, Lee Camp - Redacted Tonight. Much more valuable than ABC, NBC, CNN, CBS, any of them.

Who the fuck cares the source - WE LEARNED ABOUT THE DNC EMAILS - that's what's important.

Yes, I hope we get more - learn what Clintons were hiding on their basement server - jeez.

It's like complaining about Edward Snowden - damn, I'd give him the Nobel Prize. ( much faster than I would have given it to Obama, for doing nothing, except using more damn drones!)

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TheOtherMaven's picture

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

to make important and or complicated decisions, The time is now there wont be a better time. My personal experience is I'm always kicking myself in the ass for not making decisions sooner but not this time.

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elmo's picture

and more rational moment for liberals to vote third party.

Point 1: there is minimal risk. Hillary is asking for and is very likely to get the votes she needs from well off Republicans, well off Democrats, and the Democratic Party's minority base who have been effectively scared into her arms by Trump. It will be far closer than it should be, but she'll win. Make no mistake about that.

Point 2: The Democratic Party is corrupt, but they're not completely stupid. They know that a voter coalition built upon Republican votes is a 'one time only" proposition, only good for the extraordinary circumstance in which the Republicans nominate the extraordinary whackdoodle Donald Trump. Plug in any other more conventional Republican and Hillary wouldn't draw those votes. So if they want to win another election, they have to come after us...but only if we prove to them that we are willing to pick up our marbles and go home. Vote for the execrable Hillary, the Democratic Party will keep on its current path. They won't know that you held your nose, vomited over your ballot, and only did it to stop Trump.

We need to see the third party vote totals go up, way up this cycle. That is the only thing that will get their attention and further this revolution to take back our democracy from the exclusive control of big money interests.

It's only a first step, of course. We'll need to be a royal pain in Hillary's ass from day one. Day in and day out. Relentless, hounding and harassing her to do what she claimed (ha! ha!) she was going to do. We need to make her life a living holy hell.

That part I am actually looking forward to. She deserves it.

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Even the smallest person can change the course of the future

sojourns's picture

Fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is a major cause that Sanders was not nominated. That and DNC skulduggery. For every fucker that said "I'm voting for Clinton because I'm afraid Sanders can't win", SANDERS WOULD HAVE WON AND BEAT TRUMP HANDILY. oops. Sorry. Anyway.

Fear Russian hacking us? RUSSIA AND CHINA AND ETC. ETC. ARE HACKING SOME FUNCTION EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY OF THE UNITED STATES EVERY FUCKING DAY OF THE YEAR. oops. Sorry again. The hack job happened because DWS is an inept jackass that was too arrogant to think they could get hacked. A 12 year old could have hacked that site. Nothing but a smokescreen to divert attention.

Thanks for venting your concerns but it is fear expressed in supreme rationalizations that is a big part of the problem.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Hillary will, and they will let her do pretty much what she wants.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Yohannon's picture

Folks, I spent several days writing this piece. It was a reflection of my struggle with (wait for it) REALITY.

It is no longer GOP fear mongering if there is a real risk of Trump becoming president. Hell, the very polls we tried to use to convince people of Bernie's suitability show that very risk.

The sadness is that apparently I'm not excited enough for Hillary to be taken seriously on DailyKos, and now I'm not ANTI-Hillary enough for C99%. It was that requirement for idealogical purity that drove me from the DNC and the neo-liberal dems in the first place. I'm hoping this isn't an indication that, in the end, it wasn't Markos' strong handed overkill that was the problem, but that he wasn't being a dictator in your favor.

3 months is NOT enough time for a serious third party run to the white house. At this point people who are voting libertarian or green (and, heaven help us, REPUBLICAN) not out of the knowledge that they are the best candidate, but are simply NOT HILLARY, then what's the freaking point?

Even Bernie knew that this wasn't a top down process, but bottom up. As I noted in the piece, if you devoted as much energy to a lost cause toward a local contest where a third party could be viable, then in short order you would see the bottom-up rise of more parties. That's how it works. It's not sexy, interesting, or glamorous, and (as I also lamented) it's SLOW. But it works.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue this point. I hope people understand if I just leave the political arena until November, because if people are going to be the "#berniebrats" that they accuse us of being... well, a pox on all your houses.

There WILL be that third party, and a fourth, and maybe even a fifth... but none of y'all will be in that parade if you alienate anyone who doesn't adhere to a far more fearful world view than even the Grand Ol Psycho's crammed down our throats last week.

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Just another refugee from the Daily Chaos. Wink

detroitmechworks's picture

Bernie was always my plan B.

This election was the Democrats last chance to gain back the trust they had burned over decades. They fucked it up.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

WindDancer13's picture

of what birthed this site. It came about as a place to discuss issues in an open forum.

After the DK purge, people went in search of a place to land and a number of new sites popped up. C99 had already been in existence and appealed to a lot of Sanders supporters because we tend to be issue oriented. The site was never meant as a place to promote candidates, but because we are in the middle of an election season and because there are so many refuges, it has adapted for the time being to deal with that.

However, the main focus is on issues. HRC has been on the wrong side, offered tepid support or has lied about her position on issues that those of us here care about. So, no, you are not going to find a lot of sympathy for her here. Many will go with Jill Stein or other third parties that reflect their understanding of the issues. Some will vote for Trump to keep HRC and her husband from doing more harm. Some may not vote at all. Some will vote for HRC.

If those who want to show how HRC would be better than another choice based on the issues, then they will probably get a fair hearing here. I say "probably" because it depends on whether or not they are honest regarding the facts or waste our time with fear mongering. In your essay, this is what may have turned a lot of people off:

But the implications that Russia may be conniving to manipulate the US political process, all with that fascist Trump's black cherry on top? Too scary to ignore.

That along with the suggestion that Trump is the nuclear threat rather than HRC just flies in the face of reason. My first thought was that you are watching way to much corporate media.

As for third parties, yes, it is too late for this election to form a new one. It is, however, still possible to help support those that exist now. If I remember correctly, California has a healthy Socialist Party--not sure of the name of it there though (cf. Kshama Sawant for an example of a really good socialist candidate and then see who there is in CA).

No one is ever 100% right, not even Bernie Sanders.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

My priority is that Hillary loses. How or to whom, I could care less. If the polls are close in my state, I plan to vote for Trump. If they are not, I plan to vote for Jill Stein. Just like Norquist and the Tea Partiers, I intend to make traitors in the so-called Democratic Party pay. Hillary cannot keep what she stole.

Please, feel free to vote for Hillary. You can even tell us all about it. Just don't expect us to agree with you or to support your decision.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

kharma's picture

Here you can argue your point--there you are silenced. It isn't nearly the same. I'm glad you posted this, I've been expecting it and I gave the essay a thumbs up for discussion, but I disagree on a few points and won't be voting for Mrs Clinton. She had the chance for me to possibly hold my nose but she lost it when among other things
she said Unity is not important and those Sanders people will come over after I have trashed them as racist misogynistic freeloaders. I say, fuck that.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

if you leave the political arena until November.
I am sorry your step dad did to you what the Democratic Party has done to me.
Your reaction is fear, mine is a fight mode. I am the daughter of a warrior. A volunteer to land on the beach at D-Day.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

TheOtherMaven's picture

Now is not the time to talk up "party unity", not when we've all just been kicked in the head the stomach the groin and elsewhere, and tossed into the gutter.

File that jazz until after Labor Day. Give T-Rump more time to goatse (don't look that up, it's obscene) and turn people off. Then try again and see if you get a better response.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Essayist doesn't seem to allow for those of us who think Clintons will do much more damage to us, and the rest of the world, than Trump.

Also, Libertarian party is an option, would like to see them get more than 15% in polls, so both Gary Johnson and Bill Weld can participate in debates.

Don't care about the Democratic party - became an Independent YEARS ago when Al From, the Clintons, the DLC, Third Way took over the Democratic party. Remember those days when they listened to Dick Morris, now they listen to David Brock and still, of course, Sidney Blumenthal. Yuck.

H/T to FDR: " We have nothing to fear, but fear itself."

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shaharazade's picture

more Chicken Little. Ideological purity my ass. I'm not ideologically pure I'm a mish mash of ideologies as we all are. The Russians are coming and they are in league with Trump no wait they are .... oh my god. You make no sense whatsoever. The Mad Bomber and the toughly discredited Democratic party is not REALITY. It's a rigged duopoly that you apparently believe in. Get a grip. SoS Clinton and Pres. Obomber are way more dangerous to the world then the overtly fascist pig The Hairball.

Stop being so afraid and read something other then the political spin and propoganda that is pumped out by the complicit duopoly and the owner's of the place. Bernie Brat's? Hey i and many here are not even Sanders supporters. You seem to be confused about the nature of this site. It's not partisan or an advocate of any candidate. Fear is toxic. It fries your brain. I hope you recover. Not Hillary is a good starting point for any political revolution. Sometimes you just gotta say no way regardless of your ideology and so called purity.

You seem to have hit every buzz word that freaks me out. Purist, ideological, not the time and on and on. If your a paid troll you suck so I don't think you are. Your just another frightened soul who has fallen for fear. I say your fear is misplaced. The reality you fear is exactly what you will get once you give your consent to rule to any of these psycho's.

As for dropping the bomb we do not call HRC the Mad Bomber for nothing. She just loved the original drop the bomb dude scary guy Goldwater. Here is a scary thing that came out of her lying mouth, We came, we saw, we killed she cackled. your barking up the wrong tree here at cc99% if you think any of us are going to fall for scare tactics. Me I've had enough.

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i didn't want Clinton in 2016. Bernie was not my first choice for primary candidate. i was going to throw my support behind O'Malley before Sanders got in the race, so this isn't about me being a resistant Bernie supporter. eventually, i found that i liked Bernie's message better. O'Malley might have been just another centrist in a different suit but he wasn't Clinton and that would have been good enough for me if he had won the primary. i was hoping to unholy hell that we weren't going to have another Bush v. Clinton. that would have been majorly embarrassing for the U.S. thankfully, Bush was banished despite all his money because his last name was tainted so i guess we can take some pride in only half embarrassing ourselves with the Clinton nomination. the rest of the world probably wonders why we can't seem to stop ourselves from recycling Bushes and Clintons for the last 36 years. being 56 years of age that is all of my adult years.

i can't help that Clinton just happens to be the last Democrat standing. plenty of Democratic women have paid their dues to the Democratic party that didn't have a husband that was a former president. why should everyone have been swept aside for Clinton? that probably galls me more than anything. i don't care what the Democratic party promised her when she lost to Obama in 2008. no one should get a lock on the nomination just because it's their turn. how else to explain that no establishment Democrat stepped in to challenge Clinton? the DNC and Democratic party miscalculated on just one thing. they never saw Sanders coming. it took an outsider to directly challenge Clinton on her turf.

it should have been a fair primary process and it wasn't just Sanders that got the work over. O'Malley had expressed frustration early in the process but his political message didn't take hold like Bernie's and he was out early. likewise, for Webb and that other guy but i think they just plain creeped everyone out. now, as i've stated, my strategy was ABC (anybody but Clinton) for 2016. the smallest part of me might have considered voting for her in the general election if it was a fair and even Democratic primary. i can't say that it was. even before the DNC email revelations it was more than obvious the scales were being tipped in Clinton's favor. when you start with all the superdelegates in your pocket to begin with and then have virtually no Democratic challengers then something stinks from the get go. the stink only got worse from there.

so no, not Clinton, not now but i never say never, so check back with me on November 8. anything can happen between now and then. Trump is not my concern right now.

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enhydra lutris's picture

But the implications that Russia may be conniving to manipulate the US political process, all with that fascist Trump's black cherry on top? Too scary to ignore.

If it is true, which I doubt, there is nothing scary about it. Some undeniable truths were confirmed, so what? That's not scary. If there was a bad motive behind it, that's not scary either.

Now, this -

But the reality is, giving in is not giving up... it's conceding people aren't ready.

is simply the same old self fulfilling prophecy. You can never if you decide without tryint that you can never win. You never make a goal that you fail to attempt.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --