The Status Quo approach to Climate Change -- has NOT been Fast Enough

Sometimes you don't know what you got -- til it's gone. ... Sometimes, you do ...

Even President Obama has said as much himself — that we’re not moving fast enough on Climate Change.

...

Obama in Alaska warns ‘we’re not moving fast enough’ on climate change

by Tony Dokoupil, MSNBC.com — 09/01/15; Updated 09/01/15

President Barack Obama late Monday issued a blunt, borderline apocalyptic call for global action on climate change, rallying world leaders to reach an agreement this year or “condemn our children to a world they will no longer have the capacity to repair.”

“Climate change is no longer some far-off problem; it is happening here, it is happening now,” the President said in Anchorage, Alaska, addressing an international conference on the Arctic. “I have come here today, as the leader of the world’s largest economy and its second-largest emitter, to say that the United States recognizes our role in creating the problem, and we embrace our responsibility to help solve it.”

[...]

If we do nothing to keep glaciers from melting, and forests from burning we will condemn our children to a planet beyond their repair,” the president said, summing images of “entire industries of people who can’t practice livelihoods, desperate refugees, political disruptions that could trigger conflicts around the world.”

“Any leader willing to take a gamble on a future like that,” he continued, “any so-called leader who doesn’t take this issue seriously or treats it like a joke is not fit to lead. On this issue, of all issues, there’s such a thing as being too late.”

[...]

NOW — that president Obama is putting the finishing touches on his Executive Legacy as president, it seems he may have a bit of buyer’s-remorse — regarding his decision to ‘wait for Republicans to get on board with Climate Change legislation’

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Obama: I should have acted sooner on climate change

by Jordan Fabian, theHill.com — 09/24/15

President Obama says he should have "moved faster to a nonlegislative strategy" to address climate change after Congress killed cap-and-trade legislation in 2009.

[...]

The collapse of the cap-and-trade bill, which would have taxed companies for carbon pollution as an incentive to cut emissions, was one of the biggest legislative failures of Obama’s presidency.

The 2009 cap-and-trade bill passed the House but was never brought to the floor in the Senate, were it ran into opposition from Republicans and some centrist Democrats, who argued it would hurt energy producers.

Environmental groups criticized Obama during his first term for not acting quickly enough on climate change. But Obama defended his push to court Republicans to back the cap-and-trade bill, saying their votes were necessary to pass the legislation.

[...]

Over six years waiting for Republicans to support cap-and-trade? It should have been clear that after the first year or two — THAT was never going to happen.

Yet, status quo priorities always seem to trump, urgent scientific and environmental and economic goals. If were lucky, one day when those postponed priorities fail to pan out, the priority-pickers ‘wake up’ — and come to sad realization, that they may not actually be leaving their children ‘that Better World’ they had planned — despite the most hopeful of good intentions.

Once again president Obama, seems to be trying to make up for lost time, with respect to that last-on-the-list priority, sometimes colloquially referred as “doing something about Climate Change”.

[President Obama speaking, at the GLACIER Conference -- Anchorage, AK: ]

[...]

This year [2015], in Paris, has to be the year that the world finally reaches an agreement to protect the one planet that we’ve got while we still can.

So let me sum up. We know that human activity is changing the climate. That is beyond dispute. Everything else is politics if people are denying the facts of climate change. We can have a legitimate debate about how we are going to address this problem; we cannot deny the science. We also know the devastating consequences if the current trend lines continue. That is not deniable. And we are going to have to do some adaptation, and we are going to have to help communities be resilient, because of these trend lines we are not going to be able to stop on a dime. We’re not going to be able to stop tomorrow.

But if those trend lines continue the way they are, there’s not going to be a nation on this Earth that’s not impacted negatively. People will suffer. Economies will suffer. Entire nations will find themselves under severe, severe problems. More drought; more floods; rising sea levels; greater migration; more refugees; more scarcity; more conflict.

That’s one path we can take. The other path is to embrace the human ingenuity that can do something about it. This is within our power. This is a solvable problem if we start now.

[...]

Now if only we had that kind of resolve, “to solve Climate Change”, at the beginning of the Obama Administration — instead of at the end of it — then maybe the Obama Legacy could have actually shaken off that “Status quo” moniker.

Maybe our “one planet” would actually be on the path to becoming that ‘Better Place’ for those young folks who will follow us — instead of only the weak initiation, of such a place.

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Pricknick's picture

The greatest threat to the human race and all other forms of life on this planet, is mankind and global climate change.
I've talked to people, who I've known for years, yet never realized how uninformed they are of what's happening. It's not that climate change doesn't happen. It's that it's happening at an extremely accelerated and unknown rate.
Thanks for the post.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

jamess's picture

Combating Climate Change is among my Top Priorities.

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Cassiodorus's picture

Our government's approach to "doing something" about climate change is caught up in a capitalist fantasy of commodities and money -- it makes a fetish of carbon dioxide and looks for ways to turn "doing something" into profit for someone. Even the "carbon tax" solution is caught up in this fantasy thinking.

Obama is the last person we should be looking toward if we want real, physical climate change mitigation. Look, if they'd approached climate change like they'd approached any other pollution event, there would be an eventual cease-and-desist from the polluting source -- the fossil fuel interests -- after which they could no longer do business. But that hasn't happened, has it? Obama couldn't even get the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico under control in a timely fashion.

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

jamess's picture

as an example of how things should NOT be done.

Status quo toting, incremental compromising, 'all of the above' equivocation,

is no way to deal with a planetary problem of this scope.

I fear however, that this molasses approach will not change much, if HRC is elected.

She wants to carry-on with Obama's Legacy after all.

A Legacy of half-measures, and no-measures,

but padded well with urgent-sounding platonic rhetoric.

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tapu dali's picture

with doing anything about climate change that would inconvenience the 1%.

All hat, no cattle.
Too little, too late.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

jamess's picture

Obama's procrastination on the subject,
and his ridiculous "all of the above" strategy,
are unforgivable.

However the urgency of his lame duck conversion,
should be leveraged to demand action,
from anyone who claims to be "sticking to the Obama Legacy."

you know, the incrementalists, who think he can do no wrong.

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You can enter "width=550" on your image tag to control the width of the image in pixels.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

jamess's picture

I made the edit.

Is that a "standard" here for image width?

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I'm new here, so I have no idea if there is a standard. But 550 made it fit!

BTW that's a spectacular pair of images. Thanks.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

janis b's picture

In a land where image rules, it should make a deep impression, but tragically this image is not one that is suggestive enough, to most. It's so sad.

Thank you for pressing for significant change.

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jamess's picture

It is really dumb-founding,

how many take this serious issue, so lightly.

The IPCC Reports have been warning us for years,

about crop loss, species loss, droughts, fires, acidfication,

extreme weather.

Yet the majorities can't be bothered,

assuming that that will be somebody else's problems.

(somebodies like their kids and grandkids.)

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janis b's picture

what it will take to awaken the understanding of what is so obvious. I don’t know, but my guess is that until one is severely affected by the loss, they will disregard or ignore it. It’s also maybe too big and incomprehensible to consider for so many, who are disadvantaged in so many other ways. Hopefully, those advantaged enough can fill in the gap and help to make a difference.

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Christine.MI's picture

I think if people witness any of the calving events that have been taking place, it would begin to wake people the f*** up. Many are on youtube. One was posted on TOP a couple of months ago and it gave me the bad chills! I was fascinated all the same, but it really brought me down; if you are paying attention, you know in your heart and mind what's happening, and has been happening. If I knew how to link it, I would. I'll check now...

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Christine.MI's picture

FreakFlagFly's picture

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Christine.MI's picture

That's the same one I posted. How do you do that? Thanks in advance.

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Lookout's picture

It amazes me that we can in any way doubt climate change when we look at the fate of glaciers and the ice caps.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

jamess's picture

is built of such measurable Facts,

until it impeded on someone's measurable Profits.

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gulfgal98's picture

This one sentence summarizes the inertia we see with this cataclysmic issue.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Miep's picture

This year? Next year?

I think next year is a good bet. These El Niños take awhile to play out, and this is a big one.

One of the most striking things that almost nobody knows about is that ice melting isn't a straight line energy effect. The change of state from solid to liquid sucks up a huge amount of energy.

"Taking these two principles together, one gram of 0° C ice will become one gram of liquid water by absorbing 80 calories of heat without raising its temperature, but that same amount of heat, if applied to 0° C liquid water, will raise its temperature roughly 80° C or to 176° F."

http://www.sddt.com/Commentary/article.cfm?Commentary_ID=176&SourceCode=...

I've seen this brought up on robertscribbler's climate blog. This was just the first link I found with a quick search.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

telebob's picture

It's all down to camera angles and changes in the light.

/s

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If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind. -R. Hunter/J. Garcia

jamess's picture

and in the Skies,

and ruining the view of that

endless Horizon.

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Miep's picture

About technological fixes and ways to ensure we can all go on using just as much energy as we're used to, and no worries about everybody who isn't used to it and would like to join the club.

The foci should be working on ways to use less energy and letting plants do what they do better than any technology.

What a stupid culture this is.

Thank you for noticing that this is a huge problem.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

jamess's picture

the foot-draggers will wake up (supposedly like Obama has).

that day can not come soon enough.

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Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

Alligator Ed's picture

True he helped maneuver the voluntary standards of the Paris accords. True he belatedly nixed the Keystone XL pipeline.
But:
He allowed the coal industry carte balance on coal exports--thankfully Washington State is opposing that gambit.
He allowed offshore drilling to resume in the Gulf of Mexico.
He tacitly encouraged a new thrust for offshore drilling at California--also now receiving considerable push back.
BHO is not an energy reformist--he is a corporatist, silently in league with fossil fuel industries--despite his self-serving prose on the matter. The longer he is in office, the more tarnished his legacy becomes (don't get me started on Merrick Garland else I be rightfully accused of thread-jacking).

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thrownstone's picture

If he can't use a drone, a task force, or La Migra...it don't get done.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

MarilynW's picture

When his press secty of the moment finally did respond, it was
"we don't want to get our oil from dangerous places in the world."
That administration had no idea what a disaster it was and still is.

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To thine own self be true.

thrownstone's picture

maybe that's why BP had to cap that well?

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

Shahryar's picture

the government (parroting the BP numbers) said the leak was 1,000 to 5,000 barrles a day. Any sane person would question that number. Turned out to be 60,000+ per day.

It was one of those times when I realized Obama was quite similar to Bush.

edited to change the title. I'd said "the first time" but it was 2010 and I already knew he was a double crossing bamboozler.

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Miep's picture

In 2008, my mom told me she received a fundraising request in the mail, and wrote "FISA" across it and mailed it back.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

Almost all of the world's agriculture is open. It's totally dependent on climate for a successful growing season. Worldwide we have something like one year's agricultural output in storage. By mid century we will have about 10 billion people, more or less, on the planet to feed. Actual climate change tends to be worse than the IPCC worst case.

Put all of this together and what do you get? My scenario is that sometime in the second half of this century we have two years in a row in which we have major worldwide crop failures due to climate change. Perhaps it might be too hot, might be too cold at the wrong time, might not be enough rain, might be too much rain, might be too low a Ph, acid rain. At the end of the second year harvest it will be obvious that there will be a massive famine resulting in die-back in the billions of people. The wealthier nations will be able to buy what little food remained, but most of the other nations will have to fight for scraps. The world will be engulfed by political and military chaos.

It would be amusing if it were not so important to survival to note that Obama has started to talk about climate change as he originally talked about "change that you can believe in" when he was running for the office the first time. The sad part about an Obama presidency is that he lacks the courage to actually form the policies to enable real change. We really must elect Bernie. He gets it and there is no doubt that he will translate his issues into policy once in the White House. The US could lead the world on forming an active policy, therefore we are acting as surrogates for the entire planet. Fortunately this is not our only hope. The other major players in the world could also lead, but at this point we have a major opportunity to set the agenda.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

thrownstone's picture

climate change is the "change you can believe in". That's a step up from the Repubs... The most recent government estimate that I have seen guesses that a city (of any size) has less than 5 days of food for its residents at any given time.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

Miep's picture

They are all going to be living in places that climate disruption has not yet rendered uninhabitable. I'm not sure how that works.

I do think the great moral dilemma of the first half of this century is going to be what to do about climate refugees. It's already starting. They say it's about war, they blame culture, blame religion. But when drought collapses agriculture, it's about climate.

When it gets too hot and too humid both at the same time, mammals die unless they are underground or have air conditioning. The limit is 35° C with 100% humidity. This is now being approached at times, in some parts of Asia.

Climate disruption resultant from warming increases evaporation while it increases temperatures. This means more moisture in the air overall, which affects storm intensity and also just survivability of hot weather.

We are creating a climate that is like one many millions of years ago in some respects. Except back then nobody was burning ever-more fossil fuels to keep ramping the whole thing up.

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Bluesee's picture

The ramifications of adopting sane long-term planet health policy are pretty awe-inspiring.

The automobile as we know it should cease to be, replaced with energy-efficient mass transportation. Population would be managed, no? As in, persuading people to have less babies.

I mean, I don't know what meaningful measures could be taken by a responsible government that aims to curb the illnesses of our modern American life in the face of man-made catastrophe. I'm spitballin here, help me out.

My real thoughts are very radical, actually. Stop the Capitalist system and replace it with a sustainment system. Sit at home and enjoy your life, all groceries are local. But there is no profit to be made for medical services, or banking services, or law enforcement and prison services, beyond ordinary recompense for a good job well done. Also education. We would then be a collective again, and reunited as a people, under the American flag. But today there are too many predators about. They thrive in the Capitalist system.

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Bernie is a win-win.

Miep's picture

How about making it impossible for women and girls to be impregnated or carry pregnancies to term against their will? That would be a good start.

Otherwise, do everything possible to stop killing off grasslands, forests, all natural communities who capture carbon. Stop assuming humans need to consume so much energy. Change what we think "need" means. Get rid of any economic system that is dependent upon profit, i.e. taking money made by the work of others. Localize as much as possible.

We're already in boatloads of trouble even if we turned it all around tomorrow. So much is already locked in.

I am not optimistic about this. The Cold War was nothing compared to what we've done to this world.

But it's the only game in town.

Keep windows open. Work to restore natural communities. Exercise compassion, we're gonna need it.

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Miep's picture

These people are doing something. In Texas, no less Smile Restoring monarch butterfly habitat.

It's small scale but focused, and is the sort of project that has the potential to have a lot of positive spinoffs.

http://npsot.org/wp/story/2016/8725/

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Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

Cassiodorus's picture

in the process of transferring them to my WordPress account. One thing I've noticed is the prevalence of "capitalism causes climate change" diaries which were generally ignored by the Kosers (except by a small group of devoted readers).

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

pfiore8's picture

it isn't externally systematic. it is internally so: it is our values. there is nothing wrong in making a fair profit but we don't want to pay for the mess of the processes used in manufacturing or resource depletion et al.

the flaw isn't really in "capitalism" per se. the fault, dear Cass is in us. the rat-on-cocaine part of brains.

i've always thought we needed to work on a new arrangement, a new orchestration in our words, our writings to reach the part of the brain that responds to survival in both a tribal and global sense. But we need more than to survive and that is resident in our brains (that gut heart connection) that will alert us to save the external self, the trees and the bees and ...

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Cassiodorus's picture

Human beings have been on the planet for approx. 200,000 years. "Human nature" is not responsible, then, for problems which pop up exclusively in the last 500 of those years.

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

pfiore8's picture

i don't analyze it that way. just look at nukes for example. we knew better and yet we couldn't help ourselves, just to do it. forget consequences.

it is how we manage the systems we create. and we do it badly. it is our nature. or maybe since cro magnon? the barbarian horde ...

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Cassiodorus's picture

-- the four-hundred-year event which kicked off capitalism-- wasn't "human nature," in the same sense in which it wasn't the "nature" of the Europeans to conquer, nor was it the "nature" of the non-Europeans to be conquered.

Rather, capitalism was part of the historic series of events which married science, a byproduct of the marriage of Arabic/ Greek philosophy and Chinese/ Korean technology, to myth, specifically the myths of empire that went from Persia to Greece to Rome to global western Christianity to the "core" of the modern capitalist world. Understanding these events does not mean understanding "human nature," which is itself another conceptual marriage of science and myth. Rather we need to understand the legacy of the 16th and 17th centuries, the raw material of Silvia Federici and Jason W. Moore and Isabelle Stengers and Kees van der Pijl and others, when capitalism was created.

In capitalist life, the life of boring everyday production such as what you see in factories, this marriage of science and myth becomes the marriage of the forces of production and the relations of production. Thus the authority which once attached itself to the god-kings of the various agricultural empires (the culturally-anointed protectors of the stored grain harvests -- think, for instance, of the guy whose face was immortalized on the stone statues of Easter Island) now attaches itself to a managerial/ political class which manipulates technology for the greater glory of an owning class.

It isn't "we," then, who mismanage the systems "we" create, but rather those at the top of the hierarchies, the pyramids of power, who managed to get where they are through narcissistic identification with the systems which place them at the top. This is what is behind the fight around Hillary Clinton. As a woman, she would be an exceptional President; as a narcissist, she would be all too typical, and not in a good way.

It could have happened differently; the revolutions which transformed society could have had different results, for instance. If that had happened, we wouldn't be stuck in the late-capitalist climate change dilemma we find ourselves in now.

As for "human nature," I addressed it in one of those other diaries which I wrote over at Big Orange:

http://www.caucus99percent.com/content/classic-diaries-lets-see-some-opt...

The reason we cannot pin down "human nature" in a scientific-mythological way (specifically, the scientific-mythological ways mentioned in texts on evolutionary psychology or sociobiology) is that humans are too versatile. We need to free that versatility from its scientific-mythological cage! Therein lies the solution to climate change, as well as to each of our other problems.

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

pfiore8's picture

from our nature? the decisions made by the people at the top are driven by what i consider outdated evolutionary imperatives and, to my mind, those imperatives are part of what constitute our nature.

it isn't just those at the top who misuse, but those who don't pay attention or simply don't acknowledge the costs of the system in which they participate. it was our own inertness, our own lack of will to stay involved in the system. . . we left the warriors unattended, believing that they couldn't possible, as greedy as they were, bring us to the brink of destruction.

ignorance isn't an excuse. not looking isn't an excuse. leaving our lives up to the few to decide isn't an excuse. it is, however, part of our nature. and makes us as responsible for this mess. imo.

It is just as much on us ordinary people in the west who are inert, silent. look at Nazi Germany or at what the US is doing now in the Middle East and how most people simply don't want to process it (also our nature).

I do believe in evolution and, at this point, we have enough consciousness to make a decision to evolve our values away from the worship of stuff and back to valuing nature.

anyway, if you want to understand our nature, one needs to understand our chemistry as well. thus, rats-on-cocaine is, in my view, a very good analogy.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Cassiodorus's picture

I decide to survive in the system as it is, absent some greatly hoped-for revolution to change things. What drives me to survive in the way I do(absent a revolution) is not "outdated evolutionary imperatives" but rather the forces/ relations of production in my society of my time and my place, which condition what I do and thus which define its meaning. No "outdated evolutionary imperative" makes me an adjunct professor, as survival isn't (and never will be) "outdated," and as my ongoing interaction with the system as it is will define the forms of my tries at survival.

To continue further with the example of me: what makes me most significantly the way I am, here and now, is that twenty-five years ago I got a Master's Degree in English, which forced the issue for me in future years given my embeddedness in late capitalism and the fact that I'm not outstanding enough in the demanded way to earn the appropriate Ph.D. and then a tenure-track job.

Is there any place in your calculus for epigenetic capabilities? Human development, occupying our entire lives, is defined by interactions with the whole environment, rather than being a mere playback of instinctual "human nature" or "evolutionary imperatives" outdated or not. Interaction-with-environment, which produces "human nature," defines both social stability and human creativity in the same set of gestures, and it's this human creativity that will eventually allow us to mitigate climate change.

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

pfiore8's picture

at your last comment. because, if I reacted to it, honestly I'm not sure what it is you're saying or, ultimately then, what the differing of opinion is.

well... except... let me add this to the outdated imperatives: i think those we've allowed to be left in charge are the outdated models still driven by those outdated imperatives: they are a certain sub species of human

people like me or you have gone another way : easy access to food et al helped us evolve to pursue art, families, life outside of simply surviving. and largely ignoring some of the most vulnerable in our society along the way. that should have been the tell but it's hard to take threat seriously when everything seemed to be going so well. at least that was my trap.

but we dropped the ball, not being more engaged in "management" affairs because we had better things to do, like raise families, have friends for dinner, read, go on vacation, work. the upheaval recognizing the threat, not to a lifestyle (although it was a nice interlude), but to life itself.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Cassiodorus's picture

What I'm saying is that even though there's a "human nature," it doesn't determine anything. It's more complex than that.

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

Bluesee's picture

...and somewhat prophetic.

but I don't think that hope of the progressive, electoral variety will come to DailyKos.com until Markos adjusts his FAQ a bit. "More and better Democrats" and "no promotion of third party candidates" have shown to be a good way of promoting the concept of "my party right or wrong" rather than of progressive hope - See more at: http://www.caucus99percent.com/content/classic-diaries-lets-see-some-opt...

Although I felt it, I really didn't think it would descend as far as it did. Things seem ok when it's all going well, but bring in a little difference of opinion, and boy did it descend fast!

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Bernie is a win-win.

MarilynW's picture

they proved we have been around for a very very long time but it only took human beings 200 years to severely destroy the planet.

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To thine own self be true.

magiamma's picture

Greenland's ice sheet is losing 8000 tons of melt per second. 5000 tons in water. This per a paper published in the journal, Nature Climate Change this January 16. I've said this before but global warming is the number one issue.

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook

gulfgal98's picture

I have been hoping to see more essays on the environment, especially with a focus on climate change. It is by far, the biggest issue facing humankind. Keep up the good work.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

Damnit Janet's picture

when it comes to war criminals and wall street

but not when it comes to the very thing that we all depend on... the earth.

Fantastic diary Jamess! Thank you.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

ngant17's picture

in downtown area of miami, it reaffirmed what i knew was already happening. See recent oct 2015 article in miami new times -

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miamis-newest-sea-level-rise-signpost-...

miami beach ought to be one of the first to go, it gets water flooding and intrusion from every direction - gulf of mexico, everglades, lake okeechobee, kissimmee river, atlantic ocean/biscayne bay, rains/hurricanes, rising groundwater.

marco rubio's answer was always to do nothing and not even consider it a problem worth addressing.

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