Be Careful, Peeps. Be Very Careful
The Great Lady herself - that is, presidential candidate Hillary Clinton - deigned to address the subject of potential third party voting yesterday in an impromptu exchange with reporters on her campaign airplane.
As an article in the Wall St. Journal strongly implied, Secretary Clinton seems to think voting for a third-party candidate is an exceedingly bad idea.
CHICAGO — In response to polls showing significant support for third-party candidates this year, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton encouraged people to “carefully” consider their choice in this election.
“I think either Donald Trump or I will be the president of the United States. And so people have to look carefully in making their decision about to vote for because it will be either him or me. I’m going to do everything I can to make sure that it’s me,” Mrs. Clinton told reporters on her campaign plane at a stop in Chicago.
Her comments come as Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson and Green Party nominee Jill Stein have together drawn double-digit support in many polls for months — suggesting that the third-party vote could be a factor in the presidential campaign.
Interestingly enough, when I took the "Who Do You Most Agree With" quiz on isidewith.com, it turned out - according to their scoring system at least - that my views aligned with Jill Stein 100%, with Hillary Clinton 94%, with Gary Johnson 37%, and with Donald Trump only 9%.
Given this, and given that according to the polls Jill Stein's support is currently hovering around 3%, it would seem superficially logical to think that I should embrace Clinton as the next-best alternative who actually has a chance to win. But such specious reasoning ignores the following:
- I have deep and unbreachable differences with Clinton on a number of issues of great importance to me, which makes her a completely unsuitable candidate in my opinion.
- The complete fallacy of believing you can't accomplish anything worthwhile by supporting a candidate you know won't win.
- The fact that there are good and compelling reasons to believe that what Hillary Clinton says her policies will be on the campaign trail, and what her policies will actually be once in office, are two entirely different things.
- The fact that considering the question of who to support only from the standpoint of how a candidate's policy proposals align with your own completely ignores such factors as honesty, trustworthiness, competence, and general character.
- The fact that such boilerplate enumeration of issues as is contained in the isidewith quiz - however well intentioned - will undoubtedly underweight or even ignore issues that are of vital importance to me. In no way do I believe that there is anything remotely close to a 94% overlap between my personal ideology and that of Hillary Clinton.
For all these reasons, I plan to ignore Secretary Clinton's sage advice, and cast my vote for Jill Stein on November 8. High time, as Jill says, to vote for the Greater Good rather than the (alleged) Lesser Evil.
Comments
Yep I'm being careful and refusing her missive
neither is my choice.
I agree with you LaFeminista
I'm not much when it comes to writing, so here's a picture worth a thousand of my words.
I'm great at multi-tasking. I can waste time, be unproductive, and procrastinate all at the same time.
This is AWESOME!!!
I laughed out loud and am still laughing.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I'm glad I could brighten your day Gulfgal
I'm great at multi-tasking. I can waste time, be unproductive, and procrastinate all at the same time.
Yard sign
Absolutely love it
Makes me wish I had a yard
just so that I could put that yard sign in it.
Love is my religion.
Panic must be setting in. All I've heard on MSNBC for two days
is "protest vote." Apparently, Jeb! is going to cast a "protest vote."
What happens if, by election day, either Trump or Hillary is far behind. Will every vote cast for the person who is far behind be a protest vote? Or is casting a "protest vote" impossible if you vote Democratic or Republican, no matter how hopeless one of the candidacies is? Moving on....
I don't understand why my state gave me a right to cast a vote, but never gave me a right to cast a protest vote. I very much want to vote to protest the corrupt incompetent psychopaths the Democratic and Republican Parties have nominated. But damn, the only vote I have is a vote. I feel so deprived. I demand to know how and where all these people got their right to cast protest votes.
There is No good reason to believe anything Hillary says.
It's all self serving bullshit. Any resemblence to the truth is purely coincidental.
If she was truly concerned about having Trump as President she should have dropped out and endorsed Sanders, who was consistently polling better against Trump than she was.
She wants to be President. All other considerations are secondary to that obsession.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
Exactly. Thank you.
Top Comment!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Ummm!!..........
I love the smell of Clintonian hubris in the morning.
I have thought carefully Hillary, and no can do for you.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
The Vote Father
Hillary and Donald leave the house. We the People stop them.
We the People
Hiilary...Donald...we the voters say we'll come along later. You two to go on ahead...
Hillary
Hell, you can't do that. It screws up all my arrangements! It was MY Turn!
We the People
Well, that's what we say.
Donald
(as another third-party voter steps up) I can't go either.
Hillary
(as she sees another third-party voter step up)
It was only business. I always liked you. All of you! Even if you didn't have a lot of cash to give me.
We the People
We understand that. (frisking Hillary) Excuse us, Hil...
Hillary
Huh? (then) Don, can you get me off the hook? For Ol' Times' sake? Take the hit for me?
Donald
Can't do it, Hilly. They won't let me stay either.
We the People take them to the car.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
I can't repeat the following enough
And I have to credit Thomas Frank for the thought, I don't feel like tracking down the exact wording.
He says that voting is the only activity in the world in which the consumer (the voter) buys what they have been told other people want despite their own real personal preference.
Think about that. People are told not to vote for Jill Stein because other people want Hillary Clinton and they have to fall in line with other people's desires. And then people do exactly this!
Things must be pretty bad in real polling and internal polling for them to be this desperate.
Buy what you want people! It may turn out that a lot of other people want exactly the same thing.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Rs and Ds Should Just Be Honest and Ban 3rd Parties.
They certainly have the votes for that.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Maybe firing off replies to pathetic Dem emails begging for $
is starting to sink in, as one of many ways these Neoliberal monsters are starting to get more than a hint that many folks, who in the past had been loyal Democrats, are not buying the bullshit anymore.
Even Her Heinous must be somewhat privy to how much people deeply despise her and will not be blugeoned with fear as a motivating factor to accept her as the LOTE.
I can hardly keep up with the laughable flow of doomsday emails.
But I relish the times when I'm able to fire off a scathing rebuke of everything they are. Something tells me they're getting my responses, as evidence of just one small part of a very vocal electorate that doesn't mind being on record as deeply opposed to their corrupt, arrogant, criminal racket and very pissed off about the 99% being completely and systematically abandoned by the former Party of the People.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
I've done that, too
Those damn give us $3 dollars so we can help so and so get elected.
I usually fire off, "give you $3? You already stole my vote."
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
I unsucscribed to many Democratic communications
If there was a question as to why, I told them: You don't represent me, and have done everything possible to ensure I am not represented. I am done with you.
From then on, they were treated like junk mail.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
How on earth did you get 97% for Hillary
My results were:
97% Stein
74% Clinton
23% Johnson
14% Trump
Getting as much as 74% Clinton was enough to make me nauseous.
These resulting numbers should scare the hell out of Clinton.
The people, united, will never be defeated.
It was actually 94%...
but yeah, that was a surprise. And not a pleasant one. Maybe I'm some kind of sub-conscious neoliberal, and need to send my brain somewhere to have it reconditioned. If it works, I'll recommend the same thing to Hillary. Meantime, I think I will re-take the test, I think I might have rushed through it a bit hastily the first time.
inactive account
Well it depends on WHICH Hillary at the moment of the test :) nt
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Those tests often tend to use
Those tests often tend to use things the candidate has claimed when before the right audience for it... and is it impossible that that test may have been rigged - even if not deliberately but through having been fed corporate media misinformation - for Hillary in the particular data entered so as to make her appear appealing to people who actually believe in democracy and sanity? ('Well, she's a Dem so this quote fits her best as expressing Dem Party values' sort of thing.)
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I find it bogus
and here's why. They're using what the candidates have said not what they've done. Now in Stein's and Trumps's cases there's not much to go on other than their words, although Jill has proven to walk the talk with her years of activism. Johnson has a record and I truly believe he believes what he is saying. IMO he's not pandering.
Now clinton is a case. She has an extensive record. I'm confident that they're using her words on the stump rather than looking at her record to make their basis of her. I took it and it wasn't hard to pick the most progressive answers which I did as a test. Jill 98% Clinton 94%. There is no way in hell clinton's deeds would give her a 94% if you pick the very most progressive answers. As a side note, I noticed when they give you the results it says "you agree with Jill on 98% of social issues, something, something, and science. With Clinton it says "you agree with clinton on 94% of --- and they leave off science.
One of the most important issuesTHE most important issue, as in climate change, doesn't make the cut. I'd be curious to see where her and I stand on that % wise....Okay, retook the quiz...
Gave the same answers, but changed the weighting for importance on some of them. Results were:
100% Stein
86% Clinton
36% Johnson
11% Trump
If I believed I could trust a single thing coming out of Hillary's mouth that might make more of an impression on me.
inactive account
I got 99% with Jill Stein
Surprisingly it was 91% with Hillary, and only 34% with Johnson
Took the quiz
Stein 97%
Clinton 71%
Johnson 43%
Trump 27%
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Not a choice - it's an ultimatum.
I hope the Rodhams complete the tantrum by holding their breath.
Shit vs Shit is still Shit.
I can't believe the American Public thinks this is an actual election.
Vote for who yo want? Ha! I'm in the reality of voter registration fraud. And there's a ton more like me.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
I'm going to steal that
"Shit vs Shit is still Shit.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
I think the survey has a problem
for hill it gave me 92% but that can't be accurate unless the algorithm accounted for all of her changes on policy.
They rigged the polls why not this, as trump has actually been to the left of her on many issues, at least publicly.
Tin foil hat where is it. This whole election has gotten me
#Jillnothill BTW 99% for Jill
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
The biggest problem is the enormous gulf between what
HRC claims is her philosophy, versus the reality of her philosophy.
I mean, really. The survey suggests that I agree more strongly with Hillary Clinton than with Jill Stein on the Economy. Really? Is HRC going to rein in Wall Street? Is HRC going to tax the hell out of the rich? The survey indicates that I trend moderately towards protectionism ... actually I trend strongly towards protectionism, but I didn't see a single question that would have reflected my opposition to all of the free trade agreements and legislation that HRC has supported her entire life, representing one of the deepest divisions I have with her. To my astonishment, the survey indicates that I generally agree with HRC on foreign policy!!!! Really? I opposed our poorly-conceived intervention in Libya. I oppose treating Iran as if we are already at war with them. I oppose our bizarre interventions in Ukraine and thereabouts. In fact, I don't think I agree with HRC on any significant foreign policy position.
Etc.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Your assessmentoh her heinous is spot on
and the more I thought about that survey and how close the scores were between Jill and hill it just didn't compute, and then there is Brock lurking somewhere out in the netlands, the dots then seem to connect and told me this doesn't pass the smell test.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
you can actually follow the various links and see
exactly how the system arrived at its conclusions. it's kinda funny. i "agree" with hillary, because i think marijuana should be legalized and hillary thinks marijuana should be legalized ... for medical use only.
uh. yeah.
similarly, i went down into the more extensive "other answers" menu for the ACA question, and selected, "yes, i support the ACA, but single-payer would be better". and hillary supports the ACA. so, y'know, we're right there on the same page.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
They're getting desparate, that's good
it's gotta mean Jill is doing way better than what the MSM is dishing out every day.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Hunter S. Thompson on "lesser evilism"
That’s the real issue this time,” he said. “Beating Nixon. It’s hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years.”
The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but “regrettably necessary” holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 – and as far as I can tell, we’ve gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.
—Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail ’72
Repeat as necessary n/t
Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.
And it's very necessary to
And it's very necessary to see that repeated very often until we break the chains.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Posted this quote on FB yesterday.
Boy howdy, did that kick up a shitstorm! LOL. I am starting to enjoy the daily hissy fits HRC supporters seem compelled to take. I offered no commentary to the quote, just posted it as-is, and they infested my feed with the usual memes. Hilarious to watch.
Desperation indeed.
Jill is drawing 3%.
About right for the Greens. Johnson is just pulling a Lieberman, apparently, and somehow pulling 7%. Combined they'll pull 10% or so, which is a Joe Biden BFD. HRC might win with less than 50% just like hubby.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I can't count how many times
I was given a link to this quiz from well meaning to badgering Hillary supporters. I never took it. I looked at it. But I never answered the question. Why? Because the entire quiz is theoretical and falsely attributes progressive issues to Hillary that would in turn NOT benefit her wealthy and powerful donors. And anyone who believes that she will not do everything she can to satisfy her donors interest is being willfully obtuse.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Just as anyone ...
Who thinks that she's not a warmonger hasn't been paying attention to what She has been saying and doing, lo these many years.
Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.
She was talking to reporters?
Are we sure those were real, live reporters who, like, you know, work for real news organizations?
She, or someone, must be getting scared. Hit that panic button!
" I can't believe the American Public thinks this is an actual election." I might steal that line.
Note the tasteful conservative tweed jacket. I think maybe someone is running scared. The updated leisure suits in colors not seen in nature come out when she is riding high and feeling mean.
Mary Bennett
Reporters on her campaign
Reporters on her campaign plane to (never mind with) whom she apparently rarely speaks were provided with a 'spontaneous' ?was it termed a 'press conference? She apparently got positive test results from polls of a good something to say and handed it to her personal press to be disseminated...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
"I’m going to do everything I can"
And there you have it. Proof positive that Hillary Clinton is capable of telling the truth.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
She would walk that one back as a mis-speak.
She will not do everything, but Everything. War on Tuesday.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I'm with her.
Jill Stein, that is. I'm a 79% Democrat who sides with Stein on most issues. But I've got a bit of libertarianism in me (drugs should be legal, for instance) and a bit of support for a few things Trump advocates.
Jill Stein - 75%
Hillary Clinton - 50%
Gary Johnson - 43%
Donald Trump - 35%
Stein 98%
Stein 98%
Hillary 87%
Gary J. 43%
Trump 18%
My situation in Indiana is Green is not on the ballot. My plan is if it's a close race , I will vote Hillary. If Hillary can't beat Trump I will write in Stein. At this point it is not close and I would write in Jill. I will vote Gregg for Governor. I have yet to decide about Bayh for senate.
Jeez, there should be a law that if a candidate gets on the ballot in 50% of the states, they automatically qualify in all states.
Hillary has lost my vote,
Hillary has lost my vote, stealing the primary from Bernie Sanders or whatever rigging was pulled has made me Demexit and go Green. Go Jill GO!
So long, and thanks for all the fish
Mine also.
Had she let Bernie and the supporters have their moment at the convention, maybe I would have considered voting for her. But, first she stole the primary and then she just couldn't resist rubbing it in. I shudder to think what her foreign policy will be like.
For me, it is a matter of urgent national importance that Clinton NOT win the presidency with anything that can in any universe be labeled a mandate and that she NOT have a compliant congress. I want President (is that his title?) Putin to be able to say to her that more than half of American citizens can't stand her and that she is about one misstep or Wikileaks revelation away from impeachment proceedings.
Mary Bennett
Haven't even considered taking the poll...
I mean, isn't it just barely possible that this is another propaganda trick, to make Stein voters think they might have something in common with Hillary after all, and did we mention ("designated villain" spoiler alert!) SCARY TRUMP? -So really, maybe you shouldn't vote for Stein since Hillary is 90-odd percent of voting for her, anyway, and SCARY TRUMP, after all...
I think I'll skip this poll, the same as I skip every other "push poll".
-Since I don't think there's a question about whether I think the Clintons have proveably, statistically, done more harm than all terrorists put together, world-wide. Also no question about whether I think that Donald is a spoiled rich brat who has only been spared prison by Daddy's money. I also don't want to bother with anything that would tell me I have anything in common with the American "Libertarians". Like at all. They are economically so far to the Right that they make the Nazis look like the Young Communists' Garden Club. Seriously, NO taxes? Then get off the fucking roads, please, Mr. Johnson!
I can't believe I'm finally living in a twisted version of that old Firesign Theatre bit, only for real. Vote for Stein -- She's NOT INSANE!
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes